The choice between EQ2 and WOW.

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"the wharf rat" wrote:
> In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
> Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
> >Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.
>
> Actually, that's not true.

I never said anything about the quality of the food they can produce. ;-)

Crash
 
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"Crash86" <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vLBxd.31361$Pw2.19248@fe05.lga...

> What, exactly, is the difference between having a NPC in-game tell you
> exactly where to go and what to do to complete a quest (or an an exact
> tradeskill recipe) and having to go to a third-party site to get the same
> info?
>
> Personally, I like the fact that I've never ... not ever .. not once had
to
> go to an outside resource to comple a quest or come up with a recipe in
WoW.
> IMO, getting the info from a NPC tends to keep one more engaged in the
game.
>
> Crash
>

The OP said that there wasn't anything available to help with quests if you
got stuck...I just listed a few sites that I thought may help him.

I haven't had a problem getting info from an NPC - it didn't take long to
figure out that if you're out of range the NPC will always shrug and to try
the next one, you will get an answer eventually.
 
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"Cheddar" <me@there.net> wrote in message
news:4jExd.8575$Lo6.5975@fe80.usenetserver.com...

> On a similar point, did the developers simply miss out most aspects of the
> game in the manual. I was a lvl15 predator before I knew you could use
> poision on your blades. The manual didnt mention this at all and it's been
> in the game from the beginning. I could understand if the feature was
added
> in the patch but this wasnt the case.
>

You can put poison on your blades? hehehe... and I'm now lvl17 =)
 
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the wharf rat wrote:
> In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
> Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.
>
>
> Actually, that's not true.
>

Yes, yes. My exwife gave me twenty years of living proof. Well actually
it was all dead, but you know what I mean.

--
Get Thunderbird - Reclaim Your Inbox
http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/

Get Firefox! - The Browser You Can Trust
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<nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> In article <1103552736.717596.223880@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
> > Basically WoW is more for the newcomer, a simpler game, more solo
> > oriented.
>
> > EQ2 is for the old style MMORPG player. Complex (less so than EQ1 but
> > still complex), difficult at times, and pretty much requires you to
> > group.
>
> > You can solo in EQ2, but for the most part you will need to be
> > in a group.
>
> I think EQ1 is among the simplest of mmogs that I've ever played. I'm
> not sure why you'd even think of suggesting that it was complex.

I'm curious what you base that on. From my perspective (and I've played
them *all* at least a bit), EQ is without a doubt the most complex of any of
the MMOGs. A lot of that complexity comes late in the game, though.

I don't think that is a good thing (at least, not always). There's a
certain breed of people that enjoy every bit of complexity thrown at them,
and a larger segment of the population that likes things more structured and
easier to grasp.

> I would agree that EQ2 is "harder" than WoW, but not because its more
> complex, or more advanced, or anything but the raw fact that progression
> is slower and you need a group to progress at all at a reasonable speed.
>
> So you'll get farther in the same amount of time in WoW. But that's more
> owing to EQ2 being less generous with the XP, particularly on soloable
> content than anything to do with 'complexity'.
>
> > I see them as almost opposite games. Either you like one or the other,
> > it's just a matter of styles.
>
> We can all agree with that. Why not just stick with that instead of
> trying to elevate EQ2 as being the 'advanced title'? :)

From my (very short, shorter than any other MMOG game I've ever tried) time
in EQ2... it's a sad and sorry game. It's like they took EQ, stripped out
every redeeming quality, including any complexity whatsoever as there is
nothing "advanced" about the gameplay at all, and gave it a better graphics
engine. I freely admit that that is simply my opinion. As someone who has
played EQ from the beginning, and has enjoyed various other games to one
degree or another, I simply cannot understand why EQ2 has been any sort of
success. But then, there are people that enjoy being beaten with rubber
hoses too, and I never understood that either. =)
 
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Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:
> What exactly was changed during the beta to final stage? I'm curious as
> there seems a lot of very obvious problems that must have been spotted
> during the beta but were simply ignored by the developers.
I can't say anything as i did not bother with EQ2. But I bet they did
not ignore these 'problems' merely just tried to fix the more serious
bugs in time. :)


Hagen
 
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wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) wrote in news:cq9b0n$9cm$1
@panix2.panix.com:

