Steam legality or otherwise.

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

Knew this would happen eventually.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105

Notably:

" The return of software has traditionally been a bugbear for gamers. Most
shops, at least in the UK, have a policy not to allow the return of opened
software because of piracy risks. However, most consumers are not aware
that, in some cases at least, this is in breach of their statutory legal
rights, which cannot be infringed. "

Also:

"But, arguably, you can't transfer the CD Key without paying the $10 Steam
charge, because otherwise it's still registered to you at Valve, meaning you
haven't truly transferred ownership to the buyer.
However, here's something else. No mention of the Steam software is made in
the EULA for Half-Life 2. This means that the terms of the Steam EULA that
you agree to when installing that software are almost certainly not
incorporated into the contract you agree to when installing Half-Life 2.
Consequently, the $10 transfer fee would not be enforceable because it isn't
in the HL2 contract, and Valve would be acting illegally in blocking any
sale of the game from one person to another. "

Someone should set up an exchange where HL2 keys can be bought and sold and
wait to see what Valve do.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:54:54 -0000, "One Punch Mickey"
<fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Knew this would happen eventually.
>
>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105
>
>Notably:
>
>" The return of software has traditionally been a bugbear for gamers. Most
>shops, at least in the UK, have a policy not to allow the return of opened
>software because of piracy risks. However, most consumers are not aware
>that, in some cases at least, this is in breach of their statutory legal
>rights, which cannot be infringed. "
>
>Also:
>
>"But, arguably, you can't transfer the CD Key without paying the $10 Steam
>charge, because otherwise it's still registered to you at Valve, meaning you
>haven't truly transferred ownership to the buyer.
>However, here's something else. No mention of the Steam software is made in
>the EULA for Half-Life 2. This means that the terms of the Steam EULA that
>you agree to when installing that software are almost certainly not
>incorporated into the contract you agree to when installing Half-Life 2.
>Consequently, the $10 transfer fee would not be enforceable because it isn't
>in the HL2 contract, and Valve would be acting illegally in blocking any
>sale of the game from one person to another. "
>
>Someone should set up an exchange where HL2 keys can be bought and sold and
>wait to see what Valve do.

STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"koorb" <koorb@raidrs.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vk9f01tgretbm9v5o65484hfradlvhh9j6@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:54:54 -0000, "One Punch Mickey"
> <fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Knew this would happen eventually.
>>
>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105
>>
>>Notably:
>>
>>" The return of software has traditionally been a bugbear for gamers. Most
>>shops, at least in the UK, have a policy not to allow the return of opened
>>software because of piracy risks. However, most consumers are not aware
>>that, in some cases at least, this is in breach of their statutory legal
>>rights, which cannot be infringed. "
>>
>>Also:
>>
>>"But, arguably, you can't transfer the CD Key without paying the $10 Steam
>>charge, because otherwise it's still registered to you at Valve, meaning
>>you
>>haven't truly transferred ownership to the buyer.
>>However, here's something else. No mention of the Steam software is made
>>in
>>the EULA for Half-Life 2. This means that the terms of the Steam EULA that
>>you agree to when installing that software are almost certainly not
>>incorporated into the contract you agree to when installing Half-Life 2.
>>Consequently, the $10 transfer fee would not be enforceable because it
>>isn't
>>in the HL2 contract, and Valve would be acting illegally in blocking any
>>sale of the game from one person to another. "
>>
>>Someone should set up an exchange where HL2 keys can be bought and sold
>>and
>>wait to see what Valve do.
>
> STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
> copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.

You can lend out the game. They simply put in your Steam username and
password when they install it.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:37:00 +0000, koorb <koorb@raidrs.co.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:54:54 -0000, "One Punch Mickey"
><fantantiddlyspan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Knew this would happen eventually.
>>
>>http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=21105
>>
>>Notably:
>>
>>" The return of software has traditionally been a bugbear for gamers. Most
>>shops, at least in the UK, have a policy not to allow the return of opened
>>software because of piracy risks. However, most consumers are not aware
>>that, in some cases at least, this is in breach of their statutory legal
>>rights, which cannot be infringed. "
>>
>>Also:
>>
>>"But, arguably, you can't transfer the CD Key without paying the $10 Steam
>>charge, because otherwise it's still registered to you at Valve, meaning you
>>haven't truly transferred ownership to the buyer.
>>However, here's something else. No mention of the Steam software is made in
>>the EULA for Half-Life 2. This means that the terms of the Steam EULA that
>>you agree to when installing that software are almost certainly not
>>incorporated into the contract you agree to when installing Half-Life 2.
>>Consequently, the $10 transfer fee would not be enforceable because it isn't
>>in the HL2 contract, and Valve would be acting illegally in blocking any
>>sale of the game from one person to another. "
>>
>>Someone should set up an exchange where HL2 keys can be bought and sold and
>>wait to see what Valve do.
>
>STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
>copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.


Are you surprised ?

It is about a year since I detailed in this newsgroup some of
the potential user-limitations of the Steam authentication mechanism,
including those with regard to local LAN matches....

At that time, the skimpy one-page FAQ on www.steampowered.com
<very conveniently>omitted most of the important negative details,
including the specifics of mandatory on-line authentication of the
Single-player game.

John Lewis
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"> You can lend out the game. They simply put in your Steam username and
> password when they install it.

GOSH! It is so simple!

"Pleased to meet you. Hoped you guessed my name."
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

koorb wrote:
>
> STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
> copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.

