TEC/Peltier CPU Chilled Water Cooling

[computers_are_freaky]

Please note that, as I've said before, I live in Italy, and here it is completely ILLEGAL for anyone under 16 to be paid at ALL!! It is incredibly unfair, and in order to build my current setup I had to budget like crazy and spent the best part of a month calculating the best possible bang for the buck, then I spend most of the black friday weekend online looking at every deal. I also had been saving up my little amount of income (0.50€ for walking the dog and 1€ for completely cleaning my room, each only once a week), however, I turned 16 last week and have already got a small job with my neighbour, earning me 5€ on a saturday afternoon. I also have 3 months during the summer to find a full time job.

In addition to all of this, I like to think I'm quite resourceful, and have been looking into all sorts of things to pull this off, from solar power to basic thermal dynamics. I have got a friend who will make me anything on a CNC for just a few euros + material costs, and I'm working on ways to cut back even more. I reckon I could build a geto system for give or take 300€, including solar panels, battery setup, blocks and pump.

I say I won't have an unlocked CPU in the coming years, because I am running a h81 mobo and an i3 4170, so my next step will be to throw in a xeon 1231 rather than changing the whole platform. I also know that titans cost 1000$ and around 100$ for the waterblock. I have seen youtube vids from a guy with 3 in a high end watercooling loop, so I know you can get a lot more performance.

Please don't think I'm here just to ask dumb questions and brag about knowing this stuff, I'm actually really interested. I just have my own unique set of problems, and from what I've seen, so has everyone whos tried this, for example you where the first, and everyone thought it wouldn't work (even though it already did), toolmake is dealing with a vacuum pump and a huge build.
My main problem is that I can't run it off my house power grid and I don't have much cash, but I'm sure I can find a way around my problems, just like you guys have/are.

 

[4Ryan6]

I wish when I was 16 years old that I could have been given a glimpse of the future and go back and make some changes in my life and one of the things I have had to learn the hard way is learning how to live within my means and being satisfied with what I have, and what I can do with it.

Looking wishing, learning, and dreaming, are what life is all about, but if those desires begin to rule you, you will always want more than you have, and never learn the patience of saving money for what you desire to have, so it's nice to see you are doing that.

Since we live in a false illusion world of owning things that credit has allowed you to have, the true false illusion is you do not truly own what you think you do, the bank or lending facility does.

Saving for what you want even has advantages of giving you the time to really think about whether you really want to let that money go when you have enough to buy it, and completely kills impulsive buying that credit so freely gives to the detriment of this entire world.

We live in a credit driven society that will be the downfall of our civilization as we know it.

I respect that you have to save for everything you're getting I just hope that is your choice and not forced upon you.

If saving is your choice then you will always do it, but if not, when the day comes you can take advantage of the credit trap, you may make some serious mistakes that takes years and years to get out of, and that can rob you of your peace and joy in life!

That sir is what I wish I had learned when I was younger, Good Luck To You! Ryan

 

[computers_are_freaky]

Thank you, that is truly inspiring and I completely agree.

 

[toolmaker_03]

I wish when I was 16 years old that I could have been given a glimpse of the future and go back and make some changes in my life and one of the things I have had to learn the hard way is learning how to live within my means and being satisfied with what I have, and what I can do with it.

Looking wishing, learning, and dreaming, are what life is all about, but if those desires begin to rule you, you will always want more than you have, and never learn the patience of saving money for what you desire to have, so it's nice to see you are doing that.

Since we live in a false illusion world of owning things that credit has allowed you to have, the true false illusion is you do not truly own what you think you do, the bank or lending facility does.

Saving for what you want even has advantages of giving you the time to really think about whether you really want to let that money go when you have enough to buy it, and completely kills impulsive buying that credit so freely gives to the detriment of this entire world.

We live in a credit driven society that will be the downfall of our civilization as we know it.

I respect that you have to save for everything you're getting I just hope that is your choice and not forced upon you.

If saving is your choice then you will always do it, but if not, when the day comes you can take advantage of the credit trap, you may make some serious mistakes that takes years and years to get out of, and that can rob you of your peace and joy in life!

That sir is what I wish I had learned when I was younger, Good Luck To You! Ryan

+1
I was lucky, I got screwed by the banks at a young age, I learned the hard way, and lived in a van for years until I had saved enough to buy a small lot and trailer outright. still live there now, and still live by that same principle, if I don't have enough for it, I wont use credit, or take a lone to get it, I will save until I can afford it. Sometimes by the time I get there, I don't want it anymore.

 

[4Ryan6]

Thank you, that is truly inspiring and I completely agree.

You are so Welcome!

 

[4Ryan6]

Sometimes by the time I get there, I don't want it anymore.

That is so true!

 

[toolmaker_03]

well it seems that most builders prefer this kind of build, when creating the TEC water chiller, rather than the complicated version I am building. :lol:

I have sent several people to your thread as there questions where more about running the system without condensation.

maybe after I have had it up and running for a few years, it will become something others would be more willing to try.

