Suggestions for Undead Encounter?

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"Rump Ranger" <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote in message
news:1111714409.391971.325050@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > The whole idea was to place something utterly defeatable in the path
> of the
> > PC's who was utterly convinced of his own invincability. The humor
> is in
> > the irony, guys, sheesh.
> >
>
> Dude, I got it. You got a chuckle out of me when I read it and I was
> responding more to Rupert. The idea of a 1d4 hp kobold assuming he's
> able take on a party of high level adventurers is actually funny
> because it's *absurd* rather than ironic.

Yeah, well the joke was on them. It took MORE THAN ONE ROUND TO KILL THE
THING!!! Since nobody took it seriously, the first thing that happened was
a fighter tried to throw a warhammer at it, but critically missed, hitting
the wizard behind him on the head. Everyone laughed, and the kobold didn't
really know what to do(since he couldn't actually REACH any of them, given
that they were on horseback). The NEXT round, the wizard had collected
himself enough to actually cast a spell, said "screw it, I'm not going to
leave this up to YOU inept idiots" and magic missiled the thing into
oblivion. To say "overkill" would be a bit of an understatement.

> > In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
> archers
> > and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing
> as last
> > time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT
> A
> > TICK!!
> >
>
> If they're mature enough and don't masterbate on their character
> sheets, chances are they'll enjoy it.

Well, they are, and they ... uh... don't... *puzzled look* That whole
"masturbating on character sheets" is an issue for your group? "Eww,
Thundar is all sticky!"

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:

> In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of archers
> and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as last
> time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
> TICK!!

Kobold Stormtroopers, 60hp each 😉

 

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"J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote in message
news:3ah40aF6c4sleU1@individual.net...
> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>
> > In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
archers
> > and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as
last
> > time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
> > TICK!!
>
> Kobold Stormtroopers, 60hp each 😉

Yep, that's about the size of it. They're used to kobolds falling off their
swords as they are sliced n diced 50 per round. It will be a CONSIDERABLE
shock if they are facing a group of actually TOUGH kobolds.

"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
<scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the first
volley of arrows rains down>

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

[Mouse]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:41:36 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net> raised a finger to the sky and proclaimed:

>"J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> wrote in message
>news:3ah40aF6c4sleU1@individual.net...
>> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>>
>> > In the *NEXT* version, the lone kobold will be there with plenty of
>archers
>> > and wolves waiting in the wings. They'll assume it's the same thing as
>last
>> > time, laugh a bit and then (attempt to) dispatch the kobold, but WAIT A
>> > TICK!!
>>
>> Kobold Stormtroopers, 60hp each 😉
>
>Yep, that's about the size of it. They're used to kobolds falling off their
>swords as they are sliced n diced 50 per round. It will be a CONSIDERABLE
>shock if they are facing a group of actually TOUGH kobolds.
>
>"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
>hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
>monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
><scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the first
>volley of arrows rains down>

Man, your players are a lot easier to trick than mine. Mine keep
treating every threat as a credible one...

--
Either way, I hate you Count Chocula, if I didn't already.
- Drifter Bob, rec.games.frp.dnd

 

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"Mouse" <mail141023@pop.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:jhf8419e138h73jsp2njot2dohb2uvm3t8@4ax.com...
> >"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
> >hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
> >monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
> ><scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the
first
> >volley of arrows rains down>
>
> Man, your players are a lot easier to trick than mine. Mine keep
> treating every threat as a credible one...

Put them up against 10 threats that both appear weak and ARE weak in a row.
They'll let their guard down.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1111817655.436456.316190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> It's also in how the DM presents the little bastards. I like to use
> them as tiny pairs of red eyes in the darkness that skitter away when
> the PCs investigate. Later, they'll make their move at the most
> inopportune time for the party, such as after a tough fight, or when
> the party is picking their way out of a pit filled with poisoned
> spikes.

I used the old "candles in the darkness" routine a while ago. Several fog
filled, darkened rooms, you describe two lights(they look like flames, sez
DM) across the room, they investigate, it's candles lit and next to each
other. Do that a few times, and then spring them with some monster that has
flames for eyes(there's a bunch). That's always fun to have the party
literally STROLL into combat range for you.

> And, just to veer back to topic, kobold vampires could be fun. A whole
> horde of the little beasts spider-climbing up the walls of your inn and
> carrying off your familiar in the dead of night.

