System Builder Marathon, March 2012: System Value Compared

[Crashman]

Three different builders took two different approaches this quarter. Paul and Don struck out in search of more graphics performance, while Thomas gave up some GPU horsepower in favor of a stronger CPU. Whose strategy paid off? It's time to compare!

System Builder Marathon, March 2012: System Value Compared : Read more

 

[sonexpc]

Looks like $650 PC can do almost everything smoothly ! Even most of the game can get over 40fps...
which is not bad... for Just $650 ...So the first piority for gaming PC is still the Video card!

 

[MMO Fan]

nobody needs a $600 cpu

 

[shoot you]

I always love seeing the System builder articles (even though I cant build one myself for now hahahaha).

Great as always. It sad that the Nvidia GTX 680 has yet to be considered due to availability and pricing issues hehehehe.

 

[iamauser]

Translation: we don't actually stand behind any of these builds as being worthwhile to emulate.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]iamauser[/nom]Translation: we don't actually stand behind any of these builds as being worthwhile to emulate.[/citation]The $650 and $2600 PC builders loved their machines, it's just hard to recommend either of those to "everyone" or even "most people" since most of the readers really want $800-1200 machines.

 

[MMO Fan]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]The $650 and $2600 PC builders loved their machines, it's just hard to recommend either of those to "everyone" or even "most people" since most of the readers really want $800-1200 machines.[/citation]
It's hard to recomend them because they just are not real good for the large outlay of cash as in the money could have been spent on better parts but instead was spent on "balancing" and pleasing the TH memebers.

 

[Wave Fusion]

I'd love to build a PC with a beefy GPU someday.
But coming from a notebook background, I more or less have to start from scratch.

I can use my old mouse, and my TV as a monitor. But on top of the estimated build costs listed, I also need the OS, keyboard, and likely other misc. odds and ends.

$200 ($100 OEM) for Windows 7 is brutal.

I also don't want to waste time on a desktop that only has a GPU advantage over the notebook.
Desktop upgrades over even a mobile i7 is still pricey.

Since I know my 2720QM uses the same die as desktops; it'd be swell if I could just yank it out; plug it in a desktop board and call it a 2600k. In a desktop it wouldn't have to stay in a 45W TDP

But.. *sigh*.. the parts are locked, the sockets don't match; and a real life desktop carbon copy of my notebook is out of my budget atm.
--
If I could find a way to attach a 7870 to my notebook motherboard, I wouldn't have a problem with the frankenstein-ish creation.

The 6670 just doesn't cut it sometimes

 

[MMO Fan]

[citation][nom]Wave Fusion[/nom]I'd love to build a PC with a beefy GPU someday.But coming from a notebook background, I more or less have to start from scratch.I can use my old mouse, and my TV as a monitor. But on top of the estimated build costs listed, I also need the OS, keyboard, and likely other misc. odds and ends.$200 ($100 OEM) for Windows 7 is brutal. I also don't want to waste time on a desktop that only has a GPU advantage over the notebook.Desktop upgrades over even a mobile i7 is still pricey.Since I know my 2720QM uses the same die as desktops; it'd be swell if I could just yank it out; plug it in a desktop board and call it a 2600k. In a desktop it wouldn't have to stay in a 45W TDPBut.. *sigh*.. the parts are locked, the sockets don't match; and a real life desktop carbon copy of my notebook is out of my budget atm.--If I could find a way to attach a 7870 to my notebook motherboard, I wouldn't have a problem with the frankenstein-ish creation.The 6670 just doesn't cut it sometimes[/citation]
Any Desktop CPU this side of C2Duo will substancially out perform any Laptop CPU

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]MMO fan[/nom]It's hard to recomend them because they just are not real good for the large outlay of cash as in the money could have been spent on better parts but instead was spent on "balancing" and pleasing the TH memebers.[/citation]I'll explain this the way I did in your other $2600 PC comments. You're simply wrong. I can't help you understand why someone would want a PC that performs well in multiple areas. I can't help you understand why someone would want their PC to be quiet. I can't help you to understand why someone would want their PC to store more applications on the faster device. I can't help you to understand these things because you have already rejected them. Your prejudice excludes any "balanced" analysis.

