Question Thermal Throttle 11700k at base clock 3.6ghz

[HoopD]

I have been struggling to get my cpu temps for my 11700k anywhere near acceptable and hoping someone can help.

System:

Mobo: MSI Z590 Gaming carbon wifi
CPU: Intel 11700k
GPU: MSI RTX 3090 Gaming X Trio
Cooler: MSI Mag 240 AIO
Ram: Klevv 32gb 3600 currently running at 2600 as I cannot run full speed due to temps
PSU: Corsair RM850

3 Intake fans front of case and 3 exhaust fans (2 for AIO top of case) and 1 to the rear.

Under load for example running warzone at max graphics my cpu temps are hitting 90-100 degrees but gpu miles behind comfortably at 70.

I had to turn off Intel boost and XRP for the ram as temps were exceeding 100 degrees.

I have checked the AIO pump is spinning in bios and all seems fine and have today re-applied thermal paste but coverage was previously fine.

Recently tried using the benchmark in intel XTU and immediately hitting 100 degrees at 3.6 ghz and thermal throttling.

No idea where to look next but any advice would be appreciated.

 

[sizzling]

A 240mm AIO may be a little weak, they are generally no better than an average air cooler. With it setup at the top as an exhaust it is also hindered by using the hot air from the gpu. Any way you can move it to be an intake at the front?

 

[HoopD]

Unfortunately no way to mount on the front due to the awful case design from MSI. All the power button and usb connections for the front of the case are where the top of the radiator would need to sit so you cant fit it in as I tried this already other wise it will be the wrong way up and the pump will be too low which I understand can cause the pump to break.

How much cooling or what alternatives would you advise for this set up? New case and a 360 AIO? Noctua Air cooler or something else?

Thanks.

 

[Zerk2012]

If you look in the forums MSI AIO's are failing a lot.

 

[sizzling]

With a 3090 (huge heat) and a fairly warm cpu I’d first looks at a new case with good airflow and better cooler mounting options.

 

[geofelt]

What is the make/model of your case?

Boot to the bios and tell me what your cpu temperature is.
I would expect it to be around 10-15c. over ambient at idle if the cooler is mounted well and functioning.

Dumb question, was there a mylar protective cover to the mount that was not removed?
There is always the possibility that you have a defective unit.

The msi units seem to have problems because the pump is located in the radiator.
If air bubbles intrude, and there will be some air, that can cause ineffective operation.

I would imagine that under heavy graphics load, your 3090 will generate a lot of hot air that will be used to cool the cpu.

Since you have three front intakes, that should provide suitable airflow to cool both your 3090 and a good tower type air cooler.

Noctua makes some very good air coolers.
Here is their cpu suitability list for the 11700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-11700K-1284

Look at the noctua NH-D15s. The radiator size of the NH-D15s is comparable to the size of your 240 aio.
The cooling capability should b similar, the only difference is where the heat exchange takes place.

1. It will clear ram with tall heat spreaders. Your ram is 36.7mm tall.
NH-D15 clears only low profile ram up to 32mm.

2. The NH-D15s is offset a bit in case your 3090 has an oversized backplate.

Lastly, running speed at 3600 should not generate heat and be a problem. There might be something else going on.

 

[vladakv]

Check again case coolers they intake or exhaust air.
Set fan curves.
In bios set negative offset -0.080V and it should be fine.
I suggest Noctua NH-D15. Idle 30 degrees, max load 74, gaming 55-62.

 

[HoopD]

What is the make/model of your case?

Boot to the bios and tell me what your cpu temperature is.
I would expect it to be around 10-15c. over ambient at idle if the cooler is mounted well and functioning.

Dumb question, was there a mylar protective cover to the mount that was not removed?
There is always the possibility that you have a defective unit.

The msi units seem to have problems because the pump is located in the radiator.
If air bubbles intrude, and there will be some air, that can cause ineffective operation.

I would imagine that under heavy graphics load, your 3090 will generate a lot of hot air that will be used to cool the cpu.

Since you have three front intakes, that should provide suitable airflow to cool both your 3090 and a good tower type air cooler.

Noctua makes some very good air coolers.
Here is their cpu suitability list for the 11700K:
https://ncc.noctua.at/cpus/model/Intel-Core-i7-11700K-1284

Look at the noctua NH-D15s. The radiator size of the NH-D15s is comparable to the size of your 240 aio.
The cooling capability should b similar, the only difference is where the heat exchange takes place.

1. It will clear ram with tall heat spreaders. Your ram is 36.7mm tall.
NH-D15 clears only low profile ram up to 32mm.

2. The NH-D15s is offset a bit in case your 3090 has an oversized backplate.

Lastly, running speed at 3600 should not generate heat and be a problem. There might be something else going on.

