The Apple Mac Cost Misconception

[zenmaster]

[citation][nom]undead[/nom]As much as I like Apple, I have to agree with most of the comments here. I have a current generation Airport Extreme router and a first generation iphone (this should tell you something,right?) and I absolutely love them because these are what I need, nothing more, nothing less. But when it comes to computers, I have a XP desktop with socket 939 Opteron 170 @2.5GHz, an Ubuntu desktop running as ftp server with old Northwood P4 3GHz, a Dell XPS m1330 Vista laptop(T7500 processor, 3GB ram, 250GB 5400rpm HD, 8400m gpu,with 3 year top of the line warranty, paid $1278 tax and shipping included 8 months ago). There are reasons why I don't have Macs for my computer needs. Like most/a lot of people on this site, I tweak and mod my computers. I can't do that with Macs. I play games and I can't do that with Macs either. These are the deal breakers for me. When we compare products, we have to consider the "what I need" factor. I doubt that regular people like us will have a Mac Pro because we don't need it. So, if the author wants to make a realistic argument (his arguments are quite valid just not realistic), he should compare a mainstream Mac with a comparable mainstream PC. The same goes for the Mac book air. I am not gonna buy it even if I have a million bucks. These are niche products and not a lot of people care about them.And as for the author's comment about not to criticize the author and just to criticize the arguments, here is the thing. You own what you have presented. If we think you did a bad job, we will bash you, not the arguments because these arguments did not write themselves, you did. Personally, I wouldn't call you names but I don't think other people who called you names are wrong either. They are just saying the same thing I am saying, in a different way. Our message is "You suck at writing this article". And to the editors, tom's hardware is my homepage on all my computers and I think that's about to change. Don't tell me if I don't want to come, don't come because every reader/customer counts and I am not the only one with the same sentiment. I wish everybody at Tom's best of luck (because you are gonna need it). [/citation]

This is a Good Post.
The comments here are not mostly Apple Bashing.
There can be many good points to Apple and it's OS.
The OP posted a number of good things to try.

Just don't insult the intelligence of your reading audience.
by comparing dissimilar hardware setups and then try to use that to prove MACs are just are the same price or less.

 

[Mach5Motorsport]

[citation][nom]JimmyJimmington[/nom]You should also mention that the macbook air is only thinner because it doesn't have a cd drive.[/citation]

I remember so well when Apple figured their popwerbook users didn't need CD-R drives for their laptops and spec'd only CD Roms only!!!! LOL

Steve Jobs is so visionary (err Myopic vision that is) image is everything.

yeah, the Airbook is so wafer thin and light. No cd drive at all! Why not just use a convertional notebook in a binder and save two grand for your new iPhone! LMAO

 

[skywalker9952]

THG please stop publishing half assed fanboy articles. Your readers are to smart to be taken in by shoddy writing.

 

[X2_Server]

They seriously need to use Dell's system configurator when making these comparisons. For example the first $1999 laptop comparison - you can configure a Dell XPS M1530 with nearly identical speeds, same screen size, ram, videocard, bluetooth, wifi, and harddrive - for $1,419. $580 less. That seems significant to me. Unless Dell saw this article and radically altered their prices, I think these comparisons should be revisted.

 

[saturn77]

This has got to be the worst article I ever read on Tom's Hardware and by a long shot. What I do find satisfying is the comments. Not only are they overwhelming against Taun, but they don't even allow him to respond. Almost all of his comments are hidden because of the feedback. Now that is priceless.

Taun, your argument is way off. You did cherry pick. What Apple uses is a selection of overpriced and at least one generation old technology.

The point that everyone is making that simply eludes your article is that YOU CAN BUILD A PC THAT RUNS CIRCLES AROUND APPLES FOR WAY LESS OF A PRICE.

 

[jeb1517]

Something that I haven't read in the article or in the comments...I hate how Apple seems to disguise the issues their customers have with their products (deleting posts on forums for example). But with Windows (and PCs) if you have a problem, it is usually pretty easy to find a solution or get support for it.

 

[Guest]

(I still have not read the article, because are fast saving pages to read offline)

Apple vs. xxxx Price Comparison:
1 Both computers are overpriced. PC clones are cheaper if I want it.
2 I can make my own PC, part by part.
3 I can change any component of my PC.
4 I can buy a PC without OS, choice my most loved OS, and use him in any future updated PC.
5 I can buy a cheaper CPU, and upgrade in 6 months (maybe) at 25% of today prices.

Take it Apple: I LIKE choice. I DEMAND choice. I ALREADY HAVE choice.
I love freedom, I love control, I have it, is cheaper than Apple, is more convenient (¿Why pay more for something less convenient?); I love games.

