True Surround headset....need help kinda asap!!

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namelessonez

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My Carcharias has seen some mileage and I'm looking to replace them. I'm really keen on getting one of them "true surround" headsets....the ones with multiple speakers/ drivers in each cup. Note: I do not have a dedicated sound card and am using the onboard one....may think of upgrading if it doesn't break the bank!

The following caught my attention (its not limited to this list, but merely indicative as i'm kinda a noob in true surround headsets):
Sennheiser PC 360
Sennheiser PC 333D G4ME
Roccat Kave 5.1
Corsair Vengeance 1500 (I understand this does not have multiple drivers)
Razer Tiamat 7.1 (would prefer to avoid Razer henceforth, but still throwing in the option if its worth buying)

As you can see, the budget is about $160 (stretchable to 200 max). If a separate sound card is a must, I may consider getting one as well.

I understand that the Vengeance 1500 gives true surround headsets a good run for their money, primarily due to the usb dongle thingy and the huge 50mm drivers, that's one more reason I threw it in with the other options.

I'd appreciate any education on the whole 'true surround' v. 'virtual surround' philosophy.

Thanks in advance....oh, and it's kinda urgent, so really appreciate it! :)
 
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C
"In closing, what you're saying is having multiple speakers in a headset is not in any way better than the ones without multiple speakers (sound card aside)."
Yes thats what im saying.
Apart from the PC 360,
other highly ranked headhpones you might want to consider: Creative aurvana Live!, Sennhesier HD598, Skullcandy Slyr...

Oh and btw, if you break the cable on the Sennhesier, you can replace it 😀 (sure on the HD598, and i think also on pc360, but not sure there).

Any of those should be an upgrade voer the previous headphones, but id say the sennheisers are the highest upgrade. Ofc after those there are like still 5 levels of upgrade more 😀. Normall its like this:

under 50$, under 120$ under 300$ under 700$ under 1000$ and "you...
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Thanks for that! I had been through the link already during my research here on Tom's (which was prior to posting this thread). From what I've read up on so far overall, my impression is that separate drivers end up delivering better sound placement. I'm not a fan of speakers and also because I've got to keep the decibel levels low in the house (especially when the kid is asleep!).

I've given virtual surround a go with the Carcharias and felt (on the basis of whatever I've managed to read up so far) the need to graduate to a multi driver set up. My choices on brands are also limited as many brands are very difficult to come buy here in India (turtlebeach, and most of those listed in the link you provided). Sennheiser, Corsair, Razer and maybe Roccat, were the ones which seem readily available without going to the back of beyond.
 
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Isn't that more of a myth with the way things are being developed these days? Tom's reviewed some of them and it seems that the true surround setups seem to outperform the virtual surround ones.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/surround-sound-headset-benchmark,3125-12.html

Here's a review I read of the Corsair 1500:
http://technoholik.com/reviews/music/headphones/review-corsair-vengeance-1500-71-surround-usb-gaming-headset/4357

Here's one of the Sennheiser 363D:
http://www.gadgetreview.com/2013/03/sennheiser-pc-363d-7-1-dolby-gaming-headset-review.html

Here's one of the Razer Tiamat 7.1:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/audio/razer_tiamat_7_1_gaming_headset_review/4

The Roccat one:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/audio/roccat_kave_5_1_headset_review/1

Reading up on these (and such others) is whats prompting me towards a 'true surround' setup.
 
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Which headset are you using? Also, have you tried a set which uses virtual/ software controlled surround? If so, any noticeable difference?

I ask because experience with the two sorts is basically what can help decide. If its a virtual set, then the Corsair one would be my choice as it seems to be the best in the lot as of now....but that remains to be seen! :)
 
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TRUE surround, you linked to multiple VIRTUAL surround headsets. Meaning the surround sound is made through software instead of actual physical speakers.
 
