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[citation][nom]rockbyter[/nom]You have now intrigued me. You knew the consequences when you started, so were you told to go ahead and run with articles to see what happens? If you are the guinea pig I almost feel bad for you, but at the same time you probably won't get fired for writing against the grain. Create a new mac section for THG, where people can welcome this sort of article with open arms. What would have been sufficient, is what every other news site does with Apple reviews. Direct comparison on features, prices, performance, and upgrades. Benchmark them. Write about the limited or abundant functionality between budget, workstation, and performance oriented platforms PC and Apple alike. The second article to follow the first hardware one is to directly review the operating systems on exactly similar hardware. This means you may need to build a mac clone and install windows, then OS X. You can then write exactly what you 'feel' is the difference, and what features get noticed from one over another. When you upgrade the memory of both systems to 4 gb, what changes in the benchmarks and measurable behavior. I would actually like you to write these two factual articles and it should clear up the whole thing. [/citation]
Great idea. I hope we see it someday.
Great idea. I hope we see it someday.
Wow! An article posted in haste.
I suggest the author do "more" research before you hit the "publish" button!
Please don't treat your readers to be ignoramus to the cost of MAC vs Windows based system. This article is waaaaaay out of reality's touch! Get your facts right!
I suggest the author do "more" research before you hit the "publish" button!
Please don't treat your readers to be ignoramus to the cost of MAC vs Windows based system. This article is waaaaaay out of reality's touch! Get your facts right!
sandmanwn
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[citation][nom]RobWright[/nom]I think some folks are getting carried away, jumping to conclusions and getting a little defensive. I know we're Tom's Hardware. I know you're all PC enthusiasts. But the Mac-hating here is little over-the-top. The mere act and perceived offense of writing about Apple on this site has sent some of you into a rage to the point where you're ready to burn the author at the stake. [/citation]
That's right it is Tom's Hardware. We like hardware discussions based on data and facts and tests, not subjective, over sensationalized comments from fanboys. If he wants to be subjective then there are other parts of the Best of Media network that suits his style more accurately and his blogs will fit in just perfectly. Think you should take Tuan to the archives and show him some of Thomas Pabst work before he writes another article instead of another blog post about his subjective feelings on the front page of THG.
Just a suggestion from the loyal THG crowd.
That's right it is Tom's Hardware. We like hardware discussions based on data and facts and tests, not subjective, over sensationalized comments from fanboys. If he wants to be subjective then there are other parts of the Best of Media network that suits his style more accurately and his blogs will fit in just perfectly. Think you should take Tuan to the archives and show him some of Thomas Pabst work before he writes another article instead of another blog post about his subjective feelings on the front page of THG.
Just a suggestion from the loyal THG crowd.
continuation
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[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]That's the whole point, can you do the SAME for much less? I keep repeating myself but people just fail to see the argument. You are trying to MATCH the Apple build for LESS. This is different than simply saying can I go as cheap as possible.[/citation]
You're so intellectually dishonest that you have no business being a writer - no even the infomercial writer that you obviously aspire to be.
So now you are splitting hair by arguing the comparison system has to be the SAME?
Guess what - the comparison PC will never be exactly the SAME. Why? Because Apple's computers are proprietary and you'll never get the SAME system from other vendors. Even a Lian Li case would be the SAME because it doesn't have the Apple logo on it.
The main point that myself and countless other commenter have made - that you so conveniently chose to ignore over and over again - is that we can get a similar - scratch that - a BETTER PC for LESS MONEY than Apple is charging.
Go ahead, configure ANY Apple computer, I can come up with a BETTER PC (faster CPU, faster GPU, more RAM, bigger drives, bigger monitor) for LESS money. That's a fact and you know it. But you tried to discredit that by saying it doesn't count because my PC - although it's a far BETTER system - isn't exactly the SAME as your Mac. So you refuse to accept that comparison.
Like I said, intellectually dishonest.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Apple Infomercial from Tom's Hardware, proudly sponsored by Apple Computer, the NON-proprietary value-for-money computer leader of the world.
