System Builder Marathon: Low Cost System

[Crashman]

$837 is ridiculous for a budget system, as just about any reader here knows. The following rig totals $252.36 and might overclock as high as 328x11=3.6 GHz.

E2200 2.2GHz 800MHz 1MB LGA775 CPU, OEM
$78.19 http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=E2200&c=fr&pid=2a7118e4193221b92023ce623ccc1a116cd7d3c9fedae22dff5f29171aaaa959

Biostar P4M890-M7 TE Core 2 Duo/ P4M890/ DDR2-533/ A&V&L/ MATX 2xATA133 2xSATA
$37.08 http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB-890M7TE&c=fr&pid=2a7118e4193221b92023ce623ccc1a116cd7d3c9fedae22dff5f29171aaaa959
(see http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=2055&page=4 for overclock)

WINTEC AMPX 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2-800
$19.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161028

Broadway Com Corp 808PA-BKGY Black/ Gray Steel ATX Mid Tower 450W
$29.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811162040

Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600AAJS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
$47.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136075

Sony NEC Optiarc Black 20X IDE DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X
$12.15 http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=CDU5225-10&c=fr&pid=2a7118e4193221b92023ce623ccc1a116cd7d3c9fedae22dff5f29171aaaa959

Rosewill RCX-Z775-LX 92mm Ball CPU Cooler - Retail
$14.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200035

ARCTIC COOLING Arctic Fan 8 (AF8) 80mm Case Fan - Retail (rear exhaust)
$5.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186006

ARCTIC COOLING Arctic Fan 8 (AF8) 80mm Case Fan - Retail (in lower 2 DVD bays for front intake)
$5.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186006

If you are a gamer, you could add this vid card (recommended by Toms) bringing the total to $327.35, a full $500 cheaper than Toms "budget build" and probably performing pretty closely for most uses.

SAPPHIRE 100208L Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
$74.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102700

Eh? A worthless motherboard-case-power supply, only one gig of RAM...you have a few decent components in there but to makes a real system of it you'd be well over $600.

Considering a few of the parts you listed, I'd do better grabbing something out of the dumpster of the local PC shop.

 

[oushi]

I have to concur with lowering the price ranges. Spending $837 just doesn't seem to be a "low budget" machine when you can get a E8400/Q6600 system with a 8800GT at around the same price without much shopping, which is more what I imagine to be a mid-range PC. The 650/1300/2600 price marks sound like a better cut-off.

I think the processor choice is fine if you're planning to go Phenom 9500, Q6600, and QX9650 like I think you are. However, the article should then make it clear that the builds are catered towards building a quad system, which would make most everyone's complaints about the Phenom moot.

As far as the 500GB HDD... I don't think anybody is arguing that the upgrade isn't worth the money. The issue is that in a true budget build, the money might be better spent elsewhere in the system. Changing the price points would help to address that problem.

 

[dacman61]

Here's what I come up with for a cheap Quad-Core system after some rebates:

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All
Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard - Retail $97

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775
Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail $255

G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
(PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail $60

HIS Hightech H387QS512NP Radeon HD 3870 512MB 256-bit
GDDR4 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire
Supported IceQ3 Video Card - Retail $175

HITACHI Deskstar T7K500 HDT725050VLA360 (0A33437)
500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM $90

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner With 12X DVD-RAM Write
Black SATA Model LH-20A1S OEM BK - OEM $33

Antec Sonata III 500 Black 0.8mm cold rolled steel
ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500W Power Supply - Retail $100
-------------------------------------------------------------
Total $810

 

[Noya]

For the record: all the hardware was requested for the article.

Requested ?

What you mean is that Toms is payed to push this absolutely ridiculous build by the suppliers.


One more gripe, you have a quad and a single HDD, while quads need at least two hard drives (read/write) to perform well with tasks they're suited to (editing, 3D creation, etc.).

 

[aeurix]

It's hard to say what the best build is for the cost. I would suggest it depends largely on how long your build window is... I spent the last 2 months sniping deals on newegg/woot/tigerdirect and it pays to wait it out. If you need the parts all at once I think you loose at least $200 by not shopping around and holding out for a good deal.

