Those old record labels

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I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that used to
be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?

Kapp
Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
Decca
Reprise (hendrix)
Rhino
Verve (zappa), not really major.
Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
Vee Jay
Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange and yellow)
Chrysalis (tull)
Epic
Mercury
Apple
Parlaphone
MCA
Columbia
CBS
Sun
Stax
RSO (clapton)

 

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Fantasy, Blue Note, Motown?

Seg-Way?

Cameo, Mercury, King, Atco?

Deutsche Grammophon?



D. Brady wrote:

> I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that used to
> be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>
> Kapp
> Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
> Decca
> Reprise (hendrix)
> Rhino
> Verve (zappa), not really major.
> Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
> Vee Jay
> Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange and yellow)
> Chrysalis (tull)
> Epic
> Mercury
> Apple
> Parlaphone
> MCA
> Columbia
> CBS
> Sun
> Stax
> RSO (clapton)

 

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"D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Wc-dnW28U650uZPfRVn-rw@comcast.com...
> I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that used to
> be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>
> Kapp
> Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
> Decca
> Reprise (hendrix)
> Rhino
> Verve (zappa), not really major.
> Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
> Vee Jay
> Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange and yellow)
> Chrysalis (tull)
> Epic
> Mercury
> Apple
> Parlaphone
> MCA
> Columbia
> CBS
> Sun
> Stax
> RSO (clapton)

Those aren't really *old* record labels; they're middle-aged, dating from
the 1950s and 1960s, and many of them are still active, although owned by
conglomerates now. You want some *old* record labels?

Berliner
Paramount
Challenge
Supertone
OKeh
Odeon
Silvertone
Little Wonder (also the name of a banjo)
Conqueror
Harvard
Oxford
QRS
Grey Gull
Gennett
Perfect
Vocalion
Brunswick (yes, the bowling-ball people)
Banner
Jewel
Oriole
Black Patti
Keen-o-Phone
Melva
Meteor
Climax

Now those are old.

Peace,
Paul

 

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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 19:13:18 GMT, "Paul Stamler"
<pstamlerhell@pobox.com> wrote:

>Those aren't really *old* record labels; they're middle-aged, dating from
>the 1950s and 1960s, and many of them are still active, although owned by
>conglomerates now. You want some *old* record labels?
>
>Berliner
>Paramount
>Challenge
>Supertone
>OKeh
>Odeon
>Silvertone
>Little Wonder (also the name of a banjo)
>Conqueror
>Harvard
>Oxford
>QRS
>Grey Gull
>Gennett
>Perfect
>Vocalion
>Brunswick (yes, the bowling-ball people)
>Banner
>Jewel
>Oriole
>Black Patti
>Keen-o-Phone
>Melva
>Meteor
>Climax
>
>Now those are old. <snip>

You forgot the first label to actually use "electrical"
recording...Marsh, 1925.

dB

 

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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:46:16 -0500, "D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net>
wrote:

>I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that used to
>be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>
>Kapp
>Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles) <snip>

Roulette was a LOT more than Tommy James.

>Decca
>Reprise (hendrix) <snip>

Reprise was Sinatra. Hendrix was small potatoes for them.

>Rhino
>Verve (zappa), not really major. <snip>

Wrong again. Verve was Norman Granz' fabled jazz line in the '50s,
later bought by M-G-M in the early '60s. Zappa was a distribution
deal that M-G-M really didn't want any part of, so they stuck it on
Verve with the other "odd ball" stuff. M-G-M scored a big hit on
Verve with the Getz-Gilberto LP, off of which came a crossover Top 40
hit, "Girl From Ipanema." That session was an object lesson in "close
micing can be TOO much of a good thing sometimes...." Verve was (is)
a major player in jazz...always has been.

Get back to us when you get some education.

 

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D. Brady wrote:
> I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that
used to
> be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>
> Kapp
> Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
> Decca
> Reprise (hendrix)
> Rhino
> Verve (zappa), not really major.
> Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
> Vee Jay
> Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange and yellow)
> Chrysalis (tull)
> Epic
> Mercury
> Apple
> Parlaphone
> MCA
> Columbia
> CBS
> Sun
> Stax
> RSO (clapton)

Buddah Records with many of the "Bubble Gum" hits.

rd

 

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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 02:22:26 -0800, DeserTBoB <desertb@rglobal.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:46:16 -0500, "D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net>
>wrote:
>
>>I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that used to
>>be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>>
>>Kapp
>>Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles) <snip>
>
>Roulette was a LOT more than Tommy James.
>
>>Decca
>>Reprise (hendrix) <snip>
>
>Reprise was Sinatra. Hendrix was small potatoes for them.