> In article <EgWxd.33955$Oz7.21800@fe05.lga>,
> Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
>>Anyone can cook when using a cookbook.
>
> Actually, that's not true.
>
>

Lol - my GF had problems making Kraft Mac and Cheese
when I met her. Good thing I can cook :)

--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
Lanys T'vyl (Retired)

Mairelon, 14th Paladin
Silverhand

My WoW Mods: http://therealorang.com
 
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Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> In alt.games.everquest Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Thank you for mentioning this, as I was beginning to wonder if I was the
>>only one who had noticed it. I had noticed that of the software I run,
>>EverQuest 2 does tend to force me to restart the system after use, or
>>after I use it a few times, as it seems to give my machine a fairly
>>hefty memory hit.
>>
>
>
> I have not had this problem at all. I am curious about your
> configuration. Do you use NVidia drivers by chance? I use an ATI
> Radeon 9700Pro 128MB DDR video card with the ATI Catalyst drivers and
> have not noticed any trouble with memory leaks [I am running P4-3.06HT
> w/1024MB RDRAM1066].
>
>

Yep, I'm running a 128MB GeForce 4, with the most recent drivers. Also
running a P4, 2.5GHz processor with 512MB RAM.

>>That said, I doubt it's entirely EverQuest 2's fault. I believe my
>>machine is suffering a few memory related errors, however EQ2 causes the
>>worst of them.
>>
>
>
> The more memory and cpu itensive an application the much more likely you
> are to uncover memory or cpu problems if they exist.

I can't be sure they exist but a recent test between my machine, and a
friend's similar configuration (same ram and graphics card, similar
processor) showed he was running a few newly released games at
performance settings (shadows, some reflecting, middlin
textures...equivalent to EQ2's Performance settings) without any hiccups
or slowdowns. I, meanwhile, get what in my opinion feels like hardware
slowdown...memory bottlenecks, with the game stalling for a microsecond
every few minutes then going back to full strength.

As an example, Counter-Strike:Source/Half-Life 2 is reporting a 50 -
100fps range, yet giving the performance of around 10 - 20 fps. EQ2 is
pretty similar.

--
Michael Greenhalgh
---
www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
---
MMORPGs
EverQuest:
Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

EverQuest 2:
Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

City of Heroes:
Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
---
 
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Hagen Sienhold wrote:

> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
>>classes and plot progression for each character to be very
>>disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
>>EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
>>however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
>>progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
>>improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
>>the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
>>to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
>>diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
>>middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's harmonious
>>Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
>>while they were at it?
>
>
> This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
> suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
> I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
> Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
> dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
> proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
> couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
> choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
> same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
> your concern.
>
>

Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
parts of Antonica to the main city.

For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.

>>Like I said, all this rambling and it hasn't put me off EQ2 at all,
>>however it hasn't helped make the game more enjoyable than City of
>>Heroes for me, and hasn't stopped me yearning for the style of gameplay
>>I have in EQ1. I go back to EQ1 to get that gameplay, but the zones are
>>quiet and I just keep thinking "I want the graphically rich world and
>>the busy zones back".
>
>
> Amen to that. I really hope they do merge servers. Especially the ubi
> servers as they are nearly dead imho.

It would be nice to have some company playing EQLive...I tend to steer
clear of it now as it's a fairly lonely game where my character is hunting.


--
Michael Greenhalgh
---
www.tripleb.co.uk | Weblog
www.loonygooncircus.com | {LgC} Clan Site
www.suta.co.uk | Swansea University Tactical Airsoft Society
---
MMORPGs
EverQuest:
Miglok | Half-Elf Ranger | Venril Sathir

EverQuest 2:
Miglok | Half-Elf Predator | Lavastorm

City of Heroes:
Shadow Ranger | Mutation Scrapper | Virtue
---
 
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In alt.games.everquest Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Yep, I'm running a 128MB GeForce 4, with the most recent drivers. Also
> running a P4, 2.5GHz processor with 512MB RAM.
>

I think you really need 1024MB RAM for this game. I suspect certain
resources are allocated and not often deallocated as you move through
the game [this is not a leak if the memory is being managed ... i.e. a
pointer exist somewhere in the program to that memory block]. It has
been written here many times that the minimum requirements for this game
really make it unplayable.

