System Builder Marathon, June 2010: $2,000 Performance PC

[Userremoved]

Wow a three hundred really?

 

[Userremoved]

Why did they chose the Three hundred over the HAF 922 or Storm Scout.

 

[dertechie]

[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]No Hearts of Iron on the consoles. Consoles = fail.[/citation]

So that's why they want to OC the thing so much. . .

 

[lapoki]

It could help, but you do understand this is the highest possible reading (from the CPU die, not surface) under the highest possible load right? You don't get a load like that 24/7, most people never see a load like that. I've seen stock i7's run in the low-70's under the same circumstances. Yes, it's unfortunate that there is no way to get an accurate reading from the Northbridge. Most people just ignore that their temperature reading is wrong and report it anyway.I seriously doubt that you've ever used a program that maxes out the CPU and GPU simultaneously. On top of that, according to the power supply's efficiency rating it should have been outputing around 670W (less than its rated limit) while consuming 858W, so this isn't the end of the world.SSD does nothing for benchmarks, and there will be a value comparison on Friday that uses ONLY the cost and benchmark results.Again I refer to the competition. A so-called "better" case that is no more durable and doesn't even make the CPU cooler is just a waste of money.

Is this machine supposed to be just used for benchmarking?
Dont know about u but i found upgrading to SSD provided a nice and very noticeable boost to my system. Yes i know u wont see any difference in benches but anybody buying this system for gaming and other intensive use could really do with a SSD.

Another thought, why not put 2 5870s in here? They surely fit the budget...

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]ionut19[/nom]CPU cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181010 And it is about 20$ more expensive. Total Current Cost $1,808 It could have fit into the budget. Wouldn't it be a better cooler for the CPU?[/citation]Unfortunately no, that cooler would have made the CPU run hotter while reducing its overclocking capability: [nom]foscooter[/nom]Was]http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/h50-fort120-cogage,2401-6.html[citation][nom]foscooter[/nom]Was there room for a side fan? Was it included or additional? Could it really cool the GFX cards?What is the difference b/t my Antec 300, and the 300 Illusion? Fans included? All 3: 2 front, 1 side? Top and back are included?[/citation]Illusion has two front, one top and one rear fan included. The side fan was not added for a couple reasons: First, the intake to exaust fans are fairly well balanced (pressure wise) and second, the side hole is too far forward to align with the graphics card intakes. Because of the direction of flow and device locations, it was determined that the side fan would not likely prove beneficial to overall cooling[citation][nom]foscooter[/nom]I can't believe the DVD they picked (even as a THG recommended pick). Have you read the reviews on NewEgg? No BD support, it $99.00 more for the software.[/citation]This is a retail unit that comes with software that only seems to work if you have the right hardware and OS. The entire video path needs to support HDCP, and the OS needs to be Windows 7. Check, and check.[citation][nom]Userremoved[/nom]Why did they chose the Three hundred over the HAF 922 or Storm Scout.[/citation]If a floor-model would have been desired, Thermaltake Element V would have been chosen: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-computer-case,2579-15.html Fortunately, this builder actually likes to put his system on top of, rather than under, his desk.

 

[Userremoved]

I was able to find other parts yet it's cheaper and some of the parts are superior:


COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

-$20.00 Instant


$109.99
$89.99



XFX HD-597A-CNB9 Radeon HD 5970 Black Edition 2GB 512 (256 x 2)-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support ...



$719.99



CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active ...


-$20.00 Instant
$10.00 Mail-in Rebate Card17-139-010

$169.99
$149.99



$294.99
$289.99

select item 8 quantity of item 8


Scythe SY1225SL12LM-P 120mm Case Fan


$21.98
($10.99 each)





Prolimatech Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler

-$7.99 Instant


$69.99
$62.00


LITE-ON Black Blu-ray Disc Combo SATA Model iHES208-08 LightScribe Support


$99.99

Subtotal: $1,793.91

I'm sorry but I'm just not impressed by this mounts system.

 

[Crashman]

I was able to find other parts yet it's cheaper and some of the parts are superior:
COOLER MASTER HAF 922
$109.99
XFX HD-597A-CNB9 Radeon HD 5970 Black Edition 2GB
$719.99
CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-750HX 750W
$169.99
I'm sorry but I'm just not impressed by this mounts system.

You wanted the case downgraded to a HAF 922 for a $40 increase in price? Yes, it's a downgrade:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-computer-case,2579-15.html

Then, you wanted the power supply upgraded for a $60 increase in price, you're up by $100 and have not yet improved performance.

Finally, you wanted the graphics downgraded at a $20 increase in price? You saw the results, you've seen that these two 470's outperform the 5970 of the previous system.

So, you're up by $120 and have a slower system. I like the that the power supply is 80-Plus Silver rated, but otherwise I'm completely unimpressed by your so-called improvements.

 

[Userremoved]

You wanted the case downgraded to a HAF 922 for a $40 increase in price? Yes, it's a downgrade:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-computer-case,2579-15.html

Then, you wanted the power supply upgraded for a $60 increase in price, you're up by $100 and have not yet improved performance.

Finally, you wanted the graphics downgraded at a $20 increase in price? You saw the results, you've seen that these two 470's outperform the 5970 of the previous system.

So, you're up by $120 and have a slower system. I like the that the power supply is 80-Plus Silver rated, but otherwise I'm completely unimpressed by your so-called improvements.

What I meant to show is that really why would someone chose a budget case on a enthusiast build and what about the CM Advanced II and Storm Scout? I also dont see the Three hundred beating those cases. Maybe the 5970 is a little slower but it's a single slot solution, it outputs less heat and uses less power which correct me if I'm wrong those helps in OCing components or you could change that for two 5870s. I'm not trying to insult you Crashman but I still think the March build (1500$) (with a few tweaks) is a better system.

Edit: Also dosent the GTX470 take a load of power compared to the ATI cards?

 

[torbee]

I'm surprised by your 930 limit. I recently built a gaming system around a i7-930 with the Swiftech watercooling solution you built your $3K system around and I get a stable 4.3G at 1.33v for 70-75 degrees. I did place the double fan radiator outside the case though...

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]Userremoved[/nom]What I meant to show is that really why would someone chose a budget case on a enthusiast build and what about the CM Advanced II and Storm Scout? I also dont see the Three hundred beating those cases. Maybe the 5970 is a little slower but it's a single slot solution, it outputs less heat and uses less power which correct me if I'm wrong those helps in OCing components or you could change that for two 5870s. I'm not trying to insult you Crashman but I still think the March build (1500$) (with a few tweaks) is a better system.Edit; Also dosent the GTX470 take a load of power compared to the ATI cards?[/citation]Two 470's make one power monster. One 5970 makes a slightly less hungry but still monsterous power monster. The point of using a liquid-cooled 5970 in the previous SBM was to overcome the thermal limits of air-cooled 5970's which are notoriously poor overclockers...you simply can get the sink area you need to overclock those two GPU's onto a single card. But the dual 5870's were considered right next to the dual 470's...power would have been similar.[citation][nom]torbee[/nom]I'm surprised by your 930 limit. I recently built a gaming system around a i7-930 with the Swiftech watercooling solution you built your $3K system around and I get a stable 4.3G at 1.33v for 70-75 degrees. I did place the double fan radiator outside the case though...[/citation]The SBM series has had TWO stellar 920's (4.3GHz+) since the i7 was released. Its also had two "dud overclocker" 920's. This 930 fell between them, and it wasn't even a cooling issue. The thing would actually overclock higher if you added more voltage, but the voltage was limited to prevent CPU damage. Tom's actually ordered two fans for the Megahelems cooler and while the larger fan did offer better temperatures, the CPU wouldn't clock any higher using the builder's "safe and sane" voltage limit. The previous system's ability to overclock at lower voltage is simply further proof that the previous system had a better processor.

 

[Userremoved]

But you did not talk about the air cooled 5870s dont they stay cooler than the GTX470s?

 

[Crashman]

But you did not talk about the air cooled 5870s dont they stay cooler than the GTX470s?

Yes. They actually need to stay around 15C cooler just to remain stable. I'm not certain what the cause of the 5870's heat-intolerance is, but the 5870s do overclock better than the GTX 470 in spite of the 5870's stricter heat limits.

 

[Userremoved]

So would it give any advantages?

