System Builder Marathon Q1 2016: $662 Budget PC

[Jay_29]

I can't agree with your choice for case. Redbone U3 is a terrible case for almost $50 bucks. You can grab a Corsair case with FAR better layout and quality. Also can't agreed on your choice for HDD. You can get a 240GB SSD that much. The price of your GTX 950 is also approaching GTX 960 levels.

 

[RedJaron]

Please, enlighten us why you think the Redbone is a "terrible" case. Sure, it could use some better punchouts and grommets for running internal cables. But very few cases come with three 120mm fans for only $43. When you get parts planning to overclock them, that extra airflow is a big consideration. For a box with at least three fans and front USB3 ports, there are only two cheaper on Newegg right now, and that's because they're on sale for $15 off.

Yes, I could have put a SSD in here. I really wanted to. But that leaves very little room for music, pictures, videos, and all the things most people store on their system. Adding both the SSD and spindle would have been preferable, but that would drive the final price over $700. At that point, it would be hard to call this a "budget" computer. If this was built for a real person instead of the SBM, I would've put at least a 120 GB drive in.

Please, tell me where I can get a 960 for $155. The cheapest on Newegg right now is $180.

 

[Jay_29]

Please, enlighten us why you think the Redbone is a "terrible" case. Sure, it could use some better punchouts and grommets for running internal cables. But very few cases come with three 120mm fans for only $43. When you get parts planning to overclock them, that extra airflow is a big consideration. For a box with at least three fans and front USB3 ports, there are only two cheaper on Newegg right now, and that's because they're on sale for $15 off.

Yes, I could have put a SSD in here. I really wanted to. But that leaves very little room for music, pictures, videos, and all the things most people store on their system. Adding both the SSD and spindle would have been preferable, but that would drive the final price over $700. At that point, it would be hard to call this a "budget" computer. If this was built for a real person instead of the SBM, I would've put at least a 120 GB drive in.

Please, tell me where I can get a 960 for $155. The cheapest on Newegg right now is $180.

 

[silicondoc_85]

Oh, and I realize the case is what it is, but it's hugely volume-inefficient.

Oh. Good to know. But this isn't a budget build because the case and PS were bought separately, a big no no for those actually on a to the bone budget.

So $43 was wasted on a case when both case and ps can be purchased for 37.99.
Save $30 on the OC board and get a $50 board.
Now I've got an extra $73 to add to the cpu or vidcard, or some on both.
At least the i5 6500 for instance at $170.

(OP budget builder waste) tsk, tsk, lack of experience is showing.

 

[Jay_29]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127894&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=IGNEFL040116&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL040116-_-EMC-040116-Index-_-DesktopGraphicsCards-_-14127894-S1A2A $174.99 AR

You can find similar deals on 960 year round. I don't see that trend changing now that Pascal is less than a quarter away.

As for redbone:

1. bad cutouts & cable management options. if I remembered correctly, it didn't even have a cutout for PSU-CPU power cable. You can have fun squeezing the cable under your motherboard or have it dangling over your motherboard.
2. cheap paint, the red bezels up front is very glossy & thinly painted, very scratch friendly & a huge fingerprint magnet
3. thin side covers that bends and dents easily
3. cheap cover 5.25'' bays up front, those detachable metal grilles are flimsy
4. "filter" up front gets dirty quickly; it doesn't take long for you to see a huge disc of dust. You could reduce the amount by reducing airflow by slowing the fan down, but then your front LED won't light up as brightly.
5. don't remember since it's a few years ago, but plenty of glue on the front fan & ports
6. unsightly FP cables, especially the twisted red yellow black scheme with white plastic header.

I also don't understand why you're throwing overclocking as supporting argument. You're not gonna overheat and die from overclocking an i3, especially when it's not even officially supported. You could use a 212EVO exhausting toward the rear vent and 0 case fans if you wanted. You're not gonna have your computer shutting down from overheating.

I'd take a 100R/200R or similar cases from other vendors with 1 single fan over a redbone just for the difference in quality alone. That aside, when it comes to opening up and working with your internals, having a better case for a few bucks more is a huge blessing. My sister is a prime example of this. She went cheap with Redbone U3 and end up throwing it out for a Corsair less than 3 months later.

As for SSD not having enough capacity for music & movies - most people stream contents these days. I think majority would appreciate speed & quietness over slow & loud mechanical drive. That aside, the beauty of having a desktop is so that you can upgrade/add on later. I doubt someone would be too poor to afford a mechanical drive a few months down the road if they really needed one. Who knows, maybe one wouldn't even need to purchase a mechanical drive later on with the prices of SSDs dropping so rapidly these days.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Oh, and I realize the case is what it is, but it's hugely volume-inefficient.

Oh. Good to know. But this isn't a budget build because the case and PS were bought separately, a big no no for those actually on a to the bone budget.

