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moejoe4420
Distinguished
- Oct 20, 2009
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Hell it could be slower than Windows & it wouldn't matter. I only use it for work the CANNOT be interrupted by crashes, worms, trojans, and all the other nonsense that comes with Windows. But I still keep a strong PC. Just for games. It's my toy computer.
If m$ fankiddies aren't stupid enough, here is their latest gem:
a MAC is "a proprietary hardware limited system".
fankiddies, for the last years, since Apple's transition to intel architecture, MACs are just plain PC's, the main difference is just using EFI instead of BIOS, as TFBundy already pointed out (as a sidenote microsuxx dropped EFI support in vi$hta32, was it for not running on the new intel macs?) - that's why there are hackintoshes (you can get these as cheap as you want, with standard PC parts). And, of course, there is limited support for non-Apple HW, as many manufacturers don't bother to offer it for OS-X.
a MAC is "a proprietary hardware limited system".
fankiddies, for the last years, since Apple's transition to intel architecture, MACs are just plain PC's, the main difference is just using EFI instead of BIOS, as TFBundy already pointed out (as a sidenote microsuxx dropped EFI support in vi$hta32, was it for not running on the new intel macs?) - that's why there are hackintoshes (you can get these as cheap as you want, with standard PC parts). And, of course, there is limited support for non-Apple HW, as many manufacturers don't bother to offer it for OS-X.
@ossie : than I will say this...
If Apple fankiddies aren't stupid enough, here is their latest gem :
Apple don't have Virus, worms, trojans and all other.
My notebook and PC, free from all that thing from the moment I bought it.
And I always said like this to the people got virus : "When you got a virus, and you mad because it. Then learn more about PC!!!"
If you not learn more, than you will never smart.
And if you don't want virus, I always recommend Linux.
Why pay more if you can get it for free???
If Apple fankiddies aren't stupid enough, here is their latest gem :
Apple don't have Virus, worms, trojans and all other.
My notebook and PC, free from all that thing from the moment I bought it.
And I always said like this to the people got virus : "When you got a virus, and you mad because it. Then learn more about PC!!!"
If you not learn more, than you will never smart.
And if you don't want virus, I always recommend Linux.
Why pay more if you can get it for free???
@bnd1989
Their gem is quite old, and historically proven mostly right. Did you ever hear of a virus/worm/trojan outbreak on macs? The gamer/drm o$ makes regularly headlines on that. And don't come with the greater luser base argument, most internet servers are running *nixes 24/7, and still m$'s crap is hit hard.
If there weren't some notoriously vulnerable apps from apple, which affect only the luser account under which they're run from, the underlying BSD Unix is quite resilient, unlike microsuxx' windblow$, the "multi"-tasking/lu$er GUI DOS o$.
You must be kidding, virus-free "PC" (all are PCs, just look up the definition, beginning with the first 8008, and continuing with 808x/680x/z80, and so on - btw, even your NB is still a PC) aka wintel is an oxymoron.
You almost hit the nail with Linux, even if you can hose the used account with some malware, picked up from the internet (browsers are still too vulnerable, especially with some dubious extensions - but m$'s exploder is still the no. 1 failure). I assume you never heard of rootkits... (practically the most encountered malware for *nixes, even if quite rarely)
Generally, BSD/Linux is the safest today, followed closely by OS-X.
Their gem is quite old, and historically proven mostly right. Did you ever hear of a virus/worm/trojan outbreak on macs? The gamer/drm o$ makes regularly headlines on that. And don't come with the greater luser base argument, most internet servers are running *nixes 24/7, and still m$'s crap is hit hard.
If there weren't some notoriously vulnerable apps from apple, which affect only the luser account under which they're run from, the underlying BSD Unix is quite resilient, unlike microsuxx' windblow$, the "multi"-tasking/lu$er GUI DOS o$.
You must be kidding, virus-free "PC" (all are PCs, just look up the definition, beginning with the first 8008, and continuing with 808x/680x/z80, and so on - btw, even your NB is still a PC) aka wintel is an oxymoron.