You're so intellectually dishonest that you have no business being a writer - no even the infomercial writer that you obviously aspire to be.
So now you are splitting hair by arguing the comparison system has to be the SAME?
Guess what - the comparison PC will never be exactly the SAME. Why? Because Apple's computers are proprietary and you'll never get the SAME system from other vendors. Even a Lian Li case would be the SAME because it doesn't have the Apple logo on it.
The main point that myself and countless other commenter have made - that you so conveniently chose to ignore over and over again - is that we can get a similar - scratch that - a BETTER PC for LESS MONEY than Apple is charging.
Go ahead, configure ANY Apple computer, I can come up with a BETTER PC (faster CPU, faster GPU, more RAM, bigger drives, bigger monitor) for LESS money. That's a fact and you know it. But you tried to discredit that by saying it doesn't count because my PC - although it's a far BETTER system - isn't exactly the SAME as your Mac. So you refuse to accept that comparison.
Like I said, intellectually dishonest.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Apple Infomercial from Tom's Hardware, proudly sponsored by Apple Computer, the NON-proprietary value-for-money computer leader of the world.
tuannguyen
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[citation][nom]GoodSyntax[/nom]Tuan,I hate to pig-pile, but many of the previous commenter’s had a point. Obviously, if you build a PC with EXACTLY THE SAME HARDWARE, pricing will be consistent; the only variable is the software.Does Apple choose the hardware because they honestly feel that it is the most feature laden, most stable, most high performance hardware available, or do they choose the hardware because of favorable contractual pricing models? This is an enthusiast site, we all know what's out there and most of us can cherry pick hardware and tailor configurations where the impact would be felt the most. Would I personally purchase top of the line NVIDIA or ATI video cards for office productivity and email PC's, or would I eschew the upgrade in favor of additional memory, larger hard drive or larger monitors? The PC environment allows me to tailor my hardware according to how I will use it, giving me the opportunity to splurge on hardware that boosts productivity and cut costs in other areas that are deemed unnecessary.To give this article more credibility, you should take several PC and Mac configurations (OEM and purpose built - solicit advice from readers on what configurations would be best), run a bunch of benchmarks and boil everything down to objective, empirical numbers. Performance/watt, performance/dollar, FPS/dollar, etc. Without hard facts (and I don't mean cherry picking pricing that best suits your position), I'm afraid this article represents nothing more than your (favorable) opinion of Apple structured around a very narrowly scoped argument that Mac pricing is in-line with PC that have identical configurations.Can I build a Mac clone for the same price? Yes, I can, but my point why? One of the most compelling reasons to build a PC yourself is the ability to tailor the configuration according to usage and/or esthetics. Would anyone install an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280 on an email/internet browsing PC? Obviously not! Computers, whether PC or Mac can be used for web, email, photo editing, movie editing, file serving or a thousand other purposes. Building a computer dedicated to that purpose will always perform better and in many cases will cost less than generic OEM machines.@gxsolace - Insults and name calling are unnecessary and undermines whatever point you tried to make.@scimanal - I am a developer who has chosen to weigh in on the subject. Your arguement that 67% of web servers run Linux is great, but so what? Of course most web servers will be running Linux because 1 - It's free2 - It makes sense from a utility computing perspective 3 - Why carry the overhead of the UI layer in Windows or OSX when you don't need it? 4 - Open source gives companies the ability to tailor their environment where proprietary software does not allow it. 5 - *nix operating systems have a smaller attack surface and have a tiny fraction of the known exploits of Windows.Your comment comes off as pompous and arrogant. Clearly you underestimate the intelligence, experience and capabilities of the population here. Yes there are fanboys putting in their two cents, but remember that this site is geared to enthusiasts who know a lot about hardware and software, much of which has been learned through years of experience and research. Casually dismissing the population here and asserting a sense of superiority because you are a *nix elitist who dabbles in C/C++, PERL or AWK shows a clear inferiority complex. Either that or you are so self loathing that you lash out against everyone behind a veil of anonymity.[/citation]
GoodSyntax -
Here's the thing. Firstly, there are tons of comments here that seem to have no arguments whatsoever and only simply get angry or personally attack other people. It also seems that anyone who has anything positive to say about Macs, automatically get voted down. I'm sure you've noticed.
