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scott91575
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- May 30, 2010
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[citation][nom]killerclick[/nom]If this is the case, then change the justice system, what can I tell you. What's to stop anyone with legal training and time on their hands to file lawsuits against people with no legal training? What's to stop me from sending a bunch of letters demanding money to random people rightnow?As for my example, in criminal cases they're not demanding money but they're offering plea bargains and public defense attorneys are advising their clients all the time to take the plea bargains even if they're innocent so yeah, my example is applicable in that sense. It's just that people who are actually pro-piracy have different standards for justice when it's one of their own in trouble.[/citation]
Way different plea bargaining for jail time vs. money. If you fight and win a criminal suit then you are a free man. If you fight and win a civil suit you end up paying more money than if you just settled. So no, it is not the same. There is no benefit to winning these types of civil suits, but in criminal suits your freedom, reputation, etc. is worth fighting it.
As for anyone filing a lawsuit, that can happen. Yet the problem there is most small timers don't have the money and time to continue a lawsuit if it does go to court, especially on a mass scale. Of course those practices still happen. Yet with large companies they can afford to go to court, win or lose. Not a big deal. With that knowledge they can further scare people into settling. It's a bully tactic and extortion no matter how you want to spin it. Not only should people notify their public officials, but they should boycott Voltage Pictures, Kathryn Bigelow, and everyone's products that support these types of tactics.
Let me be clear, I would not have an issue if these charges were criminal or if they actually planned on suing people instead of mass offering settlements. Yet by mass offering settlements they are clearly trying to extort money from people, and they should not be viewed in any good light whatsoever.
Way different plea bargaining for jail time vs. money. If you fight and win a criminal suit then you are a free man. If you fight and win a civil suit you end up paying more money than if you just settled. So no, it is not the same. There is no benefit to winning these types of civil suits, but in criminal suits your freedom, reputation, etc. is worth fighting it.
As for anyone filing a lawsuit, that can happen. Yet the problem there is most small timers don't have the money and time to continue a lawsuit if it does go to court, especially on a mass scale. Of course those practices still happen. Yet with large companies they can afford to go to court, win or lose. Not a big deal. With that knowledge they can further scare people into settling. It's a bully tactic and extortion no matter how you want to spin it. Not only should people notify their public officials, but they should boycott Voltage Pictures, Kathryn Bigelow, and everyone's products that support these types of tactics.
Let me be clear, I would not have an issue if these charges were criminal or if they actually planned on suing people instead of mass offering settlements. Yet by mass offering settlements they are clearly trying to extort money from people, and they should not be viewed in any good light whatsoever.
i do not pirate often, but when i do, i have 3 rules
1. it cant be currently sold in stores (they are not making money off of it anyway)
2. if it is sold in stores, i must already own it (pirated version is usually more portable)
3. i seed what i leach. (if i download 1GB i will upload 1GB)
1. it cant be currently sold in stores (they are not making money off of it anyway)
2. if it is sold in stores, i must already own it (pirated version is usually more portable)
3. i seed what i leach. (if i download 1GB i will upload 1GB)
Ok, let's get this straight. The producer spends, oh say, $25,000 on a lawyer, paper, printing, and stamps for demand letters to 5000 people. If twenty pay, he has broken even. After that, it is all gravy. The producer stands to make up to $7.5M off of his $25K investment. Not a bad racket if your the producer....
I believe the suit is for downloads, not shares. Think about that. Nowhere does it say completed downloads. So its entirely likely that many started the DL but didn't complete it. 1bit of Hurtlocker = GUILTY! = $1500. I think what they should do is just sue everyone everywhere for pirating this movie. Some will settle in fear. Lets pretend thats 1 in 10. Since this type of extortion is only legal in the US, that 307mil (us pop) x $1500 x %10 = $46 billion making hurtlocker the highest grossing movie of all time. Sure half of that will have to go to the law firm, but $26bil on a movie that cost $15 mil to produce is a good investment. Perfect business model.
Guilty until proven guilty, but why even have to prove anything when they'll just pay in fear? Its the new American profit model!
Im sorry but honestly, before they can do this they should need to subpoena your pc and verify that indeed you did DL the movie. Not just part of it, the full thing. Then like most civil suits not backed by corporate greed they should be able to sue for 3x the cost of goods, which would be the purchase price of the dvd. So i see this online for $30 MSRP, you should then be liable for $90 plus legal fees. Sadly this film has been reported by other sources as having been up for DL 6 full months prior to its debut at the festivals. Which means someone at, or possibly, voltage themselves seeded the original copies. Wow, organized corporate crime really does pay.