You almost hit the nail with Linux, even if you can hose the used account with some malware, picked up from the internet (browsers are still too vulnerable, especially with some dubious extensions - but m$'s exploder is still the no. 1 failure). I assume you never heard of rootkits... (practically the most encountered malware for *nixes, even if quite rarely)
Generally, BSD/Linux is the safest today, followed closely by OS-X.
jimmysmitty
Champion
- Oct 5, 2007
- 21,595
- 594
- 59,140
[citation][nom]etichi[/nom]The point is Apple wrote better software than Microsoft. And yes, it means they wrote BETTER algorithms. They solved the problem with more computer science aptitude than the folks at Microsoft. In programming contests this is often a metric: speed. And this case. MS loses (again)You can't solve all problems by throwing faster hardware at it. Software is where its at, always will be.[/citation]
Testing a OS on a sytem that is not built for it but built for the other does not mean faster software.
For one, the motherboard itself is 100% Apple proprietary meaning it was designed just for Macs and certain CPUs/GPUs.
If they took a PC based laptop and actually put Windows 7 on there and used more than just iTunes (which sucks anyways in encoding speeds even to WMP) to test some things it would have been fine. but instead they used Apple software while emulating Windows 7 partitions in a program written by Apple.
Do you think that Apple created bootcamp and didn't think to hinder Windows performance. Why would people buy a Mac and notice that Windows was faster and use OSX?
Wf people saw Windows doing the same things as OSX but faster, I would think they would stick to Windows.
Still, biased tests. Until they get a PC based laptop with the same hardware and test each one, you cannot take this for 100%.
Testing a OS on a sytem that is not built for it but built for the other does not mean faster software.
For one, the motherboard itself is 100% Apple proprietary meaning it was designed just for Macs and certain CPUs/GPUs.
If they took a PC based laptop and actually put Windows 7 on there and used more than just iTunes (which sucks anyways in encoding speeds even to WMP) to test some things it would have been fine. but instead they used Apple software while emulating Windows 7 partitions in a program written by Apple.
Do you think that Apple created bootcamp and didn't think to hinder Windows performance. Why would people buy a Mac and notice that Windows was faster and use OSX?
Wf people saw Windows doing the same things as OSX but faster, I would think they would stick to Windows.
Still, biased tests. Until they get a PC based laptop with the same hardware and test each one, you cannot take this for 100%.
@ossie
Our talk maybe a little Out of Topic here, but I want to clear something.
My point is, if you give up when you face something like virus and don't want to learn how to handle it, then you will never get new knowledge.
Free from virus? Of course you can do it. Google it and you will find million of article to avoid Virus, worm, and trojan and how to clean your windows from Virus.
What is the requirement?
You just need to learn.
Will my windows always free from Virus, worm, and trojan?
I will answer, "No!" someday, somewhere, my PC will get infected. when that time come, I will learn how to clean it. But for right now my PC 100% safe.
Will OS-X got a virus?
If you say "No!" Than I will say that you're a naive person. And if that time come, will you give up again? Or you will buy
Linux is great. But it also make more effort to learn it.
OS-X??? to me it's also great. But you must to learn it too and you will cost more.---> (we're not going to debate this topic okay.)
Our talk maybe a little Out of Topic here, but I want to clear something.
My point is, if you give up when you face something like virus and don't want to learn how to handle it, then you will never get new knowledge.
Free from virus? Of course you can do it. Google it and you will find million of article to avoid Virus, worm, and trojan and how to clean your windows from Virus.
What is the requirement?
You just need to learn.
Will my windows always free from Virus, worm, and trojan?
I will answer, "No!" someday, somewhere, my PC will get infected. when that time come, I will learn how to clean it. But for right now my PC 100% safe.
Will OS-X got a virus?
If you say "No!" Than I will say that you're a naive person. And if that time come, will you give up again? Or you will buy
Linux is great. But it also make more effort to learn it.
OS-X??? to me it's also great. But you must to learn it too and you will cost more.---> (we're not going to debate this topic okay.)
damn... I'm not finished yet, but accidentally click the submit button.
Where is the delete button???
@ossie
Our talk maybe a little Out of Topic here, but I want to clear something.
My point is, if you give up when you face something like virus and don't want to learn how to handle it, then you will never get new knowledge.
Free from virus? Of course you can do it. Google it and you will find million of article to avoid Virus, worm, and trojan and how to clean your windows from Virus.
What is the requirement?
You just need to learn.
Will my windows always free from Virus, worm, and trojan?
I will answer, "No!" someday, somewhere, my PC will get infected. when that time come, I will learn how to clean it. But right now my PC 100% safe.
Will OS-X got a virus?