In regards to your argument, the point was to prove that you can do either or. You can be more expensive or less expensive - BOTH on the PC and Mac side. It all depends on what you do with the build. My point being this, I am proving that Macs aren't ridiculously over priced (save for the upgrades that Apple sells), than PCs of equivalent build. You can ALWAYS build something cheaper, but that's not the same argument and building something the same for way less.
Yes, with a custom built computer you do have the freedom to stick in ANY component you wish. There's no arguing with that. It was all about the prices, and the OS. It seems to me that people just look at things on the mere surface and say "Oh! Look, this one is the same and is way cheaper. Macs are overpriced." That to me indicates a degree of prejudice. The question is "let's take a look at why this system could cost more than the system next to it."
Some users point out good interesting things, but the majority are just trolling, flaming, bashing, name calling, threatening, and down right abusive. I"m just so intrigued because no one forced anyone to read anything. If they don't like it, it was free anyway.
GoodSyntax -
Here's the thing. Firstly, there are tons of comments here that seem to have no arguments whatsoever and only simply get angry or personally attack other people. It also seems that anyone who has anything positive to say about Macs, automatically get voted down. I'm sure you've noticed.
In regards to your argument, the point was to prove that you can do either or. You can be more expensive or less expensive - BOTH on the PC and Mac side. It all depends on what you do with the build. My point being this, I am proving that Macs aren't ridiculously over priced (save for the upgrades that Apple sells), than PCs of equivalent build. You can ALWAYS build something cheaper, but that's not the same argument and building something the same for way less.
Yes, with a custom built computer you do have the freedom to stick in ANY component you wish. There's no arguing with that. It was all about the prices, and the OS. It seems to me that people just look at things on the mere surface and say "Oh! Look, this one is the same and is way cheaper. Macs are overpriced." That to me indicates a degree of prejudice. The question is "let's take a look at why this system could cost more than the system next to it."
Some users point out good interesting things, but the majority are just trolling, flaming, bashing, name calling, threatening, and down right abusive. I"m just so intrigued because no one forced anyone to read anything. If they don't like it, it was free anyway.
Chazwuzzer
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I dunno - I think that the article made some good points, but really went off the deep end on the desktop comparison. I like Mac laptops - they are very well made and just very convenient to use. I'm even considering one for my next work laptop. Having said that, I've had bad experience after bad experience with Mac desktops. Configs that looked good on paper delivered horribly in real performance. I used several generations of the Pro and while they did some things well, I was unimpressed by the price/performance ratio.
I think the article makes a valid point about relative pricing because it highlights the reason why mac desktops are expensive - kinda pointlessly expensive components. Then again there's always those PC enthusiasts that will blow big bucks on some lights 'n stuff in their rig, so I suppose there's a comparison to be made there.
I think the article makes a valid point about relative pricing because it highlights the reason why mac desktops are expensive - kinda pointlessly expensive components. Then again there's always those PC enthusiasts that will blow big bucks on some lights 'n stuff in their rig, so I suppose there's a comparison to be made there.
goodsyntax
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[citation]1. Linux is not exactly free anymore, many professional web hosts use things like Red Hat, etc and do pay for it. That's not a small number.[/citation]
Point taken, although charging for "enterprise" Linux is farce that simply gives IT managers solace in the form of a loosely enforcable support agreement.
[citation]3. both Windows and Mac can also lose the UI layer, so this is not entirely a argument point.[/citation]
It wasn't until Windows Server 2008 that you could run all services, including IIS, in a command line environment.
[citation]4. I can see where you are coming from on this one, point taken, but there is still an immense amount of tweaking that is possible in Windows (Server), and an equal amount in Mac OS X (server)[/citation]
Unfortuantely, the degree of tweaking afforded is limited. Any custom development isn't officially supported unless you are a Gold Partner. And even then, there is only so much you can do inside a closed system.