> I can't be sure they exist but a recent test between my machine, and a
> friend's similar configuration (same ram and graphics card, similar
> processor) showed he was running a few newly released games at
> performance settings (shadows, some reflecting, middlin
> textures...equivalent to EQ2's Performance settings) without any hiccups
> or slowdowns. I, meanwhile, get what in my opinion feels like hardware
> slowdown...memory bottlenecks, with the game stalling for a microsecond
> every few minutes then going back to full strength.
>
> As an example, Counter-Strike:Source/Half-Life 2 is reporting a 50 -
> 100fps range, yet giving the performance of around 10 - 20 fps. EQ2 is
> pretty similar.
>

Half-life 2 is another game that really excels with more memory. I
played it for awhile with 512MB of memory without issue, as long as I
stopped lots of the services ahead of time [like virus scanners, fax
monitors, etc]. I finally sprang for the additional 512MB when I bought
EQ2. It was quite a bit more expensive for me than it will be for you
because my machine takes RAMBUS 1066.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 
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Thomas T. Veldhouse wrote:
> I finally sprang for the additional 512MB when I
> bought EQ2. It was quite a bit more expensive for me than it will be
> for you because my machine takes RAMBUS 1066.


Heh, exactly my situation--and no more RAMBUS for me.

And then I didn't even play EQ2 beyond the introductory month. It
absolutely needs that full gig of RAM, too. I can't say the game ever
played smoothly on my machine, regardless of my settings, but it played
much, much better.

EQ2 isn't exactly unplayable at a half-gig of ram, but it's very very slow
and very very aggravating.

--
chainbreaker

If you need to email, then chainbreaker (naturally) at comcast dot
net--that's "net" not "com"--should do it.
 
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wolfing1@yahoo.com wrote:
> Did I say 'advanced' anywhere?
> I said EQ2 is more complex, harder, with a steeper learning curve than
> WoW. The experience MMORPGer could get to max level in Wow in a
> fraction of the time it'd take in EQ2, and then, there's a high chance
> they'll get bored of the game sooner (for those people that like to
> race to max level and then get bored).

I think what you are doing here is equating "grouping requirements" with
"complexity". These are not mutually inclusive traits and I believe
your reference above is way over generalized. There are several quests
that really are much easier to do as a group in WOW, and by what I have
read, elite quests mostly require groups to complete. Still, I have
seen no lack of complexity in WOW when it comes to quests. I have run
across some pretty complex quests that require several tasks [not just
killing monsters] to complete.

> Several dungeons in EQ2 require you to perform complex quests, many of
> them requiring full groups to complete. This is what I meant by
> complex. To some people, this is a stupid approach, and thus, are the
> type of people that like games like WoW and CoH where they can advance
> at their own pace and not miss much content. To others, this is what
> makes a MMORPG for them, needing other people, trusting in their
> capabilities, do your job and hope for the best... these are the type
> of people that like games like EQ2.
> A game being complex doesn't make it better or more advanced than
> another, just makes it attractive to some types of players.
>

See my comment above about Wow and complexity as you define it. It
exists in Wow as well. Perhaps the difference between Wow and EQ2 in
this respect is how much of this is required. By what I have read,
higher levels in EQ2 are often mostly blocked from advancement without
group based quests. SOE has apparently taken note of this and may be
changing it. I am curious as to how this will manifest.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
 
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:52:35 +0100, Hagen Sienhold wrote:

>Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:

>> 5. Map - Awful! Why cant you see what direction you are facing?

>The first one was heavily discussed in beta and I'm glad they did *not*
>put an arrow on that map.

I think I read in the fix list for the current beta that such an arrow is on
its way, and I don't see what harm it could do?
--
Henrik Dissing
Vork - Dwarf Warrior on Highkeep
Member of Highkeep Ring

(e-mail: hendis AT post DOT tele DOT dk)
 
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In article <1103644786.019556.152730@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
> Did I say 'advanced' anywhere?

Advanced is a synomym for complex, and I think is an appropriate one
considering your apparent intended meaning.

> I said EQ2 is more complex,

And I said it isn't. Its a pretty simple game, and very much on par with
WoW.

> harder,

Again I disagree. I think its -slower-. But not harder. Getting to max
level in EQ2 is a longer road than it is in WoW... but its not a harder
one.

> with a steeper learning curve than
> WoW.

