System Builder Marathon, June 2011: Alternative $2000 PC

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To quote the article: "Case performance comes down to two things: cooling and noise. An exceptionally cool-running case could help overclocking, and thereby allow improved system performance." So your points make me wonder why do this build at all? Not that I'm complaining at a chance to win another decent PC. :)

I think for giggles it would be nice to see what the Noctua NH-D14(since I see you tested it you might have one laying around) does in this and the Lian-Li $2000 PC. Would the CPU running at lower temps help decrease over all case temps? It seems like a decent experiment on par with what this article was about.
 


Where do you think the heat from a cooler-running CPU is being dumped, if not into the case?
 
[citation][nom]flong[/nom]So you would consider the 6 GHZ overclocks of the 2600K to be unstable? Just curious, not making any accusations. I am glad that you are limiting your OC to a point that the CPU will not burn itself up. I agree that a prototype model should be conservative in OC.[/citation]

I would. The chip gradually fails under conditions like that. If you don't mind having the processor fail after about 3 months, go ahead and run it with 1.6-1.8V. However, if you want it to run for longer than a year, keep it below 1.4V. Plain and simple.
 
[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Where do you think the heat from a cooler-running CPU is being dumped, if not into the case?[/citation]That's a little simplistic...
To be exact, we've found that the "best case scenario" is when the case exhaust fan pulls most of the hot air out of the back of the CPU cooler. That works best when the CPU cooler fills most of the space between the video card, side panel, and top panel. In that instance, CPU heat is limited primarily to the space between the CPU fan and rear exhaust fan, with little of it heating the "rest" of the case.
 
[citation][nom]burnley14[/nom]To each his own, but I liked the classy first case more. This one looks bulky and cheap. And the difference in cooling is nearly negligible.[/citation]

But when your GPU upgrade doesn't fit in your case, you'll understand the reason for preferring a bigger case

[citation][nom]Article[/nom]Four grommets ease the installation of external coolers as well.[/citation]

Only three are present.

And yet again, you refuse to even try MSI's afterburner. As TH's members always say, past experience can never prove the future.

[citation][nom]Article[/nom]Our CPU cooling was slightly closer to the limit as a result of using a cheap cooler[/citation]

A cheap cooler, on a $2000 PC that originally had $65 to spare. Interesting.

Also, you didn't mention that the HAF, being bigger than the previous case, will support longer cards than the 6970. Also, don't blame the case design because you had to use a board that separates cards by two slots of space. Don't get me wrong because I totally agree with using such a board.
 
[citation][nom]youssef 2010[/nom]But when your GPU upgrade doesn't fit in your case, you'll understand the reason for preferring a bigger case[/citation]The cards used were part of the plan, this stuff doesn't happen by accident[citation][nom]youssef 2010[/nom]And yet again, you refuse to even try MSI's afterburner.[/citation]Wrong again, read the original article. It didn't work. Oh, the fan maps worked and it did do the other stuff the driver also does, but it did NOT unlock the cards. Not even with the verbose method of altering the configuration file.[nom]youssef 2010[/nom]A cheap cooler, on a $2000 PC that originally had $65 to spare.[/citation]The original PC was at its price limit when purchased, which made this so-called upgrade impossible at that time along with any upgrades to the cooler. This is all mentioned in the original threads.

Three strikes, I think we're done here.
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom] only way a CPU can live at those voltage levels for a reasonable length of time is if you alter its molecular structure by freezing [/citation]
Hi Crashman,
Just wondering - do you actually alter the molecular structure of a CPU by cooling it below -150 Celsius with lN2? For example if you freeze water you don't alter the molecular structure - even at 5 Kelvin its the same - you just change the intermolecular interactions from unstable to rigid stable hydrogen bonds. I'm no expert but isn't a CPU make from Si? I've alway wondered about what cooling actually does in terms of semiconductors especially because at a low enough temp some materials become superconductors. Is the aim of cooling to get rid of excess energy not involved in the intended electrical current that can de-stabilize and degrade the structure of the Si transistors? Equally, can to high a voltage lead to current jumping across circuits that where intended to be closed? Just curious because I don't understand how it all works.
Thanks
 
[citation][nom]nerrawg[/nom]Hi Crashman, Just wondering - do you actually alter the molecular structure of a CPU by cooling it below -150 Celsius with lN2? For example if you freeze water you don't alter the molecular structure - even at 5 Kelvin its the same - you just change the intermolecular interactions from unstable to rigid stable hydrogen bonds. I'm no expert but isn't a CPU make from Si? I've alway wondered about what cooling actually does in terms of semiconductors especially because at a low enough temp some materials become superconductors. Is the aim of cooling to get rid of excess energy not involved in the intended electrical current that can de-stabilize and degrade the structure of the Si transistors? Equally, can to high a voltage lead to current jumping across circuits that where intended to be closed? Just curious because I don't understand how it all works.Thanks[/citation]As far as I know when you freeze things they get smaller. I didn't mean to imply the makeup was different, just the space between things. The real difference that I've seen discussed ad finem is that the close gates become more resistive at lower temperatures, reducing gate leakage, heat production, and assisting in the reduction of electromigration.
 