[citation]5. *nix structures have just as bad of an attack possibility. I completely understand how the size is less, but often the attacks against servers are generally more severe and much more harsh than your day to day windows script/exploit. I do agree with you on this point, but you have to at least acknowledge my perspective on this, because I think its a serious one.[/citation]
Again, I see your point on this one. Successful attacks on servers are far more crippling than on the desktop. Fortunately, extensive testing proves that the greatest vulnerability to Windows, OSX, *nix is the 3rd party software. These days a properly secured server environment without any additional software like Acrobat, Flash, Office, Drivers, etc. has almost no vulnerabilities (besides DNS which has surfaced in the past two weeks). This is the type of setup has been used in almost every production environment that I've ever come across.
Point taken, although charging for "enterprise" Linux is farce that simply gives IT managers solace in the form of a loosely enforcable support agreement.
[citation]3. both Windows and Mac can also lose the UI layer, so this is not entirely a argument point.[/citation]
It wasn't until Windows Server 2008 that you could run all services, including IIS, in a command line environment.
[citation]4. I can see where you are coming from on this one, point taken, but there is still an immense amount of tweaking that is possible in Windows (Server), and an equal amount in Mac OS X (server)[/citation]
Unfortuantely, the degree of tweaking afforded is limited. Any custom development isn't officially supported unless you are a Gold Partner. And even then, there is only so much you can do inside a closed system.
[citation]5. *nix structures have just as bad of an attack possibility. I completely understand how the size is less, but often the attacks against servers are generally more severe and much more harsh than your day to day windows script/exploit. I do agree with you on this point, but you have to at least acknowledge my perspective on this, because I think its a serious one.[/citation]
Again, I see your point on this one. Successful attacks on servers are far more crippling than on the desktop. Fortunately, extensive testing proves that the greatest vulnerability to Windows, OSX, *nix is the 3rd party software. These days a properly secured server environment without any additional software like Acrobat, Flash, Office, Drivers, etc. has almost no vulnerabilities (besides DNS which has surfaced in the past two weeks). This is the type of setup has been used in almost every production environment that I've ever come across.
KillerTruffle
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Custom built PC to order Matched to baseline Mac Pro
* SUPERMICRO MBD-X7DCA-L-O Dual LGA 771 $279.99
Intel Xeon X3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz x 2 $1109.98
Kingston HyperX 2 GB ECC FB-DIMM $134.99
* Seagate Barracuda 500 GB SATA 3.0 $79.99 - higher capacity, same cost
Sapphire Radeon HD 2600XT 256 MB $34.99
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 $27.99
Cirago BTA Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR USB $9.99
SYBA 1394a FireWire400 Controller $12.99
* SYBA 1394b FireWire800 Controller $12.99 ALSO from Newegg - what's up buying a duplicate card for nearly twice the price from somewhere else anyway?
Lite-On DL-DVD Burner $23.99
* Antec Nine Hundred Mid-tower Case $79.99
* PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W $79.99
Keytronic E06101USBC Keyboard $38.99
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical OEM $11.99
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 OEM $179.99
Total price $2118.84 - a difference of $654.49. All prices still from Newegg. Significant I'd say.
* SUPERMICRO MBD-X7DCA-L-O Dual LGA 771 $279.99
Intel Xeon X3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz x 2 $1109.98
Kingston HyperX 2 GB ECC FB-DIMM $134.99
* Seagate Barracuda 500 GB SATA 3.0 $79.99 - higher capacity, same cost
Sapphire Radeon HD 2600XT 256 MB $34.99
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy SE 7.1 $27.99
Cirago BTA Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR USB $9.99
SYBA 1394a FireWire400 Controller $12.99
* SYBA 1394b FireWire800 Controller $12.99 ALSO from Newegg - what's up buying a duplicate card for nearly twice the price from somewhere else anyway?
Lite-On DL-DVD Burner $23.99
* Antec Nine Hundred Mid-tower Case $79.99
* PC Power & Cooling S61EPS 610W $79.99
Keytronic E06101USBC Keyboard $38.99
Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical OEM $11.99
* Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 OEM $179.99
Total price $2118.84 - a difference of $654.49. All prices still from Newegg. Significant I'd say.
doomsdaydave11
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I really don't like how the Dell XPS M1730 was compared to the macbook pro. XPS laptops (especially that one) are huge ripoffs.
