The Power Supply Unit tier list Discussion thread

[CGurrell]

XFX is SEASONIC.

I know and the units are top notch, what I'm saying is that the information on the boxes of their units isn't great.

I have the Black Edition 1250W unit, great unit, can't fault it, and got it on a great deal. The box has a few flaws though (all mentioned in Jonny's review here: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story&reid=273), e.g. it describes the unit as single "EasyRail", and tries to show why single rail is better than multi-rail with diagrams etc. Not only are the diagrams misleading to an extent, but the unit itself has 4 12v rails, not 1. They also advertise the fan as ball-bearing, when it's actually a better fluid dynamic bearing.

Again, not criticising the unit in any way, seasonic units are some of the best around, but the box design team needs a little work.

 

[dottorrent]

I'm wondering if Jonny would be interested in helping to keep this list updated. Just a thought. I've been wanting a tier list to show up on JonnyGuru, but I know that would be a seriously daunting task for those who are already very busy.

I'm taking Christmas off with no plans, sooo.....

Well, competition is always a good thing right?

 

[jonnyguru]

Oh just a quick question, if you were to do this, would really bad information on the box be grounds for downgrading a unit? All I have to say is XFX and you should understand what I'm getting at 😛 Great units but their box design department needs, well lets be nice lets say "re-educating".

haha... Yeah. Shame really. I REALLY liked those XFX units I reviewed... but the amount of garbage B.S. marketing and misinformation on the box just pissed me off. They don't send samples anymore. 🙁

I wouldn't knock them down a tier for stuff like stupid marketing or poor documentation. Save that for the actual reviews.

 

[jonnyguru]

XFX is SEASONIC.

You make it sound like they're the same company. ;-)

Well, competition is always a good thing right?

I'm not wanting to compete. I want to help. If you think I'm stepping on your toes, I won't touch it.

 

[Dark Lord of Tech]

jonny any info on the new SEASONIC models coming from EVGA?

 

[CGurrell]

Oh just a quick question, if you were to do this, would really bad information on the box be grounds for downgrading a unit? All I have to say is XFX and you should understand what I'm getting at 😛 Great units but their box design department needs, well lets be nice lets say "re-educating".

haha... Yeah. Shame really. I REALLY liked those XFX units I reviewed... but the amount of garbage B.S. marketing and misinformation on the box just pissed me off. They don't send samples anymore. 🙁

I wouldn't knock them down a tier for stuff like stupid marketing or poor documentation. Save that for the actual reviews.

That's too bad. Then again, if their units are based on seasonic models, then there will be other models with the same internals at least, so at least we'll have a rough idea of how any new units will be.

 

[tiny voices]

I would not knock the XFX units down at all. This is a quality based chart. And those units are very good. If we were looking at the WHOLE package including things like the box, aesthetics, etc. the list would look completely different.

I would leave the XFX right where they are. At most leave a little note in brackets saying some BS marketing can be found on the box.

 

[dottorrent]

If you wanna help, then sure. I mean, a lot of people have helped me out on the list and with your level of expertise, this list would look as clean as ever.

 

[Novuake]

I agree. Screw the packaging, while annoying, its no reason to drop any units. The marketing spiel is prevalent through the whole industry.

Motherboard marketing is THE worst thing for me. 😀

 

[Lutfij]

If you wanna help, then sure. I mean, a lot of people have helped me out on the list and with your level of expertise, this list would look as clean as ever.

Do we start voting if jonny should provide his expertise 😀 ? If so I'd say +1

FYI - the Toughpower 750 unit I own was bought in a time where Tt was the only brand available(in my country). Jonny's review helped me make the purchase with a clear conscience. I'd only suggest that the list be edited with Jonny's assistance keeping in mind that the market has been flooded with more than just marketing BS but paper weight units as well. The list should help people make a purchase all while realizing why it's in a designated tier.

 

[CGurrell]

If you wanna help, then sure. I mean, a lot of people have helped me out on the list and with your level of expertise, this list would look as clean as ever.

Do we start voting if jonny should provide his expertise 😀 ? If so I'd say +1

+1 if we do

 

[Lutfij]

I know its customary to raise one hand up when voting, but I have the other hand ready to go up :lol:

 

[Novuake]

Since my vote is already in, I have an odd one, I have generally been under the impression that most Thermaltake units are dodgy, obviously no all, and that the TR2s are especially bad.
However I just came across the below review on a previous link.
Any clarification of version? How to identify them without stripping? Which are bad, which are good?

