Question Sub-woofer to compliment display speakers?

[Shahmatt]

I recently upgraded to an ultrawide display which has inbuilt speakers (lg 29wn600-w).

Though it was my intention to get some proper speakers I've been holding off on account of a crowded desk.

To my surprise though these inbuilt speakers don't sound half bad, especially when the extra signal processing (Maxxaudio) is disabled.

The sound is clean, undistorted, and there is more than enough volume for me to bop my head to.

But the speakers are unable to reproduce anything lower than, I'm guessing, around 150Hz - the double bass in Mark Knopfler's Cannibals is completely absent (see here @ 24 seconds

View: https://youtu.be/UD4LWIy675Y?t=24
).

So this made me wonder, since sub woofers typically produce between 20 and 150Hz, could I compliment these speakers with something under-desk that could fill in the gap? This would help me save a lot of valuable desk space.

I have no experience with anything other than ordinary PC speakers. So if my question is ridiculous do feel free to let me know. Thanks in advance.

 

[lvt]

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[hang-the-9]

I recently upgraded to an ultrawide display which has inbuilt speakers (lg 29wn600-w).

Though it was my intention to get some proper speakers I've been holding off on account of a crowded desk.

To my surprise though these inbuilt speakers don't sound half bad, especially when the extra signal processing (Maxxaudio) is disabled.

The sound is clean, undistorted, and there is more than enough volume for me to bop my head to.

But the speakers are unable to reproduce anything lower than, I'm guessing, around 150Hz - the double bass in Mark Knopfler's Cannibals is completely absent (see here @ 24 seconds

View: https://youtu.be/UD4LWIy675Y?t=24
).

So this made me wonder, since sub woofers typically produce between 20 and 150Hz, could I compliment these speakers with something under-desk that could fill in the gap? This would help me save a lot of valuable desk space.

I have no experience with anything other than ordinary PC speakers. So if my question is ridiculous do feel free to let me know. Thanks in advance.

No using a sub with the built in speakers is not a good idea, there are some pretty small 2.1 sattelite speakers and you can also mount something larger like a Klipsh pro media set on stands or on the wall.

Some you may need to find used.
Boston Acoustics BA635
Logitech Z340
Edifier M1380

 

[Shahmatt]

No using a sub with the built in speakers is not a good idea, there are some pretty small 2.1 sattelite speakers and you can also mount something larger like a Klipsh pro media set on stands or on the wall.

Some you may need to find used.
Boston Acoustics BA635
Logitech Z340
Edifier M1380

The Logitech Z407 is easily available to me for a lot less than a sub.

But why do you think a dedicated sub is not a good idea. Is it because the existing display speakers would be inadequate?

Just to give an idea of the frequency range of the display speakers. When I play this Youtube video I can hear frequencies from 120 Hz and above.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URrEtyFSENc

 

[madmatt30]

The Logitech Z407 is easily available to me for a lot less than a sub.

But why do think a dedicated sub is not a good idea. Is it because the existing display speakers would be inadequate?

Just to give an idea of the frequency range of the display speakers. When I play this Youtube video I can hear frequencies from 120 Hz and above.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URrEtyFSENc

A sub could in theory work quite well to compliment the inbuilt monitor speakers.

The issue here is that connection wise its just an absolute pita to manage.

Assuming you're monitor is running audio via digital hdmi you would need a sub connected to the sub out on the motherboard analog outputs.

Simultaneous analog/digital audio output in Windows 10 isn't supported natively, there are workaround that can be complicated and unreliable.

You then have an issue balancing the audio both volume and frequency wise.

A dedicated sub and speaker set is going to be less hassle, and at the end of the day will give a way way more balanced and easily manageable audio output.

 

[Shahmatt]

A sub could in theory work quite well to compliment the inbuilt monitor speakers.

The issue here is that connection wise its just an absolute pita to manage.

Assuming you're monitor is running audio via digital hdmi you would need a sub connected to the sub out on the motherboard analog outputs.

Simultaneous analog/digital audio output in Windows 10 isn't supported natively, there are workaround that can be complicated and unreliable.

