[SOLVED] Trying to get the most out of my Ryzen 7 2700x

[NelsonTheSmith]

Hi all,

I've been trying to OC my Ryzen 7 2700x for the last day or so. I've read lots of different things and followed different guides but none of them seem to be working right. PC specs listed below.

I have tried multiple combinations of PBO and Core Boost. When I use those my CPU normally goes to a little over 4Ghz. By tweaking the CPU ratio I have been able to get it stable at around 4.2Ghz. Whenever I launch almost any game though (League of Legends/Fortnite are what I tested) my CPU clocks all lock themselves at 3.78Ghz and do not overclock to anything above that. Even after closing the games the clock rates stay locked at 3.78 until I restart my computer.

Any advice super appreciated. I have seen lots of websites saying that my FPS with this processor should be drastically higher than what I am getting.

I have gotten rid of Ryzen Master as that seemed to cause more issues than it was worth. Everything now has been done through the BIOS.

Specs
CPU: Ryzen 7 2700x
Cooler: Stock Wraith Prism
GPU: MSI 1060 6gb
RAM: Corsair 3000 32GB total running at 2933
MOBO: MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
PSU: 1000W EVGA
Monitor: Dell 2560x1440 @165hz

 

[logainofhades]

Check your temps.

 

[NelsonTheSmith]

Check your temps.

Been watching them. They never go above about 55c from what I've seen. HWiNFO also says there is no thermal throttling going on.

I just ran Userbenchmark after a restart of my PC. Core clocks are at 4,248.8Mhz and core temps peaked at 70.8C. From what I just read this processor should not thermal throttle until 85C. HWiNFO also says there was no thermal throttling.

I'm still only getting about 140 or less frames in LoL, 80-90 in Fortnite, and sub 50 in Apex Legends.

 

[drea.drechsler]

Hi all,

I've been trying to OC my Ryzen 7 2700x for the last day or so. I've read lots of different things and followed different guides but none of them seem to be working right. PC specs listed below.

I have tried multiple combinations of PBO and Core Boost. When I use those my CPU normally goes to a little over 4Ghz. By tweaking the CPU ratio I have been able to get it stable at around 4.2Ghz. Whenever I launch almost any game though (League of Legends/Fortnite are what I tested) my CPU clocks all lock themselves at 3.78Ghz and do not overclock to anything above that. Even after closing the games the clock rates stay locked at 3.78 until I restart my computer.

Any advice super appreciated. I have seen lots of websites saying that my FPS with this processor should be drastically higher than what I am getting.

I have gotten rid of Ryzen Master as that seemed to cause more issues than it was worth. Everything now has been done through the BIOS.

Specs
CPU: Ryzen 7 2700x
Cooler: Stock Wraith Prism
GPU: MSI 1060 6gb
RAM: Corsair 3000 32GB total running at 2933
MOBO: MSI B450 Tomahawk Max
PSU: 1000W EVGA
Monitor: Dell 2560x1440 @165hz

If you want to overclock at all plan on replacing that Wraith cooler.

I never had a Zen+ CPU to play with but I understand the best way to OC them using PBO is by undervolting along with extremely good cooling (cooling is a big part of any Ryzen since they're so temperature sensitive).

What I've seen...with B450 Tomahawks in particular...is enable PBO, drive PPT, EDC and TDC to their max settings, then undervolt using negative offsets only until just before it starts going unstable. Buildzoid has a pretty good 'how it's done' video....here:
MSI added offset voltage to their AM4 BIOS so here's how to use it with PBO - YouTube

That helps the CPU boost eagerly even above max core clocks for light threaded work loads, like gaming, when temperature is kept fairly low.

Otherwise, and for heavy multi-threaded workloads that heat up the CPU considerably, they still do manually overclock well enough but getting them to stay stable at a safe voltage while rendering 4k videos-- especially an 8 core CPU -- requires extremely good cooling. Here are some guidelines for voltages and temperatures.

 

[NelsonTheSmith]

If you want to overclock at all plan on replacing that Wraith cooler.

I never had a Zen+ CPU to play with but I understand the best way to OC them using PBO is by undervolting along with extremely good cooling (cooling is a big part of any Ryzen since they're so temperature sensitive).

