This Tablet Was Built for Making a Hackintosh

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]We are not talk about a Sony product in this regard. Besides to argue that Apple is using basically the same parts as a generic PC is akin to saying Sony , Maingear, Alienware, Falcon etc... do too. But they get away with charging $2000 for a PC that Dell makes for $1200. Besides Where can you buy a motherboard used by apple thats sold by New egg? Where can you find a case of the exact same? these are all custom made and designed by Apple. Yes the use chip sets, Processors, Ram, and Video cards like the PC's do. But none of the boutiqe type PC makers are truely different from the Dell's and HP's or what you may have put together yourself at 1/3 of the cost.[/citation]
Fair play a case is custom but does nothing but add to looks, functionality is zero and there are plenty of cases available that look better than Apple. Motherboards are the same except for the customised bios/efi whose sole purpose is not performance increasing, but rather to enforce usage of OSX - which, by the way, doesn't work.

The above tablet is just an example, it is a brick and ugly as hell, but it is a caase in point to prove that it can be done and for that we salute you.
[citation][nom]Travis Beane[/nom]Does it use a 1.8" or 2.5" HDD?[/citation]
We may very well find that the crop of tablets dont have FRU's for drives, so they dont have to have form-factored casings, to cut down on width. Maybe only RAM will be FRU's, but even then dont expect many options in the first couple of generations.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Fair play a case is custom but does nothing but add to looks, functionality is zero and there are plenty of cases available that look better than Apple. Motherboards are the same except for the customised bios/efi whose sole purpose is not performance increasing, but rather to enforce usage of OSX - which, by the way, doesn't work.The above tablet is just an example, it is a brick and ugly as hell, but it is a caase in point to prove that it can be done and for that we salute you.
We may very well find that the crop of tablets dont have FRU's for drives, so they dont have to have form-factored casings, to cut down on width. Maybe only RAM will be FRU's, but even then dont expect many options in the first couple of generations.[/citation]

What you state is merely oppinion, nothing factucual.
The point is that Apple is truely unique regarding the overall design of the product when compaired to a generic Windows PC or a botique PC for that matter.


 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]What you state is merely oppinion, nothing factucual.The point is that Apple is truely unique regarding the overall design of the product when compaired to a generic Windows PC or a botique PC for that matter.[/citation]
Unique design from a strictly looks point of view of course, just so we understand that looks are totally subjective and cant be benchmarked. That way people get to say "well I like it even if you dont" and therefore opinion also.
as far as using the same hardware apart from a restrictive EFI that is pure fact.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Unique design from a strictly looks point of view of course, just so we understand that looks are totally subjective and cant be benchmarked. That way people get to say "well I like it even if you dont" and therefore opinion also.as far as using the same hardware apart from a restrictive EFI that is pure fact.[/citation]
Negative!!....Apple used EFI because it does basic hardware initialization and selects which operating system to use. Had nothing to do with preventing OSX being used on generic PC hardware.
Before Apple switched to EFI Open firmware witch for all intents and purposes does the samething as EFI and programing for EFI was easy vs reprograming for BIOS.
 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]Negative!!....Apple used EFI because it does basic hardware initialization and selects which operating system to use. Had nothing to do with preventing OSX being used on generic PC hardware. Before Apple switched to EFI Open firmware witch for all intents and purposes does the samething as EFI and programing for EFI was easy vs reprograming for BIOS.[/citation]
Well, EFI, BIOS or whatever, Apple has placed a barrier to using OSX on hardware other than Apples own. Which, by the way, still doesn't stop people doing it themselves, it only stops People selling it pre-done. just like Pststar. No one likes getting sued.
So what are the 2 reasons people use Macs?
1) They like the OS
2) They like the design
Design is subjective and now OS can go anywhere if you put in a bit of effort.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Well, EFI, BIOS or whatever, Apple has placed a barrier to using OSX on hardware other than Apples own. Which, by the way, still doesn't stop people doing it themselves, it only stops People selling it pre-done. just like Pststar. No one likes getting sued.So what are the 2 reasons people use Macs?1) They like the OS2) They like the designDesign is subjective and now OS can go anywhere if you put in a bit of effort.[/citation]


