The Apple Mac Cost Misconception

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The author obviously doesn't understand the meaning of the word proprietary.

"Relating to property or ownership; Of or relating to the quality of being an owner; Manufactured exclusively by the owner of intellectual property rights (IPR), as with a patent or trade secret; Privately owned "

By that definition, OS X is proprietary. Then again, so is Windows.
 
[citation][nom]homa[/nom]If you really want to use Mac OS X you can run a modified Mac OS X86 - runs on standard PC hardware .[/citation]

Indeed I think it's called a ... ah ... ah ... ... Hackintosh
 
[citation][nom]No1sFanboy[/nom]One thing I can say for sure is that Tuan Nguyen is a hero in the Mac community. A quick search shows a lot of Mac sites linking to this blog. This sites's past still lends it some credibility and the Apple centric sites are jumping all over this. For example:[/citation]

It's good to know that Apple sites actually are the ones stupid enough to believe the bias/false information provided by this blog.

Doesn't that say enough?
 
okay. I'm not going to call you a mac fanboy. Since you weren't frothing at the mouth and screaming HEIL JOBS!!!! at the beginning of the article I'll give you a small amount of credit. I would like however to point it out that you're wrong. on building a highend work station you picked an expensive mobo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000302&Description=LGA+771&name=Server+Motherboards&Order=PRICE

Picking a cheaper lga 771 server board cuts off a ton of money. you could do the same thing with server cases and memory using more reasonably priced hardware. the boatloads of money you save by avoiding the mac made recipe can go to more storage and better graphics.

Now onto the ultra thin laptop. Me and every competent person that I know scratches their head at these things. I understand there's a market for them. I just don't understand why. A former and a current tech for Acxiom corporation that I know have spent years steering people away from them. Comparing a mac fad item and the windows equivalent serves no real purpose other than showing how an overpriced underpowered fashion accessory from two companies infamous for overpricing hardware both overprice their underpowered hardware. This and the fact that any weight saved from cutting out things like a removable battery and optical drive saves no weight because the 5 pounds saved goes to the external optical drive, the usb hub, the external battery (oh wait the macbook air has none) the ac adapter, and the heavy duty carrying case that protects the frail worthless hunk of junk makes it not worth mentioning either the mac or the HP errr... voodoo laptops.

Last of all you had to mention Mac OSX. This next bit is opinion and fact mixed together. To an experienced windows user like myself MAC OS seems counter intuitive and without any sort of advantage. I've used Mac OSX for a total of maybe two hours before I got frustrated and told the poor guy I'll go home and send the presentation to him from my pc. since mac os has always been streamlined for a one button mouse it was EXTREMELY frustrating to cut and paste bits and pieces off of mac's version of internet exploder. first you highlight. then you right click.... CRAP it just unselected it. okay now you highlight... then you click edit copy.... then you go back to powerpoint.... there you click edit paste rinse and repeat....
 
Wow dude, I was with you on your last article and understood where you were coming from (not wanting to dick with administering your own network/systems). But this is a blatant pro-Mac anti-everything else fanboy article, I'm extremely surprised Toms let you publish it. In fact I'll be asking them to take it down as it does not represent the core values of this place. Toms frequently has price/performance/value comparisons and charts documenting the various pro/cons of different hardware, your article throws all that logic and reasoning to the wind.

You picked extremely overpriced components for your PC, over 1 GRAND for a CPU setup, are you insane? You deliberately picked the most expensive components in your PC build to jack the price up. Also you can't just "stick" OEM / white-box components into a Mac system. Yes it would technically work, but then you just shot your warranty straight to hell. Actually read it sometime, you stick ANY hardware that's not "Apple Approved" into that $2000+ system and you Apple won't fix a damn thing for you. That goes for all tier I system builders and is the biggest reason I choose to build my own PC.

If you go out to new-egg and buy your own components, you quickly can surpass the Mac's capacity for much cheaper. You also can pick and choose which software you want installed. There are tons of "Open/Free" software that installs on windows. Most of it is ported from Linux, things like OpenOffice, GIMP, Firefox, heck even Safari works on windows.

As for OS, Vista sucks. It bleeds performance and inserts tons of NOP instructions (basically wasting cycles), and allocates huge regions of system memory with nothing in it (no one needs 768-1GB of "cache"). I personally use Windows XP Pro x64, which is basically a Desktop version of Windows 2003 Server (its from the same code tree). Faster, stronger and more stable the Vista. Most programs work well with it, and best of all since its a new 64 bit kernel that's designed for server space, its near impervious to crashing (only bad / faulty drivers will do that since they operate in kernel space). 32 Bit apps work inside their own visualized "space" that's sandboxed from the rest of the system.