But at least you're fairly nice about it.

 

[MMO Fan]

[citation][nom]Crashman[/nom]I'll explain this the way I did in your other $2600 PC comments. You're simply wrong. I can't help you understand why someone would want a PC that performs well in multiple areas. I can't help you understand why someone would want their PC to be quiet. I can't help you to understand why someone would want their PC to store more applications on the faster device. I can't help you to understand these things because you have already rejected them. Your prejudice excludes any "balanced" analysis.But at least you're fairly nice about it.[/citation]
7970 is more than "well" it is the best of the best and Fractal Design Define R3 is $100 or some $30 less than the P280 and performance better these two points I made are just for starters. If you will I could go on and build a far better machine for $2600 but you seem to think this TH $2600 "performance" build is the best when it is far from it.

 

[InsaneScientist]

Any Desktop CPU this side of C2Duo will substancially out perform any Laptop CPU

You sure about that? That's a quad core Sandy Bridge CPU that can turbo up to 3.0GHz on all 4 cores...
It's roughly equivalent to the desktop i5 2300, a chip that stomps nearly everything available for socket 1156 (Excepting only the highest end Lynnfields) and even half of the lineup for 1366, let alone any older stuff.

Also, keep in mind that there is at least one cheap desktop CPU being sold today that a C2Duo will outperform.
The Celeron G440 is a 1.6GHz (ouch), single core (double ouch) Sandy Bridge derived chip.
My aging laptop's T7500 would eat that thing for lunch.


While desktop chips are certainly more powerful than laptop chips on average, saying that they are all better is a bit disingenuous.

 

[quixoticism]

Since the $1300 and $2600 systems have (essentially) the same video card spending the extra $600 on the cpu does absolutely nothing for gaming that is perceptively noticeable. When gpu bound they performed almost identically, with the $1300 O/C winning out with the better overclock.
When not graphics bound both cpus deliver framerates well above smooth(70+) in every title.

I was quite impressed with how much faster those 6 cores proved to be in the productivity segment. It's too bad we probably won't see 6 cores on the 1155 socket.

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]MMO fan[/nom]7970 is more than "well" it is the best of the best and Fractal Design Define R3 is $100 or some $30 less than the P280 and performance better these two points I made are just for starters. If you will I could go on and build a far better machine for $2600 but you seem to think this TH $2600 "performance" build is the best when it is far from it.[/citation]You got me there, the Define R3 has similar performance for $30 less money and I chose the P280 instead. Perhaps USB 3.0 had something to do with it, or that I wanted a case with front panel ports accessible from the front. Or maybe I just thought it was too fat. Hmmm. But yeh, if I wanted to compromise on features and have a fatter case I could have saved $30.

And Fractal does have good quality, I've nothing against the company. We even used them in a couple of our past builds and look forward to working with them on an upcoming story.

 

[agnickolov]

If I were to build a $2600 machine for gaming, I'd go with i7 2700K and Z68 and use the saved cash for a second video card. 2x Radeon 7950 would certainly outperform a single Radeon 7970. And now we also "have" the option of GeForce GTX 680 (sans that little availability nuisance...).

 

[Darkerson]

I know Id be pretty happy with any of those. Thanks for the comparisons and the builds in general.

 

[weatherdude]

Minor typo in the "Benchmark And Overclock Settings" page. In the $1300 Enthusiast PC column it says it uses a Powercolor Radeon HD 6970 for it's graphics. It should be the Radeon HD 7970 right? Yeah yeah I know, minor details that don't bother anybody but me.