You then have an issue balancing the audio both volume and frequency wise.

A dedicated sub and speaker set is going to be less hassle, and at the end of the day will give a way way more balanced and easily manageable audio output.

The display runs off the display port and I don't have a sub out from the motherboard actually MSI B350i pro AC.

Thanks for your take. It does not make much sense if two volumes need to be adjusted each time. Nor does there seem to be an easy way to get sub frequencies only from the PC, as opposed to the regular full-range of audio signals.

The Z407 it is then.

 

[madmatt30]

The display runs off the display port and I don't have a sub out from the motherboard actually MSI B350i pro AC.

Thanks for your take. It does not make much sense if two volumes need to be adjusted each time. Nor does there seem to be an easy way to get sub frequencies only from the PC, as opposed to the regular full-range of audio signals.

The Z407 it is then.

You actually do have a line level sub out on the board.

The other issues regarding volume/balance and simultaneous output of audio remain exactly the same though.

 

[Shahmatt]

You actually do have a line level sub out on the board.

The other issues regarding volume/balance and simultaneous output of audio remain exactly the same though.

I looked at the board info and manual but could not seem to find the sub out you are referring to. Could you help point it out to me?

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/B350I-PRO-AC/Overview

If I were to purchase a Wharfedale WH-S8E or Edifier T5 which have a low pass filter and cross over setting, would I in theory be able to knock off those high frequency sounds which can muddy the output?

 

[jay32267]

You have a line level out on the display.
You could send this to a sub.

 

[Shahmatt]

You have a line level out on the display.
You could send this to a sub.

I don't need to. I could use the line-out on the motherboard itself. It has nothing plugged in to it.

The display speakers receive their signal through the Displayport output.

 

[geofelt]

If you have a discrete sound setup, your motherboard is capable of outputting up to 7.1.
Yes, even with just the 3 outputs.
There are a number of 2.1 (left/right/sub) speaker setups which should not be expensive.
In the right room, look at 5.1

The display sound is useful as a backup.

 

[jay32267]

I don't need to. I could use the line-out on the motherboard itself. It has nothing plugged in to it.

The display speakers receive their signal through the Displayport output.

Then you have 2 options.
I use the line level from the display as I also use the display for other things besides the PC.

 

[Shahmatt]

If you have a discrete sound setup, your motherboard is capable of outputting up to 7.1.
Yes, even with just the 3 outputs.
There are a number of 2.1 (left/right/sub) speaker setups which should not be expensive.
In the right room, look at 5.1

The display sound is useful as a backup.

Yes, as of now the idea is to purchase a 2.1 Logitech Z407.

However as an alternative I wondered if just a sub would be enough to give me better rounded sound, even if it be worse than the Z407. My desktop is quite tight on space and any inches saved here would be good. But below the table is a nice block of space for a sub.

A potential negative could be another volume control to worry about.

Then you have 2 options.
I use the line level from the display as I also use the display for other things besides the PC.

Using this input would mean you are supplying your sub with the full range of audio signals. Does your sub try to produce the higher frequencies as well or do you remove these using a low pass filter or some other means? My understanding is that a sub supplied with the full range would not sound good.

 

[geofelt]

So far as I can tell, in windows you can define only one source of sound.
Either monitor or motherboard.
The Z470 side speakers look to me as being quite small.
Looking around, check out the creative pebble plus 2.1 system.
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-USB...d/dp/B07NWLWM9B?tag=beebom-20&geniuslink=true
I have only the pebble speakers on a system and the sound is quite good to my ears.
The addition of a sub should do what you want.

 

[jay32267]

Yes, as of now the idea is to purchase a 2.1 Logitech Z407.

However as an alternative I wondered if just a sub would be enough to give me better rounded sound, even if it be worse than the Z407. My desktop is quite tight on space and any inches saved here would be good. But below the table is a nice block of space for a sub.

A potential negative could be another volume control to worry about.



Using this input would mean you are supplying your sub with the full range of audio signals. Does your sub try to produce the higher frequencies as well or do you remove these using a low pass filter or some other means? My understanding is that a sub supplied with the full range would not sound good.