I'm gonna holla Linux for the win on this one. It's free, far more secure then a Mac or a PC (I can't remember what hacking competition it was, but I'm sure a lot of you read it. The mac was hacked within 30 minutes, the windows was hacked like 2 hours later, and the Linux system was never hacked, or something along those lines. The only thing i remember is the 30 minute Mac hack lol) It's open sourced, so there are TONS of softwares for it that are 100% free. There is huge variety on which one you want depending on your needs... etc, etc, etc. And you can dual boot it with your PC. And since you can build it off of custom PC hardware, you'll be saving money in every way.
I hate to sound like a PC zealot, but the PC build was also crap. Not very many people are going to put together a $3000 build. Ok, maybe Mac is tied with computer in the high end, but try comparing a $1000 custom PC, and a $1000 mac in your next article please.
Or I'll do it for you. Here is a basic, midrange Mac. A few of my friends have this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883104032
Ok, lets slap together a PC wishlist with similar hardware:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12540387&WishListTitle=test2
This one has far more upgrade room, is faster, has more features, etc etc. And subtract $110 from that if you want to go Linux. That system with Linux will be $450 less then the equivalent baseline Mac.
Ok, maybe the current OS X is more streamlined in some places then Windows, but forget gaming on a Mac. And even if you don't game, I'm not willing to lay down $450 dollars for a "Superior" operating system, and sacrifice better hardware for it. Sorry. No one's gonna convert this old salt.
I'm gonna holla Linux for the win on this one. It's free, far more secure then a Mac or a PC (I can't remember what hacking competition it was, but I'm sure a lot of you read it. The mac was hacked within 30 minutes, the windows was hacked like 2 hours later, and the Linux system was never hacked, or something along those lines. The only thing i remember is the 30 minute Mac hack lol) It's open sourced, so there are TONS of softwares for it that are 100% free. There is huge variety on which one you want depending on your needs... etc, etc, etc. And you can dual boot it with your PC. And since you can build it off of custom PC hardware, you'll be saving money in every way.
I hate to sound like a PC zealot, but the PC build was also crap. Not very many people are going to put together a $3000 build. Ok, maybe Mac is tied with computer in the high end, but try comparing a $1000 custom PC, and a $1000 mac in your next article please.
Or I'll do it for you. Here is a basic, midrange Mac. A few of my friends have this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883104032
Ok, lets slap together a PC wishlist with similar hardware:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=12540387&WishListTitle=test2
This one has far more upgrade room, is faster, has more features, etc etc. And subtract $110 from that if you want to go Linux. That system with Linux will be $450 less then the equivalent baseline Mac.
Ok, maybe the current OS X is more streamlined in some places then Windows, but forget gaming on a Mac. And even if you don't game, I'm not willing to lay down $450 dollars for a "Superior" operating system, and sacrifice better hardware for it. Sorry. No one's gonna convert this old salt.
The people that have "problems" with PCs are those that don't cherry pick the components for it, want to use old hardware, can't follow the instructions when installing new hardware (and drivers), can't figure out how to use it to perform simple tasks (like attaching a document to an email), and don't use anti virus software. Others have problems with certain games (like Crysis).
Apple is a small tightly controlled system that seems better to the tech-challenged types, because they tightly control and limit your hardware and software choices, thus preventing the idiots from making stupid choices.
Dell is trying to be the Apple of the PC, and their pricing becomes closer to Apple's when you customize a PC on their site. It costs $200 to upgrade from 2G of DDR2 800 to 4G on an XPS desktop. It would be cheaper to toss the 2G sticks and buy 4G of memory from Fry's or Newegg.
So yea, for the basic idiot that buys a Dell sees the price escalate as they upgrade and add on components. I can see how this would compare to Apple.
