The ultimate AGP video card today?

[palmtree]

I know these questions are damn. But please, and I promise I am trying to research the latest jargons😀

Q1: Can my 5-year old system even take GDDR3 video card memory type?
Video card memory has nothing to do with mobo RAM type, right? Because my mobo takes only DDR266 RAM......

Brief description of my system is below.

- CPU: Intel Pentium 4 2.2 GHz; Socket 478; Chipset 845/ICH2; Memory DDR266 (2GB)
- Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IRXP: 1 x AGP 4X slot (1.5V - 1.8V) and AGP 2.0 compliant
- Power supply: Enermax 530W Power [Model: EG651P-VE (FMA)]
- PC case: Lian Li PC-70 USB ATX Full-Tower (Silver)
- Display: NEC LCD 1850E (Planning to upgrade to Dell 2707WFP 27" soon)

Q2: 128bit or 256bit
Is 256bit better than 128bit or otherwise? Don't laugh!😀
And in what ways will the difference affecting the card's performance?

 

[dagger]

Aaahh, that is kindda info I really wanted. Thanks many times 4745454b!
I was concerned with the possible heat issues with 6800Ultra myself after readings and discussions. So 6800Ultra is out for sure.

I have people recommending against ATI 2600Pro/XT solely because of their lousy drivers. As I had hard time with the ATI drivers before thought not nightmare, I am being held back. Else I will just jump on it and sit back enjoy some movies 😀

After a series of calls to stores, it seems prices go like this for these three, in HK.
ATI HD 2600Pro about USD100 (zero tax and no shipping),
add USD10 I will get 2600XT; and for about USD120 I will get X195Pro.
Price-wise they really don't make too much different to me however I am concerned about which is the wisest choice for my situation. Might just get 2600Pro though!

If you can find x1950pro for just $10 more than 2600xt, get it. It's certainly much more powerful.

 

[4745454b]

I have people recommending against ATI 2600Pro/XT solely because of their lousy drivers. As I had hard time with the ATI drivers before thought not nightmare,

If you trust the people, then you can listen to them. I have an older ATI/AMD card BTW, an x1800XT. Before that I had an 9700, then a 9600pro AIW. I NEVER had any driver issues with any of the cards. I have heard in forums that the AGP bridge currently used on the 2000/3000 series of cards CAN have issues. I haven't heard anything official.

After a series of calls to stores, it seems prices go like this for these three, in HK.
ATI HD 2600Pro about USD100 (zero tax and no shipping),
add USD10 I will get 2600XT; and for about USD120 I will get X195Pro.

Are all of these cards AGP? The 2600pro is enough to handle your system, the 2600XT should be alright also. I would spend the extra $10 to get the speed boast. If you are worried about the AGP bridge, what Nvidia cards do you have? If you can find an 8600GT, that would be a good card to. (8600GTS is alright to, but I don't think those were ever put on the AGP bus.) Don't get the 8500GT or anything lower then the 8600GT, they are junk cards. What is the price on the 7600GT?

Q1: Can my 5-year old system even take GDDR3 video card memory type?
Video card memory has nothing to do with mobo RAM type, right? Because my mobo takes only DDR266 RAM......

Correct. Video card ram is different from motherboard ram, and they aren't dependent on each other at all. One can be running DDR1 while the other can run DDR5. If it fits in the slot, you can run it. You are going to be plugging the video card into the AGP slot, it doesn't matter what other things are running.

Q2: 128bit or 256bit
Is 256bit better than 128bit or otherwise? Don't laugh!😀
And in what ways will the difference affecting the card's performance?

This number refers to the size of the bus that exists on the card between the GPU and its memory. In theory, the larger the number, the faster the interface. There is another number that is important also, the frequency speed of the ram. These two numbers combined will give you the bandwidth for the card. You can't just look at the bus width and say X is faster then Y. Y's memory might be clocked high enough to overcome the lower bus width. In general, 256bit cards are better then 128bit ones, but its not 100% In general, avoid 64bit cards at all costs.

If you can find x1950pro for just $10 more than 2600xt, get it. It's certainly much more powerful.

Was true when the cards first came out, not so true anymore. Newer games run faster on the 2600xt/3650 then they do on the x1950pro.

 

[palmtree]

Thanks 4745454b for the detailed replies and follow through. And thank you so much those showed me both great patience and generous help in this thread.

I'm very much discouraged about buying HD2600Pro/XT after reading buyer feedback at Newegg. The feedback clearly shows that the AGP version of HD2600Pro/XT is not dying but dead, killed by AMD's cease in driver development. I highly doubt those OEM manufacturers can release any decent drivers. My tentative conclusion is that I am not going to buy something already dead and not supported.