Many subs have low pass filters and you can send them the full range.

 

[madmatt30]

Then you have 2 options.
I use the line level from the display as I also use the display for other things besides the PC.

I'm not seeing a line output on the monitor, just a standard pre amped headphone output?

Which means if you plug a sub in (which is possible with the right cable) you'll also lose audio on the monitor speakers.

@shamatt

The issue with using a seperate sub and trying to use the monitor as stereo left/right via dp/hdmi is you cannot split audio in windows 10 across 2 outputs.

Meaning you can't directly enable digital left/right and analog sub.

There are software related workarounds but they're complicated and introduce latency between the two outputs, it may not sound as good as it should.

 

[Shahmatt]

So far as I can tell, in windows you can define only one source of sound.
Either monitor or motherboard.
The Z470 side speakers look to me as being quite small.
Looking around, check out the creative pebble plus 2.1 system.
https://www.amazon.com/Creative-USB...d/dp/B07NWLWM9B?tag=beebom-20&geniuslink=true
I have only the pebble speakers on a system and the sound is quite good to my ears.
The addition of a sub should do what you want.

Between the Pebble and the Logitech which would you prefer?

I'm not seeing a line output on the monitor, just a standard pre amped headphone output?

Which means if you plug a sub in (which is possible with the right cable) you'll also lose audio on the monitor speakers.

@shamatt

The issue with using a seperate sub and trying to use the monitor as stereo left/right via dp/hdmi is you cannot split audio in windows 10 across 2 outputs.

Meaning you can't directly enable digital left/right and analog sub.

There are software related workarounds but they're complicated and introduce latency between the two outputs, it may not sound as good as it should.

I have found this article, and find that the first method, aka stereo mix, appears to be available on my PC:

How to Use 2 Audio Outputs at the Same Time on Windows 10 [Tested]

Here are two methods that you can use to output audio to multiple devices. You'll get the job done in a few minutes, so try them out.

windowsreport.com

Would latency be a problem here as well?

 

[madmatt30]

Between the Pebble and the Logitech which would you prefer?



I have found this article, and find that the first method, aka stereo mix, appears to be available on my PC:

How to Use 2 Audio Outputs at the Same Time on Windows 10 [Tested]

Here are two methods that you can use to output audio to multiple devices. You'll get the job done in a few minutes, so try them out.

windowsreport.com

Would latency be a problem here as well?

You'd be using the left / right preamped audio outputs to do this.

Will it work? Yes
It may however produce some feedback through the sub, meaning hissing or crackling at low volumes.

If you can hold off on purchasing anything till after the weekend I'll pull one of my old subs down from the loft and try it on my lounge setup which is running through an oled tv.

It'll be pretty much the same scenario as you're currently considering.

 

[Shahmatt]

You'd be using the left / right preamped audio outputs to do this.

Will it work? Yes
It may however produce some feedback through the sub, meaning hissing or crackling at low volumes.

If you can hold off on purchasing anything till after the weekend I'll pull one of my old subs down from the loft and try it on my lounge setup which is running through an oled tv.

It'll be pretty much the same scenario as you're currently considering.

Much appreciated. I can decide by Sunday I think.

 

[hang-the-9]

The Logitech Z407 is easily available to me for a lot less than a sub.

But why do you think a dedicated sub is not a good idea. Is it because the existing display speakers would be inadequate?

Just to give an idea of the frequency range of the display speakers. When I play this Youtube video I can hear frequencies from 120 Hz and above.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URrEtyFSENc

Yes because the quality of the speakers and the crossover issues you can have with running an external sub.

 

[Shahmatt]

Yes because the quality of the speakers and the crossover issues you can have with running an external sub.

Could you elaborate? I used to have a Creative T3 and I find that these display speakers, to my ear at least, could at least match the satellites of that. But at a lower wattage as these are 7W only. Hence the interest in giving them a boost to see what happens. I don't need much power as it will only be me listening from in front of my computer.