This article is like the dumb downed garbage that PC magazine published for the past few years. It offers nothing to the type of PC user that would visit this site. Who would visit THG to expand their knowledge and then decide to buy a Dell? :lol:
Apple is a small tightly controlled system that seems better to the tech-challenged types, because they tightly control and limit your hardware and software choices, thus preventing the idiots from making stupid choices.
Dell is trying to be the Apple of the PC, and their pricing becomes closer to Apple's when you customize a PC on their site. It costs $200 to upgrade from 2G of DDR2 800 to 4G on an XPS desktop. It would be cheaper to toss the 2G sticks and buy 4G of memory from Fry's or Newegg.
So yea, for the basic idiot that buys a Dell sees the price escalate as they upgrade and add on components. I can see how this would compare to Apple.
This article is like the dumb downed garbage that PC magazine published for the past few years. It offers nothing to the type of PC user that would visit this site. Who would visit THG to expand their knowledge and then decide to buy a Dell? :lol:
castagnolac
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" if real money was involved, an informed customer would not be adding in any of Apple’s ridiculously expensive options, and would instead source upgrades from elsewhere."
Ummm - isn't that illegal?
Ummm - isn't that illegal?
[citation][nom]tuannguyen[/nom]GoodSyntax -Here's the thing. Firstly, there are tons of comments here that seem to have no arguments whatsoever and only simply get angry or personally attack other people. It also seems that anyone who has anything positive to say about Macs, automatically get voted down. I'm sure you've noticed.In regards to your argument, the point was to prove that you can do either or. You can be more expensive or less expensive - BOTH on the PC and Mac side. It all depends on what you do with the build. My point being this, I am proving that Macs aren't ridiculously over priced (save for the upgrades that Apple sells), than PCs of equivalent build. You can ALWAYS build something cheaper, but that's not the same argument and building something the same for way less.Yes, with a custom built computer you do have the freedom to stick in ANY component you wish. There's no arguing with that. It was all about the prices, and the OS. It seems to me that people just look at things on the mere surface and say "Oh! Look, this one is the same and is way cheaper. Macs are overpriced." That to me indicates a degree of prejudice. The question is "let's take a look at why this system could cost more than the system next to it."Some users point out good interesting things, but the majority are just trolling, flaming, bashing, name calling, threatening, and down right abusive. I"m just so intrigued because no one forced anyone to read anything. If they don't like it, it was free anyway. [/citation]
Yes, there are PC laptops that cost more than Mactops do! We know this, but NO ONE BUYS THEM because there are cheaper and better laptops out there. Your argument makes no sense, it really doesn't. You're talking in circles.
I approached the article thinking "Wow, is it possibly true that Macs aren't at expensive as I thought?" bearing in mind that THG articles' titles usually have twists or some kind of sarcasm in them. I clicked the link expecting there to be a well written and thought-out article, as THG usually delivers, but that was not the case. I truly approached the article with an open mind as, like many others, I'm more than willing to give OSX a try - but your bias that you keep arguing is not fanboyism has turned many people off not only to Macs but to THG. Perhaps you should take responsibility for that?
Yes, there are PC laptops that cost more than Mactops do! We know this, but NO ONE BUYS THEM because there are cheaper and better laptops out there. Your argument makes no sense, it really doesn't. You're talking in circles.
I approached the article thinking "Wow, is it possibly true that Macs aren't at expensive as I thought?" bearing in mind that THG articles' titles usually have twists or some kind of sarcasm in them. I clicked the link expecting there to be a well written and thought-out article, as THG usually delivers, but that was not the case. I truly approached the article with an open mind as, like many others, I'm more than willing to give OSX a try - but your bias that you keep arguing is not fanboyism has turned many people off not only to Macs but to THG. Perhaps you should take responsibility for that?
What Tuan didn't pay attention to was that VTOL priced the machine in Euros, probably indicating he was in Europe (Duh!). Just for kicks, I went to the **German** apple store and took a baseline Mac Pro, added 6 GB more RAM (8 GB total) and gave it 4 TB storage just like VTOL did. Price: 5.138,99 € ($7965.43). Bump up the Xeon's to 3.2 GHz and you're at 6.568,99 € ($10238.43).
hardwarekid9756
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An article where you have to post an apologetic-refutation article to justify yourself does not a good article make.