To which I alluded WoW perhaps deserves props for writing a better more
intuitive UI.

> The experience MMORPGer could get to max level in Wow in a
> fraction of the time it'd take in EQ2,

So? The same is true of an inexperienced MMORPGer. It also says nothing
about complexity or difficulty... just reinforces that progress in EQ2
is slow as molasses by comparison. But a newbie might prefer that and an
experienced player might not... ie there is no reason to suggest that
WoW is more suited to newbies than EQ2 based on the fact that EQ2 takes
longer to play.

> and then, there's a high chance
> they'll get bored of the game sooner (for those people that like to
> race to max level and then get bored).

For people that like to race to max level and get bored this will happen
in any game. Newbies and Experienced MMORPGers alike.

> Several dungeons in EQ2 require you to perform complex quests, many of
> them requiring full groups to complete. This is what I meant by
> complex.

Ah... well. Then your use of the word "complex" is completely
inappropriate. There is nothign more complicated about it. Its merely a
different style of play. I'll grant that the overhead of finding a group
and the need to 'make friends' in order to progress in EQ2 may be
daunting to solo types... but that doesn't make the game harder or more
complicated, it just underscores that EQ2 doesn't support solo
playstyles very well.

> To some people, this is a stupid approach, and thus, are the
> type of people that like games like WoW and CoH where they can advance
> at their own pace and not miss much content. To others, this is what
> makes a MMORPG for them, needing other people, trusting in their
> capabilities, do your job and hope for the best... these are the type
> of people that like games like EQ2.

OK. But that's just saying that different play styles will prefer
different games. And I already agreed with that. What I disagree with
your assertion that EQ2 is more complex than WoW, and that EQ2 is aimed
at MMOG vets while WoW is aimed at newbies.

> A game being complex doesn't make it better or more advanced than
> another, just makes it attractive to some types of players.

When you divided the players into the groups "newbies" and "experienced
MMORPGers" based on comparative complexity, then the conclusion that you
think EQ2 is more advanced is inescapable.


And ultimately its silly, because EQ2 really isn't more complicated.

At most its somewhat more restrictive because you practically *have* to
group to *anywhere*. But that doesn't make it more complicated nor more
difficult a game.

>
> Just for the record, City of Heroes could be considered one of the
> simpler games out there (no inventory, no loot, no crafting, etc) yet
> it's the most enjoyable MMORPG I've ever played.

At least you recognize there is no inherent connection between
complexity and fun. (Although some people do delight in the surfeit of
details in a complex system...)

:)
 
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In article <MPG.1c320f2817061708989946@shawnews>,
42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
>Advanced is a synomym for complex

That's not necessarily true. For instance, an overhead
cam engine is more advanced than a flathead, but far less complex.
 
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In article <cq9tfs$6l4$1@panix2.panix.com>, wrat@panix.com says...
> In article <MPG.1c320f2817061708989946@shawnews>,
> 42 <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> >Advanced is a synomym for complex
>
> That's not necessarily true.

Its not necessarily untrue either though. Few synonyms are completely
interchangeable. There are nearly always subtle differences in nuance of
meaning. Advancedment and Complexity usually flow in the same
direction... but I'll concede: not always.

> For instance, an overhead
> cam engine is more advanced than a flathead, but far less complex.

No argument.

I'll happily concede that sometimes advancedment makes things simpler.

But that's not usually case, and more often not the simplicty achieved
is actually result of hiding something even more complex. :)

A new car is simpler to operate than an old one. But it is both vastly
more complex and advanced under the hood.

This applies to EQ2/WoW they are both more complicated games than EQ1.
And they are both easier to use.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Of the 250 odd quests I've either completed or am in the process of doing,
I've only done external research on about 5 of them.
I've only started I think two quests after reading about them externally.
Yep, I've had no trouble both in finding quests or completing them at all as
most of them are reasonably straight forward.

I am honestly suprised at how many people say they hate the EQ2 quest system
for precisely the reason you indicate. Yes the quest system has a couple of
issues, and some quests are broken ... but not many, and almost none of the
quests have the kind of difficulties you are alluding to.
 
