System Builder Marathon: The $4,500 Super PC

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[citation][nom]power122[/nom]i would like to know is that when you guys(toms builders) put together the cpu,waterblock,and the gpu cards, the missing screw on the top left corner does any bending on the mother board.[/citation]

There isn't a "missing screw". The photo simply shows how all the screws are missalligned with the back of the case, and was taken prior to putting the screws in.

All the screws were later installed, with the motherboard missaligned with the back of the case. The problems are that the cards are not tight against the slot panel, and that the ports are not properly aligned with the holes. The only option left is to "force everything into place".

Forcing things into place isn't an acceptable practice for a high-end system.

Because the motherboard support panel is very thick, the motherboard itself is not bent in the process. What is bent is the mounting brackets on cards, and the back plate of the case. Also, because the ports are not in perfect allignment, the plugs of some PS/2 keyboards will not fit through the hole in the port panel. The only options are to use a USB keyboard, to use a PS/2 keyboard with a smaller plastic shell, to use a PS/2 keyboard with a plastic shell that doesn't cover as much of the metal ring, or to trim the plastic shell of the PS/2 plug.

The site keeps showing the issue in order to push Zalman into correcting it. Tom's hasn't given up on the case yet, because it functions so well with exception to this problem.
 
[citation][nom]cruiseoveride[/nom]Expensive toys.You buy a $4.5k PC, and keep it for what 3 years tops?$4,500.00 / (3x365) = $4.11/day[/citation]

Wow, now that you've worked it out to daily expense...most of us should be able to get at least $5/day enjoyment out of it. A bargain!
 
[citation][nom]master9716[/nom]4500 . Why would anyone spend 800 on a case? I dont really see a point to the article but oh well . New egg does have the best prices out there but mwave does beat it sometimes.[/citation]
for $800 i would expect to have a GREAT Power supply with a voltage modulator & up to 1 hour of power supply after power outage
 
I always liked NeggEgg for most of my stuff but always pays to shop around to get the best selection and price.

99% of the time I get em from NewEgg anyway.
 
[citation][nom]rubix_1011[/nom]You wouldn't want to run water blocks on those RAM modules...it would seriously hinder your flow rate for the entire system. Just get better modules next time...or get the $20 OCZ memory fan that clips over the DIMMs...[/citation]
Dunno about modern watercooling, but on my old eheim I could just add a 't bracket' to create 'two circuits' running off the same pump. That way the ½" tubing for the p4 cpu could have good flow and the chipset, which in this case could've been the ram, would run on 1/8" tubing giving inferior flow, but still cooling better than passive air cooling blocks.

btw. @ crashman : You can add citations from serveral posts at once, so you don't have to spend half a page of posts to address messages. That feature is as unreliable as any in the comments section, but mostly it owrks.
 
I would have bought an Areca hardware raid controller, $399 is not that much when the total is $4500.
And a $800 case? Come on... that's crazy..
 
Why did you guys decide to go with a ATI Format? 3 280GTX's have been known to win out in a lot of your reviews.. Its not uncommen for them to hit 30,000 and above in vantage performance. I know vantage is just another benchmarking program in it's own but with todays most popular games like Farcry 2 and Crysis would'nt a 3 way 280 system be faster for the same price? 280's are down to $399 after MIR
 
First off...$4500 is a massive budget for a high end system.
Sure, you can piss away a lot of money just for the sake of spending it but if you look at the config I built below using the same online retailer Tom's used, I would bet that my config could easily hold its ground in performance tests with the one proposed here.
I have allocated spending in areas I feel would be more approporiate (ie. I didn't spend $800 on a case when there are better places to put that money!).
Please feel free to blast away or use it as a guide to build your own high-end system.