Huh??? Rock stars like Hendrix and Neil Young sold *far* more records
for Reprise than old blue eyes ever did.

>Get back to us when you get some education.

Sure...

Al

 

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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:46:16 -0500, "D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net>
wrote:
Sun
>Stax
>RSO (clapton)
>
>
>
etc.


-- A trivia question. Why is the Victor's HMV label picture with
Nipper closely hearing a Berliner gramophone a fictional one (ie. it
couldn't happen in reality as a detail on the picture is missing)?

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

 

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"D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net> wrote in message news:<Wc-dnW28U650uZPfRVn-rw@comcast.com>...
> I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that used to
> be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?

(small voice) Casablanca?
(Running for the exit)

EM

 

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"D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net>
news:Wc-dnW28U650uZPfRVn-rw@comcast.com:

> I was just reminiscing about the many old major record labels that
> used to be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>
> Kapp
> Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
> Decca
> Reprise (hendrix)
> Rhino
> Verve (zappa), not really major.
> Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
> Vee Jay
> Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange and yellow)
> Chrysalis (tull)
> Epic
> Mercury
> Apple
> Parlaphone
> MCA
> Columbia
> CBS
> Sun
> Stax
> RSO (clapton)
>
>
>
>

How about Nonesuch? Haven't they been around for awhile?

david

 

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"play_on" <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qv6711h40g6oq0s4ep8odvusf06148fbpe@4ax.com...

> >>Reprise (hendrix) <snip>
> >
> >Reprise was Sinatra. Hendrix was small potatoes for them.
>
> Huh??? Rock stars like Hendrix and Neil Young sold *far* more records
> for Reprise than old blue eyes ever did.
>
> >Get back to us when you get some education.
>
You might want to read "Exploding" by Stan Cronyn. It's a history of Warner
Brothers records (albeit mostly told from the viewpoint of the executives
and their corporate shenanigans), and has a good deal to say about all of
the other companies Warner bought over the years, including Reprise. Reprise
was around long before Hendrix, and was indeed owned by Frank Sinatra. It
wasn't until Warner bought Sinatra out that rock acts were recorded on
Reprise.

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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"david gourley" <davidg.nospam.news@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95FF8B1217FD1davidgnospamnewsveri@152.3.101.165...

> How about Nonesuch? Haven't they been around for awhile?

Medium. They started in about 1964, give or take a year or two, as a
subsidiary of Elektra.

Peace,
Paul

 

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"Edi Zubovic" <edi.zubovic[rem this]@ri.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news:m7b611pj3q10f4v19o1b8qgg2skioleb32@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 10:46:16 -0500, "D. Brady" <brady.d@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> Sun
>>Stax
>>RSO (clapton)
>>
>>
>>
> etc.
>
>
> -- A trivia question. Why is the Victor's HMV label picture with
> Nipper closely hearing a Berliner gramophone a fictional one (ie. it
> couldn't happen in reality as a detail on the picture is missing)?
>
> Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

The original painting of Nipper which belongs to EMI was hung (and possibly
still does) at the famous Abbey Road Studios, St Johns Wood, NW London,
after which location the Beatles late 60s album is named. I saw it there
around 1974 and this icon is now over a hundred years old (Francis Barraud,
1898).
See http://www.classicrecords.co.uk/guide.htm
The studios are being opened to the public on March 19. See info
http://www.abbeyroad.co.uk/ar_index.php

What sort of detail do you think is missing in the pic?
See British Patent Office's site item
http://www.ukpats.org.uk/tm/notices/markit/issue1/nipper.htm
Jim

 

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>I was just reminiscing about the many old major record >labels that
used to
>be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?


>Kapp
>Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
>Decca
>Reprise (hendrix)
>Rhino
>Verve (zappa), not really major.
>Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
>Vee Jay
>Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange >and yellow)
>Chrysalis (tull)
>Epic
>Mercury
>Apple
>Parlaphone
>MCA
>Columbia
>CBS
>Sun
>Stax
>RSO (clapton)

Chess.

