System Builder Marathon, Sept. '09: $1,250 Enthusiast Build

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Different is always better 🙁

I was looking forward to something that would squeeze as much value as possible from that $1250 budget and this was not it.
 
Great review! I love seeing new ideas and thoughts, and I really like the 4850 and the motherboard you picked..
although for the same price you could get a 5870 (correct me if I'm wrong) and get better thermal / power draw and probably the same performance. Heck, you could save more by getting a 790x motherboard since you only use one card.
But that's just nitpicking.. It's all the same eventually
 
[citation][nom]cknobman[/nom]Being a hardware review site you should know better than anyone how badly gpu scaling is beyond 2 cards. [/citation]

Do we? How many quad-crossfire 4850 builds have you guys seen tested? Against dual 4890s or triple 4890s?

If we all accept foregone conclusions without challenging them once in a while, nobody learns anything.

This build looks bad because it's compared to an i7 machine that isn't CPU bottlenecked; the real test to see if it's all that bad is when it's pitched against the $2500 AMD machine later. Then the CPU bottlenecking won't be much of an issue, and we'll see how it fares against three 4890s.


 
I am an Intel fan,
But this build proves a lot, think of the average person who wants to start building a system but doesn't have alot of money, he can spend 700 bucks to get the core of this build everything minus 3 graphics cards, case and cooler. As the money comes along he has the opportunity to upgrade to this system and even further, like a black edition cpu.

Great build, bout time you gave the AMD guys what they are looking for.
 
I'll disagree on the Xigmatek Dark Knight S1283 cooler, for one simple reason.

The little rubber things for mounting the fan are not too strong and tend to break on installation.

I emailed Xigmatek requesting a new supply and received NO response.

For poor customer service, a future customer is lost.
 
2 things:

#1. This whole concept of building for $650, $1250, and $2500 should be about the best bang for the buck, but geared towards who you're building it for, not Intel vs AMD. Gamer, Workstation/Gaming on the side, Graphic Designer/Video Editor, etc.

#2. This whole Builder Marathon seems more to be about a gaming machine if you had to spend $650, $1250, and $2500 now. For all the articles Tom's Hardware has, why does any gamer need anything more powerful than a Phenom II x3 720 BE? Why does any gamer need anything more than 4GB DDR2 RAM? Is the extra 5 FPS actually worth $300? These are the things I'd like to see. You then realize, hey, instead of building a $1250 system now, I can build a $650 system, and upgrade in another 6 months because the value is better than the gains.

 
@El_Capitan:

Wow. Way to miss the point of the review.

1. I believe the point is to show what can be done in the respective price categories. Tom's release monthly "best bang for buck" updates for both CPU & GPUs; that line of thinking doesn't need to carry over into every column and guide Tom's put out.

2. It has actually been proven (by someone on the forums) that the *best* value for money for gaming can be sought by upgrading every 6 months with a $600 system based on what was hot 6 months ago. Obviously that's not a viable (or even practical) choice for everyone, and what you're suggesting by mentioning specific parts isn't neccesarily viable either due to the constantly-fluctuating prices of parts; I mean, who would have thought DVD-drives were going to double in price between April and August?
 
Thanks for the alternative view. It does help to show how these alternatives compare. Now it kinda makes me wonder how it would have stacked up with a pair of pre-OC'd GTX 275's or a very pre-OC'd 295 and how that might have changed the budget around etc.
 
@ The Lady Slayer.

I don't miss the point of the review, I just don't think it's realistic. Of course, not many people are going to upgrade every 6 months, I don't even do that. What I'm saying is if you built your $650 machine now instead of your $1250 machine, if you wait 6 months to upgrade another $600, your gains in performance will be a lot better. Or, suggest that $600 can buy you two really nice 28" 1900 x 1200 HD LCD monitors.
 
Missed a point in the last comment. Your $650 machine now, then 6 months later, compare a $600 upgrade to that 6 months later $1250 machine. Get a real world analysis of upgrade vs. new build from a price point of view.
 
@El_Capitan:

Ok, I see what you're saying now, but you still need to realise that for the guys who run the Builder Marathon it's a competition. That's why they built into impractical mini-atx cases last time around. They're trying to challenge their skills and their knowledge, and for that I really admire them.

I mean, it's not like I'm trying to kiss arse in an attempt to win one of the systems, either (I can't as I live in Aus) 🙁
 
I'm not going to entirely agree with El_Capitan, but I can understand that 2500$ for a machine right now seems a little pointless with all the console ports running at 100+ FPS at 2500x1600 and all the pc games getting 45+ FPS at 2500x1600 on the 1250$ machine.

Maybe eyefinity (on the next build) or Nvidia "3d Vision" could be an excuse, but since they're proprietary it kinda undercuts the point of a shootout.
 
@ The Lady Slayer:

I agree, I do admire their wacky out of the ordinary builds sometimes.

