News TSMC 'cannot produce 2nm chips overseas' until domestic output becomes more advanced, confirms Taiwanese govt official

[Admin]

TSMC cannot transfer its leading-edge technologies abroad in accordance with Taiwanese laws, says Minister of Economic Affairs.

TSMC 'cannot produce 2nm chips overseas' until domestic output becomes more advanced, confirms Taiwanese govt official : Read more

 

[M0rtis]

Thats fair enough I guess. If they can keep up production to meet demand, then there is no reason why they should export their bleeding edge tech and not keep the benefits and maximise the revenue for their own country. This is especially important given how strategically important TSMC is to Taiwan.

 

[Gururu]

If Intel 18A works out for mass fab then 2nm will not be needed.

 

[Pierce2623]

I guess he didn’t like the report saying Arizona was already outperforming Taiwan on 4nm yields.

 

[mwestall]

If Intel 18A works out for mass fab then 2nm will not be needed.

Sure, Intel will have capacity to build all the sub 3nm class chips the entire world needs.
They'll barely be able to produce enough for themselves, have you really no idea of TSMC's scale?

 

[hotaru251]

wasnt this known at start? I recall them stating they wouldn't be making their cutting edge node in US fab juts its older nodes. (which seemed weird but if its a nations law makes more sense now)

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Last Gen's node is "Good Enough" for TSMC Fabs that are outside of Taiwan to manufacture.

It makes sense from a TSMC / Taiwan perspective.

 

[SunMaster]

If Intel 18A works out for mass fab then 2nm will not be needed.

Intels imaginary tech will of course be used for Qualcom, Apple, Nvidia and AMD as well. There'll be hordes of competing companies begging Intel to manufacture their secrets.

 

[Li Ken-un]

It makes sense from a TSMC / Taiwan perspective.

A case of “good for the goose; good for the gander” here. Being an observer of sanctions against a neighbor should be all the writing on the wall needed to motivate precaution. It’s every country for itself.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

It’s every country for itself.

That's always been the case.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

It’s funny that TSMC was founded by Morris Chang, an American citizen, and is majority owned by American Entities, but the U.S. is not privy to the bleeding edge node. Not complaining, just pointing that out.

 

[NinoPino]

I guess he didn’t like the report saying Arizona was already outperforming Taiwan on 4nm yields.

Like if it were an Arizona or USA achievement. It is always TSMC, also if it is placed elsewhere.

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

Like if it were an Arizona or USA achievement. It is always TSMC, also if it is placed elsewhere.

To be fair, TSMC complained a lot about culture differences of American workers and inability to find American workers with the skills required, only for the Arizona fab to produce numbers that matched or exceeded the Taiwan fabs. So at the very least, we can say that despite initial skepticism by Taiwan, American workers can achieve equivalent output and quality.

 

[Gururu]

Sure, Intel will have capacity to build all the sub 3nm class chips the entire world needs.
They'll barely be able to produce enough for themselves, have you really no idea of TSMC's scale?

Don't limit your thinking to company IP. Open your mind to the nation state.

 

[thisisaname]

One thing I do not understand by all this is the machines used it make this noded are not made in Taiwan.
All this does is stop TSMC from doing it outside Taiwan, or the real reason <the rest is politics>

 

[umeng2002_2]

To be fair, TSMC complained a lot about culture differences of American workers and inability to find American workers with the skills required, only for the Arizona fab to produce numbers that matched or exceeded the Taiwan fabs. So at the very least, we can say that despite initial skepticism by Taiwan, American workers can achieve equivalent output and quality.

That complaining was just to drive down wages. When companies hem and haw about not finding enough qualified workers, that is just corporate speak for complaining they'll have to spend more money to find better workers. It's never about the existence of workers with enough talent. It's about how much they are willing to pay for those workers. The talent is out there.

 

[Kondamin]

Suddenly asml is no longer allowed to deliver NA euv machines to Taiwan.

 

[Co BIY]

Seems like friendly spirited public negotiation.

Seems like the "Latest node" will be whatever works to TSMCs advantage since they are currently running several that are the best for a given goal.