Anyways it's always fun to experiment in the SBM. Nice to see that gamble with the GPU in the $1300 payoff in gaming. Good stuff all around here. That chipset driver on the X79 though is somewhat worrying. Does it affect all SSD's? Although it doesn't affect me since the LGA 2011 platform is way out of my league...

 

[Guest]

Thanks for doing something different, Don. Continue the good work!
I think that the $2600 build is a really intelligent and elegant solution, and furthermore, I think we should be all looking forward to June build with hopefully Ivy Bridge and more 28nm solutions at better prices!!

 

[Crashman]

[citation][nom]weatherdude[/nom]Minor typo in the "Benchmark And Overclock Settings" page. In the $1300 Enthusiast PC column it says it uses a Powercolor Radeon HD 6970 for it's graphics. It should be the Radeon HD 7970 right?[/citation]Fixed, thanks!

 

[de5_Roy]

good builds, nice articles as usual.
i think i am the only one who's a bit bored because of the absence of an amd cpu in one of the builds. last quarter was very interesting with the $1200 pc's performance. i actually liked how the current $1250 pc's i5 2400 (4 core) kept up with last quarter's fx 6100 (6 cores) in productivity and apps and outperformed it despite it's hardware issues.
this quarter it's just intel vs intel vs intel. cpus are less priority in gaming but higher priority in productivity and performance in apps which $1200 and $2500~ builds seem to focus on. i am just nitpicking because i don't find anything wrong with any of the builds. i am more or less okay with the part choices except the asrock p67 motherboard.
i found the comments various people made on gtx 680 hilarious.

 

[SpadeM]

Even though I don't agree with every choice of components or how they're put to use (maybe a ramdisk for the 2600$ could have been fun to create) I do believe that no reader expects the builders to be all knowing and impartial when they pick their parts. We all have different esthetic tastes and prioritize functionality points on a case by case situation. That being said, looking forward to the next SBM, hope you guys deliver something crazy and don't play it safe

 

[grumbledook]

I have a suggestion, how about adding a mini itx build and/or a htpc build? There's options to make both of those relatively powerful computers if you need it focused on that.

 

[silverblue]

I have a suggestion, how about adding a mini itx build and/or a htpc build? There's options to make both of those relatively powerful computers if you need it focused on that.

Or, perhaps better still, bring back the Intel vs. AMD budget/HTPC articles.

 

[Onus]

I think a lot of people start with a base configuration similar to the $650 machine (or to a base $500 machine), and increase spending on various parts in order to make the PC more like the $1250 PC, or even the $2600 PC; where they spend being influenced by their specific goals. By the time they get up to $1200-$1300, they're probably fairly happy with their results.
Any assertion that any PC with a HD7970 is a hardcore gamer is gibberish. A few years back, people were building quad Crossfire HD5870 or HD5830 PCs with Sempron or Celeron processors (why those cards got hard to find). They weren't gamers, at all, but bitcoin miners hoping to cash in when bitcoins were trading around $18 or more. Many of these people paid for their GPUs in weeks or months. There are countless other GPGPU functions that require powerful GPUs, on PCs that may never have a single game loaded on them.
...which brings up a weakness of the value analysis. If the $2600 PC can accomplish one more unit of paying work in a week (or a day, or an hour), it may very well pay for itself many times over. That's what makes such a PC a professional's tool, not just a gamer. When the measure is in dollars earned rather than just FPS, the value analysis needs to change. I'm not faulting the conclusion in today's SBM article, just pointing out that it only applies to gaming value.
Another issue is one of less definable constraints that cannot be measured easily. Space (and/or weight) and power can have tight budgets as well, one's wife or mom may impose aesthetic requirements (e.g. no glaring lights), and Dad may not want the roar of fans.
In particular, I like grumbledook's idea for mini-ITX. No, you're not going to compare it to a full tower ATX for raw power, but you can see how well it handles tasks for which it is intended, and ten to one I'll bet you can indeed get very good gaming performance out of it.

 

[confish21]

Great read, really looking forward to the ivy bridge systems!