metro_2020
Distinguished
- Aug 1, 2011
- 23
- 0
- 18,510
- Status
vmem
Splendid
- Feb 17, 2012
- 3,133
- 6
- 21,465
I love the idea of this build overall, especially trying to push CPU limits with the 3930k instead of the usual 2500k or 2600k
but I have to ask, why the msi r7970 in particular? there're tons of other factory oced 7970s out-there, most notably the XFX dual-fan and the sapphire dual-x editions, both of which are cheaper than the $590 you paid for that GPU... at that price, you can even get a msi-lightning now (though I know it was only released a few days ago)
but I have to ask, why the msi r7970 in particular? there're tons of other factory oced 7970s out-there, most notably the XFX dual-fan and the sapphire dual-x editions, both of which are cheaper than the $590 you paid for that GPU... at that price, you can even get a msi-lightning now (though I know it was only released a few days ago)
that can't be right? 120fps with that on battlefield 3?
Even with 2x 7970 it's hard to get average of 120fps on 1920x1080.
Having hard time to believe that just one oc'd version could be better.
Even with 2x 7970 it's hard to get average of 120fps on 1920x1080.
Having hard time to believe that just one oc'd version could be better.
RedJaron
Splendid
- Sep 20, 2011
- 4,225
- 0
- 23,160
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
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[citation][nom]mkw34[/nom]Why not stick with a 2500k and crossfired 7950? Frequency still beats core count in gaming and the 2500k has higher ips than 3930k.[/citation]
I'm going to assume by IPS you meant IPC in which case you are wrong because SB-E has slightly higher IPC than SB (more cache, more memory bandwidth; it helps a little, but not a lot) Also, the 3930K is something like twice as fast as the 2500K in highly threaded work. This build is intended for a professional envirnment, or at least for professional work. It should be able to get great gaming performance without sacrificing the more important productivity performance and that it has excelled at. My only complaint is that it has a single 7970 instead of dual 7870s or 7950s and that complaint is nullified by AMD's GCN Crossfire driver situation, so there's little that Tom's could have done anyway and it's not their fault.
Also, the 3930K in this system is overclocked just as far as a 2500K would be, so frequency is another null point. You're a failure at being a gamer just as much as reading the article to know the whole point of this machine. Considering the many times that people with the same stupid ponit of view as you have been told why this is as it is, you should be ashamed of your self for spouting your stupidity instead of learning from the stupid mistakes that so many other commenters made.
[citation][nom]MMO fan[/nom]Um putting a brand NEW $550+ Top of the line Flagship GPU in the form of "Radeon HD 7970" put's any build into the catagory of hardcore gaming build and if someone bought this GPU with out gamning in mind needs there head checked.[/citation]
The 7970 is a great compute card that puts all other consumer cards to shame. Considering the price of high performing professional cards, it's an excellent option for non-gaming work. STFU and GTFO if you can't see past your ignorance; perhaps it's your head that should be checked.
Also, I'm getting kind of sick of seeing video cards being referred to as GPUs by people trying to sound smart. A video card is NOT a GPU and the 7970 is NOT a GPU; it's a video card. A GPU is a specific part of a video card. For example, the 7970 and 7950 have the Tahiti GPU. The 6950 and the 6970 have the Cayman GPU. The GTX 580 and 570 have the GF110 GPU. I could go on and so could a lot of other people here on the forums. "Video card" and "GPU" are not synonyms and they should not be considered as such. We certainly don't refer to the motherboard when it has a CPU and RAM on it as the CPU because the two are not the same; the CPU is part of the computer, so why do some people do it with video cards and GPUs?
[citation][nom]mkw34[/nom]i did read it. I was asking to see it any other forum members had any input to share why the SB-E was a better choice.[/citation]
SB-E i7s are obviously better than SB i7s for a productivity/performance machine if they have far more of the same architecture cores, far more cache, and far more memory bandwidth (granted, those last two probably don't make huge differences, but they do help). Tom's wanted a PC with more productivity performance so they chose a faster CPU. I don't see why it's a hard concept nor why you need someone else to reply to you and explain it after so many people have explained the same thing to other people.
I'm going to assume by IPS you meant IPC in which case you are wrong because SB-E has slightly higher IPC than SB (more cache, more memory bandwidth; it helps a little, but not a lot) Also, the 3930K is something like twice as fast as the 2500K in highly threaded work. This build is intended for a professional envirnment, or at least for professional work. It should be able to get great gaming performance without sacrificing the more important productivity performance and that it has excelled at. My only complaint is that it has a single 7970 instead of dual 7870s or 7950s and that complaint is nullified by AMD's GCN Crossfire driver situation, so there's little that Tom's could have done anyway and it's not their fault.