And thats not even going near the Linux world, OSX is just BSD with Gnome thats been heavily modded. You can get the EXACT same base with free opensource distros, even the OpenGL 3D Desktop/GUI Manager.
 
I personally find this article misinforming and bias. The example base systems were poorly chosen and were picked to satisfy the author's opinion. Some points from the article are well-founded but are over exaggerated.

Using Macs on a regular basis, I personally can vouch for the usability but to be quite honest I find Windows Vista just as easy to use. Both, my six year old nephew and seven year old niece, can navigate through Windows very easily. Usability in Vista is not a big enough issue in order to negotiate the usual steep price difference in purchasing the "premium" Mac operating system. I personally enjoy compatibility more than big, gaudy icons.

In my opinion if you are looking for a laptop or desktop and if you want long-lasting performance with good quality then go with the PC. With a PC, you can have performance and quality that outranks most (if not all) Macs for the same or less price.

If you are one of those people that want to go with the latest trend then I would go with the Mac. Just remember that in the future it's going to be a pain to upgrade or keep current with future applications.
 
somehow I have a feeling The owners of this site got exactly what they wanted.... a billion hits off our rants and bitching...lol

controversy pays

"Favorites Delete"

 
Having read the above-mentioned comments, I would only add the following point: The author of the article implies that when buying a MAC, one should stick with the base configuration and look for upgrades elsewhere. Now, I've built computers and bought pre-built systems before. The whole point of buying a pre-built computer is that you are getting exactly what you want without the hassle of assembly. In that case, how logical is it that a person would buy a base MAC system and then immediately order a new HDD, more RAM, more powerful videocard, etc at some other store? Frankly that does not make sense. So distinction between Apple's MAC pricing and upgrade pricing, while convenient for the purpose of this article, is somewhat pointless. Apple computers ARE more expensive when you buy what you want, and especially when you know what you want!!! If you don't know any better, sure the base Apple system looks fine. That being said, we are all aware that excellent products demand a price premium (it's fact of life). A better angle would be to examine how much of a price vs performance premium Apple charges vs other exclusive PC manufacturers (Voodoo, Alienware, Falcon). But, I suspect that Apple's performance will fall way short of those PC systems simply due to PC's more powerful/flexible architecture (support for SLI, overclocking, more powerful video hardware, etc).
At the risk of turning this into a MAC vs PC thing yet again: Due to aforementioned points, MAC can hardly be called an "enthusiast" system. I guess with that particular group of users out of the question, Apple can just do away with upgrades and sell base systems. Apple can market their hardware as they do their OS -- "one product/version does all." Majority of their user base, who will never open their computer to upgrade anything, will probably not care. Oh, and OS X is definitely elegant. I would love to run it on my custom PC :)
 
When I can build (or purchase) a perfectly capable Mac for $400, I will do so. I don't even think you can consider the $600 Mac Mini "capable" with its integrated graphics, little upgrade possibilities, etc.

This article may have been interesting if truly comparable hardware was chosen on the PC end. It ended up being a joke and not up to the standards of what I expect from this website.
 
Hmmmm I thought it was us, the Mac people...we were the "cultish" ones right? Looks like that has changed too.

This was a great comparison with hardware - Yes you can go buy the cheap crap for a cheap Windows based system....but you get proven quality hardware when you buy a Mac - so that was his basis - as he stated several times - for the comparison.

So the battle rages on...
Now if you like your Vista - fine. Not everyone can get to heaven either. LOL Sorry could not resist being the Mac cultist that I am.
 
This article is totally ridiculous. I can build a desktop PC to crush that Mac for half the price. Spending $1,100 on just the CPU portion? And how about those custom Mac options? By the way, what % of PC buyers in this country, would you say, spend $2,700 on a new desktop? If it's more than 5% I'll buy you lunch.

Don't kid yourself buddy. Try to get a second opinion before you post an article next time, maybe then you can start to rebuild some of your credibility.
 
[citation][nom]dobro7[/nom]Hmmmm I thought it was us, the Mac people...we were the "cultish" ones right? Looks like that has changed too. This was a great comparison with hardware - Yes you can go buy the cheap crap for a cheap Windows based system....but you get proven quality hardware when you buy a Mac - so that was his basis - as he stated several times - for the comparison. So the battle rages on...Now if you like your Vista - fine. Not everyone can get to heaven either. LOL Sorry could not resist being the Mac cultist that I am. [/citation]

Sorry dobro, I picked the SINGLE quad mac and EQUIVALENT xeons and server boards, even upgraded the LCD to a more expensive one and still was a grand or so cheaper, the author of the article picked the dual xeon and neglected to compare SINGLE the quad core. That is where mac gets KILLED pricewise !

 
spartanii wrote...
"what about hardware reliablilty? 9 year old I mac still runs fine, 4 year old pc had to replace mobo and psu after only 2 years. My friends Dell's harddrive failed after a year. And his macbook pro hes had for just as long even dropped in my driveway several times still hasnt had any problems with it.. so im sorry if I use blanket statements like MACs are more reliable because all the evidence ive seen points to the conculsion. Seriously how many people have built a pc with out some part crapping out on them at some point. I mean come on my very first MAC 66mhz (dont remember the rest of the specs, com on it was 13 years ago) still works or i should say functions because no new program would work on it but it still powers up and has all my old software still on the harddrive how many people can say that about there first PC?"

