The Ultimate Hardware Guide [Last Update: 4-14-06]

[crizazykid2]

Last edited by MadModMike on Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:35 pm; edited 30 times in total

Can't you get it right the FIRST TIME?!?

J/K

Lookin great man!


so is the canadian dudes avatar, just spins to fast.

marqaq_: set it to show a new layer every .2 seconds, not .1 (if you actaully made it)

 

[MadModMike]

Update. Refer to 1st post for changes.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[MadModMike]

Update. Refer to 1st post for changes.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[MadModMike]

bump ehehhehe.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[ShortyNumber45]

Nice one Mike I liked it.....I liked it......I really liked it a lot..... I'm totally agreed with you that lesser cache is better in gaming...



So MODS what are you waiting for..............Make this a STICKY

 

[MadModMike]

Nice one Mike I liked it.....I liked it......I really liked it a lot..... I'm totally agreed with you that lesser cache is better in gaming...



So MODS what are you waiting for..............Make this a STICKY

It's more fun to constantly bump .

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[MadModMike]

We gots da update! Refer to first post for zee changes.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[MadModMike]

Update. Refer to 1st post for changes.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[tridart]

aight like many others before me - this is THE sh*t! Great job M3! Total ownage hahah.

btw..im gettin a new rig. bt have trouble choosin the processor. basically im on a tight budget. in regards to lesser cache being better, im considering either a 3200+ or 3500+. The price gap aint nothin big, itz rather fractional. Not intending to overclock. I'd b doing some graphics work (photoshop, flash animation etc), plenty of 3d design & abit of animation (poser, 3dsmax, blender, maya etc), AND loads of gaming. Sounds like i need the fx60 :lol: If only money grew on my meat

Bt then again, do u recommend the bigger 1mb cached 3700+ when the element of graphic design is also a factor? I'v also noticed u either use 3200 or 3700 as reference/recommendation, leaving the in-between 3500. Tht leads me to think of the 3500+ as an outcast? :|

 

[MadModMike]

aight like many others before me - this is THE sh*t! Great job M3! Total ownage hahah.

btw..im gettin a new rig. bt have trouble choosin the processor. basically im on a tight budget. in regards to lesser cache being better, im considering either a 3200+ or 3500+. The price gap aint nothin big, itz rather fractional. Not intending to overclock. I'd b doing some graphics work (photoshop, flash animation etc), plenty of 3d design & abit of animation (poser, 3dsmax, blender, maya etc), AND loads of gaming. Sounds like i need the fx60 :lol: If only money grew on my meat

Bt then again, do u recommend the bigger 1mb cached 3700+ when the element of graphic design is also a factor? I'v also noticed u either use 3200 or 3700 as reference/recommendation, leaving the in-between 3500. Tht leads me to think of the 3500+ as an outcast? :|

For the programs you're noting on, you look like you're going to do a bit of Multi-Tasking and use applications that are Multi-Threaded, so I would recommend the AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Dual-Core, it's basically 2 3200+'s and it's reasonably priced.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

Mike, this is a very well written document. Thanks for taking the time to develop this resource that is of professional, encyclopedia-like, quality.

 

[iterations]

Indeed, this is well done.

 

[ches111]

I did at FIRST agree with this thread as it was presented in a non-biased manner. It has moved far from that after many updates to the first post.

Re-reading the first post after the last few updates has changed my opinion of this thread. It is now a very biased piece that needs review by the originator if he TRULY intends to shed light on his topic. The references on AM2 and Conroe are nothing more than speculation on his part.

Mike if you want credibility in any forum then providing facts that support your statements greatly helps. When you first released this I actually agreed with your content (but then again who am I). Problem is it has quickly turned into a platform for you to PREACH AMD.

I guess what I am saying is that if your facts remain unbiased, when you suggest AMD because of the X reasons then it would make a whole lot of sense. It is then based on factual information and not a rant.

Just so you know I agree, that in the current gen of procs the X2/Opterons can not be beaten. But the future remains to be seen and maybe the Conroe will make strides maybe not. Maybe AM2 will make strides as well. Maybe not.

 

[ches111]

Also,

For this to be the Ultimate Guide it would have to accurately reflect the capabilities of the Hardware that is reviewed.

Speaking of review.... Is this information compiled from reviewing the hardware or reviewing an AMD site?

Are your suggestions for hardware based upon actually having used the equipment? Or does it reflect your reading these and other forums?

Just curious as to where this Ultimate Information is coming from....

Also could you post your credentials? Who am I/We receiving this information from? A college grad? A chip designer? A guy on the street? A guy with 10+ years of hardcore usage of each of these types of hardware?

I think I would be more likely to read the THG CPU charts and gather my information from people who have the JOB to review hardware (actual hardware that they have had in house). From people who have provided a Baseline of testing for which they then can discern actual changes in performance based upon the repeatable testing characteristics.