Erm, you can "lend" (haha) your copy : just give them your Steam account
ID. Easy. You dont even need to given them your (even more haha) "copy"
of the Cd if they have broadband.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 19:41:49 GMT, john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis)
wrote:

>It is about a year since I detailed in this newsgroup some of
>the potential user-limitations of the Steam authentication mechanism,
>including those with regard to local LAN matches....
>
>At that time, the skimpy one-page FAQ on www.steampowered.com
><very conveniently>omitted most of the important negative details,
>including the specifics of mandatory on-line authentication of the
>Single-player game.

Actually, the FAQ had a part where that was suggested (ie. you need to
authenticate the single-player game online), BUT the pro-Steam people
claimed it is just a typo or a misunderstanding, and there is no way
in hell HL2 CD/DVD retail version would require one to authenticate
the game in order to play the single-player part, and that even
suggesting this would be the case is mere fear-mongering. "Valve is
not that stupid you know, they wouldn't piss on their customers like
that! Get a grip!". LOL!

But since they proved to be wrong, the pro-Steam people changed their
collective minds swiftly and silently. ;-)
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:02:49 -0500, "KCB"
<kcbairdREMOVE@THIScomcast.net> wrote:

>> STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
>> copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.
>
>You can lend out the game. They simply put in your Steam username and
>password when they install it.

How can you play your other Steam games on that same account, then?
What if you still rather kept your Steam _account_ to yourself?

Don't try to defend a glaring flaw in the Steam design.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005, koorb wrote:

> STEAM is a mess.

yes it is! its the biggest mess pc games ever had!

> I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my

although i sympathize with you for your views on steam i really can't
forgive you for this
lending is forbidden in pc games!
let me repeat cause this is important... LENDING IS FORBIDDEN!
do you know 90% of the publishers lost revenues comes from this!!!!
don't lend your pc games to anyone! not even to your own friends!!!
if they want to try the game, let them play it in your computer
if they want to try the game in their own machine tell them to
get the demo!
if they want to play the full version TELL THEM TO BUY THE GAME!!!!
please don't lend! please!
don't you see piracy will only damage us! us the gamers!
if you like games like i do and everyone else in this group please
protect it! please!
don't pirate games!
if a friends played a game that you own in your own computer and
wants to play it in his, help him buy it! pc games have lots of
bargains available and there is 2nd hand market
but please don't lend games... it damage pc games and you don't
want to damage pc games right?

> copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.

the copy you own is only yours! its your personal copy! you can't
play a lan match simultaneously in two computers right? you must
invite friends to play, so those friend must also own their own
copies!

please defend pc games!
we must defend what we love the most!
say NO to piracy!

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005, "One Punch Mickey" wrote:

don't try and fix something which is wrong from top to bottom
steam is so wrong in so many areas its a waste of time and effort trying
to make it right... you simply can't make steam right!
the only way is to "kill" it

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

against steam campaign
http://nosteam.afterdarknet.at/

steamwatch - independent observatory about steam
http://www.steamwatch.org/

please sign petition "Say NO! to Steam!" available at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/nosteam/petition.html
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"KCB" <kcbairdREMOVE@THIScomcast.net> wrote in message
news:jM-dne95RIYJbprfRVn-tQ@comcast.com...

> > STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
> > copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.
> You can lend out the game. They simply put in your Steam username and
> password when they install it.

Or use the Steam emulator and not have to deal with it at all, assuming
single player play. LAN play will still be an issue however.

Consumer protection is pretty bad in the US if *Europe* is taking the lead
here.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 07:27:02 GMT, riku <riku@invalid.none.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:02:49 -0500, "KCB"
><kcbairdREMOVE@THIScomcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> STEAM is a mess. I am still pissed off that I can't lend people my
>>> copy of HL2 or play a convenient LAN match anymore.
>>
>>You can lend out the game. They simply put in your Steam username and
>>password when they install it.
>
>How can you play your other Steam games on that same account, then?
>What if you still rather kept your Steam _account_ to yourself?
>
>Don't try to defend a glaring flaw in the Steam design.
>

Flaw... distinctly not.... Quite deliberately though-out limitation
to support the EULA...yes !!

For HL2/CS:Source to be "lent" or "transacted" ( illegal, according to
Valve...) separately from previous Steam-game installations, you MUST
open a SEPARATE NEW STEAM ACCOUNT when you FIRST INSTALL/
AUTHENTICATE THE GAME... and you must transfer the user-name of
the account and password to the 3rd-party when you 'transact' the
game.... all illegal ( according to Valve's EULA) of course. The
user-name cannot be changed. This will also apply for any future
non-free$$ single-player products from Valve either via Steam or
retail...unless Valve has a total change of heart (ha, ha, ha...)
about authentication/copy-protection of single-player games. Valve is
the first developer to extend the combination of locked-down
user-names together with on-line authentication from PC MMORGs to
Single-player games. The notion of requiring an umbilical cord to the
developer before installing and running a Single-player PC game is
reprehensible and treats the PC customer as a third-class citizen. For
a single-player game on the consoles all you have to do is insert the
DVD and go. You want to give, trade, sell the console-game to a
friend... just go ahead, no problem.... Not so with Valve's
single-player PC products. Just say NO to VALVE products in the
future (or present).

In the case of Valve-produced user-information.... .CAVEAT EMPTOR.
The real answers to any obvious user-questions conveniently
unanswered by the Valve FAQs are highly unlikely to positively benefit
the purchaser.

John Lewis
 
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