That's some hard hitting research you did to come up with this commentary. Did you have some sort of research team and a university grant or something.
 
If you compare ASUS laptops to the macbook pro........ ASUS wins in all areas....... including price.........
As for Mac Pro do you really need a server type setup to do graphic design......... or video / audio editing?
 
I have spartani, lots of old pc's still going, and you can't comare ANY 10 yo systems to systems of today, back then Most computers were built like tanks, and had a lot less power going thru em !
 
[citation][nom]crom[/nom]I said compared to Vista, not linux in my post. ext3 and AFP are superior to NTFS. It's a fact, not an opinion. Both are much newer than NTFS is. [/citation]

You do realize AFP is a network file system. Thus comparing it to NTFS and ext3 is far from relevant.

Furthermore, HPS+, which is the file system natively supported by Mac OS X, is just as dated as NTFS. Both have released new versions but both are based on file system protocols from the 90s. When ZFS finally drops, then perhaps your statement will be true.

If you want to compare AFP and SMB, I will give you that one. SMB is not very good, in my opinion.
 
[citation][nom]dobro7[/nom]Hmmmm I thought it was us, the Mac people...we were the "cultish" ones right? Looks like that has changed too. This was a great comparison with hardware - Yes you can go buy the cheap crap for a cheap Windows based system....but you get proven quality hardware when you buy a Mac - so that was his basis - as he stated several times - for the comparison. So the battle rages on...Now if you like your Vista - fine. Not everyone can get to heaven either. LOL Sorry could not resist being the Mac cultist that I am. [/citation]

The PC that was mentioned in this article had incompatible parts, for starters. The parts in the PC in this article are FAR beyond the parts of the MAc Pro, and most of the parts are worthless. No computer needs a $320 1000w power supply, for example.


The systems people have been suggesting aren't "cheap crap" systems. They are More powerful systems that actually put money towards useful parts, rather than $320 power supplies, 2 cpus that don't even support dual socket motherboards, and a case that is twice the size and twice the cost that it needs to be.
 
ComponentsIntel® Core™ 2 Duo T8300 (2.4GHz/800Mhz FSB/3MB cache)
Genuine Windows® Vista Home Premium Edition SP1
Sapphire Blue
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz
200GB SATA Hard Drive (7200RPM)
NVIDIA®GeForce®8700M GT graphics
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Mini Card
9 Cell Battery
High Definition Audio 2.0
AGEIA™ PhysX™ Physics Accelerator

1899.... versus 1999 for a MPB... my main issue is how the HELL Tuan got his numbers.
 
You can't possibly be serious, you don't even have compatible hardware (LGA-775 CPUs on an LGA-771 motherboard) and the rest of the components are overpriced or over-specced.

This has to be a joke.

You're joking, right?

I'd love for you to write a follow up article, firstly with a build that would fit together and perform at comparable rates as a mac pro, but also factoring in Apple's gross extra charges for things like more ram.
 
[citation][nom]what[/nom]You can't possibly be serious, you don't even have compatible hardware (LGA-775 CPUs on an LGA-771 motherboard) and the rest of the components are overpriced or over-specced.This has to be a joke.You're joking, right?I'd love for you to write a follow up article, firstly with a build that would fit together and perform at comparable rates as a mac pro, but also factoring in Apple's gross extra charges for things like more ram.[/citation]

He won't, he's dodged anyone who puts a decent point on here because he has no rebuttles.
 
A little something I posted on digg about this article:

This is bogus on several levels. For starters, the author is comparing Macs, which are overpriced, to Dell XPS' and Voodoos, which are also overpriced. How about comparing something like the Lenovo Thinkpad, which will get you significantly greater power for $300 less?

The real farce begins with the desktops. He purchases parts for the PC that are greater and more expensive than what comes with the Mac, and then tops it off with an overpriced case and an overpriced OS. Oh, and he clearly has no idea of how to build computers, because he buys an LGA 771 motherboard, but a LGA 775 CPU. In other words, this "computer" he built couldn't even be assembled. So, the processer and motherboard are incompatible.

The RAM he selected could have been cheaper, in fact he selected the most expensive 2GB of RAM available. His price: $135. My price: $95: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ... Same specs, except mine is in 1 stick rather than 2.

His choice of hard drive is sound, except he lists the price as $80 when it is actually $70.