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"Crash86" <crash86@shotmail.com> writes:

> <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote:
> > The difference is that in the second case, you can wait with checking
> > the exact details until you're really stuck, while in the first you
> > know from the beginning. For me, this takes away some of the fun of
> > exploring, which is why I've pretty much never used any third-party
> > sites for EQ2 quests, except for ones that are bugged. An example is
> > Cleansing the Corruption in Stormhold, which requires me to kill two
> > defiled squalls, but the squalls are bugged and seem to get stuck
> > where they can't be reached, which I didn't know until I checked it
> > outside the game. Maybe later on I'll need to, but I hope not.
>
> That would be great if that's the way it worked. Unfortunately, it doesn't
> work that way. Folks research encounters before they even start them. In
> fact, it can be said that such research is required reading for many
> encounters.

Other people may not do it that way, but _I_ do. EQ2 quests aren't as
vague as EQ quests. The fact that some, maybe most, don't want to
play that way doesn't mean it's an invalid design, just one that
doesn't work for everyone.


> In WoW, I've never started a quest on purpose ... not once. Every quest
> I've done has been started by the same method, which goes something like
> this: "Hey, there's a NPC with a yellow exclamation point over his head.
> Let's see what he's handing out." Walk over to NPC, click on them, get
> info, accept quest. I've never researched any quests in WoW, nor do I
> intend to.

And pretty much the same holds true in EQ2 for me, of the 240ish
quests I've completed maybe five or ten I have done any out of game
research on, often because they've been broken in some way (which I
can certainly believe WoW does better, SOE really need to fix up their
QA process).


> I know quite a few people who won't play EQL (or EQ2) without having a
> second box right next to them to be used for hitting the spoiler sites.

In the case of EQ2, that's either because they're used to it from
other games, or they just aren't interested in solving them on their
own. I like doing it on my own, with sometimes a bit of help from
someone in game, and I like there being a bit of legwork involved.


> Mind you, with Blizzard's system I still get the fun of exploring .... in
> fact, that's one of the things I'm enjoying most about WoW. It's a new
> world, and I don't know precisely what's around that next corner. I'm
> focused, I'm having fun, and I don't want to have to leave that to go to a
> third party site to find out the precise loc of the particular NPC in all of
> some huge zone (like Antonica) I need to talk to to move the quest along.

I've never had to do that in EQ2, it just isn't as necessary as you
seem to think it is.


> To each their own.

I quite agree, some people will prefer WoW, some EQ2, some EQ, etc.
That's not a bad thing.

Not that I know anything about WoW quests, really, as I've only done
something like the first four quests I found in night elf land. They
may have much the same appeal as EQ2 quests to me, for all I know.

--
Vidirix, 24th level paladin of Qeynos on Runnyeye with ~240 quests finished
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest, alt.games.everquest2, alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Advanced isn't a synonym for complex!
Is Apple's Ipod less advanced than the other MP3 players out there
because it's simpler to use? Quite the contrary!
Is Diablo less advanced than Wizardry 1?
Complex doesn't mean better.
 
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Crash86 <crash86@shotmail.com> wrote:
> <patrik@nordebo.com> wrote:
> [...] Folks research encounters before they even start them. In
> fact, it can be said that such research is required reading for many
> encounters.
I'd say this is absolutely untrue and takes quite a bit fun out of any
encounter. I did not realize this until I chatted with friends from my
old guild and they told me how the enjoyed our tries at Shei Vinitras
then. I was raidleader and surely I did research everything I could. But
since we only had about 25-30 people everytime we could not burn him
down like the bigger guilds did. And we really had a hard time learning
the script(the 4 adds at the beginning of the script gave us headache).

But my point is even though I DID think they get tired of wipe after
wipe I often was asked to schedule another Shei raid just for the fun of
learning this encounter. So I believe raiding would be much more fun
when people ignore these spoilers and start working on their own
strategy as spoilers really aren't necessary.


Hagen
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
> Hagen Sienhold wrote:

>> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
>>>classes and plot progression for each character to be very
>>>disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
>>>EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
>>>however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
>>>progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
>>>improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
>>>the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
>>>to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
>>>diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
>>>middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's harmonious
>>>Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
>>>while they were at it?
>>
>>
>> This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
>> suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
>> I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
>> Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
>> dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
>> proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
>> couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
>> choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
>> same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
>> your concern.
>>
>>

> Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
> having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
> in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
> seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
> spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
> to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
> parts of Antonica to the main city.

