Toshiba 65L9300U: A 4K HDTV With HDMI 2.0 Support

[dimar]

Nah.. by the time 4K blu-ray comes out, there's going to be few model refreshes with nicer features, and worked out bugs. Better wait.

 

[b3roldan]

Purchased the Toshiba Regza 55" 55KL300H in 2012. Experienced the following problems:-
1) Torchlight at the corners
2) Input lag when playing games via HDMI
3) There is a delay caused by picture processing when using HDMI. (even in game mode)
4) The picture settings does not remember "Clearscan" and "Resolution+" settings. I have to change it manually everytime I change my input from TV to PC/Xbox.
5) The response to remote control signal is slow -- at least 2 second delay.

I did call customer support and they sent engineers to my place on 2 occasions, they even brought their own TV to my place to test and I was able to prove the problems existed on both TVs. It was quite a disappointing experience honestly.

The engineers' feedback was basically this:
1) Engineer: The model is really like that. This occurs on all our models.
My Response: If it is slow for all models shouldn't they fix it via a new downloadable firmware update like the US version's 50L5200U? U.S. owners experience the same problem and the update fixed it.
Engineer: They use a different panel and Hong Kong doesn't provide firmware update service

2) Engineer: This is a low-end TV and cannot be compared to high-end samsung/LG TVs, therefore we can't expect it to perform well.
My Response: When I bought the TV, I was told I was buying a high-end special edition 50th anniversary HKD18,990 TV at a very good price of HKD8,990. If I was looking for a low-end TV, I wouldn't have bought this.

3) Engineer: In Hong Kong, these TVs are used for watching TVs and not for playing games, no one uses it to play games. if you want to play games you should use a PC monitor.
My Response: I can name several people i know, both friends and colleagues who plug their TVs to their playstation/xbox. If these TVs were only meant for gaming, why is there a "Game Mode" feature and is stated in your brochure as "designed for gamers to minimize input lag"? As you can see even with "Game Mode" enabled, there is no change in input lag therefore the funciton is not working.

The engineers gave me an impression that they didn't want to fix the problem and kept giving me ridiculous excuses.

It was quite a disapointing experience, seeing that this is my first HDTV and it took me a while to save for it.

Sold it a month later and bought the LG 47LM7600. The LG was perfect, fast response in gaming, great UI, updates every 2 months (at least shows they are doing something). Nice remote too! Everything just works. For anyone looking to purchase in 2014, I recommend LG / Samsung > Panasonic > Sony/Sharp ... I have blacklisted Toshiba.

Added a pile of newlines - SS

Original:

Spoiler

Purchased the Toshiba Regza 55" 55KL300H in 2012. Experienced the following problems:-(1) Torchlight at the corners(2) Input lag when playing games via HDMI(3) There is a delay caused by picture processing when using HDMI. (even in game mode)(4) The picture settings does not remember "Clearscan" and "Resolution+" settings. I have to change it manually everytime I change my input from TV to PC/Xbox.(5) The response to remote control signal is slow -- at least 2 second delay.I did call customer support and they sent engineers to my place on 2 occasions, they even brought their own TV to my place to test and I was able to prove the problems existed on both TVs. It was quite a disappointing experience honestly.The engineers' feedback was basically this.(1) Engineer: The model is really like that. This occurs on all our models. My Response: If it is slow for all models shouldn't they fix it via a new downloadable firmware update like the US version's 50L5200U? U.S. owners experience the same problem and the update fixed it.Engineer: They use a different panel and Hong Kong doesn't provide firmware update service(2) Engineer: This is a low-end TV and cannot be compared to high-end samsung/LG TVs, therefore we can't expect it to perform well.My Response: When I bought the TV, I was told I was buying a high-end special edition 50th anniversary HKD18,990 TV at a very good price of HKD8,990. If I was looking for a low-end TV, I wouldn't have bought this.(3) Engineer: In Hong Kong, these TVs are used for watching TVs and not for playing games, no one uses it to play games. if you want to play games you should use a PC monitor.My Response: I can name several people i know, both friends and colleagues who plug their TVs to their playstation/xbox. If these TVs were only meant for gaming, why is there a "Game Mode" feature and is stated in your brochure as "designed for gamers to minimize input lag"? As you can see even with "Game Mode" enabled, there is no change in input lag therefore the funciton is not working.The engineers gave me an impression that they didn't want to fix the problem and kept giving me ridiculous excuses. It was quite a disapointing experience, seeing that this is my first HDTV and it took me a while to save for it.Sold it a month later and bought the LG 47LM7600. The LG was perfect, fast response in gaming, great UI, updates every 2 months (at least shows they are doing something). Nice remote too! Everything just works. For anyone looking to purchase in 2014, I recommend LG / Samsung > Panasonic > Sony/Sharp ... I have blacklisted Toshiba.