Also, the 3930K in this system is overclocked just as far as a 2500K would be, so frequency is another null point. You're a failure at being a gamer just as much as reading the article to know the whole point of this machine. Considering the many times that people with the same stupid ponit of view as you have been told why this is as it is, you should be ashamed of your self for spouting your stupidity instead of learning from the stupid mistakes that so many other commenters made.
[citation][nom]MMO fan[/nom]Um putting a brand NEW $550+ Top of the line Flagship GPU in the form of "Radeon HD 7970" put's any build into the catagory of hardcore gaming build and if someone bought this GPU with out gamning in mind needs there head checked.[/citation]
The 7970 is a great compute card that puts all other consumer cards to shame. Considering the price of high performing professional cards, it's an excellent option for non-gaming work. STFU and GTFO if you can't see past your ignorance; perhaps it's your head that should be checked.
Also, I'm getting kind of sick of seeing video cards being referred to as GPUs by people trying to sound smart. A video card is NOT a GPU and the 7970 is NOT a GPU; it's a video card. A GPU is a specific part of a video card. For example, the 7970 and 7950 have the Tahiti GPU. The 6950 and the 6970 have the Cayman GPU. The GTX 580 and 570 have the GF110 GPU. I could go on and so could a lot of other people here on the forums. "Video card" and "GPU" are not synonyms and they should not be considered as such. We certainly don't refer to the motherboard when it has a CPU and RAM on it as the CPU because the two are not the same; the CPU is part of the computer, so why do some people do it with video cards and GPUs?
[citation][nom]mkw34[/nom]i did read it. I was asking to see it any other forum members had any input to share why the SB-E was a better choice.[/citation]
SB-E i7s are obviously better than SB i7s for a productivity/performance machine if they have far more of the same architecture cores, far more cache, and far more memory bandwidth (granted, those last two probably don't make huge differences, but they do help). Tom's wanted a PC with more productivity performance so they chose a faster CPU. I don't see why it's a hard concept nor why you need someone else to reply to you and explain it after so many people have explained the same thing to other people.
- Dec 31, 2007
- 48,582
- 92
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[citation][nom]vmem[/nom]why the msi r7970 in particular? there're tons of other factory oced 7970s out-there, most notably the XFX dual-fan and the sapphire dual-x editions, both of which are cheaper than the $590 you paid for that GPU... at that price, you can even get a msi-lightning now (though I know it was only released a few days ago)[/citation]It had a good price on the day it was ordered, because the cards it competed against were more expensive and have since come down in price.
silverblue
Distinguished
- Jul 22, 2009
- 1,199
- 4
- 19,285
[citation][nom]RedJaron[/nom]If they wanted monster gaming performance, why not drop in a 590 since they're faster and cheaper than a 7970?[/citation]
Cheaper? Since when?
Cheaper? Since when?
terry4536
Glorious
- Mar 28, 2010
- 9,741
- 6
- 46,265
[citation][nom]silverblue[/nom]I see what you did there.To be honest, for those people out there looking for a gaming machine with tons of power for other tasks, this is actually pretty good, and you don't necessarily have to rejiggle the build for SLi or Crossfire as a single card of this class is plenty for most things... and will cause you less hassle than a multi-card setup might present. Of course, if they'd done the build this week they'd have considered the 680, but we've flogged the dead horse long enough on that one.It's a good machine... I just can't enter the competition.[/citation]
I have a few of those "wish list" builds as well. I wanted to know how much the SB-E CPU would raise the budget.
I really like the Antec P280 case in this build. It looks classy.
I have a few of those "wish list" builds as well. I wanted to know how much the SB-E CPU would raise the budget.
I really like the Antec P280 case in this build. It looks classy.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
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[citation][nom]BSMonitor[/nom]Forget the Hex:Intel Core i7-3820 Sandy Bridge-E 3.6GHzASRock X79 Extreme4 LGA 2011 Intel X79$505 comboG.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) x2$180GeForce GTX 680 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 x 2$999.98[/citation]
[citation][nom]BSMonitor[/nom]I lied,G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8Q-8GBZH$74.99 x 2[/citation]
Getting the 3820 completely defies the point of a SB-E build that is to have six SB cores for more CPU performance. This is not a gaming machine. It is a performance/workhorse machine that can also game with high quality/resolutions in the off time. Also, the GTX 680 wasn't out when the system builder marathon was done and the machines were tested. The 680 still has nearly zero availability, so it's still barely more than a paper launch anyway. You want the best single GPU card available? Well unfortunately, that's still the 7970 until the stock of 680s increases substantially. Like when the 7970 first came out, availability was fairly low and the 680 is going to sell out within hours of every restock if it doesn't get a huge restock. Besides that, at the resolutions, quality settings, and AA that you would play at with two 680s, 2GB of memory per card may become a problem for some games anyway.
