News TSMC 'cannot produce 2nm chips overseas' until domestic output becomes more advanced, confirms Taiwanese govt official

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M0rtis

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Thats fair enough I guess. If they can keep up production to meet demand, then there is no reason why they should export their bleeding edge tech and not keep the benefits and maximise the revenue for their own country. This is especially important given how strategically important TSMC is to Taiwan.
 

mwestall

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If Intel 18A works out for mass fab then 2nm will not be needed.
Sure, Intel will have capacity to build all the sub 3nm class chips the entire world needs.
They'll barely be able to produce enough for themselves, have you really no idea of TSMC's scale?
 
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Like if it were an Arizona or USA achievement. It is always TSMC, also if it is placed elsewhere.
To be fair, TSMC complained a lot about culture differences of American workers and inability to find American workers with the skills required, only for the Arizona fab to produce numbers that matched or exceeded the Taiwan fabs. So at the very least, we can say that despite initial skepticism by Taiwan, American workers can achieve equivalent output and quality.
 
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Gururu

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Sure, Intel will have capacity to build all the sub 3nm class chips the entire world needs.
They'll barely be able to produce enough for themselves, have you really no idea of TSMC's scale?
Don't limit your thinking to company IP. Open your mind to the nation state.
 

thisisaname

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One thing I do not understand by all this is the machines used it make this noded are not made in Taiwan.
All this does is stop TSMC from doing it outside Taiwan, or the real reason <the rest is politics>
 

umeng2002_2

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To be fair, TSMC complained a lot about culture differences of American workers and inability to find American workers with the skills required, only for the Arizona fab to produce numbers that matched or exceeded the Taiwan fabs. So at the very least, we can say that despite initial skepticism by Taiwan, American workers can achieve equivalent output and quality.

That complaining was just to drive down wages. When companies hem and haw about not finding enough qualified workers, that is just corporate speak for complaining they'll have to spend more money to find better workers. It's never about the existence of workers with enough talent. It's about how much they are willing to pay for those workers. The talent is out there.
 
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Co BIY

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Seems like friendly spirited public negotiation.

Seems like the "Latest node" will be whatever works to TSMCs advantage since they are currently running several that are the best for a given goal.

Is it the most efficient, or the technically smallest, or the one that produces the maximum speed ?
 

rluker5

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Shouldn't be a surprise that TSMC is often controlled by Taiwan. And makes decisions in Taiwan's interests that are often against the west's interests. Just because the US is giving equal or better treatment to TSMC under the Chips act doesn't mean Taiwan will reciprocate.
Personally I think Intel should have been given preferential treatment, but I'm biased since my tax dollars are going to that.

If you count nation insurance the preferential treatment of TSMC over Intel grows. Why not put Intel first?
 

SunMaster

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It’s funny that TSMC was founded by Morris Chang, an American citizen, and is majority owned by American Entities, but the U.S. is not privy to the bleeding edge node. Not complaining, just pointing that out.

The wikipedia page lists major owners - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC
A quote is "Around 56% of TSMC shares are held by the general public and around 38% are held by institutions"

How do you come to the conclusion it's majority owned by american entities?
 

SunMaster

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ETFs, personal 401Ks/IRAs all count as general public

From https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/sem...aiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/information
Top 25 shareholders own 33.49% of the company
OwnershipNameSharesCurrent ValueChange %Portfolio %
6.38%National Development Fund, Executive Yuan1,653,709,980US$55.4b0%91.45%
5.09%BlackRock, Inc.1,320,767,102US$44.2b0%0.69%
4.32%Capital Research and Management Company1,120,712,242US$37.5b1.55%2.27%
3.15%Singapore816,695,089US$27.3b0%no data
1.7%Norges Bank Investment Management441,068,838US$14.8b-0.15%1.16%
1.43%FMR LLC370,406,745US$12.4b-2.1%1.2%
1.31%New Labor Pension Scheme340,875,755US$11.4b0%37.85%
1.26%The Vanguard Group, Inc.326,887,297US$10.9b-1.05%0.16%
0.96%Yuanta Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.249,856,117US$8.4b14.6%28.71%
0.78%Fidelity International Ltd202,044,676US$6.8b-0.19%2.97%
0.78%JP Morgan Asset Management201,746,344US$6.8b0.33%1.23%
0.74%Baillie Gifford & Co.192,873,130US$6.5b-1.45%2.96%
0.65%Fubon Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Asset Management Arm169,320,221US$5.7b0%32.24%
0.53%T. Rowe Price Group, Inc.136,687,998US$4.6b-8.67%0.5%
0.51%Invesco Ltd.133,338,402US$4.5b-10.1%1.2%
0.51%Geode Capital Management, LLC131,325,165US$4.4b3.19%0.32%
0.48%Deutsche Asset & Wealth Management124,207,565US$4.2b-0.05%1.28%
0.46%Swedbank Robur Fonder AB118,179,085US$4.0b-0.1%2.73%
0.44%GQG Partners LLC115,346,526US$3.9b19.8%4.27%
0.39%Schroder Investment Management LimitedOf100,993,785US$3.4b-0.83%2.67%
0.37%Dimensional Fund Advisors LP95,606,059US$3.2b-1.88%0.57%
0.35%UBS Asset Management AG89,675,908US$3.0b13.9%0.44%
0.33%Fubon Asset Management Co., Ltd.84,597,480US$2.8b6.43%35.54%
0.29%Massachusetts Financial Services Company75,469,722US$2.5b9.89%1.42%
0.28%abrdn plc72,496,568US$2.4b-1.82%1.86%