What I've seen...with B450 Tomahawks in particular...is enable PBO, drive PPT, EDC and TDC to their max settings, then undervolt using negative offsets only until just before it starts going unstable. Buildzoid has a pretty good 'how it's done' video....here:
MSI added offset voltage to their AM4 BIOS so here's how to use it with PBO - YouTube

That helps the CPU boost eagerly even above max core clocks for light threaded work loads, like gaming, when temperature is kept fairly low.

Otherwise, and for heavy multi-threaded workloads that heat up the CPU considerably, they still do manually overclock well enough but getting them to stay stable at a safe voltage while rendering 4k videos-- especially an 8 core CPU -- requires extremely good cooling. Here are some guidelines for voltages and temperatures.

That's all really good info thank you for that. I had been using the undervolt at about -.05 and that seemed to help some. I have an evo 212 sitting around somewhere but I think I initially stuck with the stock wraith prism just because the evo would either not fit or barely fit in this NZXT case. I can definitely see if I can find it and swap that and thermal paste if that would make a big enough difference.

 

[drea.drechsler]

That's all really good info thank you for that. I had been using the undervolt at about -.05 and that seemed to help some. I have an evo 212 sitting around somewhere but I think I initially stuck with the stock wraith prism just because the evo would either not fit or barely fit in this NZXT case. I can definitely see if I can find it and swap that and thermal paste if that would make a big enough difference.

That Hyper212 EVO really isn't any more cooler than the Wraithe Prism although it may be a bit quieter at high fan speeds. So like the Prism, a Hyper 212 class cooler-not even the EVO-just isn't enough for an 8 core/16 thread CPU when it's working hard on something like video rendering while running a fixed all-core OC. You'll need something pretty massive if air-or a 240mm AIO-even when running on PBO to get full performance capability.

On PBO it's boost algorithm is still working so it pulls back clocks as it gets hot. That keeps it stable and "cool" so you may think a smaller cooler is enough but it's actually running with lower average clocks and performance much more than it does with a more capable cooler. It's also important to have really good case ventilation while gaming so that the GPU's furnace-like output doesn't simply serve to heat up the CPU.

 

[NelsonTheSmith]

That Hyper212 EVO really isn't any more cooler than the Wraithe Prism although it may be a bit quieter at high fan speeds. So like the Prism, a Hyper 212 class cooler-not even the EVO-just isn't enough for an 8 core/16 thread CPU when it's working hard on something like video rendering while running a fixed all-core OC. You'll need something pretty massive if air-or a 240mm AIO-even when running on PBO to get full performance capability.

On PBO it's boost algorithm is still working so it pulls back clocks as it gets hot. That keeps it stable and "cool" so you may think a smaller cooler is enough but it's actually running with lower average clocks and performance much more than it does with a more capable cooler. It's also important to have really good case ventilation while gaming so that the GPU's furnace-like output doesn't simply serve to heat up the CPU.

So if I were to get some sort of AIO water cooler than PBO would do a much better job of OCing itself? Do you have any idea what the OC would look like under ideal temps?

 

[drea.drechsler]

So if I were to get some sort of AIO water cooler than PBO would do a much better job of OCing itself? Do you have any idea what the OC would look like under ideal temps?

2700X...or Zen+...are built on 12nm so they don't have the same kind of thermal constraints as the 7nm of later generations. So it's boost algorithm isn't as aggressively temperature seeking...I tend to think all it will do is more eagerly hit it's rated single core max boost clock of 4.2Ghz and hold the boosts longer (it MIGHT hit higher, but don't expect a lot) to help with gaming. The biggest benefit though is it will hold mid-level boosts (I don't know for sure but maybe 3.9-4.0 Ghz) under heavy processing with all cores longer and that's where you get great performance results with Cinebench benchmarks.

As far as a fixed overclock goes, it depends entirely upon what your idea of 'ideal temps' are. But as with all generations of Ryzen AMD has pushed the technology to it's limits so that's pretty much all it will do with fixed clocks too unless you're comfortable going outside the temp and voltage guidelines linked earlier which could degrade it early. But 3 to 5 years of extremely good performance before it becomes unstable until returned to stock isn't so bad though as by then you're probably eager for more. This one's already 4 year old tech after all, and you have a motherboard that can comfortably fit a 3800X or 5800X so getting what you can out of it before making that move does make some sense.

 

[kerberos_20]

if youre not overheating, then youre hitting some power limits, can you run stress test (prime95/cinebench) and post screenshot from hwinfo?