Is it the most efficient, or the technically smallest, or the one that produces the maximum speed ?

 

[rluker5]

Shouldn't be a surprise that TSMC is often controlled by Taiwan. And makes decisions in Taiwan's interests that are often against the west's interests. Just because the US is giving equal or better treatment to TSMC under the Chips act doesn't mean Taiwan will reciprocate.
Personally I think Intel should have been given preferential treatment, but I'm biased since my tax dollars are going to that.

If you count nation insurance the preferential treatment of TSMC over Intel grows. Why not put Intel first?

 

[SunMaster]

It’s funny that TSMC was founded by Morris Chang, an American citizen, and is majority owned by American Entities, but the U.S. is not privy to the bleeding edge node. Not complaining, just pointing that out.

The wikipedia page lists major owners - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC
A quote is "Around 56% of TSMC shares are held by the general public and around 38% are held by institutions"

How do you come to the conclusion it's majority owned by american entities?

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

The wikipedia page lists major owners - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC
A quote is "Around 56% of TSMC shares are held by the general public and around 38% are held by institutions"

How do you come to the conclusion it's majority owned by american entities?

My TD-Ameritrade account allows me to see exactly which institutions, hedge funds, ETFs, IRAs, 401Ks, etc. own TSMC.

 

[SunMaster]

My TD-Ameritrade account allows me to see exactly which institutions, hedge funds, ETFs, IRAs, 401Ks, etc. own TSMC.

Institutions only make up 38% of the stock.

 

[SunMaster]

ETFs, personal 401Ks/IRAs all count as general public

From https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/sem...aiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/information
Top 25 shareholders own 33.49% of the company

Ownership	Name	Shares	Current Value	Change %	Portfolio %
6.38%	National Development Fund, Executive Yuan	1,653,709,980	US$55.4b	0%	91.45%
5.09%	BlackRock, Inc.	1,320,767,102	US$44.2b	0%	0.69%
4.32%	Capital Research and Management Company	1,120,712,242	US$37.5b	1.55%	2.27%
3.15%	Singapore	816,695,089	US$27.3b	0%	no data
1.7%	Norges Bank Investment Management	441,068,838	US$14.8b	-0.15%	1.16%
1.43%	FMR LLC	370,406,745	US$12.4b	-2.1%	1.2%
1.31%	New Labor Pension Scheme	340,875,755	US$11.4b	0%	37.85%
1.26%	The Vanguard Group, Inc.	326,887,297	US$10.9b	-1.05%	0.16%
0.96%	Yuanta Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.	249,856,117	US$8.4b	14.6%	28.71%
0.78%	Fidelity International Ltd	202,044,676	US$6.8b	-0.19%	2.97%
0.78%	JP Morgan Asset Management	201,746,344	US$6.8b	0.33%	1.23%
0.74%	Baillie Gifford & Co.	192,873,130	US$6.5b	-1.45%	2.96%
0.65%	Fubon Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Asset Management Arm	169,320,221	US$5.7b	0%	32.24%
0.53%	T. Rowe Price Group, Inc.	136,687,998	US$4.6b	-8.67%	0.5%
0.51%	Invesco Ltd.	133,338,402	US$4.5b	-10.1%	1.2%
0.51%	Geode Capital Management, LLC	131,325,165	US$4.4b	3.19%	0.32%
0.48%	Deutsche Asset & Wealth Management	124,207,565	US$4.2b	-0.05%	1.28%
0.46%	Swedbank Robur Fonder AB	118,179,085	US$4.0b	-0.1%	2.73%
0.44%	GQG Partners LLC	115,346,526	US$3.9b	19.8%	4.27%
0.39%	Schroder Investment Management LimitedOf	100,993,785	US$3.4b	-0.83%	2.67%
0.37%	Dimensional Fund Advisors LP	95,606,059	US$3.2b	-1.88%	0.57%
0.35%	UBS Asset Management AG	89,675,908	US$3.0b	13.9%	0.44%
0.33%	Fubon Asset Management Co., Ltd.	84,597,480	US$2.8b	6.43%	35.54%
0.29%	Massachusetts Financial Services Company	75,469,722	US$2.5b	9.89%	1.42%
0.28%	abrdn plc	72,496,568	US$2.4b	-1.82%	1.86%

Of those 25 10 are US based and own 11,21% (the other 15 own about 22.28%). If you wish to claim that US interests own more than 50% please provide something else than an assertion. If this is to be true, US companies need to hold 67% of the remaining shares.