That said, I think the build is pretty good-- Quad/Dual/single will always be debatable, but it takes a pair to choose your side and make a build list when you know you'll be burned at the stake for it. I respect that. However, speaking from experience, you should really include a monitor (as others have pointed out)-- even a 17" junker for $150 really bumps up the bar.

For future builds I agree with the others mostly. I think there should be three builds centered around gaming: Cheap (~600, with monitor), Mid-range (~1500 with monitor), and extreme (~3000 with monitor[24"-26"]). It would be nice to see some raid 0, even with the cheapie build

-Aeurix

 

[Noya]

3rd This time i'll say it like this
I wish more people would ask for another 500 budget gaming rig article(actual gaming article) rather than harrass them about how they spent too much money here.

And do you think they'll listen?

Get real. This website is about making money through advertisements and payed for by sponsor articles pushing inferior products. They're not going to make a great $500-600 budget build with the BEST parts for the money because that encourages readers to spend less money.

 

[JeanLuc]

It's time to build a new low-cost system, and we build, overclock and test the best PC we can for under $1000. Next we do mid-range and higher-cost systems. Then we compare them and look at price performance. Stay with us all week.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/03/24/system_builder_marathon/index.html

Perhaps you should read some of your own stories regarding AMD’s quad core chip? There is just the small matter of current AMD quad CPU’s not being able to utilise all of its cores (I believe the new stepping isn’t available yet). Had you been aware of this I’m guessing you wouldn’t have chosen the CPU that you did.

Is a PC costing $849 considered to be low cost?

 

[zenmaster]

I will say I don't understand criticizing the 500 GB hard disk in the low-cost system.

Who really thinks it's not worth spending the extra 50 dollars to almost triple the hard disk space from 160 to 500 GB?

Seriously. The financial impact is almost nil, but who among us wouldn't use the extra space?

There's a point at which you can be too frugal.

I think the discussion has degraded into a "How Low Can You Go".
I'm partially at fault for focusing more on the Title than the stated budget.

The Issue is that I don't think a $1000 budget equates to a "Low Budget" system in todays current market.
(Again, This is COMPLETELY subjective based. Everyone has a different Mental Value of what this would be.)
As a result people are focusing more on the "Low Budget" part and not the $1000 Budget Part.

Frequently when truly building a Low Budget System, you really are forced to make tough choices and trade offs.
Do I want to spend that extra $30 on the Larger HDD, Next Stepped up CPU, the Next Up GPU, do I want to upgrade to the SLI Mobo for upgradeability, do I want the better PSU to allow for expansion, etc... etcc. etc...

Regardless of what you will build you will get 100x more complaints than kudos since what everyone views as ideal varies so much. However, I would just say that I think giving the Article a Title such as the $1000 Build/$1500Build/$2500Build etc... would at least help focus the critique.

I have Less issue with the listed build if it was a $850 Build than I do for a "Budget" Build or a $1000 build.
With $150 or so on the Table there are definitely things that are upgadeable that I would buy.
If I was on what I consider a "low" Budget, there definitely are extravagences that can be trimmed.

 

[jflongo]

Those of you with opinons as to the costs, how about the following tiers for the next SBM:

low-cost: $650
mid-range: $1300
high-end: $2600

Also, did you want us to do a dedicated gaming build next time? Or an all-round build?

thoughts and comments appreciated gents...

You don't need to spend $2600 for high end. I just built a machine 6 months ago for $1300. I just recently added another 4GB of memory for under $100.

So for less than $1400 I have a AMD X2 6000+, Nvidia 8800 GTS, 8GB of Memory, etc, etc, etc. Those are old prices now too, since it was more than 6 months ago.