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There cant be true surround in headphones, only marketing and software. The reason for this is rather simple: The drivers are so close to your ears that you wouldnt be able to tell the diffrence from the location of the speaker.
You could however have a good virtual surround based on your overall equipment.
onboard audio is rather poor, so with no upgrade there, your headset is going to get about 60-80% of its real potential.

Also note that if a true 7.1 headset exists, it will have to use its own hardware to create this sound (meaning it will ignore your onboard audio, and everything else). That means, any bug you in that hardware and you are doomed.
 
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The Roccat, Sennheiser and Razer linked are headsets with multiple drivers/ speakers. The Corsair 1500 is the only one without multiple drivers/ speakers. The Tom's article is a mixed bag. A combined reading was what tempted me more towards a set with multiple speakers in it.

Headsets with multiple speakers would deliver 'true' surround sound and not 'virtual' surround sound, unless I'm mistaken??
 
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In that case, the Tiamat has its own hardware....but then the question of bugs skipped me. Useful, thanks!

So what's the verdict: don't get a headset with multiple drivers? In that case, do you have any good recommendations? Getting a soundcard is a possibility I'm willing to consider if it's worth it.

Basically, looking for an "awesome" surround headset is all.
 
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http://www.head-fi.org/t/353025/the-5-1-headphones-myth

The thing is : you cant hear things from behind you "for real" becouse all the sounds are generated next to your ears, and travel a very short distance to your ear to really pinpoint the sound decay that helps you identify a 3D position.

If you have a onboard and a headset already showing its age, id get either the soundcard or the headset first (this way you can get a quality product rather than a okish headset), and then later on go for the other componenet when money allows.

I can tell you that the Sennheiser PC 350/360 is very well considered by many, both in gaming and audiophile comunity.

The previous link i sent you is very good for a simple reason: it explains what are the strong point of each haedphone, not gives you a subjective opinion on "buy this, dont buy that". Thats also why you should take my advice with a grain of salt.

If possible, try to ask to test them in a store. Many stores have nothing against that.

What im trying to say is that from my personal expirience (as well as the opinion of people who know much more than me on the matter), a good "quality" headphone with surround from software is far better than a decent "quality" sound headphone with great surround.

As an example, bass heavy headphones are not too good for surround as any bass sound will partially cover other sounds.
 
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Ok, so since that's not an option, how about something closer to earth, err...my budget....which will serve the purpose? 😀 My existing headset has basically started faulting in that the volume controller has copped it, making volume control nearly impossible. True, I can send it for repairs but I'm keen on moving on to something better. So, any suggestions? I'll get a soundcard a couple of months from now, so let's keep that in mind as well.

Unless you've already suggested the Sennheiser 360.

In closing, what you're saying is having multiple speakers in a headset is not in any way better than the ones without multiple speakers (sound card aside).
 
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"In closing, what you're saying is having multiple speakers in a headset is not in any way better than the ones without multiple speakers (sound card aside)."
Yes thats what im saying.
Apart from the PC 360,
other highly ranked headhpones you might want to consider: Creative aurvana Live!, Sennhesier HD598, Skullcandy Slyr...

Oh and btw, if you break the cable on the Sennhesier, you can replace it 😀 (sure on the HD598, and i think also on pc360, but not sure there).

Any of those should be an upgrade voer the previous headphones, but id say the sennheisers are the highest upgrade. Ofc after those there are like still 5 levels of upgrade more 😀. Normall its like this:

under 50$, under 120$ under 300$ under 700$ under 1000$ and "you oficially went crazy", featuring prices over 20.000 😀.

And as i said, if you can, hear them before you buy them.

EDIT: Ok, maybe in some very expensive headphones with multiple drivers positioning will be significantly better, but we are talking here of prices well over 1000$.
 
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As of a soundcard, i would not try to recommend you anything untill you saved the money.
There is no telling what will be your best bet by then. Prices may change, new hardware may come out, etc.