1 LIAN LI PC-P80 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
Item #: N82E16811112159
$399.99

4 SAMSUNG Spinpoint F1 HD103UJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822152102
$479.96 ($119.99 each)

2 DIAMOND 4870X2PE52GXOC Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16814103068
$1,159.98
-$15.00 Instant
$50.00 Mail-in Rebate
$1,129.98
($564.99 each)

1 ASUS Xonar D2X 7.1 Channels PCI Express Interface Sound Card - Retail
Item #: N82E16829132005
$199.99

1 ABS Tagan BZ Series BZ1100 1100W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Patent Piperock Modular Power Supply - Retail
Item #: N82E16817814012
$369.99

1 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
Item #: N82E16835100007
$5.99

2 OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR13334GK - Retail
Item #: N82E16820227293
$471.98
-$15.00 Instant
$20.00 Mail-in Rebate
$441.98
($220.99 each)

1 ASUS Rampage Extreme LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Item #: N82E16813131334
$389.99

1 Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 Wolfdale 3.33GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8600 - Retail
Item #: N82E16819115054
$269.99

1 ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail
Item #: N82E16835118019
$79.99
-$25.00 Instant
$54.99

1 LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner SATA Model GGC-H20LK - OEM
Item #: N82E16827136154
$134.99

Subtotal: $3,877.84

This build still gives you nearly $700 to add other goodies like better SATA cables if needed, LED lighting, additional fans, or other misc things. Notice that I did include good thermal paste in this build and thats never a bad idea!

ENJOY...
 
[citation][nom]jasonelmore[/nom]Why did you guys decide to go with a ATI Format? 3 280GTX's have been known to win out in a lot of your reviews.. Its not uncommen for them to hit 30,000 and above in vantage performance.[/citation]

The Vantage disadvantage will certainly come up in the conclusion.
 


First of all, that instant rebate wasn't available when the system was ordered. Such instant rebates must be considered carefully as they must last at least FOUR WEEKS to be usefull throughout the build, testing, writing, and first week of publishing.

The LQ1000 has superior cooling potential, and Tom's was actually trying for 4.4GHz. Unfortunately, luck of the draw was against it.

The Lian-Li case is nice, but air cooling the processor in such an open design would have resulted in too much noise. Furthermore, the case doesn't support large internal radiators for liquid cooling, and this particular author believes that external radiators are unsightly, ungainly, and damage-prone. Finally, the case is simply too large for a desk, and "not everyone" wants to put their system on the floor.



Nice find, but it wasn't available with a good price and rebate when the order was placed. Also, MAIL IN REBATES DON'T COUNT. Many are fraudulent to begin with, and even if you do get your money back, imagine the realistic scenario: You have EXACTLY $4500 and for an order this large you can make a deal with the seller for free shipping. Now, where are you going to come up with the extra $30 that you plan on getting back...in 2-3 months?



This could be a very nice power supply, but it costs $100 more than the one used. And the one used was more than adequate, since the system pulled around 800W peak.



Reaper HPC modules are better than the ones used. But what's even better are the Kingston modules originally chosen. OCZ modules were picked as a substitute for the Kingston's when the Kingston's sold out.



Not a chance. Asus' "ROG" motherboards almost universally prove themselves inferior to Asus' P5 series in Tom's Hardware's motherboard roundups. Take a look at the X48 roundups, where the P5E3 Premium also had superior memory stability. "ROG" is for looks, for people who would pay more for a riced-out accord than a similarly-performing M5.



E8600 is a GREAT dual-core, but the system was meant for more than just gaming.




What, no BD-RE?

You've specified an very nice gaming system. Unfortunately, at this price many people expect a system to be just as good at everything else.
 
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom][/citation]
I just want to say that comparing processors and video cards to cases doesn't really apply when you're talking about, well anything really. Upgrading a standard say, $100 case to a $800 case doesn't have the same correlation as upgrading a $100 video card to a $500 video card.
 
In an ideal world, a high end case would cost $200, a high-end liquid-cooling kit would cost $200, and the two would fit together perfectly.