Second, in my gut I don't trust the concept of pseudo-AGP bridge used in HD2600Pro/XT. I like genuine AGP much better.

In strong contract, nVidia GeForce 7600GT is well received by buyers such as those on Newegg (Model#: 512-A8-N559). I am still fiercely debating with myself. I might either try to get 7600GT as cheap as possible (USD120 in HK) or just cheaper 7600GS. However those of your comments greatly made me concerned about GF 7600 series limited capability.

In short, at this moment I am totally unable to decide which to go for, HD2600 Pro or GF 7600GT/GS.

Again I can forget about gaming even entirely. But as I've said, I love watching HD videos and movies.

 

[4745454b]

You want a native AGP card? You'll have to go back several generations to get one of those. 6800GT was native, as was the x800/x850 cards that were AGP. Those were the last cards to not use a bridge chip. (as a matter of fact, any PCIe cards that are of that era are AGP cards with a PCIe bridge chip.)

I don't let newegg reviews shape my purchasing decisions. To many times the "reviews" are left by either noobs, or fanboys and shouldn't be paid attention to. AMD hasn't ceased driver development at all. AMD puts out new drivers every single month. Most of the support is for the 3xxx line, though I'm sure there is some for the 2xxx. You can even get a 3650 for AGP.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131097

I'm not sure how much of a problem the bridge chip is. I do know that any modern card on AGP would have one. (would be needed to translate the AGP signals being sent to the card to PCIe signals so the chip can understand what its being sent.) If you aren't gaming at all, do try to get the 2600pro/xt or 3650. It has much better video abilities compared to the 7600GT/GS.

 

[nvalhalla]

I have come to rescue you. The 2600 XT is your video card. Great performance with DDR3 RAM, newest HD decode to offload the VC1 and H264 from your poor CPU. Much quieter than the 1950pro, which doesn't have the HD offload. Yes, there were some issues with drivers, but those have been fixed. If you don't like CCC (I don't either) check out Omega's drivers http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati.php He hasn't updated them in the last few months... but 7.12 is plenty new enough. He specifically states that the 2600 AGP cards are fully supported.

 

[KyleSTL]

I have come to rescue you. The 2600 XT is your video card. Great performance with DDR3 RAM, newest HD decode to offload the VC1 and H264 from your poor CPU. Much quieter than the 1950pro, which doesn't have the HD offload. Yes, there were some issues with drivers, but those have been fixed. If you don't like CCC (I don't either) check out Omega's drivers http://www.omegadrivers.net/ati.php He hasn't updated them in the last few months... but 7.12 is plenty new enough. He specifically states that the 2600 AGP cards are fully supported.

Did you even read the other posts?

 

[palmtree]

Call me crazy, damn or whatever. I bought this.
"SAPPHIRE 100228L Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X HDCP Ready Video Card - Retail"

Paid for about USD150 in Hong Kong. I read great review about it, and the price was very cheap. I could not help. Plus I got very tired of debating with myself about what to get - had two sleepless nights.

Just hope my PSU will take it, and CPU does not bottleneck it, too much......

Again thanks all for your helpful comments and great patience. Though the result was a bit different😀

 

[4745454b]

Not a bad price on the GPU. If you were looking at ~$100-$125 for a 3650, and got a 3850 for just a little more, I'd say you did a great job. You now have the fastest card for the AGP, a midrange card for PCIe. You should have no problems watching movies with this beast, and could even play a game or two if you ever felt like it.

 

[KyleSTL]

That's a good deal. I'd say money well invested (other's may disagree). Your PSU should handle it nicely, I'd say you will enjoy your new part.

 

[palmtree]

I got my HD3850 AGP card today. Boy, I've never held a card this heavy and long😀

Well, never had a new video card since my Radeon 9700 Pro, I have question about the video card power cable. It has 8-pin connector that goes to the card and two 4-pin ones that go to PSU. Details are shown in picture.

Do I have connect all those two 4-pin connectors to PSU or will connecting one be enough?