I guess since I wasted $15 on this piece of garbage in the cinema on the recommendation of many a fool, but I paid cash and didn't save my receipt, therefore I probably deserve a lawsuit from voltage too or at least a hot poker in the ass.
Guilty until proven guilty, but why even have to prove anything when they'll just pay in fear? Its the new American profit model!
Im sorry but honestly, before they can do this they should need to subpoena your pc and verify that indeed you did DL the movie. Not just part of it, the full thing. Then like most civil suits not backed by corporate greed they should be able to sue for 3x the cost of goods, which would be the purchase price of the dvd. So i see this online for $30 MSRP, you should then be liable for $90 plus legal fees. Sadly this film has been reported by other sources as having been up for DL 6 full months prior to its debut at the festivals. Which means someone at, or possibly, voltage themselves seeded the original copies. Wow, organized corporate crime really does pay.
I guess since I wasted $15 on this piece of garbage in the cinema on the recommendation of many a fool, but I paid cash and didn't save my receipt, therefore I probably deserve a lawsuit from voltage too or at least a hot poker in the ass.
- List of IPs, CHECK
- IP to address counterparts, CHECK*
- Automatic Mailer machine, CHECK
-> 5000 letters forcing the person to pay up a minimum of $1500 dollars, we make 7.5 million. Perfect plan.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM. They are guaranteed money with no actual evidence.
*Ignoring possibilities of someone else using wireless, or the fact we just randomly grabbed IPs from anywhere
- IP to address counterparts, CHECK*
- Automatic Mailer machine, CHECK
-> 5000 letters forcing the person to pay up a minimum of $1500 dollars, we make 7.5 million. Perfect plan.
THIS IS THE PROBLEM. They are guaranteed money with no actual evidence.
*Ignoring possibilities of someone else using wireless, or the fact we just randomly grabbed IPs from anywhere
LLJones
Distinguished
- Feb 28, 2009
- 141
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I would stop previewing movies aka pirating only under the following circumstances.
When I have shelled out my hard earned dollars to watch a movie in a theater, and decide say 30 minutes into the movie that what I am watching is a pile of junk, I have the right to get up and leave BUT I make a stop at the ticket booth on my way out and they refund my money with no questions or hassles.
As the average movie is 90 min. in length, it should only take you about 30 min. to decide.
There have been a lot of movies that at the end the only thing I could say was thank God I didn't waste my money on this piece of crap. There have also been a lot of movies that I have bought after watching because I have enjoyed them so much. How to train your dragon being the latest, great movie imo, buy it.
Last time I counted my DVD collection was over 300. Yes there are some real losers in the collection, but when they sell them 2 for $7, eh, what the hell, I'll watch it some night I can't get to sleep. Night Shift springs to mind.
Bottom line. If you are going to sell me a product, and that product does not even remotely live up the hype you have put around it and then say too bad so sad I've got your money and I'm not giving it back to you, what are you going to do about? Well, we all know the answer to that one.
When I have shelled out my hard earned dollars to watch a movie in a theater, and decide say 30 minutes into the movie that what I am watching is a pile of junk, I have the right to get up and leave BUT I make a stop at the ticket booth on my way out and they refund my money with no questions or hassles.
As the average movie is 90 min. in length, it should only take you about 30 min. to decide.
There have been a lot of movies that at the end the only thing I could say was thank God I didn't waste my money on this piece of crap. There have also been a lot of movies that I have bought after watching because I have enjoyed them so much. How to train your dragon being the latest, great movie imo, buy it.
Last time I counted my DVD collection was over 300. Yes there are some real losers in the collection, but when they sell them 2 for $7, eh, what the hell, I'll watch it some night I can't get to sleep. Night Shift springs to mind.
Bottom line. If you are going to sell me a product, and that product does not even remotely live up the hype you have put around it and then say too bad so sad I've got your money and I'm not giving it back to you, what are you going to do about? Well, we all know the answer to that one.
Luscious
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- Apr 5, 2006
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Sending out demand letters is one thing, paying the sheriff to serve court documents is another. She (Kathryn Bigelow) would need to shell out over $300,000 just in court and process fees alone up front, and that's before any money spent on her attorney. Even if the studio is representing her case, I say she is still a greedy b*tch.
Having e-mailed the producer (and actually gotten a response), I have to say he has a point. It costs money to produce a motion picture. Downloaders did steal his property. He does have the right to seek compensation. It's that simple.
So, plenty of you don't like it? TS.
This is no different than software piracy. It's wrong.
Artists deserve to be paid for their work.
So, plenty of you don't like it? TS.
This is no different than software piracy. It's wrong.