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-700-W-Power-Supply-Review/1422/1

 

[CGurrell]

Since my vote is already in, I have an odd one, I have generally been under the impression that most Thermaltake units are dodgy, obviously no all, and that the TR2s are especially bad.
However I just came across the below review on a previous link.
Any clarification of version? How to identify them without stripping? Which are bad, which are good?

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-700-W-Power-Supply-Review/1422/1

Maybe specific model/serial numbers specify which internals are used? I would still stay away though as there's no guarantee as to which one you're getting

 

[Novuake]

Maybe specific model/serial numbers specify which internals are used? I would still stay away though as there's no guarantee as to which one you're getting

I agree!

Not asking because feel it needs to be change on the list, just wondering if anyone has more info.

 

[jonnyguru]

Since my vote is already in, I have an odd one, I have generally been under the impression that most Thermaltake units are dodgy, obviously no all, and that the TR2s are especially bad.
However I just came across the below review on a previous link.
Any clarification of version? How to identify them without stripping? Which are bad, which are good?

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-700-W-Power-Supply-Review/1422/1

The new TR2's are made by FSP and CWT and are decent. About tier 3 quality. The Q Fan models are "just ok" (like CX quality, except all SamXon, including the primary). It's the old HEC built ones and the TR2 RX that are truly dreadful and can't even put out their advertised power. But they're all discontinued.

 

[dottorrent]

Since my vote is already in, I have an odd one, I have generally been under the impression that most Thermaltake units are dodgy, obviously no all, and that the TR2s are especially bad.
However I just came across the below review on a previous link.
Any clarification of version? How to identify them without stripping? Which are bad, which are good?

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-700-W-Power-Supply-Review/1422/1

The new TR2's are made by FSP and CWT and are decent. About tier 3 quality. The Q Fan models are "just ok" (like CX quality, except all SamXon, including the primary). It's the old HEC built ones and the TR2 RX that are truly dreadful and can't even put out their advertised power. But they're all discontinued.

The TR2 800w seems decent enough, though only 2 reviews were done and they aren't the best at doing PSU reviews, so I would doubt there's sufficient evidence to give it a Tier 3.

 

[jonnyguru]

Since my vote is already in, I have an odd one, I have generally been under the impression that most Thermaltake units are dodgy, obviously no all, and that the TR2s are especially bad.
However I just came across the below review on a previous link.
Any clarification of version? How to identify them without stripping? Which are bad, which are good?

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Thermaltake-TR2-700-W-Power-Supply-Review/1422/1

The new TR2's are made by FSP and CWT and are decent. About tier 3 quality. The Q Fan models are "just ok" (like CX quality, except all SamXon, including the primary). It's the old HEC built ones and the TR2 RX that are truly dreadful and can't even put out their advertised power. But they're all discontinued.

The TR2 800w seems decent enough, though only 2 reviews were done and they aren't the best at doing PSU reviews, so I would doubt there's sufficient evidence to give it a Tier 3.

The TR2 800 was done by Hardware Secrets (as Novuake linked), KitGuru and VR Zone. And the TR2 700 is based off the same platform (except the older CWT one, which uses the PUQ platform). They're rated at 50°C (including the CWT version), have a Japanese primary and Teapo secondaries.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The new TR2's are made by FSP and CWT and are decent. About tier 3 quality. The Q Fan models are "just ok" (like CX quality, except all SamXon, including the primary). It's the old HEC built ones and the TR2 RX that are truly dreadful and can't even put out their advertised power. But they're all discontinued.

But apparently still sold by TigerDirect, along with a whole fracking slew of supposedly discontinued Ultra units. Somebody has a stockpile of these older Ultra and Thermaltake units and is still offloading them through TigerDirect, who is also including them in bundles. That, or they're not actually discontinued. I'd avoid them entirely and I continue to verbally disregard them at every opportunity until it's proven to be a thing of the past. Like the Turbo button or the 5.25" floppy.

 

[realmister]

Oh my! I found this list a week ago and thought to myself: "This is useful!" and signed up to tomshardware forum just to thank dottorrent for doing this amazing research & classify little ant job out of the goodness of his heart (srsly man, you're the guy!), and now I see sir jonnyguru himself contributing to it!?