 

[Doug Lord]

PLEASE paste this $h1t all over Cnet to refute their BS "4K is Stupid" shtick. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one excited for 4k, h.265, Dolby HDR, 800 nit, 10-bit native video.Now a question. You like the passive glasses for the light output, but the 3D resolution is weak in 1080p. Active glasses have bad lighting but do they also halve the resolution? IE what is better a super bright TV with active glasses or passive glasses?Any news on the Vizio Referance series? If that beast does what they say is does and comes out under $5k - its going to be mind blowing.

 

[MrMusAddict]

So uh, why does Dell charge the same for their 32" US again? This has twice the real estate, and similar (if not better) performance, but costs exactly the same.Anyone?

I'm assuming the pixel density of the Dell monitor out-weighs the cost of real estate (and also, the dell monitor came out first, so they had yet to have any real competition in price).

 

[laststop311]

Ill take my panasonic 65zt60. Paid 3100 for a display model with zero cosmetic defects and zero picture quality issues. Even left me enough for a pretty nice 7.1 surround sound setup Onkyo HT-S5600. For 3650 I have arguably the king of reference tv's and a 600 dollar 7.1 surround that cost 550 for me. I can pretty much guarantee I'm having a better viewing experience with about the same money spent vs this 3500 dollar tv.

 

[ceberle]

PLEASE paste this $h1t all over Cnet to refute their BS "4K is Stupid" shtick. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one excited for 4k, h.265, Dolby HDR, 800 nit, 10-bit native video.Now a question. You like the passive glasses for the light output, but the 3D resolution is weak in 1080p. Active glasses have bad lighting but do they also halve the resolution? IE what is better a super bright TV with active glasses or passive glasses?Any news on the Vizio Referance series? If that beast does what they say is does and comes out under $5k - its going to be mind blowing.

Passive 3D works by rendering each frame's odd and even numbered lines alternately; like the interlaced CRTs of old. That means each frame only shows half the vertical resolution. On a 1080p display, you can see this effect if you sit close enough since only 540 lines are on the screen at any one time. With a 2160p display like this, you'll see 1080 lines in each frame. Remember that there are four times the number of pixels packed into the same screen size. So with a passive system and 4K, you get the best of both worlds - max light output and 1080p resolution in 3D. Plus the glasses are cheaper, lighter, and don't need to be charged or sync to the display.

Active 3D means each frame is rendered at full resolution. It's up to the glasses' shutters to alternately block the right and left eyes in sync with the correct frame. So you get all the resolution but the shutters cut light transmission by as much as 80 percent.

-Christian-

 

[Guest]

PLEASE paste this $h1t all over Cnet to refute their BS "4K is Stupid" shtick. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one excited for 4k, h.265, Dolby HDR, 800 nit, 10-bit native video.Now a question. You like the passive glasses for the light output, but the 3D resolution is weak in 1080p. Active glasses have bad lighting but do they also halve the resolution? IE what is better a super bright TV with active glasses or passive glasses?Any news on the Vizio Referance series? If that beast does what they say is does and comes out under $5k - its going to be mind blowing.