However, the Creative sound blaster Z is actually considered by audiphiles a downgrade from the X-fi.
Especially the X-fi Titanium (dosent have to be the HD version, it can be the cheaper one, they still have the same processing chip or DAC).

The Asus Xonar DX is considered a great performer for the price, however i recall reading somewhere that the asus cards were a bit specialized, so if you get one that has the gaming features implemented, its not so good for music, and the other way around (Thou i just "think" i read something like that so i might be wrong).

Personally however, i recommend Asus over Creative (at least at this point and their current products).
 
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However, the Creative sound blaster Z is actually considered by audiphiles a downgrade from the X-fi.
Especially the X-fi Titanium (dosent have to be the HD version, it can be the cheaper one, they still have the same processing chip or DAC).
Click to expand...

The Recon3D was a downgrade, the Z is an upgrade. Makes the DX VERY hard to recommend these days. ASUS really needs a product refresh (same with Auzentech and HT Omega).
 
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Thanks for the inputs people, most helpful!
I'm zeroing in on the Sennheizer PC 360. How's the Corsair 1500 though? It's half the price and seems to be a big favourite amongst reviewers.

As for the sound card, I'm putting it on hold till I can muster about $150-$200, guess that should be more than sufficient?
 
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im using CM Sirus, although its been a long time since i used virtual 3d positioning in headsets, i think it is better than having multiple drivers. it's just hard to discern (hope thats the right word).
or it may just be me, but its not easy to hear if someone is sneaking behind me on bf3. or maybe it's the explosions all around that is making it hard.
my advice, try it in person, then decide
 
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Physical surround in headphones and headsets doesn't work as intended. As others have stated, there is limited space and so it limits driver size, thus degrading sound quality. Beyond that, there isn't enough distance between the speakers and your ears to get anything more than basic "that speaker was behind me, that speaker was in front of me" perception. That's not surround sound.

The best surround sound you'll get will be buying a pair of real headphones with large drivers, and using virtual surround software to give you surround-perception.

You said you've already been through mad-lust-envy's link on Head-fi, so you should already have a good idea of what I'm talking about.

I'd also second Cats_Paw's recommendation of an X-fi Titanium soundcard. You'll get the surround software with its suite, and price vs. performance it's one of the best of the bunch. I'd recommend the custom community-made drivers though, not Creative's own.
 
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One thing i forgot to mention and this is actually crucial!
Do not get X-fi Creative soundcard if you are using the Windows Vista OS. There is a BUG in the drivers of Vista that creates random cracking and popoing on those sound cards and this issue has never been solved (only temporarly mitigated).

I had this problem with Windows Vista everytime, never had it with windows 7.
 
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Thanks for all the comments!
I appreciate the theory re: large drivers, which is why I was keen on the Corsair 1500 (apart from the Sennheiser pc360) which has a set of 50mm drivers.
Question: is it better to go with the Corsair 1500 or the Sennheiser? If the sound difference between the two is not marginal, might as well get the Corsair 1500 which is half the price. I'm ready to spend on the pc360, but not merely because its a "Sennheiser".

I face multiple difficulties in trying them out first not only because there's a lack of places which offer such facilities, but primarily because none of those places will have a sound card installed, etc etc. The gimmick here is to hook up a set to a pc with onboard sound, which, as one of you stated, will not deliver the full performance of a quality headset. So I'm gonna have to chance it on that much.

Which is why I'm turning to Tom's.

Bottom line: A good headset without multiple drivers and with 50mm drivers (are there any with more than 50mm? At least I haven't come across any). Next, a good/ decent sound card. How's the Asus Xonar U7 sounding as of now? Worth waiting? Or go with something else?

So here's what I'm gonna burden you good people with: :)
Help decide between the Sennheiser PC360 and the Corsair 1500
Help choosing a soundcard. (I will need to check the compatibility with my mobo though, so some help there as well please)
 
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