And mac OS can be pirated, and installed on much PCs, but still is not massively done as with windows.
So, even FREE, most people don't want Mac OS. Is for a reason: Apple is even more greedy and monopolist than Microsoft. I hate Microsoft, but live in it (yes, Linux is not really an option -still-).

 

[mindless728]

# *BASE_PRICE: [+799]
# ADAPTER: Universal AC-DC Adapter
# BATTERY: Li-Ion 6 Cells 4400mAh Battery Pack (MS163A)
# BAGS: Free Deluxe Carrying Bag for 15.4 Inch Notebook
# CPU: Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Mobile T8300 Dual-Core Processor @ 2.40GHz 800FSB 3MB L2 Cache 64-bit [+166]
# CD: 8X DVD REWRITABLE DRIVE
# FLASHMEDIA: Built-In 4in1 Media Reader
# FREEBIE_OS: None
# HDD: 320GB 5400RPM SATA150 HARD DRIVE [+48]
# INVERTER: NONE
# IEEE_CARD: BUILT-IN 1394 IEEE FIREWIRE PORT
# KEYBOARD: BUILT-IN KEYBOARD
# MOUSE: BUILT-IN TOUCHPAD
# MODEM: BUILT-IN 56K V.92 FAX MODEM
# MOTHERBOARD: Intel PM965 + ICH-8M Chipset Mainboard
# MEMORY: 4GB (2x2GB) PC5300 DDR2-667 SODIMM Memory [+100] (Corsair or Major Brand)
# NOTEBOOK: MSI MS-163A Notebook 15.4" Glossy WXGA 1280x800 Pixel w/ NVIDIA GeForce GO 8600M-GT 512MB Video, 1.3 Mega Pixels CMOS Camera, Intel Core2 Duo Mobile Processor, & 802.11g Wireless
# NOTEBOOK_COVER: MSI MS-163A Notebook Cover (Original Color)
# NB_LCD: 15.4" WXGA TFT LCD Display 1280x800 Pixels
# NETWORK: Built-in 10/100/1000 Mbps Network Card
# NB_TRAVELKIT: NONE
# OS: Microsoft® Windows Vista™ Home Premium w/ Service Pack 1 (64-bit Edition [+19])
# PRINTER: None
# PRINTER_CABLE: None
# RUSH: NO; READY TO SHIP IN 5~10 BUSINESS DAYS
# SOFT: Free 60 Days Microsoft® Office® 2007 (Words, Excel, Access, Power Point, Outlook + More) - Windows Vista™ Required
# SERVICE: STANDARD 1-YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY AND 24/7 LIFE-TIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT
# SOUND: BUILT-IN AC 97 SOUND
# SPEAKERS: BUILT-IN STEREO SPEAKERS SYSTEM
# TVRC: None
# UPS: None
# USB: 4 x USB2.0 Port Connectors
# USBHD: NONE
# VIDEO: Built-in NVIDIA GeForce GO 8600M-GT 512MB Video
# VIDEOCAMERA: Built-in 1.3 Mega Pixel Webcam
# WNC: Wireless 802.11G 54Mbps MiniPCI Card
# _PRICE: (+1132)
# _view_: detail

how about this, cyberpowerpc.com, about the same as the mac, and well, alot cheaper $1132

 

[ravenware]

The baseline MacPro is actually a pretty good deal.
And actually the mock up system from the article is flawed.
The MacBook Pro uses Harpertown processors which are considerably more expensive than the yorkfield processors. ($328~)

To touch on my issue with the Windows/Mac compatibility(from previous article);
Out side of boot camp the article had mentioned a virtualization method of some sort. Now, does that mean that the user can directly interact with windows only files via osx 10 or is the method simply a way of switching between operating system environments?

 

[JimmyJimmington]

All bootcamp does is let you dual boot to other OS's

 

[KyleSTL]

For arguments sake:

Comparing a Mac Mini to a Lenovo A57 SFF PC -
Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz (Mobile C2D for Mac, Desktop E2180 for PC)
1GB DDR2 667 (2x512 for Mac, 1x1GB for PC) - upgradable to 2GB (option - $100 for Mac, $38 for PC)
160GB HDD (Mac has slower 5400rpm 2.5" drive, the PC has 7200rpm 3.5")
DVD+-RW

Mac - $849
PC - $457
Mac is 85% pricier than it's PC equivalent (and less powerful due to its 667FSB (as opposed to the PC's 800FSB). The Mac Mini is top-of-its-line. The Lenovo can go up to a E8200 processor and 4GB ram (the Mac tops out at 2GB). You can add an ATI HD 2400Pro or XT video card to the PC (the Mac can only do the Intel GMA950 built into the MB, the PC comes stock with GMA 3100 - marginally better).