YOU WANT THE ULTIMATE GUIDE TO CPU HARDWARE STAY RIGHT HERE AND REVIEW THE CPU CHARTS YOURSELF. They still may not be perfect but they will give you an UNBIASED testing environment with a Known Baseline.

 

[tridart]

having read the post for the first time, i can honestly say i did not spot any particular pro-amd or pro-intel statement. he shed light on all aspects equally & mostly in a neutral manner. i mean hey..itz gd tht first-time readers wont get any "x-is-better-than-y" idea right? rather itz for them to draw a conclusion frm the whole analysis. i dont think mike wants to feed others. n personally i find both intel n amd r gd, bt since iv used intel, i would try amd. itz somethin new. mayb i'd get an intel nxt time. pros n cons r everywhere in everything.

thx mike. i'v given it a thot..it seems like i multitask alot bt it nvr crossed my mind. i'd save up abit more for a dual core then.

 

[MadModMike]

having read the post for the first time, i can honestly say i did not spot any particular pro-amd or pro-intel statement. he shed light on all aspects equally & mostly in a neutral manner. i mean hey..itz gd tht first-time readers wont get any "x-is-better-than-y" idea right? rather itz for them to draw a conclusion frm the whole analysis. i dont think mike wants to feed others. n personally i find both intel n amd r gd, bt since iv used intel, i would try amd. itz somethin new. mayb i'd get an intel nxt time. pros n cons r everywhere in everything.

thx mike. i'v given it a thot..it seems like i multitask alot bt it nvr crossed my mind. i'd save up abit more for a dual core then.

Don't mind Ches, I think he's either PMSing or is Jealous that my Guide pwns him . (hehehehe, my juvenileness coming out ).

Yea, Dual-Core will be the best bet for you, that 3800+ X2 Dual-Core will suit you just fine, the one I have is pretty darned snappy.

@Ches: I've had a chance to use quite a bit of hardware in my life, but by no means have I used ALL hardware, but as you'll notice, I have not said specific hardware, the only specifics I have noted on are CPU's, in which I have used so many it becomes mind boggling really...Most of my information is taken from a general concensous from myself, my friends, colleagues, work associates, past teachers, and from the communities of Forums and abroad the Internet, but by no means am I making anything up or putting my Opinion on this, but if you could please point out specific parts in the thread where I was BIASED, I will be happy to accomodate you.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[bourgeoisdude]

First read today Mike. Maybe the mods are waiting for my approval...being as I'm so cool and stuff (kidding of course)...so MODS, MAKE IT STICKEY.

Anyway, just a couple of things. Maybe it has been brought up before, sorry I did not desire to read the other 8 pages of comments--but you recommended a S939 CPU, and not a 754 CPU. Granted I see the point you have with it, as Athlon 64's are best on the s939 and therefore the S939 has the best Athlon64 CPU but...well if not on the stickey, what S754 CPU would you say is best bang for the buck?

Thing 2: I have a Socket A mobo that died recently, and am looking to find a S462 mobo to fit that still working Athlon XP 2600+ CPU and 512MB PC2100 RAM. Got a PSU and system case as well as an old GeForce 4 4200Ti AGP card, so why not have an extra system just for kicks?

Point: Socket 462/A systems are still being made, therefore IMO they might need at least brief mention in the article. New Northwood CPU core's also being sold (though not for long) in mfr. systems, and could use some other mention.

OK I lied. Thing 3: Consider adding the number to the Opteron chart (e.g., Opti 165 2.0GHz...or is it 2.2GHz? Well this is exactly why the numbers might help lol) as most ads and online stores advertise the numbers then show the GHz in the cluttered specs. section.

Thanks for reading, you have a long post so I understand if you do not put any of my suggestions into action. Heck, you cannot detail everything about every processor on this one thread--that'd be a book!

 

[MadModMike]

First read today Mike. Maybe the mods are waiting for my approval...being as I'm so cool and stuff (kidding of course)...so MODS, MAKE IT STICKEY.

Anyway, just a couple of things. Maybe it has been brought up before, sorry I did not desire to read the other 8 pages of comments--but you recommended a S939 CPU, and not a 754 CPU. Granted I see the point you have with it, as Athlon 64's are best on the s939 and therefore the S939 has the best Athlon64 CPU but...well if not on the stickey, what S754 CPU would you say is best bang for the buck?

Thing 2: I have a Socket A mobo that died recently, and am looking to find a S462 mobo to fit that still working Athlon XP 2600+ CPU and 512MB PC2100 RAM. Got a PSU and system case as well as an old GeForce 4 4200Ti AGP card, so why not have an extra system just for kicks?

Point: Socket 462/A systems are still being made, therefore IMO they might need at least brief mention in the article. New Northwood CPU core's also being sold (though not for long) in mfr. systems, and could use some other mention.