So $43 was wasted on a case when both case and ps can be purchased for 37.99.
Save $30 on the OC board and get a $50 board.
Now I've got an extra $73 to add to the cpu or vidcard, or some on both.
At least the i5 6500 for instance at $170.

(OP budget builder waste) tsk, tsk, lack of experience is showing.

You do realize how awful case-included PSUs are, don't you? You greatly undermine the quality of a PSU - the most important component in a system. Bad power supplies can catch fire or completely damage your hardware, let alone decrease your hardware's lifespan.

 

[RedJaron]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127894&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=IGNEFL040116&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL040116-_-EMC-040116-Index-_-DesktopGraphicsCards-_-14127894-S1A2A $174.99 AR

Allow me to emphasize the after rebate part of that. First, rebates aren't counted in SBM prices. Second, if we're going to talk rebates, then you can get a 950 as low as $130. Considering you can overclock a 950 to almost match a 960, most tech writers and reviewers consider a 960 the worse buy right now. Both cards are designed for 1080. As you can see in these benches, the 950 is already providing excellent 1080 gaming. Getting a little extra power from a 960 isn't going to make much difference since it's not enough to make the jump to 1440. So why pay more for it?

As for redbone:

1. bad cutouts & cable management options. if I remembered correctly, it didn't even have a cutout for PSU-CPU power cable. You can have fun squeezing the cable under your motherboard or have it dangling over your motherboard.
2. cheap paint, the red bezels up front is very glossy & thinly painted, very scratch friendly & a huge fingerprint magnet
3. thin side covers that bends and dents easily
3. cheap cover 5.25'' bays up front, those detachable metal grilles are flimsy
4. "filter" up front gets dirty quickly; it doesn't take long for you to see a huge disc of dust. You could reduce the amount by reducing airflow by slowing the fan down, but then your front LED won't light up as brightly.
5. don't remember since it's a few years ago, but plenty of glue on the front fan & ports
6. unsightly FP cables, especially the twisted red yellow black scheme with white plastic header.

You seem to be under the false premise that I think the Redbone is a premium case. I don't. It's an adequate one. Yes, the side panels have a little flex to them. As long as you don't abuse them and as long as you're not moving the machine around every day, they'll be fine. No, I don't like the cable management. I mentioned that a few times in the article and a few times here as well. I'm not sure what else I'd need to do to get that through to you. And I think you'll find all paint is prone to scratching and all filters will collect dust and need to be cleaned. And if you're so worried about the colors of an internal audio cable, one that you can't even see through a solid panel, I fear you've got worse problems then just a mediocre computer chassis.

I also don't understand why you're throwing overclocking as supporting argument. You're not gonna overheat and die from overclocking an i3, especially when it's not even officially supported. You could use a 212EVO exhausting toward the rear vent and 0 case fans if you wanted. You're not gonna have your computer shutting down from overheating.

This tells me you didn't even read the article. As such this is my last response to you since I don't have time to haggle with every Internet user who takes one look at the stat sheet and comes to complain in the forums. So I'll spell it out to you, slowly. The i3 wasn't the only thing overclocked. Even if it was, whether it's supported or not has nothing to do with how much extra heat comes off it. But apparently you missed the part where I did put a tower cooler on it that in fact was pointed out the exhaust. But yet again you're mentioning another, more expensive part to put on this machine that was meant to cost as little as reasonable.

I put a pretty good load on that 950 as well. If you actually read the article you'd notice that I used the side fan to blow in air directly on the GPU so as to force hot air out the bottom case vent rather than lust let it recirculate as would happen with the GPU's axial coolers. That's why I was able to overclock it without it getting any hotter or loader than it was at stock.

I'd take a 100R/200R or similar cases from other vendors with 1 single fan over a redbone just for the difference in quality alone.

Hmm, so your solution, like the 960, is just to spend more money? I'm not sure you understand the idea of a "low-budget" system.

As for SSD not having enough capacity for music & movies - most people stream contents these days.

Yeah, well, y'know that's just like, uh, your opinion, man. Seriously, can you back that up with any kind of study or statistic? Because it's not just about file storage. It's about application capacity. I have a 250 GB SSD in my personal machine. Wanna know how much free space is on it? 25 GB. That's 225 GB of OS and applications alone. Not to mention the other 100GB of games on a second SSD and another 100GB of applications on a performance spindle. Nearly all my files are on a slower 2TB spindle ( about 400GB free on that right now ). So, you want to lecture us on what you think is adequate storage space? 250 GB may be just enough for a basic home or office computer, but that's a few steps below this machine here.

That aside, the beauty of having a desktop is so that you can upgrade/add on later.

As anyone who's built computers for a living will tell you, building a machine with the intent of upgrading it later is a fool's errand. There's always something new, something better, something shinier comping down the pipe. Yes, you can upgrade a desktop, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to build it halfway good the first time.

Oh. Good to know. But this isn't a budget build because the case and PS were bought separately, a big no no for those actually on a to the bone budget.
...
(OP budget builder waste) tsk, tsk, lack of experience is showing.

A $38 combo case / PSU? Really? And you want to say my lack of experience is showing? Can someone lend me a facepalm, I seem to have run out of them today.

 

[silraks]

I just wanted to say thank you, for the great article/build (on budget)!

 

[Jay_29]

Allow me to emphasize the after rebate part of that. First, rebates aren't counted in SBM prices. Second, if we're going to talk rebates, then you can get a 950 as low as $130. Considering you can overclock a 950 to almost match a 960, most tech writers and reviewers consider a 960 the worse buy right now. Both cards are designed for 1080. As you can see in these benches, the 950 is already providing excellent 1080 gaming. Getting a little extra power from a 960 isn't going to make much difference since it's not enough to make the jump to 1440. So why pay more for it?

Do you honestly expect someone with a $600 budget to spend their time overclocking cheaper components to the next tier, without guaranteed results due to silicon lottery? You could say the same thing for every single Nvidia Card given the jump is usually 10-20% from one tier to the next, so why bother going faster at all?

You seem to be under the false premise that I think the Redbone is a premium case. I don't. It's an adequate one. Yes, the side panels have a little flex to them. As long as you don't abuse them and as long as you're not moving the machine around every day, they'll be fine. No, I don't like the cable management. I mentioned that a few times in the article and a few times here as well. I'm not sure what else I'd need to do to get that through to you. And I think you'll find all paint is prone to scratching and all filters will collect dust and need to be cleaned. And if you're so worried about the colors of an internal audio cable, one that you can't even see through a solid panel, I fear you've got worse problems then just a mediocre computer chassis.

I'm under no false premise about anything. I just disagree on your opinion regarding Redbone U3 being an acceptable case.

Yes all paint are prone to scratching; it just happens that some paint are a lot more prone to scratching. As for filter - this case uses a thin sheet of foam that's both cheap/easy to destroy and a pain in the rear to clean. Also, I find that funny that you should criticize me for worrying about cable appearance when you stated oh so boldly that your RAM had a good color scheme.

This tells me you didn't even read the article. As such this is my last response to you since I don't have time to haggle with every Internet user who takes one look at the stat sheet and comes to complain in the forums. So I'll spell it out to you, slowly. The i3 wasn't the only thing overclocked. Even if it was, whether it's supported or not has nothing to do with how much extra heat comes off it. But apparently you missed the part where I did put a tower cooler on it that in fact was pointed out the exhaust. But yet again you're mentioning another, more expensive part to put on this machine that was meant to cost as little as reasonable.

I put a pretty good load on that 950 as well. If you actually read the article you'd notice that I used the side fan to blow in air directly on the GPU so as to force hot air out the bottom case vent rather than lust let it recirculate as would happen with the GPU's axial coolers. That's why I was able to overclock it without it getting any hotter or loader than it was at stock.

I'll admit I did skim your article, however, it doesn't change the fact that your build by no means require sacrificing case quality for an additional $3 fan.

It's also pointless trying to OC all these budget components; I believe you mentioned 950/960 made no difference. So what difference would it make for you to try to bump up your GPU performance up by overclocking?

As anyone who's built computers for a living will tell you, building a machine with the intent of upgrading it later is a fool's errand. There's always something new, something better, something shinier comping down the pipe. Yes, you can upgrade a desktop, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to build it halfway good the first time.

You still remember what your original intent with this build is right? After all the time you spent berating me on "going off budget", you're gonna tell me upgrading is a "fool's errand". You're going to tell your budget builders to go ahead and scrap their PC and spend another $600 just because they want to add some storage?

I don't know man, you sound so awfully defensive with all your replies just because someone disagree with your choice in parts.

I could fit both SSD/HDD into budget as well as a GTX 960 with a better case and still end up with a faster PC than yours for the same money without any rebates.

 

[Onus]

Jay, you're welcome to post an alternate build. I will caution you, however, that very few PSUs that are included with cases, especially cheap ones, are fit for purpose; if that's what you require to make budget, there will be a line around the block of people waiting their turn to call you out on it. Some members, myself included, take perverse pleasure in pointing and laughing at review clips and YouTube videos of such PSU-shaped objects self-destructing, often violently, under loads no more than 60% of what's on their labels.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Yes Jay please design your own rig within the same budget and post it here. Then we will criticize it.

 

[Onus]

I'd say rather we will "analyze" it. It is entirely possible that Jay has spotted a deal that Eric (or others) missed; I do it myself, which is why I often post a thread when planning a new build, because multiple pairs of eyes can be better than just one.
To be valid though, the alternate build must follow the rules of the SBM, which means all Newegg parts, and rebates and combos don't count. Keep in mind too, that the lead time on these articles is such that a price today may be different than it was when the SBM parts were ordered.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Criticize, analyze, you know what I mean.