Artists deserve to be paid for their work.
aethm
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- Jan 21, 2009
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I'd like to know how they can prove that you uploaded even 1 copy of the movie? Is there a tracker that tracks uploads? What if you don't have your torrent set to upload at all? If it was me I'd be very tempted to fight it in court. Finding a judge that understands the technical aspects could be disastrous though.
[citation][nom]zachary k[/nom]i do not pirate often, but when i do, i have 3 rules1. it cant be currently sold in stores (they are not making money off of it anyway)2. if it is sold in stores, i must already own it (pirated version is usually more portable)3. i seed what i leach. (if i download 1GB i will upload 1GB)[/citation]
I would give you more thumb-ups if I could!
I would give you more thumb-ups if I could!
scott91575
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[citation][nom]iggybeans[/nom]Having e-mailed the producer (and actually gotten a response), I have to say he has a point. It costs money to produce a motion picture. Downloaders did steal his property. He does have the right to seek compensation. It's that simple.So, plenty of you don't like it? TS.This is no different than software piracy. It's wrong.Artists deserve to be paid for their work.[/citation]
No, it's not TS. Extorting people for money who you think may have wronged you is not the way to get justice. What is even worse is people like you backing up these tactics. They are hiding their immoral tactics by blaming piracy. You are the same people that told McCarthy to "go get those Communists!" Same excuses back then..."don't want to be accused as a Communist and your life ruined? Then don't be a Communist. Accused? Too bad, TS." Well, we all know how that turned out.
The means do not justify the ends, and sadly you people think this is about piracy. This is about extorting money under the guise of piracy, and you sit back and applaud this?
On top of all of this it will have zero effect on piracy. Anyone with half a brain knows that. There are direct download sites and ways to mask your IP, so their supposed way of finding pirates (which we don't even know is legit) is outdated anyway. That eliminates any excuse about sending a message (which would be bull anyway). So they blind you with the "we are owed money by people stealing from us" line, you eat it up, and then let them extort money from thousands of people. No true evidence needed. They know it. Perhaps this time around they have a little more proof, but guess what happens next time if this plan works? They are going to grab even more IP's with even less evidence. Who needs evidence when they know they can legally extort people, and even have people like you backing them up?
I hate to say this, but anyone backing up this tactic sickens me.
No, it's not TS. Extorting people for money who you think may have wronged you is not the way to get justice. What is even worse is people like you backing up these tactics. They are hiding their immoral tactics by blaming piracy. You are the same people that told McCarthy to "go get those Communists!" Same excuses back then..."don't want to be accused as a Communist and your life ruined? Then don't be a Communist. Accused? Too bad, TS." Well, we all know how that turned out.
The means do not justify the ends, and sadly you people think this is about piracy. This is about extorting money under the guise of piracy, and you sit back and applaud this?
On top of all of this it will have zero effect on piracy. Anyone with half a brain knows that. There are direct download sites and ways to mask your IP, so their supposed way of finding pirates (which we don't even know is legit) is outdated anyway. That eliminates any excuse about sending a message (which would be bull anyway). So they blind you with the "we are owed money by people stealing from us" line, you eat it up, and then let them extort money from thousands of people. No true evidence needed. They know it. Perhaps this time around they have a little more proof, but guess what happens next time if this plan works? They are going to grab even more IP's with even less evidence. Who needs evidence when they know they can legally extort people, and even have people like you backing them up?
I hate to say this, but anyone backing up this tactic sickens me.
[citation][nom]annisman[/nom]I hope each one of them have to pay the 1500$, let it be a lesson to all who want to steal.[/citation]
I agree 100%. It doesn't matter if the movie was good or not, the fact is they stole. It is a crime regardless of what is stolen.
I agree 100%. It doesn't matter if the movie was good or not, the fact is they stole. It is a crime regardless of what is stolen.
biohazard420420
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- Jul 14, 2006
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Solution for people who want to pirate movies its really easy actually DONT SEED. They are suing people for sharing the movie online the actual act of downloading is not what they are suing people for it is making it avaliable for others to download. The way I see it if your going to use utorrent dont upload, does that make it slower for everyone else sure but he it protects your butt from lawsuits. And while I do use torrents, I generally only download dj mixs that cant be bought anywhere live show feeds soundboard recordings from live shows etc.
biohazard420420
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- Jul 14, 2006
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Solution for people who want to pirate movies its really easy actually DONT SEED. They are suing people for sharing the movie online the actual act of downloading is not what they are suing people for it is making it avaliable for others to download. The way I see it if your going to use utorrent dont upload, does that make it slower for everyone else sure but he it protects your butt from lawsuits. And while I do use torrents, I generally only download dj mixs that cant be bought anywhere live show feeds soundboard recordings from live shows etc.
