Question Trying to set up a wired home network

[kanewolf]

LAN and WAN are usually the terms used in home networks.
The WAN side connects to the ISP (Internet Service Provider). There is usually a modem, but not always.
The LAN side is all the devices in the home. The may be wired via ethernet cable or wireless via WIFI.

 

[SamirD]

I want to solicit some information about setting up secondary routers and networking but I’m hampered by a lack of knowledge about a lot of the terms associated with these topics.

Can I start by asking a few naïve questions?:

When talking about communicating with the outside world with a modem, router etc. … we use the term ‘INTERnet connection’ … is that correct?

On the other hand, if I want to talk about using the router to connect 2 computers together so they can share files etc. … how do I refer to this … would this be a ‘INTRAnet connection’? or if I said ‘home network’ would that be what I’m talking about? … or is there a better word?

Whichever is the case for the above … am I right in thinking that such INTRANET connections would work just fine even if the INTERNET connection coming into the house from the provider was down?

I understand my computers can ‘talk’ to the router in 2 ways. Until recently, I’ve been only doing it via Wifi so that seems clear. Recently, I‘ve switched over to the ‘hard wired’ way, the ports seem to be referred to as LAN ports … so if I say I have a LAN connection … does that tell everyone I’m using the hard-wired way of connecting or … is there a better term to use?

Ok … My laptop is hard-wired to my router. The wifi is also on, does the laptop (I’m using Win 10 if that matters) automatically select the wired (LAN?) connection as the one to use or does it use both or does it use wifi? Right now, I have the wifi switched off, so I know I’m using the LAN connection but is this advisable or necessary?

Whether connected by wifi or LAN … is the password to the network the same? It seems like it is since it didn’t ask me for a new password when I switched over to LAN. Is this something that can likely be changed in the router settings? Allowing me to give someone the wifi password without allowing them LAN access (or vice versa I suppose)?

When you have a secondary router hooked up ... is there a simple way to verify that it's actually sending out a wifi signal?



OK … help with these questions would be greatly appreciated … then I can get into what I really want to ask about without sounding like a complete idiot … maybe lol.

Some of the answers above are right and some not so much, so I'm going to post some answers that hopefully will be more accurate.

1. Yes, any connection to the Internet is considered an Internet connection, not Intranet.

2. Local connections are simply local connections or 'peer-to-peer' connections. There's not really a term that I can recall that's consistently used--some are node, client, server, share--depend on what the connected equipment is. The network created to share 2 or more computers is typically a Local Area Network or LAN.

3. Yes, LAN should function fine even if Internet is down.

4. No. Any device with multiple network cards, wired or wireless should have only one connected to the LAN (there are many exceptions to this, but just trying to keep it simple). This is especially important on a computer with a wifi and wired connection since windows is not smart enough to know which to use.

5. There is no password on a LAN connection. The only way to get a LAN connection is via a wire. A wireless access point is actually a 'wireless bridge' that when the right password is inputted will allows a wireless client to connect to the wired LAN.

Hope this helps! (And other experts if you see corrections, please mention them and explain why so OP understands.)

 

[robert600]

LAN and WAN are usually the terms used in home networks.
The WAN side connects to the ISP (Internet Service Provider). There is usually a modem, but not always.
The LAN side is all the devices in the home. The may be wired via ethernet cable or wireless via WIFI.

OK ... this is good. So... if I'm understanding this correctly ... if I tell someone I'm LAN connected to the router ...they don't actually know if I'm connected via wifi or ethernet cable. If I want someone to clearly understand that I'm connected via ethernet cable ... is there a term I can use? or... do I have to type out 'connected via ethernet cable'?

 

[kerberos_20]

OK ... this is good. So... if I'm understanding this correctly ... jf I tell someone I'm LAN connected to the router ...they don't actually know if I'm connected via wifi or ethernet cable. If I want someone to clearly understand that I'm connected via ethernet cable ... is there a term I can use? or... do I have to type out 'connected via ethernet cable'?

wired should do

 

[robert600]

OK ... I'll try some of this terminolgy out to reask a question.

If my WAN goes down ( ISP goes down or I simply unplug the incoming cable) ... does my LAN still work?