Let me clarify a few things:
"I can build a computer for xxx less..."
This is because the BASE model for Mac costs 2799...
A platform with 700$ of NON-COMPARABLE hardware will get SIMILAR marks. That's the idea. That's the meaning. The spirit of the statement is that the Mac is overpriced because it's overpowered. It is limited in it's options, and they use hardware normal system builders wouldn't consider.
"Not Proprietary..."
No IT in their right mind would faithfully Implement OS X across their business platform. Everything has their uses. I don't even want to get into the bias skewing of facts (the 1%/8% skew...that is just blind ignorance if you can't see why it's so skewed...and that fails to account for the fact that Windows thusly dominates the 90+% of market share...making OS X a Niche market and not an "industry accepted standard...").
Don't Fan boy. It's one thing to explain Mac's place in the market. You're getting Lambasted at every turn because you aren't doing this...you're touting mac as a superior product.
Mac has a market. It's targeted toward the marketing-vulnerable Aesthete. People who come to Tom's know this market. They don't need you starting flamewars on here about Superior macs. Leave that at the dozens of Mac v PC forums around the world. This is a place to discuss hardware and computers. When Mac OS becomes an industry standard. Or Mac OS can make a readily-accessible consumer piece of hardware. Or if Mac can make something that isn't all marketting pad, come back. 'Til now, I hope Best of Media gets rid of your column spot.
Let me clarify a few things:
"I can build a computer for xxx less..."
This is because the BASE model for Mac costs 2799...
A platform with 700$ of NON-COMPARABLE hardware will get SIMILAR marks. That's the idea. That's the meaning. The spirit of the statement is that the Mac is overpriced because it's overpowered. It is limited in it's options, and they use hardware normal system builders wouldn't consider.
"Not Proprietary..."
No IT in their right mind would faithfully Implement OS X across their business platform. Everything has their uses. I don't even want to get into the bias skewing of facts (the 1%/8% skew...that is just blind ignorance if you can't see why it's so skewed...and that fails to account for the fact that Windows thusly dominates the 90+% of market share...making OS X a Niche market and not an "industry accepted standard...").
Don't Fan boy. It's one thing to explain Mac's place in the market. You're getting Lambasted at every turn because you aren't doing this...you're touting mac as a superior product.
Mac has a market. It's targeted toward the marketing-vulnerable Aesthete. People who come to Tom's know this market. They don't need you starting flamewars on here about Superior macs. Leave that at the dozens of Mac v PC forums around the world. This is a place to discuss hardware and computers. When Mac OS becomes an industry standard. Or Mac OS can make a readily-accessible consumer piece of hardware. Or if Mac can make something that isn't all marketting pad, come back. 'Til now, I hope Best of Media gets rid of your column spot.
spaztic7
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Say what you want about any Windows users about how idiotic, moronic, ignorat or whatever you want to call us. But you proven our points that the typical Mac user are arogant pricks. Why THG lets you, a "jounalist" comment to your views in such a manner is shameful. I hope that THG takes a wrap becasue of you.
JimmyJimmington
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- Aug 4, 2008
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Tuan. Either you're lying or you just didn't do your research. I CALLED DELL AND THEY SAID, FOR CERTAIN THE 8700M HAS 256MB GDDR3 DEDICATED MEMORY. HENCE, THE SLI HAS 512MB. Please issue a retraction and an apology. I won't go into the other things I personally feel are misleading about this article, but this is a factual error and I hope that TH upholds some sort of basic ethical standard.
doomturkey
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- Sep 18, 2005
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I agree with all the above posters. Also, look at an introductory macbook. They cost $1k, come with 13.3" screen, 2.1ghz C2D, 1GB RAM, 120gb HDD, and integrated graphics. With those same specs, you can buy a Toshiba Satellite for about $600. Wtf? For that same $1k, you can get something with a 15" screen, 2ghz C2D, 4gb RAM, 160gb HDD, and the same integrated graphics. Apple is full of shit.