OK I lied. Thing 3: Consider adding the number to the Opteron chart (e.g., Opti 165 2.0GHz...or is it 2.2GHz? Well this is exactly why the numbers might help lol) as most ads and online stores advertise the numbers then show the GHz in the cluttered specs. section.

Thanks for reading, you have a long post so I understand if you do not put any of my suggestions into action. Heck, you cannot detail everything about every processor on this one thread--that'd be a book!

Great points, thanks for the tips. To answer your questions:

1. The best Bang-For-Buck s754 CPU is: 3000+ Venice - It's $120, uses the newest Venice Core, 90nm, and will overclock very nicely

2. Best sA board: Deez Wun! - That's about the best sA you can buy today for reasonable price

3. I will make an update in a little while, I have some things to take care of first but rest assure some more great info shall be added!

BTW: I did write a book, it hasn't gotten published (never tried) and only a select few friends have read it. It's titled "My 2 Cents" and covers mostly my Life and gives Advice.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[bourgeoisdude]

Excerpt:
2. Best sA board: Deez Wun! - That's about the best sA you can buy today for reasonable price

OK I learned something. I thought Socket A only had up to 333MHz FSB systems--where have I been? Anyways, don't put info this old in the thread, but...my Athlon 2600+ is 266MHz FSB...that board wouldn't work. Again 266FSB is too old to mention on your "stickey-to-be", but just telling you FYI. I'll find a board on newegg that works with that old cpu. There's simply too much of a PC already built to not finish by buying the mobo and putting the ancient parts together.

Funny and interesting side note (a little off topic)--the mobo I had I bought in 2001 supported FSB 200 and 266 processors, as well as SDRAM AND DDR slots. It came with a 700MHz Duron CPU @200FSB. I upgraded to an Athlon 1.2GHz T-bird cpu in 2003. Moved from crappy 256MB PC100 RAM to 512MB PC133 SDRAM.

Finally upgraded from Windows 98SE to Windows 2000. In early 2005, upgraded my GeForce4 MX420 PCI gfx card to GeForce 4 Ti4200 AGP card, and then upgraded to the Antec PSU listed in my sig., replaced SDRAM with 512MB PC2100 RAM, and bought the Athlon 2600+ CPU at the same time. BIG PERFORMANCE JUMP.

I later bought that GeForce 6600 in my sig. and it had some issue with artifacts. I found out it was related to the old chipset on my mobo rather than the card, so I bought the ASROCK board, the ram, and the cpu listed in my sig. so I could move later to a PCI-express video card in the future. My new rig is here.

So I have a new case with a 430Watt Antec Neo PSU running my old system board, memory, and video card--and it goes out. Story of my life.

I look back now and realize--OMFG, that old sucky ECS K7S5A mobo lasted me 5 and a half years!!! Look at what I was able to go to from practically nothing--I had a PCI video card a Duron 700MHz CPU with PC100 SDRAM, and on the same platform was able to go to an Athlon XP 2600+ with a GeForce 4200Ti and 512MB PC2100 RAM. Socket A, in retrospect, was arguably the longest-lasting cpu platform ever. What a legacy!

LONG LIVE SOCKET A!

 

[MadModMike]

Major update, check it out, see if anything is wrong or you wish to add your 2 cents to the fray, thanks.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[MadModMike]

I think I just bumped this........... :twisted:

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[RichPLS]

I did at FIRST agree with this thread as it was presented in a non-biased manner. It has moved far from that after many updates to the first post.

Re-reading the first post after the last few updates has changed my opinion of this thread. It is now a very biased piece that needs review by the originator if he TRULY intends to shed light on his topic. The references on AM2 and Conroe are nothing more than speculation on his part.

Mike if you want credibility in any forum then providing facts that support your statements greatly helps. When you first released this I actually agreed with your content (but then again who am I). Problem is it has quickly turned into a platform for you to PREACH AMD.

I guess what I am saying is that if your facts remain unbiased, when you suggest AMD because of the X reasons then it would make a whole lot of sense. It is then based on factual information and not a rant.

Just so you know I agree, that in the current gen of procs the X2/Opterons can not be beaten. But the future remains to be seen and maybe the Conroe will make strides maybe not. Maybe AM2 will make strides as well. Maybe not.

Very well put... and warranted.

 

[MadModMike]

I did at FIRST agree with this thread as it was presented in a non-biased manner. It has moved far from that after many updates to the first post.

Re-reading the first post after the last few updates has changed my opinion of this thread. It is now a very biased piece that needs review by the originator if he TRULY intends to shed light on his topic. The references on AM2 and Conroe are nothing more than speculation on his part.