But this might be explained a bit by the storyline. There has not been a
choice but to concentrate around the major cities. But atleast the
qeynos people did retain or remade some of the environment they came
from. Freeport suburbs seem to be designed exlusively by ogres. :/

> For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
> only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.

If they wouldn't allow people to freely choose which suburb to live in
these places would be more different from each other I guess.


Hagen
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest (More info?)

Henrik Dissing <sorry@drowned.in.spam.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:52:35 +0100, Hagen Sienhold wrote:

>>Cheddar <me@there.net> wrote:

>>> 5. Map - Awful! Why cant you see what direction you are facing?

>>The first one was heavily discussed in beta and I'm glad they did *not*
>>put an arrow on that map.

> I think I read in the fix list for the current beta that such an arrow is on
> its way, and I don't see what harm it could do?
Of course it does no harm. But the word that has been beaten to death
in the beta was immersion. 😉

And I can't argue against the point that it will hamper said immersion.
After all when I run in EQ1 using the map I don't even pay attention to
my surroundings. I just open the map and steer after the nice arrow
there.

It's nice to have a map - won't argue here. But it would be even
better to use them like a real map. Just find your spot on it
and take the compass to navigate and occasionally check back with your
map.


Hagen
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

"Hagen Sienhold" <durragon@web.de> wrote in message
news:kedbqc.v41.ln@arellarti.fqdn.th-h.de...
> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
> > Hagen Sienhold wrote:
>
> >> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Elsewhere, however, I do find the lack of variation between races,
> >>>classes and plot progression for each character to be very
> >>>disappointing, though it hasn't been enough to put me off playing
> >>>EverQuest 2. We were told when the game was released, this is not EQ1,
> >>>however I constantly feel that it should be. To me a sequal is a
> >>>progression, taking the positive aspects of the predecessor and then
> >>>improving them, and in some areas they have done this. They have taken
> >>>the world and given it a facelift, taken the graphics and reworked them
> >>>to take full advantage of modern computers. So why not take the
> >>>diversity that EQ1 had (I remember my Froglok's dark, dank home in the
> >>>middle of nowhere, and how different it felt to my Half-Elf's
harmonious
> >>>Surefall Glade home which lay so near to Qeynos) and improve on that
> >>>while they were at it?
> >>
> >>
> >> This is something I can't understand. Have you visited the Qeynos
> >> suburbs. The lovely halfling village or the cold dwarfen settlement?
> >> I find the Qeynos side quite versatile. However I was disappointed with
> >> Freeport! Every single suburb is the same slum like place. I did try a
> >> dark elven rogue there but was really annoyed what has become of such a
> >> proud race. Even though I did like way the npcs there talked to me I
> >> couldn't stand the way my home town looked. And I didn't even had a
> >> choice. Be it Troll or ogre or ratonga or whatever - all had the exact
> >> same slum to live in. So at least for the Freeport side I can second
> >> your concern.
> >>
> >>
>
> > Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
> > having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
> > in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
> > seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
> > spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
> > to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
> > parts of Antonica to the main city.
>
> But this might be explained a bit by the storyline. There has not been a
> choice but to concentrate around the major cities. But atleast the
> qeynos people did retain or remade some of the environment they came
> from. Freeport suburbs seem to be designed exlusively by ogres. :/
>
> > For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
> > only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.
>
> If they wouldn't allow people to freely choose which suburb to live in
> these places would be more different from each other I guess.
>
>
> Hagen

It does fit in with the lore of the game that Freeport would allow less
individuality than qeynos. I think Lucan't trying to make himself a go, and
encouraging the vices in people like intolerance, self-pity, bigotry is part
of what it's all about. I think his tower floats on the fire produced by the
consumption of his cities' souls.

In Qeynos, as a barbarian sharing an area with dwarves, i find most of the
area is to my scale, but there are places where i have to stoop most
uncomfortably. There's friction and griping (we miss the snow! Qeynos never
gets cold enough...) but there's a determination to get along and make the
most of things.

The frogloks miss their home, and tell you as much, and there's a quest to
try and help them, but the elves they share with allow frogloks to wade in
the fountains, and that's a sacrifice for them to do, more than it would be
for a human. Kerrans miss their plains but at least they have their fish and
a greater interaction with other races than they ever knew before. Perhaps
contact with the vah shir resulted in this race, perhaps they are the
children of both kinds.