Our damn wizard hasn't yet decided to get a familiar for me to
steal/vampirize/kill, etc. It's somewhat annoying. 😉

I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by having
the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1111817655.436456.316190@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...


> > And, just to veer back to topic, kobold vampires could be fun. A
whole
> > horde of the little beasts spider-climbing up the walls of your inn
and
> > carrying off your familiar in the dead of night.
>
> Our damn wizard hasn't yet decided to get a familiar for me to
> steal/vampirize/kill, etc. It's somewhat annoying. 😉
>
> I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by
having
> the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.

Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could be
using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins" from
which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children. As
a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism, and
the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the noble
is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives alone
except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his family.

The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire" in
the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery and
save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.

Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
expect it.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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David Alex Lamb wrote:
> In article <1111833822.990783.123060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> Rump Ranger <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote:


> >That's what I think Jeff is doing. I can believe there are some
uber
> >kobolds out there (especially with 3E campaigns). High class types
> >who've done a lot of exploring or are scouts who keep their lairs
> >hidden from possible interlopers. Every race IMC has exceptional
> >individuals.
>
> However, instead of creating a bunch of very high level kobolds, it
seems to
> me a 3e campaign should simply apply the demographics rules for
highest level
> character(s) in a community of a particular size. So you wouldn't
have a 20th
> level kobold fighter in a community of 100.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking. Assuming that elusive
"standard" campaign world, I think a few exceptional individuals are
well and good, but more 3rd-level cheiftains and such, not 20th-level
powerhouses. Kobolds that exceptional might exist IMC, but only as PCs
or some Abyssal "lord of kobolds" type of thing.

Running into a kobold over level 10 is a stretch, I think, but again
YMMV. I've certainly run campaigns in the past where high-level
humanoids were appropriate and not uncommon.

There's certainly room for situational exceptions, particularly when
applying templates. A bunch of half-fiend or kobolds, for example,
might be fun in some cursed region of the Underdark where some demonic
artifact has been lodged for millennia.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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Rump Ranger wrote:


> My old Monster Manual II from the 1E days is packed away somewhere.
> After I got fed up with 2E, I jetisoned pretty much all 1E/2E rules
and
> came back when 3E came out. So my memory is not perfect on exact
> stats, but psuedo-undead are in fact basically living humanoids who
> *appear* as undead in all respects but aren't. The only thing which
> makes them special is that adventurers will fear they are the real
> deal. Looking at ENWorld, it looks like they converted it to 3E:
>
> http://www.enworld.org/cc/converted/template/pseudo-undead.htm
>
> All that said, what makes this lame concept so *totally stupid* is
that
> they're actually weaker than the undead they mimic and the characters
> will automatically assume it's the real deal and whoomp 'em. Even
> attempting to turn and fail might convince them to use
martial/magical
> might instead. It is possible the characters see a "psuedo-vampire"
or
> ghost and run, but then again in 3E, vampires and ghosts can start
> appearing at pretty low levels since they're templates.

The only real use for this template that comes to mind is for some sort
of "death cult" of living beings that take on the countanance of the
undead through twisted rituals or bizarre practices. I could see using
pseudo-vampires as hereditary protectors and servants of real vampires,
for example, or worshippers of dark gods that demand blood-drenched
sacrifices.

I don't know that I'd use them as some sort of bait-and-switch, though,
for the reasons you mention.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:d24ap5$n70$1@knot.queensu.ca...
> I can confidently assert that these ideas are charactistics of 8-year-old
> players. We have the "no character death unless you insist on doing
something
> stupid" variant of script immunity, and he named both of his characters
after
> himself.

Actually, your 8 year old comment is pretty much spot on target. At first,
I was kind of hesitant to invite him to leave, because he hadn't really done
anything overt towards me, but there was quite a bit of animosity at the
table between players. However, I could see where it was going and I had to
decide between losing one player or all players, and decided on the former,
and opted to invite him to leave. He had a temper tantrum(he's about 30).
It made my decision so much easier it wasn't even funny.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1111864757.967575.216680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it
by
> > having
> > > the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.
> >
> > Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could
be
> > using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins"
from
> > which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children.
As
> > a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism,
and
> > the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
> > further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
> > retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the
noble
> > is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives
alone
> > except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his
family.
>
> Not bad. How would the local lord not know about them, though? I
mean if
> they emerge, they either have to go thru the house(!!what's that
> racket!!*snurrggh**flahhh*flergh!*) or he would never actually drink
the
> wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure
that
> little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type
adventure.
> Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.