so... if they are tracking by IP.. what happens when they get an IP from a University's network? most big networks use NAT so they only have a few external IP's that are used for thousands of people inside their private network. i know some of you think, well.. if they check the router/firewall for logs it would be possible to track the mac address of the NIC to the assigned private ip, but nobody does this and most networks simply don't have logging setup. Even if it was setup, it would be next to impossible to find the computer's owner of that MAC address... so who would be responsible in this case? the university? what if somebody torrented the movie from starbuck's wifi, is starbucks responsible? even if it was a residential address's IP, its easy enough to say your wireless is not secured and somebody else must have done it... there's no way you can actually "identify" a specific person through IP. i would think it wouldn't make sense just to charge everybody that used that IP right?
I am sorry that I didn't spend too much time to read all of the comments. However, those "filthy" rich media company have a payroll to feed many families. Some of these families are your neighbors, friends, or even some of them could be your children.
Think, if some of these people are unemployed, because those companies lost money on their productions that your friends and families had work so hard just to make ends meet. Then how should we feel about piracy on movie IPs.
And I want to also remind some of you, that besides movies that these media companies produces. They also support other industries with their production process. A lot of mouths are also being fed in this process.
I will rest my case, and be glad that someone can afford my paycheck with real money. Thank you!
Think, if some of these people are unemployed, because those companies lost money on their productions that your friends and families had work so hard just to make ends meet. Then how should we feel about piracy on movie IPs.
And I want to also remind some of you, that besides movies that these media companies produces. They also support other industries with their production process. A lot of mouths are also being fed in this process.
I will rest my case, and be glad that someone can afford my paycheck with real money. Thank you!
unrealpinky
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- May 24, 2010
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@Zer0Gravity: I'm sure that most of those IPs are residential addresses and not university domains. Hence the reason why there was a separate effort by the RIAA to make the universities held accountable for the online activities of their students and faculty.
If you want to stay anonymous then I would recommend encrypted transmissions or proxies. Personally, I think it is in extremely poor taste for a production house to go after the public is such a way, but then again, Nicholas Chartier is not what I would call the classiest guy in the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8546775.stm
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/05/18/voltage-pictures-pre.html
http://culturemap.com/newsdetail/03-04-10-is-the-hurt-locker-too-realistic-or-not-realistic-enough/
Seems like an attention grabbing opportunist to me.
If you want to stay anonymous then I would recommend encrypted transmissions or proxies. Personally, I think it is in extremely poor taste for a production house to go after the public is such a way, but then again, Nicholas Chartier is not what I would call the classiest guy in the world.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8546775.stm
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/05/18/voltage-pictures-pre.html
http://culturemap.com/newsdetail/03-04-10-is-the-hurt-locker-too-realistic-or-not-realistic-enough/
Seems like an attention grabbing opportunist to me.
vic20
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- Jul 11, 2006
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Zero beat me to my thoughts 
Whats going to happen when Hotels, Coffee Shops, Schools, etc. etc. get this letter?
Joe sixpack would sooner not hire a lawyer just to end up paying more, but somehow I don't think businesses with public wifi may not put up with such tactics. Hell I'm sure some of these companies have more lawyers on their own payroll than the firm sending the letters.
Whats going to happen when Hotels, Coffee Shops, Schools, etc. etc. get this letter? Joe sixpack would sooner not hire a lawyer just to end up paying more, but somehow I don't think businesses with public wifi may not put up with such tactics. Hell I'm sure some of these companies have more lawyers on their own payroll than the firm sending the letters.
xxsk8er101xx
Splendid
- Dec 31, 2007
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If I have 20 dollars in the savings, 10 dollars in checking, and 15 dollars cash on me and someone asks for a million dollars from me how much do you think they'll get? I can tell you they will not be getting a million dollars.
[citation][nom]chad1011[/nom]Ok, let's get this straight. The producer spends, oh say, $25,000 on a lawyer, paper, printing, and stamps for demand letters to 5000 people. If twenty pay, he has broken even. After that, it is all gravy. The producer stands to make up to $7.5M off of his $25K investment. Not a bad racket if your the producer....[/citation]
[citation][nom]chad1011[/nom]Ok, let's get this straight. The producer spends, oh say, $25,000 on a lawyer, paper, printing, and stamps for demand letters to 5000 people. If twenty pay, he has broken even. After that, it is all gravy. The producer stands to make up to $7.5M off of his $25K investment. Not a bad racket if your the producer....[/citation]
neiroatopelcc
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- Oct 3, 2006
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I suppose if your movie doesn't sell, you can always try to get your investment back by suing someone...
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