 

[NelsonTheSmith]

2700X...or Zen+...are built on 12nm so they don't have the same kind of thermal constraints as the 7nm of later generations. So it's boost algorithm isn't as aggressively temperature seeking...I tend to think all it will do is more eagerly hit it's rated single core max boost clock of 4.2Ghz and hold the boosts longer (it MIGHT hit higher, but don't expect a lot) to help with gaming. The biggest benefit though is it will hold mid-level boosts (I don't know for sure but maybe 3.9-4.0 Ghz) under heavy processing with all cores longer and that's where you get great performance results with Cinebench benchmarks.

As far as a fixed overclock goes, it depends entirely upon what your idea of 'ideal temps' are. But as with all generations of Ryzen AMD has pushed the technology to it's limits so that's pretty much all it will do with fixed clocks too unless you're comfortable going outside the temp and voltage guidelines linked earlier which could degrade it early. But 3 to 5 years of extremely good performance before it becomes unstable until returned to stock isn't so bad though as by then you're probably eager for more. This one's already 4 year old tech after all, and you have a motherboard that can comfortably fit a 3800X or 5800X so getting what you can out of it before making that move does make some sense.

This seems like the move. I have gotten my 3080 back and fixed now so I think I will keep this CPU OC'd at about 4.1Ghz as it's getting better frames than with the 1060 obviously (CPU seems to be stable with decent temps ~70c give or take while gaming). Sorry to keep the questions coming but you seem pretty knowledgeable. As far as CPU upgrade for this mobo what would be the best performance for money option? Should I wait until the next AMD line drops and hopefully the prices for my compatible CPUS decreases?

if youre not overheating, then youre hitting some power limits, can you run stress test (prime95/cinebench) and post screenshot from hwinfo?

I have run one this morning after messing with the clocks a little and updating the bios version to the latest release. I believe on HWINFO it did not get higher than roughly 78c on the multicore, that was on the Tdie though. The Tctl showed a peak of like 88c or so.

Like I said above I think 4.1 is about the best I can get with the current cooling setup and paired with my 3080 now seems to be running much better and way more stable. Next upgrade will definitely be a new CPU in the future and likely an AIO that will be more effective for auto boosting or manual OCing.

 

[drea.drechsler]

This seems like the move. I have gotten my 3080 back and fixed now so I think I will keep this CPU OC'd at about 4.1Ghz as it's getting better frames than with the 1060 obviously (CPU seems to be stable with decent temps ~70c give or take while gaming). Sorry to keep the questions coming but you seem pretty knowledgeable. As far as CPU upgrade for this mobo what would be the best performance for money option? Should I wait until the next AMD line drops and hopefully the prices for my compatible CPUS decreases?
...

We're at the end of the line for AM4 cpu generations. The next drop will be Zen 4 on AM5 and that will most likely be much more expensive (motherboard+CPU+memory) if AMD only releases it with DDR5 support currently being reported. So a Ryzen 5000 CPU is your best next choice on this motherboard. IMO it's a good motherboard and worth upgrading the CPU. It may not support PCie gen 4 but then it's never been shown to help with gaming anyway. Then you can wait out the price drops for DDR5 memory...if it ever happens...along with the rest of us.

A good gaming price/performance upgrade choice on that board would be 5600X or 5700X. The best gaming CPU currently is the 5800X3D but it carries an appropriate price tag if you can find it. They should work well on your board.

 

[Karadjgne]

You have a Ryzen. Not an Intel. Disregarding the actual results being a functioning pc, there's really not much the same about those cpus. They work different, are different, think different, react different. So treating a Ryzen to a static OC like its an intel almost never works in anyone's favor. But that also includes you the user, clock speed for a Ryzen isn't the same, it's entirely possible to get better performance at better voltages and temps with lower clocks than with higher actual speeds. A high static OC can actually lower performance results vs a lower dynamic OC.

Try Clocktuner2. It was written by 1usmus with input from Linus, Buildzoid, and some World Class Amd overclockers. It's got some pretty easy directions and tutorials. Also can try Dram Calculator and fine tune your ram since Ryzens respond very well to faster ram operation. Just be warned that neither is plug n play, your cpu/ram is slightly different to others so where some would see a gain with specific settings, you may not. So both will require tweaking to your setup.