Also, you have what seems to be a typo in your second post where you said
[citation][nom]BSMonitor[/nom]I lied,G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 8GB (4 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL8Q-8GBZH$74.99 x 2[/citation]
Getting the 3820 completely defies the point of a SB-E build that is to have six SB cores for more CPU performance. This is not a gaming machine. It is a performance/workhorse machine that can also game with high quality/resolutions in the off time. Also, the GTX 680 wasn't out when the system builder marathon was done and the machines were tested. The 680 still has nearly zero availability, so it's still barely more than a paper launch anyway. You want the best single GPU card available? Well unfortunately, that's still the 7970 until the stock of 680s increases substantially. Like when the 7970 first came out, availability was fairly low and the 680 is going to sell out within hours of every restock if it doesn't get a huge restock. Besides that, at the resolutions, quality settings, and AA that you would play at with two 680s, 2GB of memory per card may become a problem for some games anyway.
Also, you have what seems to be a typo in your second post where you said
I assume that was supposed to say (4x4GB) instead of (4x2GB) because two 4x2GB kits would be kinda stupid, your previous post had (4x4GB), and $74.99 is a 16GB kit price for modules of that performance.
mindbreaker
Distinguished
- Jul 26, 2010
- 35
- 1
- 18,530
An improvement: Make a water cooled system that really removes heat. My system is less than 25C, 35C @100% all cores, using this cooling setup. Instead of a radiator, I just have copper coiled tubing in a big barrel of water outdoors. But before I get into that I would suggest some other changes:
Radeon HD 7850 $260 x2=$520 That is $70 savings and better performance. But admittedly, more electrical power.
Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $160 x2=$320 in a RAID Almost certainly will out perform. $46 more
Rosewill BLACKHAWK Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Five Fans, window side panel, top HDD dock $90 savings=$72
Personally, I like having an internal card reader, but I guess that is optional. Tom’s has never put one in before…I guess it is not really a gaming thing, but it does making working with digital cameras, video cameras, and audio recorders easier.
Water cooling system:
Swiftech Apogee XT $48
Swiftech MCP355 $63
Just throw anything made of zinc in galvanized trash can to extend life…it is a chemistry thing $1.5
Made a Reservoir out of a 1 L bottle and a wheel valve stem I bored out a little wider with a drill. Valve stem $3
$20 for coiled copper tubing.
Galvanized trash can $25
Silicon sealant $3 (for the can seams)
Plastic tubing $6
Zip ties $1
Total $170.5 for cooling solution or $80.5 more than the Zalman
Overall system cost difference: -70, +46, -72, +80.5 = $-15.5 That’s right…cheaper!
And it is not so bad for energy because the can is put outside allowing the heat to be removed there requiring the AC in the house to do less work. And you could put waterblocks on the video cards too. It would cost a bit more though. I would make 2 loops. They can probably use the same copper coil and pump but it would be better to have all water cooled devices get the cool water directly rather than downstream of another devise. Cooling the video cards is probably more bother than it is worth. I would just overclock the CPU. It probably could go a bit higher or the same oc but at slightly less voltage. Leave everything else stock to reduce power consumption. I don’t think overcloking the memory will make much difference in performance but will add to the power bill. I think Tom’s just wanted to give the new system a boost in memory performance numbers. I doubt it did much for the actual apps.
Tom's should make a complete system with appropriate peripherals.
Radeon HD 7850 $260 x2=$520 That is $70 savings and better performance. But admittedly, more electrical power.
Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $160 x2=$320 in a RAID Almost certainly will out perform. $46 more
Rosewill BLACKHAWK Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Five Fans, window side panel, top HDD dock $90 savings=$72
Personally, I like having an internal card reader, but I guess that is optional. Tom’s has never put one in before…I guess it is not really a gaming thing, but it does making working with digital cameras, video cameras, and audio recorders easier.
Water cooling system:
Swiftech Apogee XT $48
Swiftech MCP355 $63
Just throw anything made of zinc in galvanized trash can to extend life…it is a chemistry thing $1.5
Made a Reservoir out of a 1 L bottle and a wheel valve stem I bored out a little wider with a drill. Valve stem $3
$20 for coiled copper tubing.