 

[kerberos_20]

OK ... I'll try some of this terminolgy out to reask a question.

If my WAN goes down ( ISP goes down or I simply unplug the incoming cable) ... does my LAN still work?

yup, lan will still work, u get no internet, but sharing files, printers, wifi etc will work

 

[USAFRet]

OK ... I'll try some of this terminolgy out to reask a question.

If my WAN goes down ( ISP goes down or I simply unplug the incoming cable) ... does my LAN still work?

Your systems in the house can still talk to each other.

A router with 4 LAN ports and WiFi can work completely internally, with no outside access.
The 4 LAN ports are actually a 'switch'. Traffic between 2 devices connected to that switch never travels beyond the switch.

 

[robert600]

u can open router sertting by typing its ip adress in web browser to check its wifi settings if its enabled, wifi name/passwords/connected clients

I think I understand what you're saying but it's been my experience that just because a device 'tells' you it's doing something ... it doesn't necessarily mean it is. In this for instance, The antenna or something like that could be broken. I didn't word my question very well. What I really meant is ... how can I easily test that devices are receiving wifi from the secondary receiver? I suppose I could put a lead box around the primary router ha ha.

 

[kerberos_20]

I think I understand what you're saying but it's been my experience that just because a device 'tells' you it's doing something ... it doesn't necessarily mean it is. In this for instance, The antenna or something like that could be broken. I didn't word my question very well. What I really meant is ... how can I easily test that devices are receiving wifi from the secondary receiver? I suppose I could put a lead box around the primary router ha ha.

that is simple, rename your wifi on your second router
then u will see if any device picks it up or not

or u can just stand nearby with phone..see your wifi signal bars on phone...turn off that 2nd router..see if bars drop (due to longer distance to first wifi router)
better use some tool in phone for reading wifi signal strenght...search market for wifi analyzer

 

[robert600]

A router with 4 LAN ports and WiFi can work completely internally, with no outside access.
The 4 LAN ports are actually a 'switch'. Traffic between 2 devices connected to that switch never travels beyond the switch.

Ok ... that's very good to know. I'm in a rural setting so the ISP goes down from time to time. You know of my LAN situation from a previous thread. The WAN being down will in no way interfer with my file copying or using PLEX between computers to access movies? That's good ... very good ... if I miss a payment to my ISP ... I can still watch movies lol.

 

[SamirD]

OK ... this is good. So... if I'm understanding this correctly ... if I tell someone I'm LAN connected to the router ...they don't actually know if I'm connected via wifi or ethernet cable. If I want someone to clearly understand that I'm connected via ethernet cable ... is there a term I can use? or... do I have to type out 'connected via ethernet cable'?

'wired to lan' would be the term.

 

[SamirD]

OK ... I'll try some of this terminolgy out to reask a question.

If my WAN goes down ( ISP goes down or I simply unplug the incoming cable) ... does my LAN still work?

Yes LAN will still work. Anything trying to access the WAN/Internet will get an error.

 

[SamirD]

I think I understand what you're saying but it's been my experience that just because a device 'tells' you it's doing something ... it doesn't necessarily mean it is. In this for instance, The antenna or something like that could be broken. I didn't word my question very well. What I really meant is ... how can I easily test that devices are receiving wifi from the secondary receiver? I suppose I could put a lead box around the primary router ha ha.

Change the ssid on the second router to something different. Then you can pick exactly which access point a device connects to.

 

[SamirD]

... if I miss a payment to my ISP ... I can still watch movies lol.

As long as your router isn't your isps--they could do something there for non-payment.

 

[robert600]

that is simple, rename your wifi on your second router
then u will see if any device picks it up or not

or u can just stand nearby with phone..see your wifi signal bars on phone...turn off that 2nd router..see if bars drop (due to longer distance to first wifi router)
better use some tool in phone for reading wifi signal strenght...search market for wifi analyzer

Ok ... renamed and my tablet picked it up and is is working fine! Thanks so much!

Option #2 wouldn't really work because ... I forgot to mention that the secondary router is directly beside the primary ... I've since learned that this is not ideal ... one signal can interfer with the other? ... that hasn't been an issue for me probably because I've been really only using the secondary as a bridge to have more wired LAN ports.