No comparison whatsoever.

 

[eltouristo]

I dont own a MAC, but I want to repeat that if you are primarily focused
on haveing a HTPC with a focus on PVR funtions like tuning, recording, removing commericals, recoding, etc, the hardware and esp software and the way it plays nice with other software on MAC is WAY beyond PC, which is suprisingly retarded. You cant come ANYWHERE NEAR the MAC convenience and functionality on a PC for ANY price. Although this may change someday (lol) if the cos that makes that pvr sys (and editor) for MAC are able to port them with everything intact and get it to work with a good PC 'media center' interface.

 

[Guest]

You really need to research the video card detail you print. The 8700M has up to 512mb of dedicated video memory as well as shared memory. I have not seen any for sale with less than 256mb of dedicated video memory. The Dell you compared it is a gaming laptop so it should have had the full 512. So the Apple is running an older slower video card with possibly less memory.

 

[Roan]

Reading all the hysterical comments from insecure PC users is rather entertaining. For a group who would probably pride themselves on their logic, they totally fail to apply it in this situation.

If a PC user thinks that Apples are for people who don't know how to use computers, then I would imagine that he would not mind a UNIX user to believe the same about him and other PC users?

With this article the author has illustrated that Apples are no more overpriced than some of their PC-based equivalents. All without ever even attempting to include the added value of running OS X, which is technically a far superior OS than XP or Vista.

If Apples are overpriced, then so are many Dells, HPs, and many other PCs. However, they somehow still manage to grow market share. Hard to do that is your are truly over-priced.

Great job Tuan, keep up the good work. There is place for more than one type of OS in the PC market.

 

[Antioch18]

This wasn't an OS review. It was a hardware review. Yes, there will always be overpriced PCs, but with PCs there are cheaper alternatives - none with Apple computers. Maybe the overpriced PCs are priced that way because they see people will buy expensive Apple machines? Or maybe vice-versa, who knows for sure. However, again, you can get cheaper, better PCs than you can Apple machines (setting OS aside, as I prefer Gentoo Linux ;P)

 

[tracyfearson]

Your comparison has some flaws. Here are some better indicators:

MacBook
13-inch: Black
2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
250GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
Superdrive 8x (DVD+R DL/DVD+RW/CD-RW)
Keyboard (English) / User's Guide

$ 1,499

Lets look at a Dell.....

Vostro 1510

My System Details
Intel® Core? 2 Duo T9300 (2.5GHz, 6MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic, Service Pack 1
1 Year Basic Limited Warranty plus 1 Year Mail-in Service
15.4 inch Widescreen WXGA LCD Anti-Glare Display
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz, 2 DIMM
8X DVD+/-RW with double-layer DVD+/-R write capability, with Roxio Creator
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce? 8400M GS
250GB 5400RPM SATA Hard Drive
Dell Wireless 1395 802.11g Wi-Fi Internal Card
Integrated 1.3 mega pixel Web Camera and Digital Microphone

$1,154

Tracy

 

[eltouristo]

"With this article the author has illustrated that Apples are no more overpriced than some of their PC-based equivalents" close-Macs are no more overpriced than the most overpriced PCs. but see my above post about PVR funtions.

 

[gxsolace]

these comments are just hilarious, some of them anyway. Keep'em coming folks. Take out the big guns, thrash, bash, insult, name call, BS, whatever, show your true selves.

/snore.

Some of you PC fanatics are really douches in your arguments.

 

[V8VENOM]

More Microsoft PC fanboys -- I could disolve every stupid lame anti-Mac point listed here by the same peanut gallery of people that post against all Mac articles, but what's the point -- it will not change the ignorant. Be clueless and enjoy your Microsoft based PC.

Tell ya what, where do you take your Microsoft based PC that you built for less money when you have a problem with it?? Answer, you don't take it anywhere cause you can't.

Go to an Apple store -- crowded isn't it. Apple produce computers for people that don't want to spend their free time searching for drivers and solutions as to why their computer doesn't work. They have lives!!

Sure shop around, it's the Price is Right -- oh brother. SSDD

 

[BillLake]

Wow were to begin, Interesting concept to show the value of using an Apple product. Lets just say I have been using a MacBook Pro for about 2 years running OS X and Vista. My primary PC is a Quad core based Shuttle SX38P2 so I am not afraid to spend a little extra for what I want. Here is the key to Apple products. Good design, different OS that excels in some fields and when purchased at the right time a good value. Why would anyone want a dual core XEON system unless you are a workstation user? why would you compare a 17" to a 15.4" Laptop? The logic is flawed in the arguement. The reason you buy a Apple product is you like the way it works. I specifically picked my MacBook Pro because it had the best keyboard I have ever used on a laptop. Plus it was the only one that I could find that had a back light for the keys. How many Dell's have that feature? How many value systems lack that and have crappy keyboards? So Apple products usually have some value added features and that should have been the arguement. Of course if you have no need for those features then you won't want to pay the extra for Apple products and really have no reason to do so. So buy the hardware that fits your needs. If that is a value system, a high performance system or a 20.1" "Laptop" that weighs 15+ LBS then do it but everyone needs to realize this is just hardware and software is what you buy the hardware to run.