I promise you for $1500 I could build a high-end machine

 

[hypermagic]

Motherboard: Awesome
Processor: Okay
Ram: Good (Adatas would have been cool too)
PSU: Crap
Case: Lame
GPU: Not that great considering the prices of other 3870's


What I'd do:

Asus M3A78-EMH = 94.99
Antec Sonata III + Earthwatts 500w = 129.95
Phenom 9500 = 189.99
ADATA 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 = 42.99
Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB= 109.99
Lite-On DVD burner= 32.99

That's 600.90 before Rebates. Throw in the cheapest 3870 and you've got 775.89. You could go even lower by getting a 8800GS or 3850 or something.

 

[jevon]

Frequently when truly building a Low Budget System, you really are forced to make tough choices and trade offs. Do I want to spend that extra $30 on the Larger HDD, Next Stepped up CPU, the Next Up GPU, do I want to upgrade to the SLI Mobo for upgradeability, do I want the better PSU to allow for expansion, etc... etcc. etc...

Sorry Cleeve, I should have been more clear when I was mentionnig the 500gb HDD. Zenmaster said it much better! While he also makes a good point about the thread sort of heading in the direction of getting to the lowest costs possible, that's the point of a true budget build. Saving $30 and getting a 320gb HDD I think is a pretty easy decision for someone on a budget; I know I'm on a budget, I can just delete older games/apps/movies or burn them to create extra space I get close to using up the 320GB. Save another $20-30 buy not getting an overlocked video card and there's $50 off the total cost. Not too bad for the 'inconvenience' of only having a 320gb hard drive and having to OC the vid card yourself (if you wanted to)

 

[cleeve]

What would you guys think about eliminating the price points entirely?

For the low end, we might simply make the cheapest machine we can make that does a good job; we'll make the mid-range PC and call the next tier a 'high-end' box, as that's what most people seem to think our mid-range box is.

And for the fun of it, we'll make a 'dream-pc' instead of what used to be our high-end box with no price restrictions whatsoever?

 

[A_Dying_Wren]

Nah... that would be impractical. the "cheapest machine" u could make would be well below what most people who browse this forum want. (P4s anyone?) your mid-range would be interesting. the "dream pc" would simultaneously be wayyy too expensive and already fairly obvious (i.e. skulltrail or striker II extreme or the evga 790i mobo + QX9770 + SLI 9800GX2 + 1200W psu + phase cooling)

I'd say do a
$500
$1000
$1500
$2000
$2500
$9999
if possible. you don't necessarily need to benchmark them all. just the interesting ones

 

[jevon]

I think it could work as long as "does a good job" is reasonable, taking into consideration the resolution and screen size that such a person would be using.

Maybe setting soft budget tagets along the lines of $500-$600ish, $1000-$1200ish, $2000ish, and dreamish would work and would give you the opportunity to throw in other component otions/recommendations if someone wanted to slightly +/- within the range. The ranges don't have to be anything official, just something you could mention that you were sort of shooting for with performance value in mind.

 

[cleeve]

Nah... that would be impractical. the "cheapest machine" u could make would be well below what most people who browse this forum want. (P4s anyone?)

No no... I said 'cheapest machine we can make that does a good job'. Implying that I look for the cheapest CPU/mobo/components that offer decent performance. Price would probably be in the $600 neighborhood. The point is, we're not bound by price: if a $20 bump in price gives us a colossal incease in performance for a specific component, we're not restricted against it: conversely, we don't try to 'build up' to our price point simply because we have room left.

 

[patchez]

THG's Claim:
"Because a cheap quad core CPU (9500) is ideal for some tasks, and should even soundly beat the E6750 in specific multithreaded applications." -page 2

I'm not sure what THG has in hardware lying around, i think it would be better if you could compare some of the hardware lying around.

ie. compare cpu benchmarks of your phenom 9500 + mobo, and a E2xxx +mobo lying around (everything else leave the same)

this way, it can give (or take) support away from the choice of using 4 cores or using the phenom. it's a way of justifying your choice and ideas.

If for example the E2xxx has a better price/performance, than it can become the "hardware config" to beat. So try a different CPU to better it.

everyone here is claiming this and that about their personal builds, and i'm not saying that they aren't better... but we need proof!