If you say "No!" Than I will say that you're a naive person. And if that time come, will you give up again? Or you will buy another OS??? Or will you learn to clean it???
Rootkits??? I don't understand what's your point here.
Every OS got rootkits.
So what???
Browser? Well, I will tell you that I never use IE. I use Mozilla on all OS I had (Win 7 RC, Ubuntu, and Snow Leopard that my brother Have), but Safari Got a Hole too. So what?
Linux is great. But it also make more effort to learn it.
OS-X??? to me it's also great. But you must to learn it too and you will cost more.---> (we're not going to debate this topic okay.)
So the conclusion is : "Learn!!! And you will survive in this world."
---------------------------------------------------
So back to the title "Test Shows Snow Leopard is Faster Than Win 7". We need TomsHardware to do some testing here. I want to know the truth who is better here. If Mac better than I will gladly accept that Mac is better, but if Win 7 better then say Win 7 better.
We need fair test here. And both sides must accept the fact.
And this is what I want to write actually. Please, forget my previous comment.
Where is the delete button???
@ossie
Our talk maybe a little Out of Topic here, but I want to clear something.
My point is, if you give up when you face something like virus and don't want to learn how to handle it, then you will never get new knowledge.
Free from virus? Of course you can do it. Google it and you will find million of article to avoid Virus, worm, and trojan and how to clean your windows from Virus.
What is the requirement?
You just need to learn.
Will my windows always free from Virus, worm, and trojan?
I will answer, "No!" someday, somewhere, my PC will get infected. when that time come, I will learn how to clean it. But right now my PC 100% safe.
Will OS-X got a virus?
If you say "No!" Than I will say that you're a naive person. And if that time come, will you give up again? Or you will buy another OS??? Or will you learn to clean it???
Rootkits??? I don't understand what's your point here.
Every OS got rootkits.
So what???
Browser? Well, I will tell you that I never use IE. I use Mozilla on all OS I had (Win 7 RC, Ubuntu, and Snow Leopard that my brother Have), but Safari Got a Hole too. So what?
Linux is great. But it also make more effort to learn it.
OS-X??? to me it's also great. But you must to learn it too and you will cost more.---> (we're not going to debate this topic okay.)
So the conclusion is : "Learn!!! And you will survive in this world."
---------------------------------------------------
So back to the title "Test Shows Snow Leopard is Faster Than Win 7". We need TomsHardware to do some testing here. I want to know the truth who is better here. If Mac better than I will gladly accept that Mac is better, but if Win 7 better then say Win 7 better.
We need fair test here. And both sides must accept the fact.
And this is what I want to write actually. Please, forget my previous comment.
@bnd1989
If you try to suggest the "what doesn't kill you, makes you strong" approach works that way, you're wrong. In windblow$ case (and m$ crap in general) it just heightens the pain threshold, so that lu$ers get used to it:
"Microsoft's biggest and most dangerous contribution to the software industry may be the degree to which it has lowered user expectations."
What would you expect from microsuxx, if it's "chief architect" claims that: "Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey.", and most m$ junk targets that audience?
What real knowledge do you expect to get, by pushing "ok", "next", and "accept", or "continue" buttons, in using so called AV products?
They don't offer any real protection, just a false sense of "security".
If you really care, learn more about the inner workings of the tools (HW or SW) you're using, or you'll remain just another member of the ignorant masses, dumbed down by the consumer society.
Today's luser-friendly GUIs just promote irresponsibility, the monkey keeps pushing buttons, without any clue on the effects of it's actions.
The only viable options of learning, is to use an OS that permits you to peek into it's inner workings: BSD/Linux are about the only modern choices.
Getting back on-topic, it's enough to compare a slick BSD kernel to the drm ridden windblow$ one to know where the efficiency (lack) lies. You should also take into consideration that the time spent in the kernel (system calls & co.) is normally well under 10%. If such high application execution time discrepancies arise (~20%), then you should multiply them by at least 10 to compare the real efficiency of an OS. That pictures a very grim image on windblow$ current state.
Tests have proven that the server flavor of m$ products is about 20% faster than the drm/gamer one.
Also, I personally used a compute intensive win32 console executable more than 5 years ago, and it was running at least 10% faster under linux/wine (2.4 series kernel) than on windblow$ xpire, on the same machine. vi$hta/$even are even slower, with much higher overhead (hint: drm).
TH and fair tests? You must be kidding...
