System Builder Marathon, June 2011: Alternative $2000 PC

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[citation][nom]hmp_goose[/nom]If the cards now run cooler, doesn't fallow they will last longer?I guess that sentiment is antithetic to overclocking, but doesn't it count for something?[/citation]
Those cards will be LONG outdated by the time they burn out.


Especially considering the fact that you went through the trouble of using 2x6970. That right there speaks you mean business, and more than likely upgrade cards every 1-2 years.


 
i have said it, and i will say it again, dont use the asrock z68 extreme 4, it have many problem, usb 3 issue, bsod issue, esata issue, just google asrock z68 extreme 4 problem, and you will find hundred if not thousand of user that have problem. and their customer service is a joke
 
Thirty years ago, I might have preferred the looks of the HAF-X, but now that I am older and wiser, the Lian-Li would be my choice. It's simply a much classier case.
I do believe, however, that it might have been useful to test with a better cooler. Since a machine like this probably isn't going to do much (if any) HTPC duty, giving up the Blue-Ray would have paid for it.
And, I'm very happy to see this more "mature" build level devoted not just to gaming.
 
i think previous case is much better for non gaming cpu, especially when you move a lot, haf x full tower steel case is 14KG (31 lbs) not including the psu,drive, and motherboard, and if you really love side panel, you could always make a custom made plexiglass :)
 
This is not an Alternative $2000 build at all! We all know that changing the case is pretty much for aesthetics. I spent some time pricing out a nice build with SLI 580s, better SSDs - an actual alternative build (that would wipe the floor with your original in most scenarios I bet)... and here you write an article about some dude that completely copied your original build? This is more like a HAF X case review...
 
Tom's never uses Nvidia cards anymore. For serious, it's a short step to accuse them of an ATI/AMD bias. It would be nice to see GTX 470 SLI as an alternative; they're slightly cheaper than 6970s. Lest you accuse me of bias or being an Nvidia fanboy, I've got 5850s and 4870s powering my rigs, before that it was 3870x2s. A true alternative could have skipped the SSDs and used that money for GTX 580 SLI. That way we can see the effect of putting the money elsewhere; for those who use Adobe for content creation, that money might be well spent.
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]These systems are built for RELIABLE performance. That means no high voltages. You're only going to get 5.00 GHz or more at excessive voltage levels, and the only way a CPU can live at those voltage levels for a reasonable length of time is if you alter its molecular structure by freezing it.Tom's Harware isn't going to add below-ambient cooling to a SBM PC. And since liquid cooling is always above ambient, the "best" cooler that could be used is not cold enough to justify the voltage increase.[/citation]

The two professional reviews that I read that OC the 2600K to 6 GHZ were air cooled units not water cooled, and not some exotic freon cooling. You have a point about how long an air cooled 6 GHZ CPU would last but that OC did not require exotic cooling.

Look at this article OC and they mention that they had 25 degrees of headroom before they had to worry about "throttling" the CPU.
 
While this wasn't really an 'alternative' build, I'm not going to complain about more giveaways. I also prefer the original case, but variety is good. Now about those international rules...
 
[citation][nom]whysobluepandabear[/nom]This is the same system, with a different case. I would HARDLY constitute this as an "Alternative" build. Do you want a case that looks like The Death StarOr do you want a case that looks like you collect Picasso? At least change the GPU or CPU if you're going to re-brand it as an "Alternative" build. Yeah, I know people are going to flame me and say something like "Well, different case means different build BRO!".[/citation]

Read the story, it's all explained on page one. This is in response to reader feedback, and it gives us one more machine to give away!
 
[citation][nom]pooncakes[/nom]Tom's never uses Nvidia cards anymore. For serious, it's a short step to accuse them of an ATI/AMD bias. It would be nice to see GTX 470 SLI as an alternative; they're slightly cheaper than 6970s. Lest you accuse me of bias or being an Nvidia fanboy, I've got 5850s and 4870s powering my rigs, before that it was 3870x2s. A true alternative could have skipped the SSDs and used that money for GTX 580 SLI. That way we can see the effect of putting the money elsewhere; for those who use Adobe for content creation, that money might be well spent.[/citation]

The SBM machines are all about builder preference, and where each thinks he can get the most value.
 
I'd like to see a more exotic attempt with the second build. Maybe drop the SSD and use a cheaper processor in exchange for quad SLI or crossfire. Or maybe try and squeeze a dual CPU build under-budget. It would just be nice to see something drastically different as an experiment.
 
Thank you guys for doing this - I was also curious about the HAF X. How was ease of build compared to the Lian LI?

Also, a suggestion for next time: I've had my eye on the Silverstone FT02 Fortress... perhaps you can tell us a little bit about it.
 
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom]Read the story, it's all explained on page one. This is in response to reader feedback, and it gives us one more machine to give away![/citation]
Well, I mean, if you want to toss it my way - then by all means.


I'm actually out of complaints. Just throw it my way. Ha.
 
I'm glad you built a second $2000 pc to give away, but as the original $2000 pc article pointed out the heatsink was not what you would have liked. So you changed the case and left the sub/par heatsink. Although I agree with the new case, a replacement heatsink would have been my first choice.
 
You can find out all about the FT02 in its review :)


No problems with this sink. We haven't seen a noticeable difference in Sandy Bridge overclocking that can be attributed to the sink. Either it's good enough (which this one was) or it isn't.