I know some ppl are going to say look at all the benchies THG or others have done on each individual hardware, then why do they keep benching these new systems? why not just look at the benchies are figure out the best possible configuration? this should be a starting point for sure, but each config performs differently. (ie. cpu vs gpu bottleneck)

BTW, i can't disagree with the article written on the low cost system. sure the config seems reasonable, but is it really the best (or even a GOOD) configuration for the price? (i say pepsi is good! so what?!?!?!? i'm not saying it's was better than coke or root beer. similarily, THG article says config is good = so WHAT?!?!?!?)

Again, just remember in science, you can never prove anything, just disprove it. and that's why many ppl have been trying to do on these forums.

PS. I think $500 for a low cost system would be much better (no OS)

 

[zenmaster]

What would you guys think about eliminating the price points entirely?

For the low end, we might simply make the cheapest machine we can make that does a good job; we'll make the mid-range PC and call the next tier a 'high-end' box, as that's what most people seem to think our mid-range box is.

And for the fun of it, we'll make a 'dream-pc' instead of what used to be our high-end box with no price restrictions whatsoever?

I think a Base Model along with possible upgrades could be useful.
It might give folks an idea of how to do stuff.

Example - On the "Low End System": The case may not have the Best Cooling, the Mobo likely will not support CF/SLI, and the PSU most likely could not handle Somethink like a 9800X2. If you started stuffing 4HDDs, a massivley OC'd Quad, and even did try to put a thermal nuclear GPU in there, the heat would get to it due to lack of cooling and space between components. But we could list reasonable upgrades. The Base Model would likely be something like an X2-5000+ and/or a E2160. Perhaps List Both to avoid Flame Wars. Then mention possible upgrades to CPUs with More cache. Mentin GPUs that might run off an more entry level but quality PSU w/o burning down the house.

The Next System would likely have a better case/psue that had more space/airflow and the power to run more.
It's potential would be less limited. We would likely not stock them with SLI but a good single card with the room and space to grow. Entry Level Quads might be a good spot here too.

Clearly the High End would have better Quads - This may mean something like a Q9550 or Q9650.
The PSU would need to be able to SLI two Hungry GPUs such as a Pair of 3870x2s even if we could not fix two into our budget. The 2nd could be listed as optional.

Our Dream Machine would be a Dream - Some of the Blazing SSDs we are reading about. Mayboe other stuff.

Where would something like a RAID 10 with a Nice Controller Card Fit? Maybe the Dream Machine since you may not have stuff to test a system With Mirrored Striped Arrays for Max Performance w/ fault tolerance.

I'm just sort of thinking and typing while working so I'm sure I've not covered all my thoughts properly.

 

[retro77]

I actually read the article, not like most of these @$$ hats.

I'm going to base my next build off of the same mobo [Newegg is sold out ATM] but going with a 5000+BE for the CPU. Later I can add a PCIe video card and a Phenom. I like the hybrid crossfire idea. With more BIOS updates it'll only get better.

 

[MisterChef]

This is a low cost PC...

1 Athena Power CA-1000B48 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower PC Computer Case ATX 480W PS2 V.2.2 PSU Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16811192052
$41.99

1 Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822148288
$109.99

1 Open Box: SAPPHIRE PE-AM2RS690MH AM2 AMD 690G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
Item #: N82E16813154014R
$39.99

1 Open Box: SAPPHIRE 100176L Radeon X1950PRO 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card
Item #: N82E16814102061R
$88.99

1 CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail
Item #: N82E16820145034
$69.00 w/ $40.00 Mail-in Rebate


1 AMD LE-1640 Orleans 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W Single-Core Processor Model ADH1640DHBOX - Retail
Item #: N82E16819103239
$55.99

Subtotal: $405.95

UPS Guaranteed 3 Day Service: $28.16

Grand Total: $434.11

$394.11 after rebate! And there's really still room to cut corners if you are willing to settle for a smaller hard drive and a cheaper case...

Very tempted to just buy this crap and build it even though I really don't have any cash at all to spare right now. Heck, I have a spare 80Gb hard drive just laying around that I could use... Hrm...

EDIT: Ah, I left off a cheap DVD RW drive so add something like $30 to the above... puts me over $400 which was something of a psychological price barrier for me but c'est la vie!