Good to know the wifi on the secondary works though ... I have no idea how I managed to get it configured correctly ... anyway ... this secondary is unsuitable for what I want to do and has to go. There's another modem I'd prefer to use as a secondary and configure a little differently if possible. I'm sure I'm going to need help for that (at the very least to understand how it does what it does) ... and is the reasom for me wanting to get this terminology straight. It's probably best a start a new thread for this.

 

[robert600]

As long as your router isn't your isps--they could do something there for non-payment.

Well ... I was trying to make a joke but that raises an interesting point ... if you unplugged the feed into the house ... would they still be able to access the router and make changes? Maybe by wifi... right?

 

[USAFRet]

Well ... I was trying to make a joke but that raises an interesting point ... if you unplugged the feed into the house ... would they still be able to access the router and make changes? Maybe by wifi... right?

WiFi admin is almost always turned OFF by default, for good reasons.
A PC that is wired can probably connect to the router and change whatever settings are applicable.

 

[SamirD]

Well ... I was trying to make a joke but that raises an interesting point ... if you unplugged the feed into the house ... would they still be able to access the router and make changes? Maybe by wifi... right?

If you unplugged it from the outside world, then there's zero access from the outside world.

 

[robert600]

One final question before I start the new thread. I've been operating under the assumption that these wired LAN ports ... both on the back of the routers and the computers are a bit like usb ports inasmuch as .... you can just plug into them without turning the router or computer off. Is this correct though?

 

[USAFRet]

One final question before I start the new thread. I've been operating under the assumption that these wired LAN ports ... both on the back of the routers and the computers are a bit like usb ports inasmuch as .... you can just plug into them without turning the router or computer off. Is this correct though?

Correct.

 

[SamirD]

One final question before I start the new thread. I've been operating under the assumption that these wired LAN ports ... both on the back of the routers and the computers are a bit like usb ports inasmuch as .... you can just plug into them without turning the router or computer off. Is this correct though?

That is correct. In fact, they are more like phone wire in how you can connect and disconnect them immediately since they will link up without any software side attention.

 

[robert600]

Wow … what a difference understanding a few simple terms makes. Many thanks to everyone for helping with that. I did some late night googling last night and many, many mysterious things are now not so mysterious ... needless to say there still a few that remain. I think a huge source of my confusion and concern regarding secondary routers was because I thought LAN connections meant hard wired connections. As a result when searching for info on 'secondary routers and LAN connections', I got only results talking about wirelessly connecting the routers (bridging?). As soon as I specified ‘wired LAN connections’, that changed everything and the info I got is much more in keeping with what I’m after (cascading?).

Anyway … I’ll start that new secondary router thread later tonight to make sure I’m on the right track but I feel like I’m so much better equipped to talk about it now than I was yesterday.

 

[gggplaya]

Wow … what a difference understanding a few simple terms makes. Many thanks to everyone for helping with that. I did some late night googling last night and many, many mysterious things are now not so mysterious ... needless to say there still a few that remain. I think a huge source of my confusion and concern regarding secondary routers was because I thought LAN connections meant hard wired connections. As a result when searching for info on 'secondary routers and LAN connections', I got only results talking about wirelessly connecting the routers (bridging?). As soon as I specified ‘wired LAN connections’, that changed everything and the info I got is much more in keeping with what I’m after (cascading?).

Anyway … I’ll start that new secondary router thread later tonight to make sure I’m on the right track but I feel like I’m so much better equipped to talk about it now than I was yesterday.

What you're referring to is probably more commonly listed as a "wired backhaul" or "ethernet backhaul."

Backhaul is typically the connection from the main router to a secondary wifi access point. It can be a wired ethernet backhaul or a wireless backhaul.

 

[robert600]

WHERE I AM AND HOW I GOT HERE:

I am a teacher. Covid has totally changed this profession. A few weeks back, we went into total lockdown and all teaching is now on-line only using TEAMS. We now have 3 choices … We can …

1/ Quit (some have done this)

2/ Go into the board office (with about 15 – 20 other teachers) be given a cubicle with a computer and proceed and try to get on with the job of course being masked the entire time. Needless to say, it’s an anxiety filled environment with everyone trying to get up to speed on this entirely new way of doing things. There are a couple of I.T. support people but … they’re just constantly swamped troubleshooting everyone’s problems. Bottom line … not a place you want be.