The only way a larger air cooling sink would help overclocking would be to allow more voltage. Here's a hint:

WE'RE ARE NOT GOING TO USE MORE VOLTAGE Period. More voltage increases the risk of failure, and we're trying to build a machine that will be stable for at least a year.

So, if we're not using more voltage, why do we need a bigger heat sink?
 
I got my HAF 932 sitting beside me, between my desk and my GF's desk (i.e. depends on upper and frontal vents cause both sides are blocked) and it's a humming bird (not annoying, but you know it's there). My point: despite the looks of the LL (not my taste, really), you cannot deny the effectiveness of the HAF-X in the cooling department. 25ºC is quite a lot for thermal difference but it goes like it's not a big deal. That's kinda unfair IMO.

I understand these are "all rounder" builds, but for people that games and does heavy load on their PCs (gamers, pro-3D users, heavy programmers/coders), the HAF DOES, in fact, come as a better buy all the way.

It is quite remarkable that you guys made an alternate 2k build to show us that and, personally, I'm very grateful for that. Keep up the good work TH!

Oh, and I still consider the BD-RW purchase as a superfluous one... You guys could get rid of 'em for good, since USB sticks and external drives are bootable and getting in a better $/GB class than BD's. Hell, the HAF 932 (and the X) has a front eSATA; pair that with the TT BlackX (http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Products.aspx?S=1268) and you have one serious upgrade on storage.

Cheers!
 
[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom] We haven't seen a noticeable difference in Sandy Bridge overclocking that can be attributed to the sink. Either it's good enough (which this one was) or it isn't.[/citation]

Forgive my memory, I misread the original $2000 article, which stated the 212+ was out of stock, and that you found a cooler that had similar performance for the best price.
 
Thanks for the review. I do think that the HAF X is the better case but then, it also costs more and its looks are not as conservative. The very fact that the Lian Li has to be "jury rigged" at electrical connections is disappointing enough to me to choose the HAF X.

Please consider the Corsair 650D for your next high-end build. This case rocks.
 
"WE'RE ARE NOT GOING TO USE MORE VOLTAGE Period. More voltage increases the risk of failure, and we're trying to build a machine that will be stable for at least a year."

So you would consider the 6 GHZ overclocks of the 2600K to be unstable? Just curious, not making any accusations. I am glad that you are limiting your OC to a point that the CPU will not burn itself up. I agree that a prototype model should be conservative in OC.
 
The original article said that the cooler used was BETTER than the Hyper 212+

1.) Similar performance
2.) Lower Cost

1+2= 3.) Better Value :)

I would not likely pick the Hyper 212+ for ANY build right now because the Gaia offers similar performance at a lower price, and the Mugen 2 B offers better performance at a similar price. So the only rational choice was between the Mugen 2 B and the Gaia, where it was determined that the Gaia was good enough.


It looks nice but the price is "whack". Both it and the HAF X are che...(cough)...mainstream chassis with added features. Neither one is higher quality than the Antec Three Hundred, and I hate paying that large a premium for stuff I'm probably not going to use. At least the Lian-Li looked nice...

Actually, the threaded holes in the Three Hundred are more strip-resistant than those of the HAF-X, but I believe this is a manufacturing process issue rather than a quality of materials issue.

Corsair gets the nod for the side panel latches, though I've seen those on $80 office-PC cases from the mid 1990s.

 
[citation][nom]flong[/nom]The two professional reviews that I read that OC the 2600K to 6 GHZ were air cooled units not water cooled, and not some exotic freon cooling. You have a point about how long an air cooled 6 GHZ CPU would last but that OC did not require exotic cooling.Look at this article OC and they mention that they had 25 degrees of headroom before they had to worry about "throttling" the CPU.[/citation]


You can set when a Sandy Bridge starts throttling with Turbo-boost by manually setting its maximum allowable short and long term TDPs. That said, Intel's never exceed voltage for the chip is around 1.38V (look familiar?), so it seems Tom's has done a reasonably good job of getting the maximum sustainable performance out of the chip. Frankly, I'd be a little uncomfortable even using 1.38V for several years' time, but maybe I'm paranoid.
 
dalethepcman wrote :

Forgive my memory, I misread the original $2000 article, which stated the 212+ was out of stock, and that you found a cooler that had similar performance for the best price.

The original article said that the cooler used was BETTER than the Hyper 212+

1.) Similar performance
2.) Lower Cost

1+2= 3.) Better Value :)

I would not likely pick the Hyper 212+ for ANY build right now because the Gaia offers similar performance at a lower price, and the Mugen 2 B offers better performance at a similar price. So the only rational choice was between the Mugen 2 B and the Gaia, where it was determined that the Gaia was good enough.

Newegg seems to be the ONLY place selling the Hyper 212+ for 50 bucks. I can find them in several places (eWiz, Amazon...) for 30-32. I don't believe the Gaia performs as well as the H212+; similar, maybe. As well, no. (and does Gaia come with a clip for a 2nd fan, as the H212+ does?)

Granted, for the relatively conservative overclock used for this build, a Freezer 7 Pro might be good enough. (nice cooler, but small)

I understand that you're partners with Newegg for the SBM series, but PLEASE don't make it sound like their prices are the be-all and end-all. I love Newegg--but I buy from other vendors when they beat the Egg on value, as both eWiz and Amazon do with some frequency.

 
That's parallel reasoning to why I now use 1.35V to test O/C capability of motherboards. I actually had a CPU go "poof" during a reboot when it was set to only 1.385V, and I have a hard time getting replacement CPUs.

CPUs and hard drives...everything else is easy.
 
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