Dont foreget:
Stability
for the most part virus free (no self installing, self replicating viruses)
Ease of use
reliability

 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]Dont foreget:Stabilityfor the most part virus free (no self installing, self replicating viruses)Ease of usereliability[/citation]
So if I buy the same parts, same OS, but put it together myself, even if I happen to be a qualified hardware engineer, somehow I will have an inherantly less capable system?
That is bull, like some dud earning buck-fifty an hour in Malaysia on a production line can do a better job than me when I put a few hours in.
I would suggest to anyone who wants to use a Mac, build it yourself. The only people likely to have problems are the same people who would reply to Nigerian Bank emails.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]So if I buy the same parts, same OS, but put it together myself, even if I happen to be a qualified hardware engineer, somehow I will have an inherantly less capable system?That is bull, like some dud earning buck-fifty an hour in Malaysia on a production line can do a better job than me when I put a few hours in.I would suggest to anyone who wants to use a Mac, build it yourself. The only people likely to have problems are the same people who would reply to Nigerian Bank emails.[/citation]

Manufacturing the Computer wether PC or Mac is not the main isse. Im talking about the OS it self, Period!!Windows is buggy, unstable pos. Agree or not, You get what you pay for!

 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]Manufacturing the Computer wether PC or Mac is not the main isse. Im talking about the OS it self, Period!!Windows is buggy, unstable pos. Agree or not, You get what you pay for![/citation]
I do believe I said that making a computer that has the same parts as a Mac, then installing OSX on it. So we are not talking Windows. Neither is this article.
 

tu_illegalamigo

Distinguished
Jul 26, 2010
147
0
18,690
1
"Manufacturing the Computer wether PC or Mac is not the main isse. Im talking about the OS it self, Period!!Windows is buggy, unstable pos. Agree or not, You get what you pay for!"

I know plenty of people who would disagree with this statement. If windows was as horrible as everyone seems to think, why would people not switch? People don`t use ZIP disks anymore because they were unreliable and unstable, plus now they`re obsolete. Businesses are not going to sit here and go "well, Windows is a piece of crap, let`s keep buying it." That would be unprofessional, and I seriously doubt that the people making IT decisions at fortune 500 companies are idiots. Not to say they`re always right, but in this case, slamming windows to look cool will not get you far. Before anyone asks, I use all three systems, so no bias in this response.
 

neiroatopelcc

Distinguished
Oct 3, 2006
3,079
0
20,810
9
Windows is buggy to some extend. Largely because it is as flexible as it is. If windows was tailored to work only on specific hardware it could possibly be made much more stable than it is. But the cost would be, that most people can't use it, and that it isn't flexible to ever accomodate those users. Therefore it would be a worse choice. Microsoft seem to have much more skilled programmers at their disposal, so if they'd be making the same product, chances are they'd be superior at it. They are however not.
Because windows can run on a variety of hardware configurations, with a wide selection of software and custom hardware, it is bound to be subject to more faulty software than the alternatives. That combied with a much wider focus on this product range in comparison to the alternatives does generate a bigger list of bugs.

It doesn't make it a worse choice though. You could tailor a linux to perform the same things you do on a windows server, but it'd cost more manpower, and in some cases be impossible to plan and maintain. You could make an osx play games, but at lower graphics quality and with less games at their disposal. You could do so much, but in the end it's generally much easier to do on windows. Flexibility comes at a cost though, and it's not the license fee.
 