Galvanized trash can $25
Silicon sealant $3 (for the can seams)
Plastic tubing $6
Zip ties $1
Total $170.5 for cooling solution or $80.5 more than the Zalman
Overall system cost difference: -70, +46, -72, +80.5 = $-15.5 That’s right…cheaper!
And it is not so bad for energy because the can is put outside allowing the heat to be removed there requiring the AC in the house to do less work. And you could put waterblocks on the video cards too. It would cost a bit more though. I would make 2 loops. They can probably use the same copper coil and pump but it would be better to have all water cooled devices get the cool water directly rather than downstream of another devise. Cooling the video cards is probably more bother than it is worth. I would just overclock the CPU. It probably could go a bit higher or the same oc but at slightly less voltage. Leave everything else stock to reduce power consumption. I don’t think overcloking the memory will make much difference in performance but will add to the power bill. I think Tom’s just wanted to give the new system a boost in memory performance numbers. I doubt it did much for the actual apps.
Tom's should make a complete system with appropriate peripherals.
Go fuk yourself dude. Why don't you check your manners. If you don't agree with my post say so, no reason to insult me. I don't do professional work , I just game. That's why I questioned the video card decision, pretty sure it's been done in the system build guide before now.
jfizzle4321
Distinguished
- Feb 17, 2012
- 254
- 2
- 18,815
I hear you, I have very similar set up except I have H100, gtx 580 classified (until my two 680s come in on Tuesday).
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]mkw34[/nom]Go fuk yourself dude. Why don't you check your manners. If you don't agree with my post say so, no reason to insult me. I don't do professional work , I just game. That's why I questioned the video card decision, pretty sure it's been done in the system build guide before now.[/citation]
If you game, then what made you think that the 2500K was actually faster than the 3930K in games? As for the video card, this is obviously not a purely gaming system. I say obvious because it has been stated more than once in both the article and the comments here. Whether or not you only games has no effect on what this computer is intended for. This computer is a performance computer that is capable of great gaming performance. Why would you question the video card choice of a productivity machine from the perspective of a gamer, especially with how many times this has been explained and after the very writer of the article explaining it to you?
People who disagreed or would have disagreed with you had they card to explain this yet again have already explained why you were wrong. That anyone was still questioning this is stupid and I won't sugar coat that. This is not a gaming oriented machine. Has that been said enough for everyone to finally understand why this computer is as it is?
As for my manners, yes, I was a little over the top there and I'll apologize for that. However, my point remains. The number of people that asked the same things as you might be in the double digits despite the problem being settled in the very article that everyone is commenting on. This is not a gaming oriented machine and that's an irrefutable fact.
If you game, then what made you think that the 2500K was actually faster than the 3930K in games? As for the video card, this is obviously not a purely gaming system. I say obvious because it has been stated more than once in both the article and the comments here. Whether or not you only games has no effect on what this computer is intended for. This computer is a performance computer that is capable of great gaming performance. Why would you question the video card choice of a productivity machine from the perspective of a gamer, especially with how many times this has been explained and after the very writer of the article explaining it to you?
People who disagreed or would have disagreed with you had they card to explain this yet again have already explained why you were wrong. That anyone was still questioning this is stupid and I won't sugar coat that. This is not a gaming oriented machine. Has that been said enough for everyone to finally understand why this computer is as it is?
