System Builder Marathon, Dec. 2011: $2400 Performance PC

[lamsid]

This may have been answered in other threads... but I'm wondering why 8GB of memory was chosen instead of 16GB? Honestly, I want to know. I would think that 8GB would be more than enough for anything the majority of users would be doing, but every time I mention plans of a build with 8GB I receive feedback saying 16GB is the way to go.

Also, can it be safe to assume that these OC settings cannot be achieved if air-cooled graphics and CPU were used instead of liquid?

 

[jaquith]

RAM - it's not a good idea to use XMP and then manually set (CAS-TRCD-TRP-TRAS-CMD) it's an accident waiting to happen.

 

[clonazepam]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]Really, I think all of us would take a triplet of 3D displays, I'm just waiting for the offer![/citation]

As soon as I win the lottery, build a super computer to rival that recent SSD based one in a recent article, they're yours, rofl

 

[gm0n3y]

I still think that the performance ratings need to be more heavily weighted to gaming. People building an all-around home use rig are most likely to desire the greatest performance in gaming scenarios. How about instead of the 10/30/30/30 (storage/gaming/encoding/productivity) you use 10/40/25/25.

 

[RealBeast]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]How can a car can have a trunk and not be classified as a delivery vehicle? How can a delivery van can have a passenger seat and not be called a passenger vehicle?[/citation]

Crashman, I'd like to test one Ferrari 599 GTO delivery vehicle if you guys could arrange it, then I could make those just in time for Christmas deliveries.

 

[Onyx2291]

I kind of wish you guys made videos them being built.

 

[cobra5000]

I guess i don't know what a "pure" gaming system is if you spend over 1k on watercooled gpu's and then call it a "pc that plays games well"? My old AMD 965 @ 3.8 w/5870, "plays games well". This thing should poop shiny pixels and sparkly rainbows, (i'm not saying it doesn't), but this whole "pure gaming" terminology seems a bit pretentious.

 

[youssef 2010]

[citation][nom]Article[/nom]Take this warning to heart: PNY’s liquid-cooled cards should only be used with custom fan speeds, even when they're not overclocked. That’s because the memory and voltage regulator are still fan-cooled, and the fan is controlled by GPU temperature. Our tests indicate that PNY doesn't alter the air-cooled-card’s fan profile, and the lower GPU temperatures enabled by liquid cooling result in the fan slowing down to a point that the card can overheat.[/citation]

REAAALLLLLLLLLLY!!!!!!! You mean they didn't even bother to modify the default fan map for the cards to fix that issue. Oh well, I expect when they're targeting the enthusiast market, every one will change the fan map anyway. Still, they should have posted that on their website or mention it anywhere they find convenient instead of you buying some sweet LC GPUs only to spend hours trying to think about the reason for overheating. Smart guys.

 

[youssef 2010]

[citation][nom]Onyx2291[/nom]I kind of wish you guys made videos them being built.[/citation]

Me too. Please consider this in your future SBMs.

 

[clonazepam]

[citation][nom]youssef 2010[/nom]REAAALLLLLLLLLLY!!!!!!! You mean they didn't even bother to modify the default fan map for the cards to fix that issue. Oh well, I expect when they're targeting the enthusiast market, every one will change the fan map anyway. Still, they should have posted that on their website or mention it anywhere they find convenient instead of you buying some sweet LC GPUs only to spend hours trying to think about the reason for overheating. Smart guys.[/citation]

Not to mention relying on a competitor's software to do it!

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]cobra5000[/nom]I guess i don't know what a "pure" gaming system is if you spend over 1k on watercooled gpu's and then call it a "pc that plays games well"? My old AMD 965 @ 3.8 w/5870, "plays games well". This thing should poop shiny pixels and sparkly rainbows, (i'm not saying it doesn't), but this whole "pure gaming" terminology seems a bit pretentious.[/citation]OK then let me make this simple: If all you do is game you can get by with a small hard drive or SSD, and crappy CPU with a high O/C, a little memory at high data rate, and spend all your money on graphics. That used to be possible with parts like the Core i3-530 and Crucial's overclockable DDR3-1333 4GB kits.

If you want to do OTHER THINGS, you need a big drive. If you want to do other COMPLEX things, you might want more RAM. Etc etc etc.[citation][nom]youssef 2010[/nom]REAAALLLLLLLLLLY!!!!!!! You mean they didn't even bother to modify the default fan map for the cards to fix that issue. Oh well, I expect when they're targeting the enthusiast market, every one will change the fan map anyway. Still, they should have posted that on their website or mention it anywhere they find convenient instead of you buying some sweet LC GPUs only to spend hours trying to think about the reason for overheating. Smart guys.[/citation]It appears that's what happened, and it would explain why PNY isn't shipping them any more. Imagine the returns for memory errors. If PNY were to simply write it off as a fail rather than figure out that changing the fan map can fix it, well now that would be, as you would say...

 

[blacksci]

This makes sense of why so many people were saying the "pump had failed" when i read reviews on these cards last month. Interesting...

 

[geekapproved]

Those prices are way high, are they using Peso's?

 

[Crashman]

This makes sense of why so many people were saying the "pump had failed" when i read reviews on these cards last month. Interesting...

I guess it could appear that way to anyone who didn't know how to check the GPU temperature "card overheats, radiator cold, pump must fail" but of course in this case the card can overheat without the GPU overheating because the memory and voltage regulator use a separate air, rather than liquid, circuit.