randomizer

Champion
Moderator

Windows is not that flexible. It has a fit whenever you change the hardware without "preparing" the system first (like removing old drivers). Don't try switching between IDE and AHCI either, unless you've done some stupid registry hack that shouldn't be necessary (really, why is it necessary when Windows obviously supports switching between the two to some extent?).
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]I do believe I said that making a computer that has the same parts as a Mac, then installing OSX on it. So we are not talking Windows. Neither is this article.[/citation]
Thats the problem....you can find the exact same part at any retail store and build yourself a mac.
 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]randomizer[/nom]Windows is not that flexible. It has a fit whenever you change the hardware without "preparing" the system first (like removing old drivers). Don't try switching between IDE and AHCI either, unless you've done some stupid registry hack that shouldn't be necessary (really, why is it necessary when Windows obviously supports switching between the two to some extent?).[/citation]
It's obviously more flexible than OSX though.
Picking apart something that occasionally happens to a vast minority for something that Apple doesn't even do at all is a bit rich.
Plus
It's amazing how many people blame Windows crashes on faulty hardware, that are beyond MS control. If it bluescreens it must be Windows right? Not a drop of blame ever goes the way of RAM or HDD failures and we know that it happens.
If you buy the cheapest, crappest Acme branded hardware and expect to have the Starship Enterprise you will be sadly disappointed, but a few hours of research and a relatively modest cash outlay and you can have a PC that is 100% rock-solid and stable, nary a crash for it's lifetime, and either is faster than the same priced Mac or equally fast for less money - and to top that, with a reasonable effort you can also run OSX on it as well as Windows and Linux.

I think i'm not so much defending Windows as defending modular interoperability of PC hardware vendors that allows such universal personal preference to happen. Windows fans, Apple fans and Linux fans are all welcome, join in, it's a lot of fun.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
"defending modular interoperability of PC hardware vendors"
Harware is pretty much that way now! Software on the other hand is less so!
 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
Thats the problem....you can't find the exact same part at any retail store and build yourself a mac
Well, an X58 mobo with an i7 on it, DDR3 ram, SSDs or HDDs, optical drives, graphics cards and sound cards are all the same.
The only thing left is a case that looks the same.
Obviously an iMac is not possible as its an AIO, but a case that looks like a Mac Pro is availble from hundreds of online vendors and in quite a few retail shops I frequent.
There are even a few dedicated threads on Mac Forums devoted to the subject of PC cases that look like Mac Pro cases.
Some even look better, specifically some of the ones by Antec or Lian-Li
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]Well, an X58 mobo with an i7 on it, DDR3 ram, SSDs or HDDs, optical drives, graphics cards and sound cards are all the same.The only thing left is a case that looks the same.Obviously an iMac is not possible as its an AIO, but a case that looks like a Mac Pro is availble from hundreds of online vendors and in quite a few retail shops I frequent.There are even a few dedicated threads on Mac Forums devoted to the subject of PC cases that look like Mac Pro cases.Some even look better, specifically some of the ones by Antec or Lian-Li[/citation]

The simple fact is "you think its the same mobo" but its not! You can find plenty of cases the "look like a Mac case" but its not!
Anyway as much as people complain about Apple being so closed, why go through all the effort to hack a program used by 5% of the market. On top of that people get mad because the OS only works on a certain hardware.
I remeber when Apple was near death and nobody gave a damn about the company. Hardware, software vendors did make or write for Apple and nobody but a few Hardcore fans supported Apple.
Now everyone is up in arms because they dont catter to everyone just like windows does. Assume no one will like the "closed system" like they don't and complain because other people buy Apple because they have measure of quality and standard above the average PC maker and dont produce products based on a low price point.I'm willing to bet that alot of these so called "value conscious shopper's" have items in their home that have a Generic equal but they chose to buy the more exspensive one for one reason or another.
This Apple bashing and gloating about being able to build a faster, cheaper Apple equivalent is really tiring and simple. But alot turn around and praise Aleinware for charging $3000 for what you and find every part on new egg right down to the Mobo model cheaper. And still no one is crying about that!
Bunch of simpltons!