As for my manners, yes, I was a little over the top there and I'll apologize for that. However, my point remains. The number of people that asked the same things as you might be in the double digits despite the problem being settled in the very article that everyone is commenting on. This is not a gaming oriented machine and that's an irrefutable fact.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]mindbreaker[/nom]An improvement: Make a water cooled system that really removes heat. My system is less than 25C, 35C @100% all cores, using this cooling setup. Instead of a radiator, I just have copper coiled tubing in a big barrel of water outdoors. But before I get into that I would suggest some other changes:Radeon HD 7850 $260 x2=$520 That is $70 savings and better performance. But admittedly, more electrical power.Crucial M4 CT128M4SSD2 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $160 x2=$320 in a RAID Almost certainly will out perform. $46 moreRosewill BLACKHAWK Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Five Fans, window side panel, top HDD dock $90 savings=$72Personally, I like having an internal card reader, but I guess that is optional. Tom’s has never put one in before…I guess it is not really a gaming thing, but it does making working with digital cameras, video cameras, and audio recorders easier. Water cooling system: Swiftech Apogee XT $48 Swiftech MCP355 $63 Just throw anything made of zinc in galvanized trash can to extend life…it is a chemistry thing $1.5 Made a Reservoir out of a 1 L bottle and a wheel valve stem I bored out a little wider with a drill. Valve stem $3 $20 for coiled copper tubing. Galvanized trash can $25 Silicon sealant $3 (for the can seams) Plastic tubing $6 Zip ties $1Total $170.5 for cooling solution or $80.5 more than the ZalmanOverall system cost difference: -70, +46, -72, +80.5 = $-15.5 That’s right…cheaper! And it is not so bad for energy because the can is put outside allowing the heat to be removed there requiring the AC in the house to do less work. And you could put waterblocks on the video cards too. It would cost a bit more though. I would make 2 loops. They can probably use the same copper coil and pump but it would be better to have all water cooled devices get the cool water directly rather than downstream of another devise. Cooling the video cards is probably more bother than it is worth. I would just overclock the CPU. It probably could go a bit higher or the same oc but at slightly less voltage. Leave everything else stock to reduce power consumption. I don’t think overcloking the memory will make much difference in performance but will add to the power bill. I think Tom’s just wanted to give the new system a boost in memory performance numbers. I doubt it did much for the actual apps.Tom's should make a complete system with appropriate peripherals.[/citation]
That's an interesting idea, but Radeon 7000 cards have deplorable CF support in many games and your cooling solution may be a hassle. I think that Tom's has had a card reader before, but I might be wrong there. It does seem to be an oftentimes overlooked component despite being fairly useful for a lot of people. Memory overclocks don't help most programs much, but it does significantly impact archiving and I've heard that rendering also likes memory bandwidth. I've also heard that some folding likes low memory latency. I'm not sure how much other programs benefit from increased memory performance, but most take at least a small improvement out of it.
EDIT: New AMD drivers are out, maybe CF has been improved on the Radeon 7000 cards. We'll need to wait and see.
That's an interesting idea, but Radeon 7000 cards have deplorable CF support in many games and your cooling solution may be a hassle. I think that Tom's has had a card reader before, but I might be wrong there. It does seem to be an oftentimes overlooked component despite being fairly useful for a lot of people. Memory overclocks don't help most programs much, but it does significantly impact archiving and I've heard that rendering also likes memory bandwidth. I've also heard that some folding likes low memory latency. I'm not sure how much other programs benefit from increased memory performance, but most take at least a small improvement out of it.
EDIT: New AMD drivers are out, maybe CF has been improved on the Radeon 7000 cards. We'll need to wait and see.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
Sorry, but just because someone else asks a stupid question doesn't mean that you should join in. People complaining about this machine not being gaming oriented just because they don't care about productivity machines should just shut up. Some people want a purely gaming machine, but some people want a machine that can do professional work. More expensive machines than $1500 are generally more workstation oriented than they are gaming oriented because gaming performance has a severe diminishing returns on importance besides for something like 5760x1080 in 3D or a 7680x1600 setup. Lets face it, that's not target performance for many gamers. However, a machine that can handle productivity can have much higher prices because there is good reason for the higher prices.
Had this been a gaming oriented machine (like taking the $1300 machine and using SB-E in it), then the complaints would be at least more relevant. However, none of them are because this isn't a gaming oriented machine and the people going on about the GTX 680 are especially wrong since the 680 wasn't even out when Tom's bought the hardware for these machines over a month ago.
Terrible choice.
An i5 2600k plus two high-end GPUs is much better.
If you insist on SB-E, at least spend $90 and get 32GB of RAM, spending only $90 for 16GB of RAM is absurd when you are spending $2500 on the system.
An i5 2600k plus two high-end GPUs is much better.
If you insist on SB-E, at least spend $90 and get 32GB of RAM, spending only $90 for 16GB of RAM is absurd when you are spending $2500 on the system.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
i5-2500K or i7-2600K, pick your poison there because there is no i5-2600K. This is not a huge gaming system; it's a productivity system that is also a capable gaming system. Sure, 32GB would have been better, but 16GB should be enough for even productivity work. 32GB (8x4GB) of DDR3 1333 or 1600 would cost at least $120, if not closer to $160 to $200. That would have been fairly far over-budget.
- Dec 31, 2007
- 48,582
- 92
- 66,190
[citation][nom]Cippujohn[/nom]Terrible choice.An i5 2600k plus two high-end GPUs is much better.If you insist on SB-E, at least spend $90 and get 32GB of RAM, spending only $90 for 16GB of RAM is absurd when you are spending $2500 on the system.[/citation]I don't see how an extra GPU would have made Handbrake, Mainconcept, Photoshop, 3ds Max, or ABBY FineReader any faster. In fact, a 2600K and dual GPUs would have slowed those things down. And we're having a hard time pushing past 8GB of memory use, so going from 16GB to 32GB would have been an even larger waste of money.
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