Please guys, no competition, please. With you two working together, this is going to be THE reference for anyone like me who doesn't understand bollocks of brands of capacitors and can't make heads or tails from all this brand/manufacturer hide 'n seek.

+1 and a cup of beer for this partnership!

 

[dottorrent]

Oh my! I found this list a week ago and thought to myself: "This is useful!" and signed up to tomshardware forum just to thank dottorrent for doing this amazing research & classify little ant job out of the goodness of his heart (srsly man, you're the guy!), and now I see sir jonnyguru himself contributing to it!?

Please guys, no competition, please. With you two working together, this is going to be THE reference for anyone like me who doesn't understand bollocks of brands of capacitors and can't make heads or tails from all this brand/manufacturer hide 'n seek.

+1 and a cup of beer for this partnership!

Thank you for your support dude!

 

[ko888]

But apparently still sold by TigerDirect, along with a whole fracking slew of supposedly discontinued Ultra units. Somebody has a stockpile of these older Ultra and Thermaltake units and is still offloading them through TigerDirect, who is also including them in bundles. That, or they're not actually discontinued. I'd avoid them entirely and I continue to verbally disregard them at every opportunity until it's proven to be a thing of the past. Like the Turbo button or the 5.25" floppy.

TigerDirect and Ultra Products are divisions of the Systemax group of companies. That's why you see such a close relationship between the two.

 

[Darkbreeze]

TigerDirect and Ultra Products are divisions of the Systemax group of companies. That's why you see such a close relationship between the two.

That makes sense then I suppose, whether I think it's a good idea or not is another story. 'Course, I quit using them a long time ago for most things especially bundles and bare bones kits, due almost entirely to their inclusion of crappy parts with them, especially the PSUs. What I don't understand is that I had a conversation with Dottorent, not to throw him under the bus as I too greatly appreciate the amount of work and dedication he puts into making the list as good as he can, where he indicated Ultra units were no longer listed because they are discontinued.

Since Tiger sells them by the bucketful and since novice builders who come to Tom's seeking help are constantly either including them in builds or intending to, on a pretty regular basis, I suggested maybe they SHOULD be listed just to indicate the general poor quality or if there are models with merit, that as well. Tiger sells 39 models of Ultra PSU at varying levels of supposed "quality", and Newegg sells 1 model. Other vendors sell them as well. It seems self defeating to exclude a brand that clearly has NOT discontinued making PSUs and is partnered with one of the largest PC hardware sites in the world.

 

[jonnyguru]

But apparently still sold by TigerDirect, along with a whole fracking slew of supposedly discontinued Ultra units. Somebody has a stockpile of these older Ultra and Thermaltake units and is still offloading them through TigerDirect, who is also including them in bundles.

Hmm.. Interesting. Not to be a conspiracy theorist or anything....

SYX buys their Ultra PSUs through HEC even though they're made by either Andyson or SRY. They do this because Andyson and SRY don't have the financial insurance that SYX's upper management requires. The "bad" Thermaltakes also come from HEC. So I wonder if they cut a deal with HEC for all of their overstock.

Hmm....

 

[Darkbreeze]

I wouldn't have a clue, being honest, you guys are way over my head in this area (Although I am trying to change this and become more knowledgeable about the inner workings rather than just the obvious factors), and I realize model changes and build quality can change quickly sometimes. I'd think that you might be right in that regard, but more importantly to me is that their representative quality on any list be accurately (To some degree at least) reflected. Differing sub-models of a PSU brand series should be individually recognized unless the entire series is terrible as a whole, which generally I know you guys try to do.

In all truth, to my way of thinking at least, identifying what units are really terrible, slightly less terrible and almost terrible, seems to be just as important as identifying what units are really excellent. Since you can't possibly review every known unit out there, at least knowing what to avoid leaves you with a decent chance of getting a unit that is somewhat acceptable or possibly quite good, rather than these novice builders going with a POS because it has a respected or known name attached to it and costs somewhere between 40-90 bucks inferring that it must be good when in fact it's really poor.

I think for the most part the TR2 and Ultra units, along with a lot of others, many of which may not even be known in certain markets like the US but are common in places like India or Europe, need to be focused on since they ARE common and are more likely to be sourced by the average builder than a top shelf unit is going to be.