A likely con as follows: In another forum I've been told that plugging in the subwoofer into the PC output would not yield a clean sound, and the signal would have higher frequencies mixed in. The only way to get a clean bass signal is to either route it through bookshelves or through AVR unit. This regardless of whether the PC has a c/sub output, or if the woofer has a low pass filter or cross-over adjustment. The man swears by this after years of commercial knowledge in sound. I am inclined to believe this might be true.

FWIW, on my PC speaker settings there is the option to limit what frequencies are sent to the display speakers - for example I can limit frequencies to 150Hz and above only, and in so doing prevent these speakers from butchering lower frequencies.

 

[madmatt30]

Could you elaborate? I used to have a Creative T3 and I find that these display speakers, to my ear at least, could at least match the satellites of that. But at a lower wattage as these are 7W only. Hence the interest in giving them a boost to see what happens. I don't need much power as it will only be me listening from in front of my computer.

A likely con as follows: In another forum I've been told that plugging in the subwoofer into the PC output would not yield a clean sound, and the signal would have higher frequencies mixed in. The only way to get a clean bass signal is to either route it through bookshelves or through AVR unit. This regardless of whether the PC has a c/sub output, or if the woofer has a low pass filter or cross-over adjustment. The man swears by this after years of commercial knowledge in sound. I am inclined to believe this might be true.

FWIW, on my PC speaker settings there is the option to limit what frequencies are sent to the display speakers - for example I can limit frequencies to 150Hz and above only, and in so doing prevent these speakers from butchering lower frequencies.

Regarding the sub, that's not true.

If the sub has a low pass filter and definable controls then it will cut out any frequency above what it's set to.

While coax and a digital signal on a dedicated sub out port is the norm on modern mid to high end equipment a lot of older or cheaper subs had speaker level inputs which works absolutely fine.

That edifier t5 will accept a headphone type input (even comes with the cables) and allow you to cut off high frequencies.

I have no idea on the wharfedale model you mentioned because I can't find it??

I'll drag my old eltac atomic out (time permitting) either today or tomorrow and have a tryout as I said I would, it's an 80w powered 7 inch sub so I would expect to be fairly similar to the edifier you've already mentioned.

EDIT - found the wharfedale now, it's a better specced sub than the edifier, the frequency range also makes a lot more sense, goes down to 30htz and the 150htz upper limit is higher than you need too.

 

[madmatt30]

I've had a play around with this.

My opinion is simply don't.

The first issue is that volume wise you'd have to spend time balancing the sub and monitor volume then never touching them again and only using windows to control volume.

The second issue is you need to set the sub as default and pass the stereo mix to hdmi/dp which leads to the below....

The third (and main) issue is there is lag introduced when using stereo mix, it may be miniscule but it makes a massive difference.

You need a sub to be tight and absolutely in sync.

That stereo mix add a few ms to the audio. The speaker play behind the sub, this creates a weird reverse echo effect, while there's bass it isn't in sync and it honestly sounds awful.

Had a mess around for about an hour, absolutely can't get any improvement at all.

 

[Shahmatt]

I've had a play around with this.

My opinion is simply don't.

The first issue is that volume wise you'd have to spend time balancing the sub and monitor volume then never touching them again and only using windows to control volume.

The second issue is you need to set the sub as default and pass the stereo mix to hdmi/dp which leads to the below....

The third (and main) issue is there is lag introduced when using stereo mix, it may be miniscule but it makes a massive difference.

You need a sub to be tight and absolutely in sync.

That stereo mix add a few ms to the audio. The speaker play behind the sub, this creates a weird reverse echo effect, while there's bass it isn't in sync and it honestly sounds awful.

Had a mess around for about an hour, absolutely can't get any improvement at all.

A lag would definitely be a deal breaker. I will go for the 2.1 solution. Thanks very much for the experiment. Hope it was not too much of an inconvenience.

 

[madmatt30]

A lag would definitely be a deal breaker. I will go for the 2.1 solution. Thanks very much for the experiment. Hope it was not too much of an inconvenience.

No problem, I was quite interested myself as I have 2 subs sat in the loft and numerous screens with inbuilt speakers knocking about.

Pretty disappointed at the outcome in all honesty - I actually expected it to work OK but alas.....