[citation][nom]clonazepam[/nom]The Haf X is one of the ugliest cases on the market. It reminds me of a cheap '80s b-movie sci-fi flick prop. It's trailer park all the way.[/citation]

I don't want to imply I'm not grateful for these builds (loyal reader of over 10 years). If I won it, I'd replace the case with a Lian Li, Silverstone, or Fractal Designs case... I think. I did get 2 thumbs up, probably from Crashman and Tom lol ;-)
 
[citation][nom]TommyV[/nom]I might be missing something here, but why use sata ii ssd's when Corsair has sata iii's for the same price?[/citation]Aren't those the reduced-die-process version?
 
Was consideration given to downgrading the CPU to an overclockable 2500, and using the extra change to implement a liquid cooling system? With liquid cooling, I would think the overall ambient noise level would be less, you may be able to squeeze more processing headroom out of the unlocked 2500, and maybe even have enough to uptick the video cards. Maybe next time that could be the alternative option .. depending on what new hardware makes an appearance in July. Great articles .. keep up the good work.
 
this is more like something I would build, but I'm a modder. One thing-if these aren't gaming machines then why the two graphics cards and games for testing?
They're obviously gaming machines.
 
[citation][nom]buzznut[/nom]this is more like something I would build, but I'm a modder. One thing-if these aren't gaming machines then why the two graphics cards and games for testing?They're obviously gaming machines.[/citation]LOL, that's like saying a BMW X6 M is "obviously" a sports car because it has a powerful engine.

The $2000 PC has always been the do-everything machine. If it were solely a gaming machine it wouldn't need the Core i7 CPU, extra RAM, extra hard drive, or BD-RE.

But you do make a point about the guys who recommended this case: They're oblivious to the fact that the original machine was not designed as a toy for the teenage children of wealthy families.
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]But you do make a point about the guys who recommended this case: They're oblivious to the fact that the original machine was not designed as a toy for the teenage children of wealthy families.[/citation]

Are you implying that buyers for such chassis have to be spoiled brats?
Before I started making my own chassis I bought a V6000A chassis by thermaltake (for a huge sum of money) and beeploads of color stuff. And my parents are nowhere near rich, in fact they're completely broke.

Bling stuff is for people who like bling stuff. Not just for those who're swimming in money. It just hurts a bit more in the wallet of a poor chan than a rich one.
 
[citation][nom]clonazepam[/nom]I don't want to imply I'm not grateful for these builds (loyal reader of over 10 years). If I won it, I'd replace the case with a Lian Li, Silverstone, or Fractal Designs case... I think. I did get 2 thumbs up, probably from Crashman and Tom lol ;-)[/citation]


I'd go further and not only keep the original case and configuration, but be willing to take nude pictures and pose with the rig. Yeah, It's THAT serious.
 
[citation][nom]neiroatopelcc[/nom]Are you implying that buyers for such chassis have to be spoiled brats? Before I started making my own chassis I bought a V6000A chassis by thermaltake (for a huge sum of money) and beeploads of color stuff. And my parents are nowhere near rich, in fact they're completely broke. Bling stuff is for people who like bling stuff. Not just for those who're swimming in money. It just hurts a bit more in the wallet of a poor chan than a rich one.[/citation]I just can't get past the price...and can't understand how anyone who works for their money could justify it.
 
[citation][nom]burnley14[/nom]To each his own, but I liked the classy first case more. This one looks bulky and cheap. And the difference in cooling is nearly negligible.[/citation]

As an owner of the HAF X, it is not cheap. If you don't like the red led fan in the front, you can turn it off with the switch on the front panel. The build quality is superior to most other cases I've owned and seen. Cable management is great and the overall airflow through the case is great. Oh, you are right about one thing. The case is bulky, which makes a great case to own for upgrading and installing your hardware down the road.
 
I do agree with others here; I feel that an alternative build would constitute several different components rather than just swapping out the case. Yes, the larger size case as well as the 240mm side fan on the HAF X will cool the graphics cards better, but I think I was expecting to see perhaps Nvidia cards, AMD CPU, or single 256gb SSD or some other alteration that would give builders something else to consider when building a new rig.
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]I just can't get past the price...and can't understand how anyone who works for their money could justify it.[/citation]
Sometimes I wonder the same about other things in life, but then I turn around and remember I've got a 1974 Manta and a 1974 Ascona in the garage, eating up money for no reason at all .... so it really all just comes down to what people want from life. If they want cool toys or exciting hardware, or maybe a big useful house or a huge family with 8 kids or whatever. It's a choice someone makes, like most everything.
Anyway, yes it is pricey, but so's the rest of any highend build.
 
[citation][nom]neiroatopelcc[/nom]Sometimes I wonder the same about other things in life, but then I turn around and remember I've got a 1974 Manta and a 1974 Ascona in the garage, eating up money for no reason at all .... so it really all just comes down to what people want from life. If they want cool toys or exciting hardware, or maybe a big useful house or a huge family with 8 kids or whatever. It's a choice someone makes, like most everything. Anyway, yes it is pricey, but so's the rest of any highend build.[/citation]You pay for a faster CPU, etc, always paying for "more". I just don't see the "more" we're getting here :)
 
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