CPU temps in bios are currently 52c and I am from the UK so indoor heating is on and indoor temps are no higher than 18c - I can get this down to 42c if I reduce the ram speed from 3333 to 2600 which I am not sure why this happens.

Yes the protective cover was removed haha I already went and checked this a couple of months back. When you say defective unit do you mean CPU or cooler?

I will take a look at the air cooler but considering new case and larger cooler options as well.

 

[HoopD]

Check again case coolers they intake or exhaust air.
Set fan curves.
In bios set negative offset -0.080V and it should be fine.
I suggest Noctua NH-D15. Idle 30 degrees, max load 74, gaming 55-62.

Fan curves were set on day one and the fans are definitely as described in the original post ( I have been trying to resolve this for several months)

I have been trying to understand the negative offset stuff but do not get it at all. Which area should I reduce this in within the MSI bios as lots of things you can change.

 

[vladakv]

Fan curves were set on day one and the fans are definitely as described in the original post ( I have been trying to resolve this for several months)

I have been trying to understand the negative offset stuff but do not get it at all. Which area should I reduce this in within the MSI bios as lots of things you can change.

https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?attachments/bios-voltages-sa-io-png.148952/

On the picture, you'll see option 'CPU CORE/GT VOLTAGE MODE, press enter and select OFFSET MODE. Under that, you'll see option to choose positive or negative offset. Pick negative (should be at deafult), and should be under that option for negative offset value. Type 0.080V and hit enter. Save settings on bios and restart. That's it.
If it is confusing - send the pictures and we will go step by step.

 

[vladakv]

But still, this will drop temps for 5-8 degrees and voltages for 0.5V. I think you seriously should consider cooler replacement or repair.

 

[HoopD]

But still, this will drop temps for 5-8 degrees and voltages for 0.5V. I think you seriously should consider cooler replacement or repair.

Will give the Offset a try and I am in process of ordering a larger case and a 360 AIO as well. Think the Mag cooler is not operating properly as suggested.

 

[HoopD]

Thanks Vladakv, that worked well and idle and load temps are now sensible so the rig is now usable. Idle around 44 degrees and under load about 75 degrees but the hardware is massively under performing due do reduced ram speeds, intel boost turned off and only clocking 3.6ghz from 11700k.

So I am going to order a larger case today with a temporary larger AIO and look to build a full custom water loop in the near future, If anyone has recommendations on that it would also be appreciated.

Thanks for all your inputs everyone.

 

[geofelt]

First fix the issue as to why XMP does not let you run at 3600 speed.
Are both sticks from the same single 2 x 16gb kit?
Ram must be matched for proper operation.
Reset all the bios to stock settings.
Select your 3600 speed via xmp.
Is your motherboard bios current?
Often bios updates include updates for ram control.

Look into gear 1/2 settings.

CPU heat should not be influenced by ram speeds.
Added cooling is just a fix to an underlying problem.

11700K is not an overly hot processor that needs 360 aio class cooling unless you are overclocking.

 

[HoopD]

Xmp does let me run at 3600 when selected but it makes the whole system unstable and about 20 degrees hotter.

yes both sticks were purchased together and purchased as a 32gb set and identical.

bios is the most recent version and was updated recently.

I have read in posts on this forum that the memory controller is in the cpu so running xmp would cause a rise in cpu temp.

I agree that I believe there is another problem that I have a feeling is the msi mag cooler based on other reports.
I would like the option to overclock but getting temps under control initially is the starting point.
I would like the option to overclock but getting temps under control initially is the starting point.

May I ask what you mean by gears 1 and 2?

thanks

 

[geofelt]

Here is an article on gear 1/2:

DDR4 on Rocket Lake-S, Gear 1 and Gear 2 Mode Settings | ITIGIC

Intel Gen 11 desktop CPUs include changes to the integrated memory controller. That is why we have decided to make this article, where you can know at what speeds you have to place the BMI values of Rocket Lake-S for Gear 1 and Gear 2 modes for DDR4. In order to get the most out

itigic.com

I suspect that the default will be gear 1.
You could try gear 2.

 

[vladakv]

Thanks Vladakv, that worked well and idle and load temps are now sensible so the rig is now usable. Idle around 44 degrees and under load about 75 degrees but the hardware is massively under performing due do reduced ram speeds, intel boost turned off and only clocking 3.6ghz from 11700k.

So I am going to order a larger case today with a temporary larger AIO and look to build a full custom water loop in the near future, If anyone has recommendations on that it would also be appreciated.

Thanks for all your inputs everyone.

Good to hear that. This is just temporary solution.