 

[NelsonTheSmith]

You have a Ryzen. Not an Intel. Disregarding the actual results being a functioning pc, there's really not much the same about those cpus. They work different, are different, think different, react different. So treating a Ryzen to a static OC like its an intel almost never works in anyone's favor. But that also includes you the user, clock speed for a Ryzen isn't the same, it's entirely possible to get better performance at better voltages and temps with lower clocks than with higher actual speeds. A high static OC can actually lower performance results vs a lower dynamic OC.

Try Clocktuner2. It was written by 1usmus with input from Linus, Buildzoid, and some World Class Amd overclockers. It's got some pretty easy directions and tutorials. Also can try Dram Calculator and fine tune your ram since Ryzens respond very well to faster ram operation. Just be warned that neither is plug n play, your cpu/ram is slightly different to others so where some would see a gain with specific settings, you may not. So both will require tweaking to your setup.

We're at the end of the line for AM4 cpu generations. The next drop will be Zen 4 on AM5 and that will most likely be much more expensive (motherboard+CPU+memory) if AMD only releases it with DDR5 support currently being reported. So a Ryzen 5000 CPU is your best next choice on this motherboard. IMO it's a good motherboard and worth upgrading the CPU. It may not support PCie gen 4 but then it's never been shown to help with gaming anyway. Then you can wait out the price drops for DDR5 memory...if it ever happens...along with the rest of us.

A good gaming price/performance upgrade choice on that board would be 5600X or 5700X. The best gaming CPU currently is the 5800X3D but it carries an appropriate price tag if you can find it. They should work well on your board.

Thank you both so much for all that information. Everything is running generally better now that I've left the OC to PBO and just upped my CPU fan speeds. Which seems to be a decent fix for now. I have tried using the DRAM Calculator before and I wasn't able to get it to work well. I have 4 sticks of 8gb 3000Mhz corsair ram. From what I've seen, having 4 sticks makes it harder to get higher speeds on them but if that is possible I would love to get that figured out. When I only had two sticks I had them running stable at 3200 but now I cannot get above 2933 for some reason.

 

[punkncat]

I (had) been using a 2700X for the past few years on an X370 Taichi. It never was particularly impressive in regard to its stability and ability under an OC as opposed to just being left alone. On mine it wouldn't run PBO without issue either. I felt more like that was a generational shortcoming rather than power, since the Taichi of that generation is known for having great power delivery. In your own case I honestly suspect power delivery the other way aside from cooling.

Stock cooler and/or inexpensive tower coolers aren't going to be the best for expecting more out of a 1+ gen refresh of what is essentially a power tweaked and (factory) overclocked 1xxx chip with a minor design improvement. Don't get me wrong, they are still a powerful and useable piece of hardware, but the factory parameters for them was pretty spot on in relation to stable performance.

side note- my system will not OC RAM above 29xx-3000 with X4 either.

 

[drea.drechsler]

...From what I've seen, having 4 sticks makes it harder to get higher speeds on them...

That is correct. It has to do with the way most motherboards interconnect the RAM sockets. Some boards are better at it because they use a different interconnect methodology, but they in turn aren't as good with 2 sticks.

In your situation it's a compromise: memory clock speed for memory capacity. When a process is shuffling around huge data arrays it's still going to be vastly better than hitting virtual memory.

 

[Karadjgne]

Ryzen 2000 series and prior were sorta gimped when it comes to ram, a byproduct of Fclock/Mclock and Uclock working hand in hand with clock speeds. What it did was A2/B2 were pretty much unlimited speeds as they are the primary slots. A1/B1 are secondary slots with a 2133MHz default.

So 4 sticks at 2133MHz, no worries, even 2400 bolted right in. 2666MHz is where things started to go South. Most vendors it was OK, but for some, using low grade silicon, lousy timings and high voltages, it was too much. By 2933MHz, that cuts out a good portion of the fluff. It's a 266Hz derivitive, so essentially the same thing as 3000MHz on a 200Hz derivitive, but more stable.

At 3200MHz, that's class A tweaking, best ram, good primary, secondary and tertiary timings all on the highest grade silicon. Very few ppl can tweak 4 sticks to get 3200MHz on Zen+ or prior. Unless they get lucky.


And Yes, Rank matters. Single rank ram like Trident-Z using Samsung B-die is far more successful than dual rank ram. Many 8Gb sticks are single Rank, almost all 16Gb and higher sticks are Dual Rank. Much easier to get 32Gb stable at 2933MHz than it is with 64Gb, you'd probably end up at 2666MHz.