(The US based companies are Blackrock, Fmr llc, The vanguard group. JP Morgan, T Rowe, Invesco Ltd.,Geode Capital Management, LLC, GQG Partners LLC, Dimensional Fund Advisors, Massachusetts Financial Services Company)

 

[The Historical Fidelity]

From https://simplywall.st/stocks/us/sem...aiwan-semiconductor-manufacturing/information
Top 25 shareholders own 33.49% of the company

Ownership	Name	Shares	Current Value	Change %	Portfolio %
6.38%	National Development Fund, Executive Yuan	1,653,709,980	US$55.4b	0%	91.45%
5.09%	BlackRock, Inc.	1,320,767,102	US$44.2b	0%	0.69%
4.32%	Capital Research and Management Company	1,120,712,242	US$37.5b	1.55%	2.27%
3.15%	Singapore	816,695,089	US$27.3b	0%	no data
1.7%	Norges Bank Investment Management	441,068,838	US$14.8b	-0.15%	1.16%
1.43%	FMR LLC	370,406,745	US$12.4b	-2.1%	1.2%
1.31%	New Labor Pension Scheme	340,875,755	US$11.4b	0%	37.85%
1.26%	The Vanguard Group, Inc.	326,887,297	US$10.9b	-1.05%	0.16%
0.96%	Yuanta Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.	249,856,117	US$8.4b	14.6%	28.71%
0.78%	Fidelity International Ltd	202,044,676	US$6.8b	-0.19%	2.97%
0.78%	JP Morgan Asset Management	201,746,344	US$6.8b	0.33%	1.23%
0.74%	Baillie Gifford & Co.	192,873,130	US$6.5b	-1.45%	2.96%
0.65%	Fubon Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Asset Management Arm	169,320,221	US$5.7b	0%	32.24%
0.53%	T. Rowe Price Group, Inc.	136,687,998	US$4.6b	-8.67%	0.5%
0.51%	Invesco Ltd.	133,338,402	US$4.5b	-10.1%	1.2%
0.51%	Geode Capital Management, LLC	131,325,165	US$4.4b	3.19%	0.32%
0.48%	Deutsche Asset & Wealth Management	124,207,565	US$4.2b	-0.05%	1.28%
0.46%	Swedbank Robur Fonder AB	118,179,085	US$4.0b	-0.1%	2.73%
0.44%	GQG Partners LLC	115,346,526	US$3.9b	19.8%	4.27%
0.39%	Schroder Investment Management LimitedOf	100,993,785	US$3.4b	-0.83%	2.67%
0.37%	Dimensional Fund Advisors LP	95,606,059	US$3.2b	-1.88%	0.57%
0.35%	UBS Asset Management AG	89,675,908	US$3.0b	13.9%	0.44%
0.33%	Fubon Asset Management Co., Ltd.	84,597,480	US$2.8b	6.43%	35.54%
0.29%	Massachusetts Financial Services Company	75,469,722	US$2.5b	9.89%	1.42%
0.28%	abrdn plc	72,496,568	US$2.4b	-1.82%	1.86%

Of those 25 10 are US based and own 11,21% (the other 15 own about 22.28%). If you wish to claim that US interests own more than 50% please provide something else than an assertion. If this is to be true, US companies need to hold 67% of the remaining shares.

(The US based companies are Blackrock, Fmr llc, The vanguard group. JP Morgan, T Rowe, Invesco Ltd.,Geode Capital Management, LLC, GQG Partners LLC, Dimensional Fund Advisors, Massachusetts Financial Services Company)

That’s a good start, long way to go.

 

[SunMaster]

That’s a good start, long way to go.

The proof's in the pudding. In this case, you are the pudding.