 

[MonsterMawd]

I think the Arc Midi is very versatile in comparison to the 300. I like the removable steel HD cages and there is many more options for cooling I've installed both air and water cool systems in the Arc. I recently outfitted the Arc Midi case with dual loop... Drilling 4 holes in the bezel, for mounting a 1540mm size radiator was only modification needed. I removed the front grill in this photo, so you can see how clean my execution was.

http://www.mnpctech.3dpixelnet.com/picture_library/fractal_design_arc_midi_dual_loop_ces_2012_mnpctech.jpg

Asus Sabertooth P67 Rev 3
eVGA GeForce 560Ti
Patriot 8GB Division 2, VIPER EXTREME, DDR3
Patriot SSD WILDFIRE 120GB
SeaSonic X750 Gold
EK-Supreme HFHigh Flow CPU Water Block - Acetal+EN (Nickel)
EK-FC560 GTX V2 - Acetal + EN (Nickel)
Koolance RP-402X2 Dual 5.25" Reservoir
Koolance Bleed Pipe Kit for RP-402X2
Black Ice® GT Stealth 240 Highest Performance Radiator
EK-CoolStream Radiator XTC (140)
Enzotech (BRHF-G1/4-12-45) 45 Degree Rotary Fitting G 1/4 Thread
Enzotech (BRHF-G1/4-12-30) 30 Degree Rotary Fitting G 1/4 Thread - Matte Black
PrimoFlex Pro LRT White Tubing -1/2in. ID X 3/4in. OD
Danger Den UV White Delrin 1/2" (3/4" OD) Tubing Clamps
Feser One F1 Cooling Fluid - Black/UV Blue - 1 Liter

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]MonsterMawd[/nom]I think the Arc Midi is very versatile in comparison to the 300. I like the removable steel HD cages and there is many more options for cooling.[/citation] Design is good, I just wish it was a little thicker.

 

[darreng101]

Looks pretty good on the whole, the graphics card choice is a personal one and could be swapped over if req'd.

My biggest problem with this build is a small value item, the WD Green is a really crap drive for anything other than backup. Its sooooo slow and I would recommend people go for a WD Black, even at a smaller capacity. You will really notice the difference.

 

[f-14]

can't be stressed enough: quality>performance>price. in that order.
citing the blu ray player
the ram
the motherboard
the case (although i can't blame the editor solely based on it's look)
monetarily wise there were so much better options to pick on those 4 with this budget and yet every time it's where things are skimped upon that bottlenecks the whole rig.
if it's the high budget build as a simple rule of thumb nothing less then 4 eggs should be purchased unless there is ample reason in the review to show it's mostly novices who don't know what they are doing giving the poor ratings.
since people hate wasting money the same rule should apply to the lower budget builds as well but with nothing less then 3 eggs if the part being purchased is a risk based solely on it's price to fit the budget.
save the experimenting for the product review, and if toms hasn't reviewed it, check with another site that has if you're not going to bother reading the customer reviews. corsair has for far longer a period of time been like evga, parts are binned at the top end maxed out to their longest warranty period already with little to no head room to over clock.
as far as the rest of the build, loved it! i just hate seeing premium parts for the money being placed with junk you know is going to be the bottleneck or a disaster waiting to happen. i see this in so many builds before even getting to the benchies i just lose heart and skip to the conclusion for affirmation of my immediate thought on which pieces are the weakest links in the chain that cause the build to fail in performance.
loved AMD but they have lost their edge on the very things that made them great: better performance than Intel, AMD lost it completely when they fell behind in the memory bus.
please don't bother using the new bulldozer/FX chips in the SBM until AMD physically corrects this issue. knowing the memory controller bus speeds are vastly inferior is all that needs to be said. the AMD line up reeks too much of ATI management and reeks all the way into the video cards with the same problem i cite the long out dated over use of the 64bit and 128 bit memory bus. can you imagine if intell still made cpus they were stuck on 33 and 66mhz bus, i find it ridiculous to still see the 64/128bit bus still used 5 years after 512bit was implemented anything with less then 256bit shouldn't even be reviewed, we already know it sucks just by that mere fact and unless it's for mobile, it's not even worth mentioning.
same goes for variable bit rate encoding and single threaded or 32 bit applications, stop talking about them, stop using them for reviews. when the only thing being spot lighted in the media is 64 bit and multi threaded stuff, the application makers will switch if only for the advertisement they do not have the millions of dollars for marketing budget.

 

[leonkennedy_7]

hi the system looks great but i have a question when building such a high end gaming system would it be wise to invest a little in a good sound card, people often overlook the audio in games but good audio is as important as a good graphic card or a good monitor imo..

 

[ebmuzik]

OK then let me make this simple: If all you do is game you can get by with a small hard drive or SSD, and crappy CPU with a high O/C, a little memory at high data rate, and spend all your money on graphics. That used to be possible with parts like the Core i3-530 and Crucial's overclockable DDR3-1333 4GB kits.

If you want to do OTHER THINGS, you need a big drive. If you want to do other COMPLEX things, you might want more RAM. Etc etc etc.It appears that's what happened, and it would explain why PNY isn't shipping them any more. Imagine the returns for memory errors. If PNY were to simply write it off as a fail rather than figure out that changing the fan map can fix it, well now that would be, as you would say...

FYI: PNY is shipping these as of early Feb '12, so this theory of wonky fan throttling doesn't fly. In fact, I'm having real difficulty understanding what EXACTLY you say is overheating. Is it the GPU, the memory, the voltage regulator? The article seems to contradict itself in that whole paragraph. First the GPU has a low temperature, then it's overheating. Could you provide some clarification?