Joe

 

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On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:16:52 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
<jim.greg@ntlworld.com> wrote:
----------------------------8<----------------------
>The original painting of Nipper which belongs to EMI was hung (and possibly
>still does) at the famous Abbey Road Studios, St Johns Wood, NW London,
>after which location the Beatles late 60s album is named. I saw it there
>around 1974 and this icon is now over a hundred years old (Francis Barraud,
>1898).
>See http://www.classicrecords.co.uk/guide.htm
>The studios are being opened to the public on March 19. See info
>http://www.abbeyroad.co.uk/ar_index.php
>
>What sort of detail do you think is missing in the pic?
>See British Patent Office's site item
>http://www.ukpats.org.uk/tm/notices/markit/issue1/nipper.htm
>Jim
>

-- A cranking hand. That Berliner grampophone didn't have any motor
but had to be cranked by hand (about 70 rpm I think) in order to
rotate the turntable. So it has been a direct drive unit <g>. Now, as
no hand that cranks the turntable is painted, Nipper is hearing to
nothing...

We've got here in Rijeka Museum a copy of a Berliner gramophone of
that sort (Design #6?) and it's a little pity they didn't, for
exibition setup purposes, came to an idea to find a
corresponding-sized Nipper statue as that may have been an 3-D
Victrola Logo setup

http://www.muzej-rijeka.hr/carobna-igla/predmeti/gramofon-s-malom-bakrenom.htm

The page is in Croatian only, sorry. It describes the unit and says it
was one of the oldest gramophone found in Croatia till now and it
belonged to the Keglevich family, one of noble and known families at
the time.

{Hey, they say we could now make our own Berliner-like recordings on
an ---lookie!--- CD disc! Oh boy.}
http://www.verycoolthings.com/vct/Neo_getpage.cgi?page=itemtoy.html&itemID=13460&cool


Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

 

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Edi...
What an amazing revelation about a very important missing detail, the
cranking handle.
This is typical of someone uneducated not bothering to include necessary
engineering items as it looks "good enough".
It's like making a bicycle but without pedals!
But at least Berliner's disc reproduction system won over Edison's wax
cylinders which as far as I know could only be acoustic masters. I was once
offered an Edison phonograph for free in 1968, and declined as I had no
storage space in my small studyroom for it and about 30 cylinders in
cardboard containers. What a foolish person I was!
Did you tell EMI who own the HMV logo about this anomaly yet? I bet they
have got some PR excuse to explain it.
Jim

"Edi Zubovic" <edi.zubovic[rem this]@ri.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news😛0o911d7k878vutfuk29787ia57vcjquu1@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 14:16:52 GMT, "Jim Gregory"
> <jim.greg@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> ----------------------------8<----------------------
>>The original painting of Nipper which belongs to EMI was hung (and
>>possibly
>>still does) at the famous Abbey Road Studios, St Johns Wood, NW London,
>>after which location the Beatles late 60s album is named. I saw it there
>>around 1974 and this icon is now over a hundred years old (Francis
>>Barraud,
>>1898).
>>See http://www.classicrecords.co.uk/guide.htm
>>The studios are being opened to the public on March 19. See info
>>http://www.abbeyroad.co.uk/ar_index.php
>>
>>What sort of detail do you think is missing in the pic?
>>See British Patent Office's site item
>>http://www.ukpats.org.uk/tm/notices/markit/issue1/nipper.htm
>>Jim
>>
>
> -- A cranking hand. That Berliner grampophone didn't have any motor
> but had to be cranked by hand (about 70 rpm I think) in order to
> rotate the turntable. So it has been a direct drive unit <g>. Now, as
> no hand that cranks the turntable is painted, Nipper is hearing to
> nothing...
>
> We've got here in Rijeka Museum a copy of a Berliner gramophone of
> that sort (Design #6?) and it's a little pity they didn't, for
> exibition setup purposes, came to an idea to find a
> corresponding-sized Nipper statue as that may have been an 3-D
> Victrola Logo setup
>
> http://www.muzej-rijeka.hr/carobna-igla/predmeti/gramofon-s-malom-bakrenom.htm
>
> The page is in Croatian only, sorry. It describes the unit and says it
> was one of the oldest gramophone found in Croatia till now and it
> belonged to the Keglevich family, one of noble and known families at
> the time.
>
> {Hey, they say we could now make our own Berliner-like recordings on
> an ---lookie!--- CD disc! Oh boy.}
> http://www.verycoolthings.com/vct/Neo_getpage.cgi?page=itemtoy.html&itemID=13460&cool
>
>
> Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

 

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In article <l37Rd.1620$E36.1134@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> jim.greg@ntlworld.com writes:

> What an amazing revelation about a very important missing detail, the
> cranking handle.
> This is typical of someone uneducated not bothering to include necessary
> engineering items as it looks "good enough".
> It's like making a bicycle but without pedals!

Actually, it's about the same as a painting of a bicycle with pedals,
but parked.