But this isn't an ideal world. Most of the high-end cases we find on the market today are floor models, designed for good ventilation and light weight at the cost of noise. There have been a few high-end steel cases that were virtually silent, but they're gone now and they never did support a big radiator. That leaves the LQ1000 as costing 2x as much as people would feel good about paying, but having a few great attributes:

1.) Extra thick panels to isolate noise
2.) 220mm "Silent" intake fan
3.) Huge built-in radiator
4.) Nearly-silent pump
5.) Small enough to sit on a desk
6.) Large enough to hold "Big Boy" hardware

Number 5 and 6 are nearly impossible to find in any other high-end case, but present in some mid-priced cases. Number 1 and 2 are present in a few high-end cases, but those lack 5 and 6. Number 3 and 4 would be nice to apply to any case...except that most cases aren't designed for liquid cooling.
 
When talking about the over heating issues with the RAM trying to run them at speed, why not make use of something like the Koolance Liquid RAM Cooler RAM-30-V06, wouldn't that be able to keep temps cool enough on the ram while tapping that into the Cooler for the CPU still provide enough cooling for both on the W/C system.
 
Is pointless to doubt between RAID 0 or RAID 1.

Intel chipsets allow parallel raid 0 on first partition, and RAID 1 on second partition, utilising the same set of disk. So, with 4 disks, you can have a RAID 0 of 4 disk fisrt partition, and a RAID 0+1 of the second partition on the 4 disks.
 
So - I must be WAY behind the times. Because I still consider a BR-DVD burner to be in the same category as Blue Cold Cathodes and Blinking Fans. The media is to expensive, the burn times are too slow, the drives are finicky and coaster far too often. It's like buying a 2x or 4x burner back in the wild west days - it was never worth the extra investment to be on the leading edge of that technology. Spend 150$ on something else, please.
 
So if all the Kit that newegg supplies to Tom's go's back to them i wonder how much of that kit is then sold as new even though it has been used. Seems rather dodgy on a consumer purchasing law front to me....
 
[citation][nom]Plasmastorm[/nom]So if all the Kit that newegg supplies to Tom's go's back to them i wonder how much of that kit is then sold as new even though it has been used. Seems rather dodgy on a consumer purchasing law front to me....[/citation]

It hasn't occured to you that Newegg sells "Refurbished" parts?
 
This system just begs for four 120GB Intel SSD drives to be used in a RAID 0 in a "just so you know" comparison against the 1TB drives. I think people should see just how much of a performance loss that mechanical hard drives are responsible for.
 
the $800 case is very elegant.
with that much budget, i would have done the same. for a person with money, his preference will be less noise and less space. long before, i'm not amazed with tower cases with lots of fans.
one thing the system could have saved is in memory...
i've read here that no program could address 2 gigabytes of memory space. upgrading a 4Gb to 8Gb system memory in the future is indeed more efficient.
i agree above, single or raid intel ssd in the system is very interesting.
 
[citation][nom]zodiacfml[/nom]one thing the system could have saved is in memory...i've read here that no program could address 2 gigabytes of memory space. upgrading a 4Gb to 8Gb system memory in the future is indeed more efficient.i agree above, single or raid intel ssd in the system is very interesting.[/citation]
The 2GB limit is for 32-bit apps running under 32-bit Windows. 32-bit apps running under 64-bit Windows can map an entire 4GB. Also, 64-bit apps can access at least 2PB of memory on 64-bit Windows. Believe it or not, with Moore's Law we'll have full-boat 64-bit memory systems within 20 years (equivalent to the 32-bit cycle starting in the mid 80's).
 
I'm really curious to see how something like the Fusion-io ioDrive would work in this system. Seems like there are a handful of these new PCI express SSD hard drives but there really isn't much investigation on them.
 
Why isn't the monitor dealt with in these system builds? Monitors seem to be improving along with the other gear, although perhaps not as quickly. Still, it's an essential component; we are supposed to just scrounge up one that's been in use when all the other parts are new? Also, what about the Seagate Cheetah 15K.6 for use as hard drives in the $4500 build?
 
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