Mike if you want credibility in any forum then providing facts that support your statements greatly helps. When you first released this I actually agreed with your content (but then again who am I). Problem is it has quickly turned into a platform for you to PREACH AMD.

I guess what I am saying is that if your facts remain unbiased, when you suggest AMD because of the X reasons then it would make a whole lot of sense. It is then based on factual information and not a rant.

Just so you know I agree, that in the current gen of procs the X2/Opterons can not be beaten. But the future remains to be seen and maybe the Conroe will make strides maybe not. Maybe AM2 will make strides as well. Maybe not.

Very well put... and warranted.

eh? As I said, show me where I was biased, because until I see it, there is no "warrantation" and that wasn't "well put". I saw another person either a) jealous (not sure why) or b) mad at me because he doesn't agree with what I say. I challenge you and every single Forum goer to find my BIASism in there, because I truly cannot find it.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

 

[RichPLS]

VI. Conroe Processors [Sockets: 775]:

The Next Generation for Desktop CPU's from Intel is the "Conroe". "Conroe" will sport DDR2, and FSB's ranging from 800MHz, 1066MHz, and 1333MHz for the Extreme Edition. Clock Speeds from 2.4GHz up to 3.33GHz in the Extreme Edition (Provided Intel can make it, which seems highly doubtful). The main difference between Conroe and past Pentium 4's, is Conroe has a 14-Stage Pipeline, SSE4 Instructions (Maybe), and a 4-Issue Core vs. 3-Issue in past CPU's. Conroe is all 65nm and 45nm in the future. The Unified L2 Cache of Conroe is causing it's Real-World performance to diminish, severely. Programs and Applications can and will compete for Cache Area and thus cause lots of problems for Conroe in Server Environments and Heavy Multi-Tasking environments.

Current Conroe offerings (Not yet released):

Short and sweet, yet highly doubtful?!? Hmmm....

XII. AM2 Processors [Sockets: 940]:

The next Athlon 64 CPU's will be on Socket AM2, which as 940 pins. One thing to note is that AM2 is not pin compatible w/ Opteron 64 940 CPU's. Socket AM2 will use DDR2 and bring 65nm CPU's. AM2 will also incorporate a new technology called Z-RAM and others, which will increase the size of the Cache to enormous amounts, keep Segregated Cache (which keeps away Cache Thrashing, Competition, etc.) and SGoI, which will bring 40% increase in performance for AM2 and offer up to 4GHz Operation. Current Socket AM2 offerings (Not available yet):

WooHoo!!! Are you sure a 40% improvement going to AM2 from 939 at same clockspeed?!? And surely AMD is going past 4GHz on AM2?!? When, this year, or early next?
AMD's AM2 then it seems from this will wipe Conroe's A$$ in the dirt and is sure going to put a wet blanket on Conroe's launch, since AM2 will launch first with blazing performance making sense that Conroe will cost half as much to purchase. :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[MadModMike]

VI. Conroe Processors [Sockets: 775]:

The Next Generation for Desktop CPU's from Intel is the "Conroe". "Conroe" will sport DDR2, and FSB's ranging from 800MHz, 1066MHz, and 1333MHz for the Extreme Edition. Clock Speeds from 2.4GHz up to 3.33GHz in the Extreme Edition (Provided Intel can make it, which seems highly doubtful). The main difference between Conroe and past Pentium 4's, is Conroe has a 14-Stage Pipeline, SSE4 Instructions (Maybe), and a 4-Issue Core vs. 3-Issue in past CPU's. Conroe is all 65nm and 45nm in the future. The Unified L2 Cache of Conroe is causing it's Real-World performance to diminish, severely. Programs and Applications can and will compete for Cache Area and thus cause lots of problems for Conroe in Server Environments and Heavy Multi-Tasking environments.


Current Conroe offerings (Not yet released):

Short and sweet, yet highly doubtful?!?

XII. AM2 Processors [Sockets: 940]:

The next Athlon 64 CPU's will be on Socket AM2, which as 940 pins. One thing to note is that AM2 is not pin compatible w/ Opteron 64 940 CPU's. Socket AM2 will use DDR2 and bring 65nm CPU's. AM2 will also incorporate a new technology called Z-RAM and others, which will increase the size of the Cache to enormous amounts, keep Segregated Cache (which keeps away Cache Thrashing, Competition, etc.) and SGoI, which will bring 40% increase in performance for AM2 and offer up to 4GHz Operation. Current Socket AM2 offerings (Not available yet):

WooHoo!!! Are you sure a 40% improvement going to AM2 from 939 at same clockspeed?!? And surely AMD is going past 4GHz on AM2?!? When, this year, or early next?

1. It does seem highly doubtful, given the architecture and cost

2. Look at Strained Silicon, it allows FX's to overclock to insane speeds such as 4GHz with a Clawhammer 130nm FX-55

Anything else?

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time