Perhaps Nipper had heard his master's voice coming from the horn
before, and was waiting to hear it again as soon as someone cranked
the player. Nobody said he was actually hearing anything at the time
the picture was painted.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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Jim Gregory wrote:

> What an amazing revelation about a very important missing detail, the
> cranking handle.
> This is typical of someone uneducated not bothering to include necessary
> engineering items as it looks "good enough".

Maybe they did it because the dog wouldn't have been willing to turn the
crank.

> It's like making a bicycle but without pedals!

Right, only works for downhill.

> But at least Berliner's disc reproduction system won over Edison's wax
> cylinders which as far as I know could only be acoustic masters. I was once
> offered an Edison phonograph for free in 1968, and declined as I had no
> storage space in my small studyroom for it and about 30 cylinders in
> cardboard containers. What a foolish person I was!

Well, okay, but Scott Dorsey's garage won't fit in your old apartment,
either, so maybe you were right the first time.

> Did you tell EMI who own the HMV logo about this anomaly yet? I bet they
> have got some PR excuse to explain it.

First, you'll have to get them to understand the problem...

BTW, you've been contributing good stuff here. Thanks.

--
ha

 

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"Edi Zubovic" <edi.zubovic[rem this]@ri.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news:m7b611pj3q10f4v19o1b8qgg2skioleb32@4ax.com...
> -- A trivia question. Why is the Victor's HMV label picture with
> Nipper closely hearing a Berliner gramophone a fictional one (ie. it
> couldn't happen in reality as a detail on the picture is missing)?

The gramophone was painted over several times because the artist was
attempting to sell it to different companies. It may well have even been a
cylinder player at one point. The "Dog," as the painting is affectionately
known, has lived in a variety of places over the years. Some friends of mine
actually stole it from the executive offices of the Capitol Tower for a few
days!


--
Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com

 

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In article <Ki8Rd.49531$Th1.42843@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> olh@hyperback.com writes:

> The gramophone was painted over several times because the artist was
> attempting to sell it to different companies. It may well have even been a
> cylinder player at one point. The "Dog," as the painting is affectionately
> known, has lived in a variety of places over the years. Some friends of mine
> actually stole it from the executive offices of the Capitol Tower for a few
> days!

There used to be a much larger than live sized dog-with-horn statue
visible from the road just a few miles from my home here in Virginia.
I never found out who lived there or why he had that statue, but
eventually the house was sold and torn down, and the statue went.

There was also a large one on the roof of a record distributor on the
road coming into Baltimore from Washington.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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Bob
So the hardware in portrait was doctored to fit the potential clients.
Funny how the top brass at HMV never noticed the missing interface! Must
have caused a few red faces when it was later spotted.
When was that heist? Sure it wasn't a copy of the one in London?
We often refer to that logo painting as "Nipper and Trumpet", although its
correct title is "His Master's Voice".
Jim

"Bob Olhsson" <olh@hyperback.com> wrote in message
news:Ki8Rd.49531$Th1.42843@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Edi Zubovic" <edi.zubovic[rem this]@ri.htnet.hr> wrote in message
> news:m7b611pj3q10f4v19o1b8qgg2skioleb32@4ax.com...
>> -- A trivia question. Why is the Victor's HMV label picture with
>> Nipper closely hearing a Berliner gramophone a fictional one (ie. it
>> couldn't happen in reality as a detail on the picture is missing)?
>
> The gramophone was painted over several times because the artist was
> attempting to sell it to different companies. It may well have even been a
> cylinder player at one point. The "Dog," as the painting is affectionately
> known, has lived in a variety of places over the years. Some friends of
> mine
> actually stole it from the executive offices of the Capitol Tower for a
> few
> days!
>
>
> --
> Bob Olhsson Audio Mastery, Nashville TN
> Mastering, Audio for Picture, Mix Evaluation and Quality Control
> Over 40 years making people sound better than they ever imagined!
> 615.385.8051 http://www.hyperback.com
>
>

 

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On 17 Feb 2005 19:19:38 -0800, "Joseph Meditz"
<carbontrebles@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>I was just reminiscing about the many old major record >labels that
>used to
>>be around. Would anybody like to add to the list?
>
>
>>Kapp
>>Roullette (tommy james and the shondelles)
>>Decca
>>Reprise (hendrix)
>>Rhino
>>Verve (zappa), not really major.
>>Atlantic (zep, ray charles)
>>Vee Jay
>>Capitol (remember the old beatles 45's w/their orange >and yellow)
>>Chrysalis (tull)
>>Epic
>>Mercury
>>Apple
>>Parlaphone
>>MCA
>>Columbia
>>CBS
>>Sun
>>Stax
>>RSO (clapton)
>
>Chess.