If you try to suggest the "what doesn't kill you, makes you strong" approach works that way, you're wrong. In windblow$ case (and m$ crap in general) it just heightens the pain threshold, so that lu$ers get used to it:
"Microsoft's biggest and most dangerous contribution to the software industry may be the degree to which it has lowered user expectations."
What would you expect from microsuxx, if it's "chief architect" claims that: "Let's face it, the average computer user has the brain of a Spider Monkey.", and most m$ junk targets that audience?
What real knowledge do you expect to get, by pushing "ok", "next", and "accept", or "continue" buttons, in using so called AV products?
They don't offer any real protection, just a false sense of "security".
If you really care, learn more about the inner workings of the tools (HW or SW) you're using, or you'll remain just another member of the ignorant masses, dumbed down by the consumer society.
Today's luser-friendly GUIs just promote irresponsibility, the monkey keeps pushing buttons, without any clue on the effects of it's actions.
The only viable options of learning, is to use an OS that permits you to peek into it's inner workings: BSD/Linux are about the only modern choices.
Getting back on-topic, it's enough to compare a slick BSD kernel to the drm ridden windblow$ one to know where the efficiency (lack) lies. You should also take into consideration that the time spent in the kernel (system calls & co.) is normally well under 10%. If such high application execution time discrepancies arise (~20%), then you should multiply them by at least 10 to compare the real efficiency of an OS. That pictures a very grim image on windblow$ current state.
Tests have proven that the server flavor of m$ products is about 20% faster than the drm/gamer one.
Also, I personally used a compute intensive win32 console executable more than 5 years ago, and it was running at least 10% faster under linux/wine (2.4 series kernel) than on windblow$ xpire, on the same machine. vi$hta/$even are even slower, with much higher overhead (hint: drm).
TH and fair tests? You must be kidding...
rajaton
Distinguished
- Oct 15, 2009
- 47
- 0
- 18,530
After watching all the tech stuff flying around here, I still say that I want to use something that works. Mac doesn't work the way I want it to, nor does it perform as well as my PC. To get the equivalent one would cost much more, and that is not debatable. Most users( Average Joes if you will) just want something that they know how to use and don't have lots of problems. Not that I'm saying M$ is problem free, you just generally get more help with it rather than Apple which basically thinks that it is problem free. My personal experience with Mac may be different than others, but it is my experience and I base my opinion on it.
That's interesting because my version of Windows 7 RTM 64-bit performs way better than my version of OSX on the same hardware. Except I put each OS on it's own clean drive. I didn't use bootcamp, but hey bootcamp is just as good as a fresh dedicated drive amirite?
@ossie : hmmm... so what do you get from virus is just "ok", "next", and "accept", or "continue" buttons?
then I will tell you there is a lot more article to tell you how to avoid virus and to clean some virus manually.
It don't make you smarter?
then do this : learn the concept, learn how virus in PC works, learn how they create it.
If you don't have time to do it and you're average user. At least learn how virus work and the concept.
Will you proud when apple "chief architect" claim that Mac user have High IQ? Will you stop learning when he said that? When you Generalize that statement and accept it, even in here I have some (sorry) idiot friends who use Mac to watch movie.
Security isn't something you buy and forget. Even Mac too.
peek into it's inner workings? You don't have to go that far for average user. But if you're Pro then go with linux or BSD.
TH and fair testing? Looks like in the short time it can not happen. Look the next article write by Tuan Nguyen.
But I still want fair test between this two OS. I don't care about boot and shutdown time.
I care about how much time I must waste to convert file, how many FPS I got for gaming and all other thing. And this test must use third party software.
then I will tell you there is a lot more article to tell you how to avoid virus and to clean some virus manually.
It don't make you smarter?
then do this : learn the concept, learn how virus in PC works, learn how they create it.
If you don't have time to do it and you're average user. At least learn how virus work and the concept.
Will you proud when apple "chief architect" claim that Mac user have High IQ? Will you stop learning when he said that? When you Generalize that statement and accept it, even in here I have some (sorry) idiot friends who use Mac to watch movie.
Security isn't something you buy and forget. Even Mac too.
peek into it's inner workings? You don't have to go that far for average user. But if you're Pro then go with linux or BSD.
TH and fair testing? Looks like in the short time it can not happen. Look the next article write by Tuan Nguyen.
But I still want fair test between this two OS. I don't care about boot and shutdown time.