 

[cleeve]

Requested ?

What you mean is that Toms is payed to push this absolutely ridiculous build by the suppliers.

No, I mean we spec'd out the system and requested the manufacurers to provide us with the components after we chose them.

How the hell are we payed any less or more based on what we've spec'd out?

Try thinking through your conspiracy theory accusations before posting them next time...

 

[jflongo]

I actually read the article, not like most of these @$$ hats.

I'm going to base my next build off of the same mobo [Newegg is sold out ATM] but going with a 5000+BE for the CPU. Later I can add a PCIe video card and a Phenom. I like the hybrid crossfire idea. With more BIOS updates it'll only get better.

Just build a machine for my bro-in-law, we used a 5000+BE, and OC'd to a 6000+ easily. We haven't tried harder yet, but we set the muliplier to 15, it booted up fine and runs great, and is still cool. Definitely saves your about $20 - $40 after buying a heatsink.

 

[sojrner]

See where I am going with this. You can have numerous categories and I don't think Tom's has the time to do all of these. So they do a review of a system and you read it and learn from it and it is what it is and nothing more. Then you being of free mind and will go out and build your own system the way you want to.

Well said, very well said.

This website is about making money...

ya, they are a company that needs to pay its staff so it can stay in business and turn a profit. duh. What company is not? It does not make them any less credible. Any site with ads on it is trying to make a buck. Some are just trying to pay for keeping the site up, some are trying to make a living at it... but all are after the frogskins, period.

An electrician is after your dead presidents too, does that mean you can't trust him to do a good job and re-wire your home just b/c he requires some lettuce?

wow, just take off the tin-foil hat and breathe man... lol.

No no... I said 'cheapest machine we can make that does a good job'. Implying that I look for the cheapest CPU/mobo/components that offer decent performance. Price would probably be in the $600 neighborhood. The point is, we're not bound by price: if a $20 bump in price gives us a colossal incease in performance for a specific component, we're not restricted against it: conversely, we don't try to 'build up' to our price point simply because we have room left.

sounds like a good idea man. I like it. Might get some off your back on the naming and such... of course you wont please everyone but it seems a solid idea.

 

[cleeve]

Perhaps you should read some of your own stories regarding AMD’s quad core chip? There is just the small matter of current AMD quad CPU’s not being able to utilise all of its cores (I believe the new stepping isn’t available yet).

The new B3 stepping should fix the TLB Erratum, not enable any more cores....

I hadn't heard that Phenom's aren't utilizing all four cores before. I'd be interested in reading any info you have to the contrary...

 

[aylafan]

here's what i was thinking for a low budget system, but i did like how you went the AMD phenom route. different than seeing intel builds all the time.

E2200 = $84.99 (can get E2180 or lower E2XXX to save money)
GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L $89.99
EVGA GeForce 9600GT $169.99 (so much better than the HD3870, lifetime limited warranty with EVGA)
G.SKILL 2GB DDR2 800 $44
Seagate 500GB SATA 3.0Gb/s 32MB cache Hard Drive $109.99 (this 500GB HD has 32MB cache. can get a lower capacity HD to save money.)
SAMSUNG 20X DVD±R DVD SATA $29.99 (can get a cheaper dvd burner to save money)
COOLER MASTER RC-690-KKN1-GP Computer Case $79.99 (can get a cheaper case to save money)
CORSAIR CMPSU-550VX 550W Power Supply $94.99 (price/performance PSU. hard to beat 41A on a single 12V+ rail. you can get the Corsair 450VX 450W PSU to save money. 550VX can be found for as low as $64.99 with rebates.)

Total Cost: $701.92

you can definitely make a cheaper system than what i have with great performance. this is just what i thought would be optimal for the low budget gamer.

 

[Shadow703793]

^Agreed. Smiler to mine i posted before, and good quality parts.

@Everyone: Do NOT just focus on the BUDGET! You should also focus on the QUALITY. For example MisterChef's build has a low quality PSU and open box items(open box items do not contain CD, cables,etc) .