 

[KyleSTL]

I dont own a MAC, but I want to repeat that if you are primarily focused
on haveing a HTPC with a focus on PVR funtions like tuning, recording, removing commericals, recoding, etc, the hardware and esp software and the way it plays nice with other software on MAC is WAY beyond PC, which is suprisingly retarded. You cant come ANYWHERE NEAR the MAC convenience and functionality on a PC for ANY price. Although this may change someday (lol) if the cos that makes that pvr sys (and editor) for MAC are able to port them with everything intact and get it to work with a good PC 'media center' interface.

Someone who's obviously never dealt with a good tuner and the Vista Media Center. I had no idea Apple even supported TV except in their Apple TV (do they with the MacPro and Mac Mini?).

 

[jamesl]

$2000, great gaming laptop

http://www.gateway.com/systems/product/529668159.php

Genuine Microsoft® Windows Vista® Ultimate (64-bit) SP1

Intel® Core™2 Duo Processor1 T8300 (2.40GHz, 800MHz FSB, 3MB L2 cache)

4096MB 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (2-2048MB modules)

400GB 7200rpm Serial ATA hard drive w/ Raid 0 (2-200GB hard drives)

NVIDIA® GeForce® 8800M GTS with 512MB of GDDR3 discrete video memory

17.0" WUXGA Ultrabright TFT Active Matrix (1920 x 1200 max. resolution)

Intel® PM965 Chipset

8x Multi-Format Dual Layer DVDRW with DVD-RAM featuring Labelflash™ Technology5

Integrated 1.3 Megapixel Web Cam

Expansion Slots One ExpressCard™ Type 54

External Ports (3) USB 2.0, VGA Connector, V1.2 HDMI Connector, IEEE 1394 Firewire Port, e-SATA and Kensington Lock Slot

Bluetooth® 2.0+EDR

Integrated Intel® 802.11a/b/g/Draft-N Wireless Networking

Full Keyboard with a great feel

 

[tracyfearson]

Lets look at a desktop....

iMac

iMac 20-inch

Apple Mighty Mouse
2 GB 800MHz DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1 GB
None
320GB Serial ATA Drive
Apple Keyboard (English) + User's Guide
None
2.66GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

$1,499.00


Dell.....

My System Details
Intel® Core?2 Duo Proc E8300 (2.83GHZ, 6MB L2 Cache, 1333FSB)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic, Service Pack 1
1 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 1 Year NBD On-Site Service
Free upgrade from 19inch E198WFP TO 22inch E228WFP Wide Flat Panel Monitor.
3GB DDR2 SDRAM 667MHZ - 2X1GB+2X512MB
Free Upgrade! From DVD to DVD+RW
500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache?
Dell Energy Smart Enabled
256MB ATI Radeon HD 3650
No Floppy Drive
No Modem Option
Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
No Pre-installed Productivity Software
No Pre-installed Anti-Virus/Security Software

$799

The $700 price difference is pretty hard to justify for the business user.
That is a pretty big difference in price.

 

[fuser]

[citation][nom]V8VENOM[/nom]More Microsoft PC fanboys -- I could disolve every stupid lame anti-Mac point listed here by the same peanut gallery of people that post against all Mac articles, but what's the point -- it will not change the ignorant. Be clueless and enjoy your Microsoft based PC.Tell ya what, where do you take your Microsoft based PC that you built for less money when you have a problem with it?? Answer, you don't take it anywhere cause you can't.Go to an Apple store -- crowded isn't it. Apple produce computers for people that don't want to spend their free time searching for drivers and solutions as to why their computer doesn't work. They have lives!!Sure shop around, it's the Price is Right -- oh brother. SSDD[/citation]

If you're stupid and don't know how to use a screwdriver, then you could take a PC to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. I rarely have computer problems. The last time I had to open my case or "look for a driver" was about a year ago when my CD-R drive failed. Replacement cost: $30.

 

[Guest]

This article is comparing apples and oranges, no pun intended. What kind of honesty is there in comparing a 15-inch Apple laptop with a 17-inch Dell and then saying that the Apple is better because it's lighter? The 17-inch Macbook Pro would have been a truly appropriate comparison, but wait ... it costs $800 more! This story belongs in a tabloid.