I guess people have a lot of different definitions of "major". Chess,
Sun, RPM, Atlantic (in the 50s), etc were considered "independents"
and the usually specialized in music and markets that the major labels
ignored, such blues, country, cajun, rock n roll, etc. Mainstream
labels would be like RCA, Mercury, Capitol and Columbia, etc, outfits
that had much deeper pockets for promoting pop records than the
smaller labels did. The only way labels like Sun and Chess could
compete was by recording music that the big labels overlooked.

Al

Al

 

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D. Brady <brady.d@comcast.net> wrote:
> Stax

Hi

--
Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier@poofygoof.com
The United States is the one true country. The US is just. The US
is fair. The US respects its citizens. The US loves you. We have
always been at war against terrorism.

 

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On 17 Feb 2005 20:43:47 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article <l37Rd.1620$E36.1134@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> jim.greg@ntlworld.com writes:
>
>> What an amazing revelation about a very important missing detail, the
>> cranking handle.
>> This is typical of someone uneducated not bothering to include necessary
>> engineering items as it looks "good enough".
>> It's like making a bicycle but without pedals!
>
>Actually, it's about the same as a painting of a bicycle with pedals,
>but parked.
>
>Perhaps Nipper had heard his master's voice coming from the horn
>before, and was waiting to hear it again as soon as someone cranked
>the player. Nobody said he was actually hearing anything at the time
>the picture was painted.

- Well. Here I go again, with my old bad habit to fire without without
aiming.
I have come to a conclusion that Nipper might hear to a Berliner
gramophone at stillstand following reading a book where the very first
Berliner gramophone is described and there were evidently hand-cranked
ie. w/o any motors. There in the book is also a copy of a instruction
manual page where it is described how to turn a crank so the record
would turn at some 70 rpm. This made me construct the conclusion. But
logics without enough facts isn't a quite valid logics at all. So I
had to check further on the Internet; this I should have done before!

And yes, here we go -- this particular Berliner gramophone is an
_improved_ type with a motor. So, the situation where the dog is
hearing to the uncranked Berliner Improved gramophone is a valid one.
This may be seen at the video I came across (click the Quick Time sign
and allow the movie to load partially (the entire movie is abt 4 MB):
http://www.coleccionfb.com/video%207.htm

And yes, as you see, the crank is being turned around by a spring
motor.

I would apologize to Jim Gregory and the others for this. At least now
I'll remember to doublecheck the facts I'm dealing with and you've got
still an another trivia issue about the famous picture.

Oh yes, I feel I'd apologize to the memory of Francis Barraud, the
painter who made the picture.


Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

 

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"Edi Zubovic" <edi.zubovic[rem this]@ri.htnet.hr> wrote in message
news😱e8b11p6cs1d0vm9fue9vqjrhlvu90o8br@4ax.com...

> >Perhaps Nipper had heard his master's voice coming from the horn
> >before, and was waiting to hear it again as soon as someone cranked
> >the player. Nobody said he was actually hearing anything at the time
> >the picture was painted.
>
> - Well. Here I go again, with my old bad habit to fire without without
> aiming.
> I have come to a conclusion that Nipper might hear to a Berliner
> gramophone at stillstand following reading a book where the very first
> Berliner gramophone is described and there were evidently hand-cranked
> ie. w/o any motors. There in the book is also a copy of a instruction
> manual page where it is described how to turn a crank so the record
> would turn at some 70 rpm. This made me construct the conclusion. But
> logics without enough facts isn't a quite valid logics at all. So I
> had to check further on the Internet; this I should have done before!
>
> And yes, here we go -- this particular Berliner gramophone is an
> _improved_ type with a motor. So, the situation where the dog is
> hearing to the uncranked Berliner Improved gramophone is a valid one.
> This may be seen at the video I came across (click the Quick Time sign
> and allow the movie to load partially (the entire movie is abt 4 MB):
> http://www.coleccionfb.com/video%207.htm
>
> And yes, as you see, the crank is being turned around by a spring
> motor.
>
> I would apologize to Jim Gregory and the others for this. At least now
> I'll remember to doublecheck the facts I'm dealing with and you've got
> still an another trivia issue about the famous picture.
>
> Oh yes, I feel I'd apologize to the memory of Francis Barraud, the
> painter who made the picture.

Now that we've established that...is it true that an earlier version of the
painting had a coffin in the corner, presumably containing His Master?

Peace,
Paul