4 x Gigabyte GV-R485OC-1GH Radeon HD 4850 in CrossFire
1GB GDDR3-1996 Per Card, 700 MHz GPU

I would have never thought of that for that price range. Definitely a build for Flight Sim X. :)
 
[citation][nom]El_Capitan[/nom]Missed a point in the last comment. Your $650 machine now, then 6 months later, compare a $600 upgrade to that 6 months later $1250 machine. Get a real world analysis of upgrade vs. new build from a price point of view.[/citation]
But that wouldn't be "best bang for buck". would it?

That would just be an upgrade, which I think anyone could do if they wanted to.

Just to throw this out there, though, in April I built a new system and the GPU in my price range was the HD4850. In late July/August I was shocked to hear that the card in my price bracket was now the HD4870.

Can you see how $650 spent 6 months apart can result in totally different systems?
 
If they want a real challenge, next time include the price of the monitor. Same price points. Or include the price of windows 7 OEM. Throw in the cost to buy the programs. muahahahahahah
 
[citation][nom]The Lady Slayer[/nom]But that wouldn't be "best bang for buck". would it?That would just be an upgrade, which I think anyone could do if they wanted to.Just to throw this out there, though, in April I built a new system and the GPU in my price range was the HD4850. In late July/August I was shocked to hear that the card in my price bracket was now the HD4870.Can you see how $650 spent 6 months apart can result in totally different systems?[/citation]

Yeah, I know. Totally different systems. It's hard to do as well. I don't build for what I'll have later, I always build for what I want now (but I'm more budget conscious than an extreme builder). Maybe they should do an System Builder Marathon "upgrade" as well? Or maybe, how much the price of the previous Marathon build would be now, and do a performance comparison between the previous and current. That would really spice things up.
 
As you can see. Dollar for Dollar.....AMD sucks. Also, an i7 build today with the same parts will costs about $300 less. Price of i7, GTX 260, and DDR3 ram has gone down a lot since April.
 
For PC games, I play WoW exclusively. Does anyone know if any of the benchmarks will relate to my WoW experience? I would love to see WoW benchmarked directly, but that request has yet to be fulfilled.

As a side note/question, I tried WoW on the computer I built for my son. It has 2 4870's in Crossfire. I saw no FPS difference using 2 versus 1 card. Any ideas there?

Thanks!
 
The $1300 system from last May now would cost (from Newegg):
DFI LANParty Jr X58-T3H6 Micro-ATX
Intel X58/ICH10R, LGA1366 = $190 from $220

Intel Core i7-920
Four Cores, 2.66 GHz, 8 MB Cache = $279 from $289

G.Skill 10666CL7T 6GBPK
Triple-channel memory kit 3 x 2 GB = $135 from $90

2 x BFG GeForce GTX 260 OC in SLI
896 MB GDDR3-1998 Per Card
590 MHz GPU, 1,296 MHz Shader = $330 from $340

Western Digital Caviar Black
640GD, 640 GB, 32 MB cache = $75 from $75

Lite-On iHAS422 DVD±R
DVD Burner SATA = No longer available from $28 while a Sony Optiarc AD-7240S-0B
DVD Burner SATA = $33

SilverStone TJ08-B Micro-ATX Mini-Tower = $90 from $99

PC Power and Cooling Silencer 750 Quad S75QB, ATX12V 2.2, 80-Plus Certified = No longer available from $120 to PC Power & Cooling S75CF, ATX12V 2.2, 80-Plus Certified = $120

Xigmatek Dark Knight S1283 = No longer available (at Newegg) for $37 from $40

Total now: $1298
Total then: $1296

It's funny, the system was $2 cheaper 4 months ago (G-Skill really ramped up their prices). Compare May's system to September's system, though. Two different computers. I think the Sept $650 would kill the May $600, though.
 
[citation][nom]oneoldgeek[/nom]As a side note/question, I tried WoW on the computer I built for my son. It has 2 4870's in Crossfire. I saw no FPS difference using 2 versus 1 card. Any ideas there?[/citation]

WoW has an easy graphic engine, but since it's an MMO you're going to be limited more by the server response and your internet connection than by the graphic subsystem in that game.
 
I've got half a mind to put those four 4850's in my i7 machine and run a few benchmarks to quell the naysayers.

I wouldn't be surprised that, with the i7 driving it, those four 4850's might really give it to a couple GTX 260s...
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]I've got half a mind to put those four 4850's in my i7 machine and run a few benchmarks to quell the naysayers.I wouldn't be surprised that, with the i7 driving it, those four 4850's might really give it to a couple GTX 260s...[/citation]

But a 1366 socket motherboard that supports that is going to cost ya.
 
When I first saw you put AMD in a $1250 build I thought you were crazy. Then I read on and saw the 4x4850 in there I KNEW you were crazy. And I mean that in a good way. I like the build, if for no other reason then to see how it performs.

Given the recently noted "issues" w/ nvidia outperforming competition & themselves when paired with AMD (as opposed to when paired with Intel), I'd like to see a similar build with their GPUs. Could you out-do performance with less that way?
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]I've got half a mind to put those four 4850's in my i7 machine and run a few benchmarks to quell the naysayers.I wouldn't be surprised that, with the i7 driving it, those four 4850's might really give it to a couple GTX 260s...[/citation]

Do it, do it! We want to see too!
 
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