 

[Onus]

We should not imply hostility though. Good alternatives are always possible. The kicker is usually that they must follow SBM rules, which is a real bummer when a truly outstanding deal happens to be on Amazon, or Superbiiz, or somewhere else. Yes, a builder would use that, but it's not relevant for the SBM discussion (and gets deleted).

 

[JQB45]

Hmmm, well that was lively. Thanks for the article RedJaron. Its to bad you're limited to one supplier.

 

[Ergosum]

Good article. I appreciate the effort it takes to hit cost target and maintain reasonable performance; I know I always scope-creep my way out of my value target into a mid-range build.

 

[RedJaron]

Hmmm, well that was lively. Thanks for the article RedJaron. Its to bad you're limited to one supplier.

It's just the rules here. We recognize most people won't restrict themselves in such a way, so this is meant more as an example and how to of the machine itself, not necessarily the shopping for it.

Good article. I appreciate the effort it takes to hit cost target and maintain reasonable performance; I know I always scope-creep my way out of my value target into a mid-range build.

Me too, brother. Me too. "Hmm, if I just spend $10 more, I can get that mboard. $20 more will get me this better GPU. Ooh, only $15 extra for that nice case..." Suddenly I'm $150 over where I started.

 

[Onus]

I do that a lot too. Playing "what-if" is a budget-killer. I started building more mITX systems though, when I realized it had been years since I put anything other than a single graphics card into a PC. One got a wireless NIC, but even that is available on many mITX boards now.

 

[RedJaron]

Even though I don't usually use more than one slot, I still stick to mATX or full size boards because they seem to be cheaper than their comparable ITX version. Cooling is a lot easier in bigger cases as well.

 

[Onus]

True. When I finally do something with this i3-6100, it will be mATX or full ATX (especially if it replaces Omega, my FX-8320 machine).

 

[Guest]

Less than $400 worth of power for only over $650, brilliant.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Less than $400 worth of power for only over $650, brilliant.

Care to explain why you think so? Or are you just trolling?

 

[Guest]

Care to explain why you think so? Or are you just trolling?

Yes to both. I've too often seen people write about 'budget builds' when they don't understand what budget really means to people who require one. Often I see parts chosen just because they're what the author already had lying around. I also didn't bother reading the article before coming to my own conclusion that overclocking isn't worth the extra money. Here's why: This is the same i3 and 950 minus overclocking for $436, OK I splurged a little. Here we move a step up, with an i5 and 960 for $574, but I swear if you're a first time customer to Jet.com you can make that 960 a 970 with an 80+ Bronze power supply to match for less than $662. I have all sellers who don't show shipping price, as well as all mail-in rebates disabled.

Sure PCPP and r/buildapcsales don't make you a budget building master but I've used some of these parts before and they've done me good. Tomorrow those prices might be $50 more or they might be $50 less, either way I wouldn't burn my money away at eighty degrees celsius just for a meager overclock.

 

[Mac266]

Yes to both. I've too often seen people write about 'budget builds' when they don't understand what budget really means to people who require one. Often I see parts chosen just because they're what the author already had lying around. I also didn't bother reading the article before coming to my own conclusion that overclocking isn't worth the extra money. Here's why: This is the same i3 and 950 minus overclocking for $436, OK I splurged a little. Here we move a step up, with an i5 and 960 for $574, but I swear to fuck if you're a first time customer to Jet.com you can make that 960 a 970 with an 80+ Bronze power supply to match for less than $662. I have all sellers who don't show shipping price, as well as all mail-in rebates disabled.

Sure PCPP and r/buildapcsales don't make you a budget building master but I've used some of these parts before and they've done me good. Tomorrow those prices might be $50 more or they might be $50 less, either way I wouldn't burn my money away at eighty degrees celsius just for a meager overclock.

The SBM builds are locked to Newegg.com.

Aside from that, you used less than amazing memory and motherboard, and a PSU that's only 80+ certified.

 

[Guest]

The SBM builds are locked to Newegg.com.

Aside from that, you used less than amazing memory and motherboard, and a PSU that's only 80+ certified.

Interesting limitation. Now if you think paying near twice as much for faster memory is going to offer a practical performance increase, you must be trying to justify something to yourself. I didn't suggest dual channel in order to keep a possible 16GB upgrade option, but the validity of that practice could be questioned. And I'm not going to worry about having only 80+ on a budget, a budget build isn't meant to last a decade. I have an 80+ that's already half way there though. Why should I pay extra for a motherboard when I don't need to SLI, quad channel, have M.2 slots or overclock? Cheap motherboards don't mean defective.