Of those 25 10 are US based and own 11,21% (the other 15 own about 22.28%). If you wish to claim that US interests own more than 50% please provide something else than an assertion. If this is to be true, US companies need to hold 67% of the remaining shares.

(The US based companies are Blackrock, Fmr llc, The vanguard group. JP Morgan, T Rowe, Invesco Ltd.,Geode Capital Management, LLC, GQG Partners LLC, Dimensional Fund Advisors, Massachusetts Financial Services Company)
 
From https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/sem...aiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/information
Top 25 shareholders own 33.49% of the company
OwnershipNameSharesCurrent ValueChange %Portfolio %
6.38%National Development Fund, Executive Yuan1,653,709,980US$55.4b0%91.45%
5.09%BlackRock, Inc.1,320,767,102US$44.2b0%0.69%
4.32%Capital Research and Management Company1,120,712,242US$37.5b1.55%2.27%
3.15%Singapore816,695,089US$27.3b0%no data
1.7%Norges Bank Investment Management441,068,838US$14.8b-0.15%1.16%
1.43%FMR LLC370,406,745US$12.4b-2.1%1.2%
1.31%New Labor Pension Scheme340,875,755US$11.4b0%37.85%
1.26%The Vanguard Group, Inc.326,887,297US$10.9b-1.05%0.16%
0.96%Yuanta Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.249,856,117US$8.4b14.6%28.71%
0.78%Fidelity International Ltd202,044,676US$6.8b-0.19%2.97%
0.78%JP Morgan Asset Management201,746,344US$6.8b0.33%1.23%
0.74%Baillie Gifford & Co.192,873,130US$6.5b-1.45%2.96%
0.65%Fubon Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Asset Management Arm169,320,221US$5.7b0%32.24%
0.53%T. Rowe Price Group, Inc.136,687,998US$4.6b-8.67%0.5%
0.51%Invesco Ltd.133,338,402US$4.5b-10.1%1.2%
0.51%Geode Capital Management, LLC131,325,165US$4.4b3.19%0.32%
0.48%Deutsche Asset & Wealth Management124,207,565US$4.2b-0.05%1.28%
0.46%Swedbank Robur Fonder AB118,179,085US$4.0b-0.1%2.73%
0.44%GQG Partners LLC115,346,526US$3.9b19.8%4.27%
0.39%Schroder Investment Management LimitedOf100,993,785US$3.4b-0.83%2.67%
0.37%Dimensional Fund Advisors LP95,606,059US$3.2b-1.88%0.57%
0.35%UBS Asset Management AG89,675,908US$3.0b13.9%0.44%
0.33%Fubon Asset Management Co., Ltd.84,597,480US$2.8b6.43%35.54%
0.29%Massachusetts Financial Services Company75,469,722US$2.5b9.89%1.42%
0.28%abrdn plc72,496,568US$2.4b-1.82%1.86%


Of those 25 10 are US based and own 11,21% (the other 15 own about 22.28%). If you wish to claim that US interests own more than 50% please provide something else than an assertion. If this is to be true, US companies need to hold 67% of the remaining shares.

(The US based companies are Blackrock, Fmr llc, The vanguard group. JP Morgan, T Rowe, Invesco Ltd.,Geode Capital Management, LLC, GQG Partners LLC, Dimensional Fund Advisors, Massachusetts Financial Services Company)
That’s a good start, long way to go.
 
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