tuannguyen
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- Jul 22, 2008
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[citation][nom]Antioch18[/nom]Yes, there are PC laptops that cost more than Mactops do! We know this, but NO ONE BUYS THEM because there are cheaper and better laptops out there. Your argument makes no sense, it really doesn't. You're talking in circles.I approached the article thinking "Wow, is it possibly true that Macs aren't at expensive as I thought?" bearing in mind that THG articles' titles usually have twists or some kind of sarcasm in them. I clicked the link expecting there to be a well written and thought-out article, as THG usually delivers, but that was not the case. I truly approached the article with an open mind as, like many others, I'm more than willing to give OSX a try - but your bias that you keep arguing is not fanboyism has turned many people off not only to Macs but to THG. Perhaps you should take responsibility for that?[/citation]
Of course I take full responsibility for it: You can't please everyone and my name's in the article. I appreciate the compliments about Tom's Hardware, but honestly, I keep going in circles because others are going in circles. Here's the bottom line, Macs aren't wildly more expensive. The hardware is the same. The OS is not, and they're more expensive for a reason. You can't compare a cheaper Acer to a Macbook Pro. It's the old adage of comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes or something like that. And you know what, really, real journalism can't take one side all the time, you gotta point out the good and bad sides of all parties. Hence the pages I wrote about Apple's stupid hardware options and their prices.
Of course I take full responsibility for it: You can't please everyone and my name's in the article. I appreciate the compliments about Tom's Hardware, but honestly, I keep going in circles because others are going in circles. Here's the bottom line, Macs aren't wildly more expensive. The hardware is the same. The OS is not, and they're more expensive for a reason. You can't compare a cheaper Acer to a Macbook Pro. It's the old adage of comparing a Hyundai to a Mercedes or something like that. And you know what, really, real journalism can't take one side all the time, you gotta point out the good and bad sides of all parties. Hence the pages I wrote about Apple's stupid hardware options and their prices.
[citation][nom]DXRick[/nom]Dell is trying to be the Apple of the PC...[/citation]
Especially when you look at that new Apple-Dock-Bar thingie clone they made for their new machines.
http://gizmodo.com/5021972/review-dells-vista-dock-pretty-but-lifeless
Especially when you look at that new Apple-Dock-Bar thingie clone they made for their new machines.
http://gizmodo.com/5021972/review-dells-vista-dock-pretty-but-lifeless
castagnolac
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- May 15, 2008
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" if real money was involved, an informed customer would not be adding in any of Apple’s ridiculously expensive options, and would instead source upgrades from elsewhere."
Ummm - isn't that illegal?
Ummm - isn't that illegal?
tuannguyen
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- Jul 22, 2008
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[citation][nom]MercAB3[/nom]What Tuan didn't pay attention to was that VTOL priced the machine in Euros, probably indicating he was in Europe (Duh!). Just for kicks, I went to the **German** apple store and took a baseline Mac Pro, added 6 GB more RAM (8 GB total) and gave it 4 TB storage just like VTOL did. Price: 5.138,99 € ($7965.43). Bump up the Xeon's to 3.2 GHz and you're at 6.568,99 € ($10238.43).[/citation]
I used USD prices from the US store in my original article, why would he intentionally go to the European store where prices are not the same?
I used USD prices from the US store in my original article, why would he intentionally go to the European store where prices are not the same?
tuannguyen
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- Jul 22, 2008
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[citation][nom]JimmyJimmington[/nom]Tuan. Either you're lying or you just didn't do your research. I CALLED DELL AND THEY SAID, FOR CERTAIN THE 8700M HAS 256MB GDDR3 DEDICATED MEMORY. HENCE, THE SLI HAS 512MB. Please issue a retraction and an apology. I won't go into the other things I personally feel are misleading about this article, but this is a factual error and I hope that TH upholds some sort of basic ethical standard.[/citation]
no. Dell's spec page indicates that it is shared. Please check out the Dell page for that laptop.
For the SLI, the config is entirely different.
no. Dell's spec page indicates that it is shared. Please check out the Dell page for that laptop.
For the SLI, the config is entirely different.
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