 

[captainnochords]

[citation][nom]maydaynomore[/nom]save yourself $1,700 and buy a PS3 or a Xbox. Games are ported to the PC anyways (except for a few titles). Fifa Soccer looks horrible on a pc, or any other sports game (which is what I mostly play anymore). Spend the money on a vaccation, college fund for your kids. How about a 50" TV with an xbox and a blue-ray player. PC gaming is dying...as much as I hate it, its true. Used to be an avid PC gamer. Defended PC gaming against console fanboys. Not anymore. I've given in... We lost, they won. This was somewhat of a close fight. Next round the PC will get knocked out. I hate it as much as you do, but its inevitable. You want someone to blame? Blame Pirates. They killed PC gaming.[/citation]

There was an interesting article on Cracked today - I know it's a comedy site, but they usually have valid points in with the penis jokes - about first impressions from E3. Basically the opinion was that console gaming seems to be on its deathbed as well. It seems that gaming is in a rather low spot overall. And piracy is a problem with music and movies as well as games. I think we need more time to see how new business models develop to deal with the technologies we have, because it seems to me that they're still catching up. I don't see any of these industries dying off completely. And who's to say that if PC gaming dwindles piracy won't begin to focus on console games? Thieves will flock to where the money is.

In any case, I think it's a bit premature to sound the death knell for any platform - there's a lot more to come from everything.

 

[Userremoved]

Those that mean this will possibly modify the parts for this system?

 

[envolva]

Great read, I was wondering about the GTX 470 in SLI. But I feel sorry you guys are so unlucky overclocking. I'm running 24/7 with a i7 920 at 3.8Ghz and 1.25V.

It's not the best overclock possible, but it's sufficient, very efficient and possibly more durable than pushing 1.44V day and night for 4.1Ghz. The benchmark should include a moderate overclock (3.6Ghz/ 3.8Ghz with turbo) instead of the all or nothing.

 

[Crashman]

So would it give any advantages?

I believe it would. I contacted Don Woligroski concerning this issue and the possibility of using two HD 5850's as well. His assessment that two 470's offer more performance per dollar than two 5850's or 5870's, and I took that assessment at face value since he is one of two graphics gurus at Tom's Hardware U.S.

 

[captainnochords]

Also, thank you Tom's for dropping the prices this time around. I'm looking to build my first system soon and this is exactly what I need to help me get started, since I'm looking to spend as little as possible. Economic crisis and student loans and such.

 

[Crashman]

Those that mean this will possibly modify the parts for this system?

I don't have a full set of data on the potential performance improvement, but if you believe that two 5870's will outperform two 470's, complete with the Crossfire vs SLI scaling efficiency different, then the 5870's would make a great substitute.

The only information I have is that Chris Angelini's test of the 5970 vs 2x 5870 showed the 5970 was a hair faster, clock-for-clock, but that the 5970 didn't overclock well. And my own test that showed two overclocked 470's beat a 5970 that, because its liquid-cooler addressed the heat issue, did overclock well.

 

[Userremoved]

Yes the GTX470s did beat the 5970 I saw that earlier but if they can make this system even just a hair better that would be great!

 

[builderbobftw]

This is a good rig.

Much better than last months rig wich had a lot of waste and crappy choices.

Great job dude!

THe only changes: Add dual RAID0 X-25v 40gbs, and still stay in budget

Change mobo to AsRock X58 extreme, save a few bucks

Change case to CM 690 II Advanced.

Change GPU to a 5970

Other than that, good job!

 

[notty22]

The Nvidia graphics give this rig superior gaming power.
3D gaming
3D blu ray support
The ATI fanboys that can't tolerate a Nvidia rig get tiring around here.
Get the 3d Vision glasses with the rest of the budget for the next level of gaming and 3D blu ray !
Thats what I'd do.

 

[Onus]

In other words, builderbobftl, change just about everything except the CPU (typically to worse choices), and then it becomes good? ROFL.....

 

[Userremoved]

The Nvidia graphics give this rig superior gaming power.
3D gaming
3D blu ray support
The ATI fanboys that can't tolerate a Nvidia rig get tiring around here.
Get the 3d Vision glasses with the rest of the budget for the next level of gaming and 3D blu ray !
Thats what I'd do.

The point is this is a performance/gaming PC not HTPC or media PC that why I'm talking about ATI since they genrate less heat the CPU and GPU have a little more room for OC.

 

[Userremoved]

This is a good rig.

Much better than last months rig wich had a lot of waste and crappy choices.

Great job dude!

THe only changes: Add dual RAID0 X-25v 40gbs, and still stay in budget

Change mobo to AsRock X58 extreme, save a few bucks

Change case to CM 690 II Advanced.

Change GPU to a 5970

Other than that, good job!

Did you take the time to read the above comments? Crashman said that the two GTX470 beat the 5970 although he sent a message for using two 5870s instead if the builder wants to consider them. Also why a ASrock X58 board over the UDH3R you lose some PCIe slots with the ASrock one.