So now folks on tom's sit around hacking OSX at night while bashing the program on tom's.
 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]So now folks on tom's sit around hacking OSX at night while bashing the program on tom's.[/citation]
Some of those bashers are the same type of people as the Mac fans who bash Windows for the same reason. Ignorance plain and simple of the separation between software & hardware.
People can more easily see the separation with a Windows based PC, but as Aple has their hardware and software intrinsically linked it is much harder to view them objectively apart.
OSX is a great OS and has a deserved place in the computing world, but being forced to use single-source hardware at an outrageous markup is scandelous.
My suggestion to all Apple bashers is to take your super-PC hardware, pop a cheap HDD into it and do what is required to give it the Hackintosh treatment, hell, put Linux on it whilst you are at it and have a triple-boot system.
Then you can be above all these childish, partisan arguements as you use Final Cut Pro before playing Crysis for a bit.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
"OSX is a great OS and has a deserved place in the computing world, but being forced to use single-source hardware at an outrageous markup is scandelous."

Who are you to be outraged over the purchase choices of another? Especially when it has no bearing on you? So what if the software is linked to the hardware....Sony does it with PS3, X bo does it, Nintendo does it....whers the anger in that regard? Besides, im sure you yourself have purchase something that is outragiuosly over priced!



"My suggestion to all Apple bashers is to take your super-PC hardware, pop a cheap HDD into it and do what is required to give it the Hackintosh treatment, hell, put Linux on it whilst you are at it and have a triple-boot system."

Apple is already a triple boot system; theres some intrinsic value for you!!
 

irh_1974

Distinguished
Jan 10, 2010
300
0
18,780
0
[citation][nom]mj4358[/nom]"OSX is a great OS and has a deserved place in the computing world, but being forced to use single-source hardware at an outrageous markup is scandelous."Who are you to be outraged over the purchase choices of another? Especially when it has no bearing on you? So what if the software is linked to the hardware....Sony does it with PS3, X bo does it, Nintendo does it....whers the anger in that regard? Besides, im sure you yourself have purchase something that is outragiuosly over priced!"My suggestion to all Apple bashers is to take your super-PC hardware, pop a cheap HDD into it and do what is required to give it the Hackintosh treatment, hell, put Linux on it whilst you are at it and have a triple-boot system."Apple is already a triple boot system; theres some intrinsic value for you!![/citation]
My outrage is not for the purchase choices of others, but that my purchase choices are affected, earlier comparing Alienware at least the user has a choice of weather to spend silly cash on the hardware. If someone wants to use OSX they no longer have the choice, they are forced to use more expensive hardware. And yes it does affect me because I would like to use OSX ligitimately rather than be forced to hack it to run on cheaper hardware.
And furthermore, Macs with Bootcamp allowing Windows to be installed on their hardware but then not allowing the same to be done in the opposite direction is the height of hypocrisy.
BTW, a Mac is not a console, comparing to a PS3 is not a good analogy, it is supposed to be a computer.
 

mj4358

Distinguished
May 28, 2009
188
0
18,680
0
[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]My outrage is not for the purchase choices of others, but that my purchase choices are affected, earlier comparing Alienware at least the user has a choice of weather to spend silly cash on the hardware. If someone wants to use OSX they no longer have the choice, they are forced to use more expensive hardware. And yes it does affect me because I would like to use OSX ligitimately rather than be forced to hack it to run on cheaper hardware.And furthermore, Macs with Bootcamp allowing Windows to be installed on their hardware but then not allowing the same to be done in the opposite direction is the height of hypocrisy.BTW, a Mac is not a console, comparing to a PS3 is not a good analogy, it is supposed to be a computer.[/citation]

Well to that I say too bad! Apple does not have to catter to what you think is fair. They catter to those who like thier products as a whole. As far as Apple being a hypocrite, that's bull. Thats just you being cheap!
And this garbage about having to Hack OSX so you can use it on your hardware because your sensabilities are offended is just plain silly.
Aso , for all intentse and purposes A console is a computer due to the fact that SOFTWARE runs it! The GAMES are software!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY