Stereo Shoot-Out: Nvidia's New 3D Vision 2 Vs. AMD's HD3D

[bystander]

[citation][nom]palladin9479[/nom]Their not strobing but there is a noticeable increase / decrease in luminosity between periods.And ultimately it doesn't matter, the 60hz isn't what's stressing your eyes. Movies are done at slightly less then 30hz and most monitors today run at 75hz. Its the artificial while light that is hurting your eyeballs, not the number of times it's oscillating every second.[/citation]

Most monitors are at 60hz, but all LCD/LED monitors are solid state. They don't go black between flashes like the old CRT's did, which caused a lot of headaches and eye strain for those with 60hz CRT's.

Movies have much lower hz, but they are projected on a silver screen which kind of glows, so it doesn't really go black. It's the blackening that stresses the eyes, just like the old 60hz CRT's.

 

[palladin9479]

Most monitors are at 60hz, but all LCD/LED monitors are solid state. They don't go black between flashes like the old CRT's did, which caused a lot of headaches and eye strain for those with 60hz CRT's.

Movies have much lower hz, but they are projected on a silver screen which kind of glows, so it doesn't really go black. It's the blackening that stresses the eyes, just like the old 60hz CRT's.

What your talking about is known as strobe effect, that's completely different then refresh rate. Strobe effects can cause eyestrain at 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100,120 hz depending on the brightness. Last time I saw as "60hz" CRT was back in 94/95, after that every last one of them has been capable of 70/75hz some even 83i, although interlaced sucks in general. This dismisses the "most CRT's" crap.

And again, its not the black its the sudden contrast, going from pure white to pure black is bad. Turn down the brightness and the eyestrain goes away, and in actuality every monitor comes from factory with it's brightness / contrast set too high. They put it there to give you the vibrant display and "wow" effect, but it'll cause eyestrain if you leave it on. You should turn down the brightness / contrast until the screen is much softer looking then that whole eyestrain thing goes away. I work around screens all day every day, it's inherent in my job that I look at screens 6~8hrs per work day, then again at home for my hobbies. My suggestion to anyone experiencing eyestrain from looking is to turn down your damn brightness, should reduce it greatly.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]palladin9479[/nom]What your talking about is known as strobe effect, that's completely different then refresh rate. Strobe effects can cause eyestrain at 10,20,30,40,50,60,70,80,90,100,120 hz depending on the brightness. Last time I saw as "60hz" CRT was back in 94/95, after that every last one of them has been capable of 70/75hz some even 83i, although interlaced sucks in general. This dismisses the "most CRT's" crap.And again, its not the black its the sudden contrast, going from pure white to pure black is bad. Turn down the brightness and the eyestrain goes away, and in actuality every monitor comes from factory with it's brightness / contrast set too high. They put it there to give you the vibrant display and "wow" effect, but it'll cause eyestrain if you leave it on. You should turn down the brightness / contrast until the screen is much softer looking then that whole eyestrain thing goes away. I work around screens all day every day, it's inherent in my job that I look at screens 6~8hrs per work day, then again at home for my hobbies. My suggestion to anyone experiencing eyestrain from looking is to turn down your damn brightness, should reduce it greatly.[/citation]

I said "those old 60hz CRT's", I did not say "most CRT's" ever. Although many people had 60hz CRT's up to the mid 2000's. Even when people had CRT's capable of 75hz or more, many people did not know how to set the refresh rate, and others chose to use resolutions that could not maintain the more than 60hz (if CRT's could go up to 85hz up to a specific resolution, to go to a higher resolution, you'd have to compromise and lower the refresh). Anyways, I know people today that still use 60hz CRT's and complain about their eyes.

That said, how is the "strobing" you are talking about any different than the effect I described? I didn't label it strobing, but it's the same thing we are describing. When the shutter glasses black out one eye to show the other eye the image, it creates the same contrasting effect, which is the part that can strain the eyes.

Edit: I do think we mostly agree on what causes the eye strain. Although I do believe with 3D shutter glasses there are other factors that also cause eye strain. The strobing or high contrast of the shutter glasses is one, but simulator sickness is another (I suffer from this without glasses if FPS drops, and 3D causes people to get lower FPS).

 

[palladin9479]

I said "those old 60hz CRT's", I did not say "most CRT's" ever. Although many people had 60hz CRT's up to the mid 2000's. Even when people had CRT's capable of 75hz or more, many people did not know how to set the refresh rate, and others chose to use resolutions that could not maintain the more than 60hz (if CRT's could go up to 85hz up to a specific resolution, to go to a higher resolution, you'd have to compromise and lower the refresh). Anyways, I know people today that still use 60hz CRT's and complain about their eyes.

That said, how is the "strobing" you are talking about any different than the effect I described? I didn't label it strobing, but it's the same thing we are describing. When the shutter glasses black out one eye to show the other eye the image, it creates the same contrasting effect, which is the part that can strain the eyes.

Edit: I do think we mostly agree on what causes the eye strain. Although I do believe with 3D shutter glasses there are other factors that also cause eye strain. The strobing or high contrast of the shutter glasses is one, but simulator sickness is another (I suffer from this without glasses if FPS drops, and 3D causes people to get lower FPS).

Because with the shutter glass's the blacking is done really close to your eyeball. And at no time are both eyeballs blacked out together. It's really important to keep the eyeballs seeing different things.

You have to realize that the effect is mostly in your brain's visual processing center, not your actual retina's. If you want to see the effect full time get yourself a strobe light, set it to 15hz in a dark room. Look into it with the lights off, then again with the lights on. Notice how uncomfortable it is with the lights off vs the lights on. Turn the strobe effect up to 30 then 60hz (if it goes that high), the uncomfortable feeling will increase. Strobe effects get worse the higher you go not better. Eventually you'll get high enough to where your not consciously able to discern light patterns between strobes, but the eyestrain will remain.

In all case's the effect can be mitigated / removed by using softer more natural lighting which is what I do on my Acer 120hz monitor. Toms actually did a good article while back on calibrating your monitor and how to make it easier to deal with.

 

[bystander]

I personally have no issues with my Acer 120hz monitor. I did some calibrating that I read from another site and it looks great. However, there is definitely some truth to the flickering of the glasses. Here is how I came to that conclusion:

I tested my monitor at a few different refresh rates. At 120hz I don't notice much eye strain at all, and as I get used to it, almost none. However, when I tried setting my 3D vision settings to 110hz and 100hz, I could see a vary noticeable flickering that was quite uncomfortable. At 110hz is was still not bad, but 100hz was quite bad to me.

Clearly the speed of the flickering does effect comfort value.

 

[andywork78]

Thank you for the great review.
Hmm.. GTX 570 price and perfom good.
I will going to get it this month sale~ in Newegg.com

 

[grinderifz]

So your telling me there is no micro stutter using 2x 580's in SLI using 3D?

 

[Guest]

i have been using 3d vision for a year now, and i checkup my eyes every few months since then cause i was skeptical. luckily i had a friend thats a optometrist so she tested me over the year, and so far my eyes got good CONSISTENT scores. so after a year and no change, i can vouch for it.

now i just need 3d vision 2, the brightness increase might be handy, and ive always wanted a second pair ^^.

it is like airborne said it only affects you first week. after that you easily get 60-80 and soon 90 - 100.
but its something your brain just needs to register as normal and not as "OMG MY EYES".

but if you are someone that gets migraines frequently i recommend you stay away, 2 of my friends get a migraine within 5 min of playing under 40%, but they always get migraines after 2 hours in front of pc. But you would know if you are someone that gets migraines from sitting in front of a pc for a short time.

 

[tamalero]

Question.. will there be an updated version of this study of 3d and monitors for this 2012?

 

[cleeve]

[citation][nom]tamalero[/nom]Question.. will there be an updated version of this study of 3d and monitors for this 2012?[/citation]

Probably not, there hasn't been much change in the monitor market. Having said that, we have a passive FPR 3D monitor review coming up in the very near future where we compare passive with active display tech.

 

[tamalero]

[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]Probably not, there hasn't been much change in the monitor market. Having said that, we have a passive FPR 3D monitor review coming up in the very near future where we compare passive with active display tech.[/citation]
totally waiting for it, as I am reviewing what tech to get.. I am a dual screen user who uses AMD 5870 and now Sapphire HD 7950 950Mhz edition

 

[Guest]

PLEASE READ THIS:

I am the ‘proud’ owner of Nvidia 3D, in surround, across three monitors. I absolutely love playing TF2 in 3D, I play a lot, often for two or more hours a day. This has been continuous for many months now.

Recently, I noticed some strange changes to my vision. Wherever I look, I can see a pattern of horizontal lines over everything. It persists the whole time and is more noticeable in dim light conditions.

I am not saying that this is any kind of ‘proof’ of a health risk – but please be careful and keep a look out for anything like this. I also understand how the 3D works and I know it doesn’t correlate to the appearance of lines across the vision. Other than the 3D gaming, I cannot explain it.

I’m going to go back to 2D (very, very disappointing, as anyone who uses it regularly will know, it’s so much better gaming in 3D) – at least for a while and see if the lines disappear.

Thank you for reading, and peace be with you.