I think they did great things with the lore of eq2, as well as the
characterisation of the npc's, and the contrast between the two
philosophies. Freeport if hyper-capitilist, alsmost satanic, polluted and
dull. Qeynos strives to find a balance between trees and factories, and it's
parks and open theatre exist because of the generosity of it's people... it
has the best parts of a religion like christianity or buddhism, or socialism
if you like. they are both ideals, unrealistic true, but i think there's a
nice philosophy lurking behind this game.

Ralph, Crusader for Qeynos, 15th Season.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

In article <1103724276.502813.166970@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
wolfing1@yahoo.com says...
> Advanced isn't a synonym for complex!


> Is Apple's Ipod less advanced than the other MP3 players out there
> because it's simpler to use? Quite the contrary!

You substituted 'simpler to use' for just 'simpler'.

Apple's ipod is not simple. Its easy to use. But in order to do what it
does its actually a more complicated and elaborate device/software than
other more cumbersome units.

> Complex doesn't mean better.

Quite right.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.everquest,alt.games.everquest2,alt.games.warcraft (More info?)

Shadow <kitchen@fis.org.nz> wrote:
> "Hagen Sienhold" <durragon@web.de> wrote in message
>> Michael Greenhalgh <spammy@tripleb.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Well I find the Qeynos suburbs to be pretty samey, in some cases even
>> > having almost the same layout to the zone, however my problem lies more
>> > in the fact that they are suburbs of Qeynos. I enjoyed having them as
>> > seperate towns of their own in EQLive, simply because they were greatly
>> > spread out, it gave some variety to the landscapes and towns to navigate
>> > to and through, and all the races felt individual, being in different
>> > parts of Antonica to the main city.
>>
>> But this might be explained a bit by the storyline. There has not been a
>> choice but to concentrate around the major cities. But atleast the
>> qeynos people did retain or remade some of the environment they came
>> from. Freeport suburbs seem to be designed exlusively by ogres. :/
>>
>> > For me, the cities added to the diversification I already mentioned, not
>> > only in their style but in their physical seperation as well.
>>
>> If they wouldn't allow people to freely choose which suburb to live in
>> these places would be more different from each other I guess.

> It does fit in with the lore of the game that Freeport would allow less
> individuality than qeynos. I think Lucan't trying to make himself a go, and
> encouraging the vices in people like intolerance, self-pity, bigotry is part
> of what it's all about. I think his tower floats on the fire produced by the
> consumption of his cities' souls.

Well it should! But for my dark elf I would rather burn the whole city
down then to live in a place like that. I just doubt that dark elves
would accomodate to such a low place.

Oh, surely there are some dreamer npcs who talk of the grand past of the
dark elven race. I'm afraid that I can't make myself clearer but it just
does not fit the picture I have of the dark elves.


> In Qeynos, as a barbarian sharing an area with dwarves, i find most of the
> area is to my scale, but there are places where i have to stoop most
> uncomfortably. There's friction and griping (we miss the snow! Qeynos never
> gets cold enough...) but there's a determination to get along and make the
> most of things.

> The frogloks miss their home, and tell you as much, and there's a quest to
> try and help them, but the elves they share with allow frogloks to wade in
> the fountains, and that's a sacrifice for them to do, more than it would be
> for a human. Kerrans miss their plains but at least they have their fish and
> a greater interaction with other races than they ever knew before. Perhaps
> contact with the vah shir resulted in this race, perhaps they are the
> children of both kinds.

On the other hand Qeynos should work with those compromises. After all
this is the *good* city! :)

But my gripe wasn't with Qeynos.

> I think they did great things with the lore of eq2, as well as the
> characterisation of the npc's, and the contrast between the two
> philosophies. Freeport if hyper-capitilist, alsmost satanic, polluted and
> dull. Qeynos strives to find a balance between trees and factories, and it's
> parks and open theatre exist because of the generosity of it's people... it
> has the best parts of a religion like christianity or buddhism, or socialism
> if you like. they are both ideals, unrealistic true, but i think there's a
> nice philosophy lurking behind this game.

I think they made it simple. Just the good side against the bad side. No
shades inbetween. :/


Hagen
 

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