3/ Work from Home. By far the best option but you need the hardware, infrastructure to pull it off. I tried this using wifi and just couldn’t manage it so back to the board office for me.

One of the different things about on-line teaching is that the parents are often in the background hovering about. One in particular, noticed my disconnection and stuttering issues and jumped in. His company has the contract for ethernet wiring at the university. They’ve recently changed specs so that he’s no longer allowed to use CAT 5e wiring. He offered to give me a bunch of stuff from his mini-warehouse storage place. I accepted and he loaded me up with a huge spool of CAT 5e wire … a bunch of connectors … crimpers and 4 or 5 modems. Knowing nothing about networks etc. I did things in the wrong order; crimped up some cables (this turns out to be a bit tricky but manageable) and set up a secondary router (I picked the prettiest looking one). Turns out of course, it wasn’t the best choice. Anyways … As soon as I switched to wired LAN … bingo … I can now work at home! … no disconnection or stuttering whatsoever … been doing this for about a week so … very happy about this … mission accomplished in as far as the oh so important task of making a living is concerned. All is good in this regard.

I’m pretty sure that as far as WAN is concerned … my infrastructure can exceed the speed of the incoming signal from the ISP … I’m in the country … there’s only one ISP out here and I’ve got the top package they offer. I’m at the very end of a dead-end road and service is unlikely to improve anytime soon. BUT … just because I have lousy WAN … doesn’t mean I can’t have pretty decent wired LAN … right? OK … so I started a thread about that … got tons of help … we managed to find and eliminate a bunch of 100 Mbps bottlenecks. Very happy to say that I can now copy files from one computer to another at roughly 635 Mbps (a ways off of the ideal 1000 Mbps but not too shabby … right?). That’s only provided that both laptops are wire connected to my primary router. It has 10/100/1000 ports. I’m thinking the next step forward for me is to improve the secondary router. Turns out, the one I picked (a dlink) has only 10/100 LAN ports so … it’s another bottleneck for my wired LAN system … right? Looking at the routers, there is one (a Linksys) with 4 10/100/1000 LAN ports, removable antennae (which may be very useful later when it gets put where I think it’s going to go … more on that later) and a usb 3.0 port. I’m thinking this would be a much better choice for a secondary … am I right about this? My goal here, of course, is to be able to copy files from one laptop (wire connected to the secondary router) to another laptop (wired to the primary router) at 635 Mbps or at least close to that speed.

Ok my previous help searches were hampered by not understanding that LAN could mean wifi as well as wired connections. Without specifying wired in the search I got endless information about secondary routers connecting to primaries by wireless … wifi signals bouncing back and forth between the routers. This had me concerned, since I’m trying to get the speeds I want … I don’t want wifi involved at all. Late last night (after all the help I received from the naive questions thread) I regoogled using the ‘wired connected secondary routers’ and got pointed to much better information. I think I see now how to take wifi out of the router to router connection.

I think this from the Linksys website will be my bible to configuring the new router:

https://www.linksys.com/gb/support-article/?articleNum=132275

Previous to last night, I thought I wanted to set it up as ‘a bridge’. Turns out … ‘bridge’ means wifi router to router so … it seems what I really want is ‘cascade’. It seems there are 2 ways to ‘cascade’ … if I go primary router LAN to LAN port of secondary … both routers end up on the same network (this is what I want … right?). If I connect it primary LAN to WAN of secondary … I’d end up with entirely separate network … is that right? Kinda cool but not what I want … right?

Anyway … enough for one post. Sorry if I’ve rambled on but I’m trying to ‘get my head around’ all this stuff. Am I correct in my thinking so far … that I want to set this secondary router as a ‘Cascade’ LAN to LAN connection?

 

[robert600]

What you're referring to is probably more commonly listed as a "wired backhaul" or "ethernet backhaul."

Backhaul is typically the connection from the main router to a secondary wifi access point. It can be a wired ethernet backhaul or a wireless backhaul.

Ok ty for that ... 'backhaul' ... the only time I've heard that term is when flyfishing ... it's a casting technique lol.