Well, it may be that there's an old tunnel leading from the wine cellar
to somewhere outside the estate grounds. For whatever reason the lord
doesn't have much use for the cellar anymore, and/or isn't aware of the
tunnel. He's certainly not doing much entertaining, and given his
situation, he may be on to stronger things nowadays than wine. The
kobolds themselves would likely be pretty stealthy anyway, vampires are
silent, and can always do the mist thing to come and go. Bat form is
also an option, and would likely escape notice in an enormous,
crumbling manor house that probably has all manner of vermin in the
rafters and only a handful of human residents.

>
> > The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire"
in
> > the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery
and
> > save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.
>
> Save the noble you've originally set out to kill for his vampirism, I
like
> it.
>
> > Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
> > expect it.
>
> Kobolds are so innocuous that they would be perfect for it.

It could also work with gnomes, wierdly enough.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1111864757.967575.216680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by
> having
> > the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.
>
> Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could be
> using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins" from
> which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children. As
> a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism, and
> the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
> further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
> retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the noble
> is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives alone
> except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his family.

Not bad. How would the local lord not know about them, though? I mean if
they emerge, they either have to go thru the house(!!what's that
racket!!*snurrggh**flahhh*flergh!*) or he would never actually drink the
wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure that
little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type adventure.
Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.

> The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire" in
> the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery and
> save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.

Save the noble you've originally set out to kill for his vampirism, I like
it.

> Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
> expect it.

Kobolds are so innocuous that they would be perfect for it.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Rump Ranger wrote:
> madafro@sbcglobal.net wrote:

> > And, just to veer back to topic, kobold vampires could be fun. A
> whole
> > horde of the little beasts spider-climbing up the walls of your inn
> and
> > carrying off your familiar in the dead of night.
> >
>
> Heh. Now that's evil. It's one reason I'm hesitant to actually get
> familiars when I played classes that allow them.

Yeah, you can overdo this kind of thing. I enjoy using animals and
children as plot hooks, not always in a mean way. I like my players to
get pets for their characters, after all, so I don't want to scare them
away from the practice.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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<madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1111897430.734570.270910@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> > wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure
> that
> > little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type
> adventure.
> > Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.
>
> Well, it may be that there's an old tunnel leading from the wine cellar
> to somewhere outside the estate grounds. For whatever reason the lord
> doesn't have much use for the cellar anymore, and/or isn't aware of the
> tunnel. He's certainly not doing much entertaining, and given his
> situation, he may be on to stronger things nowadays than wine.

The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord in a
somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a crackling
fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire, back to
the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the chair at
the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in... Please,
sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and forboding
night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT YOU!!
HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's chest.
*gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err, well,
I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose a
'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Rump Ranger wrote:
>
<snip story>
>
> My point is, some people get so attached to their D&D
> characters that they can sometimes break down to tears
> when they're killed. It's kinda like players who name
> all characters after themselves.

Interestingly, naming a character after yourself is considered to be a
major warning sign of a "Mary Sue" story (fanfiction or otherwise).

I suspect this is not a coincidence.

http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/otto/grayswandir/mary-sue-test.html


Arivne

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:


> The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord
in a
> somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a
crackling
> fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire,
back to
> the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the
chair at
> the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in...
Please,
> sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and
forboding
> night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
> MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT
YOU!!
> HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's
chest.
> *gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err,
well,
> I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose
a
> 'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."


Reminds me of "Transylvania 6-5000" for some reason.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro

 

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On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:48:19 -0500, Jeff Goslin wrote:

> The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord in a
> somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a crackling
> fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire, back to
> the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the chair at
> the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in... Please,
> sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and forboding
> night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
> MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT YOU!!
> HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's chest.
> *gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err, well,
> I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose a
> 'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."

This makes a fine example of a situation where a paladin _should_ be
firing off his ability to detect evil.


"Hmmm. Guys, something's wrong here: He isn't a vampire."