 

[computers_are_freaky]

I wonder why... :lol:
I think that, when you are in that grey area between doing something and giving it a pass, then seeing whether someone else succeeds or fails could be the deciding vote. Plus, knowing that it is feasable or a fantasy is often a great motivation, one way or the other. It is also a considerable sum of money for most people, so rushing in might not be the best idea.
I bet you will get a few people contacting you when you're done for more details

 

[4Ryan6]

well it seems that most builders prefer this kind of build, when creating the TEC water chiller, rather than the complicated version I am building. :lol:

I have sent several people to your thread as there questions where more about running the system without condensation.

maybe after I have had it up and running for a few years, it will become something others would be more willing to try.

Until it's fully operational you don't know what's going to happen, it may be smooth sailing, or instantly back to the drawing board?

 

[computers_are_freaky]

Very true.
I doubt it will come to that though (back to the drawing board), the physics seems sound and the concept is tried and tested, so I believe that if there is a problem, you will be able to overcome it.

 

[4Ryan6]

Very true.
I doubt it will come to that though (back to the drawing board), the physics seems sound and the concept is tried and tested, so I believe that if there is a problem, you will be able to overcome it.

Actually that's what I mean when I say going back to the drawing board, if he is determined enough he will overcome it, however sometimes ideas need major fine tuning before they actually work.

The cooling covered by this thread took a long time, and a lot of trial and error to reach, there were many ideas that seemed great at the time that had to be dropped because they did not work.

This thread covers the success so it can be duplicated by others if they so choose to do so, it does not cover all the times I went back to the drawing board through my experimentation.

This threads cooling is also micro scaled in hardware, utility expense, and time consumption, compared to what toolmaker_03 is undertaking, and he will have to have tenacity to see it through to success.

Sometimes I wonder what's the purpose though for all his endeavors, the cooling this thread details can already support a stable 5ghz overclock, which for the longest time seems to be his stated goal, however even if he reaches 6ghz stable, the voltage required to reach 6ghz will only remain stable if he leaves his setup on all the time.

My cooling is extreme, energy consumption wise, but the power he will be pulling to run his setup 24/7 I really don't think he fully has grasped yet, even though he has rewired his home to support it.

There's a big difference between a viable operational cooling setup that the additional utility expense is worth it for the overclock gain, vs., a grand scale science experiment that cost too much to run for the gain.

Will it deliver? I hope so!

However I flat guarantee you if it runs cool enough to support a 6ghz overclock with the machine running 24/7 if for any reason he has to shut it down, he will have to drop back to default clocks and voltage, until the coolant on a restart reaches low enough temperatures to sustain the high overclock.

If for any reason he attempts to boot the CPU with the voltage applied to support a 6ghz overclock, with the coolant temperatures anywhere near ambient, he will probably fry the CPU.

 

[computers_are_freaky]

He could use your method of turning on the cooling x amount of time before the rest of the system, or maybe there is some software that would let you apply the overclock only after the temps are low enough, but then you couldn't use the BIOS for OC, so I don't know.

 

[4Ryan6]

He could use your method of turning on the cooling x amount of time before the rest of the system, or maybe there is some software that would let you apply the overclock only after the temps are low enough, but then you couldn't use the BIOS for OC, so I don't know.

After my setup has been off all night when I boot in the AM my coolant temperature has risen to ambient, at first boot I am stable enough to surf the net, but not stable enough to run intensive games or any stress testing, it has to drop to 5c below ambient to be stable for those things.

Traditional water cooling, or air cooling, starts at ambient temperature and rises to an equilibrium DeltaT number which is on the plus side of ambient, for any traditional water cooled machine to be able to run a 0 DeltaT, requires a massive radiator cooling field to do the job.

I'll go out on a limb and say, if you had enough radiator cooling field to run a solid 0 DeltaT, with a 5ghz CPU overclock, you would have enough money invested in radiators that you could have built my chilled water cooling cheaper.

Traditional radiator water cooling boots and the coolant temperature rises, chilled water cooling boots and the coolant temperature drops, so when I boot my machine, I am booting at a 0 DeltaT which will support my 5ghz overclock.

Presently at this time of writing this, I am running at a -16.5c DeltaT, so I am operating in a range of temperatures below the CPU ambient design factors, does that make your light bulb in your head come on.

I run my CPU with Hyper Threading disabled and it takes 1.375v to do that stable, it takes 1.395v to run with Hyper Threading enabled, but for the applications I run, Hyper Threading has served no testable end result advantage, and in some applications Hyper Threading actually hurts performance.

My point is, the voltage it would take to run my CPU at 6ghz would be in the sub zero area lower than -20c, and that translates to a minimum of -36.5c DeltaT, and probably a voltage in excess of 1.600v, which is an estimation of what it would take, using what I've learned with my present voltage requirements to run 5ghz.

What I am saying is if I was going to run the cooling toolmaker_03 is, 6ghz would be my overclock goal!