I care about how much time I must waste to convert file, how many FPS I got for gaming and all other thing. And this test must use third party software.
@bnd1989
AV usage mostly resumes at button clicking, if at all. By "manually cleaning" you mean hijackthis & co.? The single "manual" interaction still resumes to clicking "fix checked" or not, just that you have a somewhat larger pool of targets to choose from (and could eventually ask someone more knowledgeable on forums for help, and not deleting useful stuff).
Don't tell me you're browsing the registry (one of the biggest me$$es created by m$), or the filesystem (also not much lees me$$y), to find dubious entries/files (for more of 99% of these, you don't have the slightest clue, what they're for).
Almost exclusively, "protection" offered today for windblow$ is just some internal, or 3rd party app, which scans for known fingerprints/symptoms.
If you need real protection (never 100%), then you must use an OS with a secure layered architecture (m$'s schweitzer cheese doesn't apply), and sane usage habits.
I really don't feel any smarter at all, by using these techniques to clean the mess on some windumbed system, at most I've gathered more experience.
Due to m$'s style of undocumented system calls usage (it's nice - for microsuxx - to have some hidden aces up the sleeve), it's quite difficult to follow what (knowledgeable) virus writers are doing - also this is getting into a very specialized field, for which I have no attraction (have better things to do than clean m$'s me$$).
It doesn't make me "proud", whatever the "other Stevie" is saying about his lusers (I'm not one), but most macs are bought by people with above average sized pockets, with in itself correlates well with higher IQ (with the notable exception of retarded kids of rich parents). As a sidenote: high IQ is not obligatory associated with high IT skills.
Regarding OS comparing, you're still coming up with niche applications: conversions, gaming... You can't make a true comparison, without taking into account all possible applications to use, and even then it mostly depends on the app itself, than on the OS. It's much easier (and fair) to compare OSs (in combination with the desired apps) for a (few) specific purpose(s) you're interested in, to make your decision. There is no "fits all" solution, as m$ & fankiddies are trying to impose on everyone.
AV usage mostly resumes at button clicking, if at all. By "manually cleaning" you mean hijackthis & co.? The single "manual" interaction still resumes to clicking "fix checked" or not, just that you have a somewhat larger pool of targets to choose from (and could eventually ask someone more knowledgeable on forums for help, and not deleting useful stuff).
Don't tell me you're browsing the registry (one of the biggest me$$es created by m$), or the filesystem (also not much lees me$$y), to find dubious entries/files (for more of 99% of these, you don't have the slightest clue, what they're for).
Almost exclusively, "protection" offered today for windblow$ is just some internal, or 3rd party app, which scans for known fingerprints/symptoms.
If you need real protection (never 100%), then you must use an OS with a secure layered architecture (m$'s schweitzer cheese doesn't apply), and sane usage habits.
I really don't feel any smarter at all, by using these techniques to clean the mess on some windumbed system, at most I've gathered more experience.
Due to m$'s style of undocumented system calls usage (it's nice - for microsuxx - to have some hidden aces up the sleeve), it's quite difficult to follow what (knowledgeable) virus writers are doing - also this is getting into a very specialized field, for which I have no attraction (have better things to do than clean m$'s me$$).
It doesn't make me "proud", whatever the "other Stevie" is saying about his lusers (I'm not one), but most macs are bought by people with above average sized pockets, with in itself correlates well with higher IQ (with the notable exception of retarded kids of rich parents). As a sidenote: high IQ is not obligatory associated with high IT skills.
Regarding OS comparing, you're still coming up with niche applications: conversions, gaming... You can't make a true comparison, without taking into account all possible applications to use, and even then it mostly depends on the app itself, than on the OS. It's much easier (and fair) to compare OSs (in combination with the desired apps) for a (few) specific purpose(s) you're interested in, to make your decision. There is no "fits all" solution, as m$ & fankiddies are trying to impose on everyone.
Great answer.
Then tell us how we can compare two OS?
For me the answer is "No, we can't compare two OS."
But because in normal situation we can't install LS outside mac hardware, we use third party application to compare it. With this, we can also bench the hardware. Kill two bird with one stone.
This my response for this statement
Then tell us how we can compare two OS?
For me the answer is "No, we can't compare two OS."
But because in normal situation we can't install LS outside mac hardware, we use third party application to compare it. With this, we can also bench the hardware. Kill two bird with one stone.
This my response for this statement
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