Specs of my PSU
Enermax (by Coolergiant) EG651P-VE V2.01 (24P) FM 24P Series 550W ATX Power Supply
ATX 12 Ver 2.01 SATA, PCI-Express, Dual Fan Quiet for Dual Xeon, AMD MP, Intel P4, AMD XP, K8 CPU: EG651P-VE (24P) (20/24 Pin, Retail)

Features:

*Low noise & Ultra Cool" thermal control power supply with dual fans solution recommended by "AMD™ System Cooling Guidelines".
* Support dual Intel Xeon & AMD MP CPU Server/Workstation board.
* FM Function-allows system to monitor power supply for 8cm fan rpm.
* Thermal controlled8cm 9cm fan rpm auto adjusting bases on temp detected inside power supply.
* Support Intel P4 and AMD XP & K8 CPU wit Enhance +12V output +12V and Aux power connector
* Safety Approvals: UL, cUL,TUV, DEMKO, NEMKO, SEMKO, FIMKO.
* EMC Approvals: CE, FCC, CNS directives.
* Dimension W150 x H86 x D140 (mm)
* Adapters for 3 in 1 (EPS +12V, ATX-GES, ATX):
- EPS12V To AMD ATX GES
- EPS12V To ATX 12V

--
Source: http://www.xpcgear.com/eg651pvefm24p.html

 

[4745454b]

The adapter is for older PSUs that don't have the newer 8 pin PCIe plug. (mine has a six pin, but not the newer 8 pin.) You do need to plug to of them into the adapter. Seeing as you have an enermax, you might want to go out and get something a little better, more so if you are posting because you don't have enough free plugs to plug into both.

 

[KyleSTL]

Yes. You will need to plug both Molex connectors into the adapter. Otherwise only 2/4 12V lines will be connected (and 2/4 neutral as well). Bad advice, 4745454b.

Second, your PSU should be able to handle the video card. Enermax is a respected OEM, and some of their models are top-tier and have been praised by everyone who's reviewed them (Infiniti, Liberty, Modu/Pro82+, Galaxy, sound familiar?!?!). Your PSU has a Tier 3 rating:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088

Tier 3 Brands - High Quality and Stability, Second Only To Tier 2 Brands
...
Enermax CoolerGiant

and a combined 12V rail rating of 36A:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=205763

Enermax http://www.enermax.com/
OEM: Enermax
...
XPS 2 EG651P-VE FM(24P) ~36A

Please don't spread fud.

 

[4745454b]

Sorry, I don't see the bad advice that you are talking about.

First, my quote should read,

You do need to plug two of them into the adapter.

I'm sorry if that sounded like you should only plug one in, I meant two, but spelled the wrong one.

As for the quality of the unit, I did say that he MIGHT want to get a better one, and MORE SO if he lacks the two free molex plugs. Your own link does claim that its a tier three, so there is room for improvement. No where in my post did I claim that it was a poor unit and should not be run. I'm not sure what FUD you think I'm spreading, but I do not appreciate your tone.

BTW, he probably does have the lack of Molex plugs due to the number of harddrives he runs, and unless he has fixed his reboot problem, a new PSU MIGHT be what he needs. (I hope you caught the might...)

 

[KyleSTL]

Sorry if I sounded a little nasty. I just don't like when people say 'ZOMG, your PSU sux, you need a PCP&C Silencer 750 before your computer blows up!' (And I'm not saying you said anything like that)

I just didn't want the OP to needlessly buy a PSU before even trying it out (or saying he's out of molex connectors). Again, I apologize for the misunderstanding and jumping on you.

 

[Amiga500]

Damn GPU lunched itself last night....


I guess I'll be getting a 3850 shortly.

 

[4745454b]

^______________

?????

 

[Amiga500]

^______________

?????

Dust build up in the wire gauze over the fan = overheat = dead.



I had been considering a new GPU anyway, so it isn't such a big deal...

 

[KyleSTL]

That sucks, what's your setup?

 

[Amiga500]

That sucks, what's your setup?

That machine is one of the last of the AGP line, and is a skt 939.


4600 X2 in it now, up from an FX53 (or 51, not sure which)
3 GB RAM (not tuned - think its all PC3200 but couldn't be sure)
was a 6800GT
asus a8v deluxe mobo

 

[KyleSTL]

Definitely worth it for <$200 for your system.

 

[Guest]

Thought about Leadtek Winfast 6800Ultra which I can get from a trusted seller at less than USD80 locally in Hong Kong. Is it any good for HD movies?

I did a bit of catch with the latest and some considerations. They sound amatuar but I am trying get the whole thing done quick. Appreciate your comments and critiques.

ATI Family:
- 2600 Pro/XT (first candidate for HD movies, in)
- X1950 (not yet sure how compared with others)
- 3650 (too much for my system, out!)
- 3850 (too much for my system, out!)

nVidia Family:
* 6800Ultra (not yet sure how compared with others)
* 7600GT (second candidate, in)
* 7800GS (too much for my system, out!)
* 7950GT (too much for my system, out!)

Thank you.....finally someone who makes a list....these cards are so hard to compare / every brand has its own numbers...Tnaks for your work..
Peter