Passive 3D works by rendering each frame's odd and even numbered lines alternately; like the interlaced CRTs of old. That means each frame only shows half the vertical resolution. On a 1080p display, you can see this effect if you sit close enough since only 540 lines are on the screen at any one time. With a 2160p display like this, you'll see 1080 lines in each frame. Remember that there are four times the number of pixels packed into the same screen size. So with a passive system and 4K, you get the best of both worlds - max light output and 1080p resolution in 3D. Plus the glasses are cheaper, lighter, and don't need to be charged or sync to the display.

Active 3D means each frame is rendered at full resolution. It's up to the glasses' shutters to alternately block the right and left eyes in sync with the correct frame. So you get all the resolution but the shutters cut light transmission by as much as 80 percent.

-Christian-

Dear Christian,

Thank you for the article. I found it very informative.
Question: The JVC DLA-RS6710U projector claims "60p 4K signals at 4:2:0 may be input and displayed via HDMI 1.4a connection". Would you elaborate on this statement? What is the difference between 60p and 60Hz?
Side Question: Could you replicate the IMAX 3D HFR (48fps) experience using possible future consumer electronics? Meaning at what frequency [Hz] and resolution per eye [pixels x pixels] does the image resemble that theater experience?

Thank you,
David Girgis

 

[ceberle]

David, the question of 1080p/60 over HDMI is a little confusing because of manufacturer's statements like this. I'll try to explain. HDMI 1.4 WILL support 4k at up to 30 fps. And yes, for this discussion, fps and Hz are the same thing. Fps simply refers to the framerate of the incoming signal and Hz refers to the refresh rate of the display. They have to marry up in some fashion; either by matching rates or by a multiple like 60fps - 120Hz.

As I was saying, HDMI 1.4 WILL support 4k up to 30fps. Beyond that, you'll have to use HDMI 2.0. The newest-gen JVC projectors will accept a 4K 60Hz signal if that signal is 4:2:0 component. That is the encoding of all Blu-ray content BUT, you'll need a player capable of that output. Most players upconvert to at least 4:2:2 but usually 4:4:4 before output, and you can't change that. The only player I know of that can do it is an Oppo in Source Direct Mode. And here's another BUT - Blu-ray content is encoded at either 24fps (film) or 60i (video, in effect 30fps). So any discussion of 4K 60p is moot because the only content encoded that way is on server-based players like Sony's box they sell with their 4K displays.

So to sum up the first answer, you aren't likely to encounter 4K signals at 60p any time soon so HDMI 1.4 will actually work just fine if you have a source that outputs 4K. For now, 4K displays will be upconverting 1080p signals more than anything else.

Question 2 - To perfectly replicate 48fps, the content has to be encoded at that framerate. Blu-ray copies of The Hobbit films are 24fps because 48p is not supported by the vast majority of sources or displays. You can fake it if your display supports frame interpolation. In that case internal processing creates and inserts additional frames to smooth motion and increase resolution. And theoretically, 3D shouldn't be an issue at full resolution and framerate because the framepack method of encoding (already used on all 3D Blu-rays) takes no more storage space or bandwidth than 2D.

So for now, frame interpolation is the only way to recreate the HFR experience in the home. And a display that supports frame interpolation in 3D (a few do) will come pretty close to the theatrical HFR experience; except without the 30-foot tall screen of course!

-Christian-

 

[Guest]

well said.

Yes, I have seen the sony 4k player they sell with their TVs at Fry's and was very impressed. As you know, the thing about a 30-foot screen is a matter of viewing angle, ratio and placement. If you sit close enough to a 4k monitor like the Toshiba, I don't see why you would need a much bigger screen to perceive the same size picture as the IMAX.

I hope the 4k players of tomorrow will support 48 fps 4:4:4 encoding of film. I believe manufacturers have to, at least, start thinking about authentic reproduction of film content because more and more movies are shot digitally eliminating telecine and any kind of pulldown process associated with converting 24 fps film to video. Peter Jackson is shooting on Red Dragon 6k at 48 fps, and future 8k standards will natively support 120 Hz.

This is the reason I am excited about nVidia G-SYNC, where the framerate [fps] of the output is locked to the refresh rate [Hz] of the display. This is variable for games, but locked at one value for movies.

-David