--
Phoenix

 

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"Rick Pikul" <rwpikul@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news😛an.2005.03.28.03.32.11.720327@sympatico.ca...
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 02:48:19 -0500, Jeff Goslin wrote:
>
> > The really funny part comes when the party first encounters the lord in
a
> > somewhat sinister appearing place. Imagine, a darkened parlor, a
crackling
> > fire in the backround, a large high backed chair facing the fire, back
to
> > the door. The old man hears the door open, and peers around the chair
at
> > the door. In your best vampiric voice possible, "Doooo come in...
Please,
> > sit down, enjoy the comforts I can offer you on this dark and forboding
> > night..." Mr Paladin steps up to the plate, "I'LL SHOW YOU WHAT FOR,
> > MISTER!!!" He strides over to the old guy in the chair, "HAVE AT YOU!!
> > HA*HA!!!*" With that, he plunges a wooden stake into the guy's chest.
> > *gurgle* *gasp* *spit up blood* *die in arms of paladin*... "err, well,
> > I.... hrm... that was easy..." Player turns to DM... "So, I suppose a
> > 'woops' is in order right about now, huh?" "I should say so, yes..."
>
> This makes a fine example of a situation where a paladin _should_ be
> firing off his ability to detect evil.
>
>
> "Hmmm. Guys, something's wrong here: He isn't a vampire."

Edit, Replace, search for: Paladin, replace with: Dumb As FencePost
Fighter... 😉

On a side note, work on that sense of humor, it's a bit rusty. 😉

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 03:35:29 -0500, Jeff Goslin wrote:

> "Rick Pikul" <rwpikul@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news😛an.2005.03.28.03.32.11.720327@sympatico.ca...

>> This makes a fine example of a situation where a paladin _should_ be
>> firing off his ability to detect evil.
>>
>>
>> "Hmmm. Guys, something's wrong here: He isn't a vampire."
>
> Edit, Replace, search for: Paladin, replace with: Dumb As FencePost
> Fighter... 😉
>
> On a side note, work on that sense of humor, it's a bit rusty. 😉

Actually, I was more making note that you came up with a very good
example, even if it was intended to be humourous. In fact, the
"funny-oops" nature of it is part of what makes it a good example.

--
Phoenix

 

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"Rick Pikul" <rwpikul@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news😛an.2005.03.29.05.59.27.495029@sympatico.ca...
> > Edit, Replace, search for: Paladin, replace with: Dumb As FencePost
> > Fighter... 😉
> >
> > On a side note, work on that sense of humor, it's a bit rusty. 😉
>
> Actually, I was more making note that you came up with a very good
> example, even if it was intended to be humourous. In fact, the
> "funny-oops" nature of it is part of what makes it a good example.

Well, thank you. Personally, I like putting characters in situations that
have a humorous silver lining in them. We play for fun, after all. I don't
think I can recall a recent adventure that DIDN'T have at least one humorous
encounter. I mean, it's not all clowny and stuff, we do serious stuff too,
but it's fun to let your hair down once in an 8 hour session, ya know? It's
what we do to unwind, after all.

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> "Mouse" <mail141023@pop.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:jhf8419e138h73jsp2njot2dohb2uvm3t8@4ax.com...
>
>>>"Huh? I have to actually FIGURE OUT the damage? But my minimum is more
>>>hitpoints than he can have?!?!... What the... uh oh! He's not using
>>>monster manual stats! SON of a *BITCH*!!"
>>><scrambling noises as the PC's try to formulate a real plan while the
>
> first
>
>>>volley of arrows rains down>
>>
>>Man, your players are a lot easier to trick than mine. Mine keep
>>treating every threat as a credible one...
>
>
> Put them up against 10 threats that both appear weak and ARE weak in a row.
> They'll let their guard down.

Then, you give them a kobold named Brucius Banerius... "Don't make me
abgry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."