He managed to find the correct graphics card, but it is $30, not $35.

He buys a $30 sound card for the PC, with 7.1 surround sound, yet the Mac Pro only has a single stereo mini-jack port.

The firewire800 controller is basically worthless, as next to nothing supports the specification, but w/e.

Now, let us just say that he bought this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ... burner, as it matches his price and manufacturer. The Mac Pro's burner supports speeds of up to 32x for cds and 8x for dvds, while this model supports 48x for cds and 20x for dvds. You can find comparable burners to what the Mac Pro ships with for cheaper than $24.

Now, he purchased a clearly overpriced case, but let us just look at it's specs compared to the Mac Pro's. The Mac Pro case has 3 fans (not sure of the size, as I can't find detailed specs). The Lian Li case has 6 fans, all of which are 120mm (large). The Mac Pro case has 5 expansion slots, the Lian Li case has 7. The Lian Li case also has 5 External 5.25" Drive Bays, and 10 Internal 3.5" Drive Bays. The Mac Pro case has 2 external drive bays, and 4 Internal drive bays. Here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ... is a case with the same specs as the Mac pro case, and for only $130. Well, except it is microATX. Here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ... is an ATX case for $150 that matches and exceeds all of the specs of the Mac Pro case.

A 1000w power supply is completely excessive under all circumstances (I can guarantee you the Mac Pro has nothing anywhere near that). Here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ... is a 550w power supply (still would be more than needed), for $60. Considerably cheaper than $320.

You can even save money on the keyboard. Hey look: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8 ... I saved $20 (with $10 mail in rebate) and got a better keyboard. How about that.

And Windows Vista Ultimate is a complete rip off. In all honesty, install a linux distro like Ubuntu and save that $280.

So, assuming that the incompatibilities between cpu and mobo were worked out in this build, and better, cheaper parts were used, the price difference would be around $740.
 
I have made a few other comments here, but I thought of something since.

I have been a reader of THG ( and then [H] :) etc. etc. )since I gave up my DX4-120 for a K6II-350, through a P3-450, Athlon, Athlon XP and Athlon 64, while building many systems for friends and work (I am not a computer guy so I won't pretend to be one, but a physicist/chemist hybrid, and have used peltiers and the like before they became available off the shelf, o/c the PIII on the BE6 and the like.

In all that time I have seen that THG will publish an article such as this WHEN there is nothing significant to write about, review or comment on in the hardware offerings, perhaps feeling that they have to publish something, anything, perhaps something controversial as in this case to keep the readers glued to there Macs, j/k, PC.

[So come on Amtelatvidia, give 'em something to work on!]

This is the first day I have posted on THG as I feel very strongly about this article. The article itself is very poorly researched and executed, and certainly ends on a bad note when the author quotes user comments. When I "built" the 1720 laptop for my wife, I did 10x more research than is in that article; one would expect many many more price comparisons, especially given the more complete attention THG gives to CPU comparisons.

To the untrained eye, one would suspect from the article that Macs are a good value for money and I think we all know that this is most certainly not the case. As to whether the OSx is better than Vista is a matter of personal preference IF you are not a gamer, not to mention the fact that for me, using proprietary scientific softwares, excludes the Mac.

Being the author of several scientific papers, and I am no Nobel winner, just a lowly mid pack scientist, I would expect more of THG! Especially given their wide readership ... cf. Journal Impact Score. I do not know if THG has a trained paid staff or if it is a volunteer thing, but obviously Tuan has received a lot of flak over this, and of course he is an individual not just a name. Perhaps rather than berating the individual, the community could be more supportive, as of course we all fail from time to time in our work. As a research scientist I spend 90% of my time banging my head against a brick wall! Of course, the article could have been a ploy to attract attention? Maybe the author is a PC guy who loves OS X and has unknowingly, with good intention tried to project that to the community? Maybe the editors should have contended the article citing that further information was required?

In summation, when in the absence of new hardware available for review, perhaps THG could offer more attentive reporting of hardware. This might include mid-range home built PC's, more intensive motherboard comparisons (sensibly priced) more HDD raid comparisons, extensive cooling tests, more news relating to Keyboards, Mice, Speakers and Monitors, Printers and scanners. I know the bread and butter of THG is in the case, but in the absence of advances here, these would be helpful.

In addition to this, should THG wish to flirt with Mac, perhaps a more thorough comparison of Mac and PC hardware might be warranted. A realistic comparison of operating systems would also be welcome. Perhaps even an article on Hackintosh vs Mackintosh?

What about trying to build a home brew in comparison to an Alienware or XPS? (An aside ... I had an alienware laptop through a former employer, it was trouble!).

Anyway ... lets support THG and tell them what we want to have reported, not that we dictate, but that we support them and what they do!






 
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