IMO, There has to be a point that the ends justify the means, or why do it at all!

Toolmaker_03, has a lot to learn ahead of him but he's not going to discover that until he has it all finished and powers it all up, then his learning curve begins.

 

[computers_are_freaky]

I understand. I was thinking that all toolmaker has to do for 6Ghz is make sure to turn his cooling setup on 1 hour or so before he boots up the actual PC, that way the coolant is already at -20°C or whatever his planned temps will be.

I though I remembered a previous post, where you said you turned your cooling system on a half hour before the rest of the PC, I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[4Ryan6]

I understand. I was thinking that all toolmaker has to do for 6Ghz is make sure to turn his cooling setup on 1 hour or so before he boots up the actual PC, that way the coolant is already at -20°C or whatever his planned temps will be.

I though I remembered a previous post, where you said you turned your cooling system on a half hour before the rest of the PC, I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

If he does that he is going to run into cold boot problems with the CPU, the reason I don't have any cold boot problems is I boot at ambient and drop down from there, the CPU is fully heated up and operational by the time the the cold temperatures have dropped down to 5ghz stable run temperatures.

It gradually drops and doesn't shock the CPU.

What I said in a previous post is I boot the entire machine not just the cooling, and the chilled water begins dropping until it reaches my 10c operational temperature, which takes about 20 minutes.

 

[computers_are_freaky]

Ok, sorry about that. Maybe there is some software out there, or code it yourself if you know how, so that the cpus voltage draw is restricted until temps are acceptible, sort of like thermal throttling, but at acceptable temps without risking the CPU (if coolant_temp>60°C then cpu_voltage_max=1V, else cpu_voltage_max=1.6V or something similar).

 

[4Ryan6]

Ok, sorry about that. Maybe there is some software out there, or code it yourself if you know how, so that the cpus voltage draw is restricted until temps are acceptible, sort of like thermal throttling, but at acceptable temps without risking the CPU (if coolant_temp>60°C then cpu_voltage_max=1V, else cpu_voltage_max=1.6V or something similar).

He will have to resolve that himself.

 

[4Ryan6]

Once toolmaker_03 is up and running he will have a lot to balance out, that will not make itself evident until it is operational, he has definitely tried to plan for many possibilities, but it may very well be over planning, and preparing, that may bite him.

Personally, I would have got the system 100% up and running, before applying all that clay, observe the operation of everything, seen where the clay may have been necessary and then apply it, he may have air tested all the fittings for leaks, but not at the temperatures they'll be reaching?

I am extremely cautious because of all the things I myself learned the hard way, that seemed like a great idea at the time but wasn't, so after discovering the idea was a failure, it was learn from it and go forward, or give up and quit, I was not going to give up, because I had already learned enough of what did work to know it was possible, just modify the approach to the end goal.

"The more they complicate the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Mr. Scott. USS Enterprise, Star Trek III, Search for Spock

 

[toolmaker_03]

well in the end this build is functional, and works well at the desired temps.
I will try to have the diligence, you have had through this build, so that I can create a functional build as well.
I'm like two months out now, maybe a little more. lots to learn once it's running.

 

[4Ryan6]

well in the end this build is functional, and works well at the desired temps.
I will try to have the diligence, you have had through this build, so that I can create a functional build as well.
I'm like two months out now, maybe a little more. lots to learn once it's running.

I've been watching your progress almost everyday, I thought you were closer to finishing than two months away?

 

[computers_are_freaky]

Same, I thought it would be up and running by the end of april at this rate. Are you including the flowmeter (can't remember exact name, but you know what I mean) experiments in your estimate?

 

[toolmaker_03]

really?
well if I keep the same pace, yea it's like 2 months to finish.
that's why I said maybe a little more, life gets in the way sometimes.
not that I am foreseeing any delays, but life happens, and I may be forced to deal with it. :lol:

 

[4Ryan6]

After looking at that bundle of wires you are planning on going through the cooler wall, how the heck are you going to seal all of that, to be able to pull a leak free vacuum on the cooler?

 

[4Ryan6]

This chilled water cooling is now past 3 years and 3 months in operation!

 

[toolmaker_03]

sealing the ice chest?
will be done in stages the first stage is easy I will pack eraser putty in between all the wires, then I will cover that in clay to make the foundation strong enough to hold the silicon, than I will cover the silicon in flex seal spray on rubber. wait about three days for it all to cure well.

the next section takes a little longer.
I will turn the vacuum pump and adjust my 2 X 1/4 turn valves so that I am holding just a slight vacuum on the chamber with the pump on and I will spray flex seal into the backs of all the connectors that are on the out side of the ice chest.
I will then release the vacuum on the ice chest and let it sit for 3 days again.
I will then try a vacuum test on the chest to see if it will hold a slight vacuum for 3 days. if it does not hold a vacuum I will use smoke to locate with wire connections are causing the issue. I will take the connector apart, solder the wires, and reassemble the connector. I will spray the connector with flex seal and try again to see if it will hold a vacuum.