 

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Jeff Goslin wrote:
> <madafro@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:1111864757.967575.216680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>I like the vampiric kobolds though. Maybe you could forecast it by
>>
>>having
>>
>>>the party find lots of miniature coffins. That would be funny.
>>
>>Heh. You could go creepy, too. The batch of vampire kobolds could be
>>using empty wine casks in some noble's cellar as their "coffins" from
>>which they venture out every night to work evil and steal children. As
>>a result, the noble gains this undeserved reputation for vampirism, and
>>the resultant hatred and fear from the commoners of his land. For
>>further red herring goodness, give the noble a sickly pallor or a
>>retiring demeanor to enhance the misconception. Even worse, the noble
>>is broke. His estate is crumbling from disrepair, and he lives alone
>>except for a few loyal retainers that are sworn to serve his family.
>
>
> Not bad. How would the local lord not know about them, though? I mean if
> they emerge, they either have to go thru the house(!!what's that
> racket!!*snurrggh**flahhh*flergh!*) or he would never actually drink the
> wine he owns and it's in a separate building or something. Figure that
> little snag out, and you've got yourself a good red herring type adventure.
> Personally, I *REALLY* like red herring adventures.
>
>
>>The party would initially be drawn in to investigate the "vampire" in
>>the old manor, only to eventually have to solve the real mystery and
>>save the noble from being staked by superstitious peasants.
>
>
> Save the noble you've originally set out to kill for his vampirism, I like
> it.
>
>
>>Doesn't have to be kobolds, of course, but the players would never
>>expect it.
>
>
> Kobolds are so innocuous that they would be perfect for it.

Maybe the Noble is so poor that rather than continue paying his
servants, he dismissed them and hired Kobolds to be his servants a
couple decades ago. That's why they are there.

Of course, they weren't vampiric at the time. That happened in the last
couple months/years, when a vampiric kobold heard about the sweet lair
the other kobolds were living in, came around, and 'took over' the tribe.

They haven't killed the noble, because he unwittingly provides
protection to their predations, being embarrassed to have kobolds as
servants, he doesn't allow anyone into the central keep, so no one else
knows they are around.

 

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madafro@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> David Alex Lamb wrote:
>
>>In article <1111833822.990783.123060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>>Rump Ranger <buttpirate@fadmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>That's what I think Jeff is doing. I can believe there are some
>
> uber
>
>>>kobolds out there (especially with 3E campaigns). High class types
>>>who've done a lot of exploring or are scouts who keep their lairs
>>>hidden from possible interlopers. Every race IMC has exceptional
>>>individuals.
>>
>>However, instead of creating a bunch of very high level kobolds, it
>
> seems to
>
>>me a 3e campaign should simply apply the demographics rules for
>
> highest level
>
>>character(s) in a community of a particular size. So you wouldn't
>
> have a 20th
>
>>level kobold fighter in a community of 100.
>
>
> This is along the lines of what I was thinking. Assuming that elusive
> "standard" campaign world, I think a few exceptional individuals are
> well and good, but more 3rd-level cheiftains and such, not 20th-level
> powerhouses. Kobolds that exceptional might exist IMC, but only as PCs
> or some Abyssal "lord of kobolds" type of thing.
>
> Running into a kobold over level 10 is a stretch, I think, but again
> YMMV. I've certainly run campaigns in the past where high-level
> humanoids were appropriate and not uncommon.
>
> There's certainly room for situational exceptions, particularly when
> applying templates. A bunch of half-fiend or kobolds, for example,
> might be fun in some cursed region of the Underdark where some demonic
> artifact has been lodged for millennia.

In an OD&D game I was in many years back, we ended up with a clutch of
Kobold Eggs, and decided to take them home and hatch them (We were quite
low level at the time).

By the time the campaign ended (due to graduations, marriages etc), we
were in the 15-17 level range, and the kobolds were trusty NPCs and
companions, with levels ranging from 3 to 7.

If you encounter kobolds laired in an empty mage's tower, the leaders
may very well have been that mage's trusted companions, so watch out.

Imagine the same situation in 3E: The tribe is lead by former
followers/cohorts of an adeventuring party that retired. The hundred or
so kobolds you've just met may well include a dozen fighters and
wizard/sorceror-types in the 6 to 10 level range, all trained and tested
in the 'Big Leagues' of Dungeon Delving. These leader types have
trained their new tribe, so many, if not all will be leveled, the
exceptional among them being 3rd to fifth level.

So, whattya got?
5 Fighter Types leveled 5 to 10
5 Wizard Types leveled 5 to 10
10 Fighter Types leveled 3 to 5
10 Wizard Types leveled 3 to 5
15 Fighter Types leveled 1 to 3
15 Wizard Types leveled 1 to 3
40 Normal Kobolds

With experience coupled to innate cunning.

*shudder*