Question Two 5800X Questions

Crag_Hack

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Hi I have two quick 5800x questions - I'm leaning towards it because of its position in the AMD hierarchy. Is this a good choice? I don't care about wasting $20-40 to get a CPU that's a little faster than another while also being less cost effective. I'm doing gaming with a teensy bit of production but don't really care about how fast the production goes. And I don't like the high thermals of Intel's 11th gen CPUs (they are pretty high right?). Any reason not to go with the 5800X?

Also with AMD's Ryzen 5000 CPUs do we have to worry about mobos deceptively changing the conditions under which the CPU operates to boost performance as mentioned in these two videos (the whole PL1 Pl2 Tau thing)?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_-p5Zq9u9c

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4th6YElNm5w


Thanks!
 
Nothing wrong with a 5800x. General consensus is to go with a 5600x or 5900x depending on price markup. 5800x is kinda in the middle and not really worth the extra money for strictly gaming and the 5900x is a better deal for multi core performance. With all that said, if a 5800x suits your needs then it’s an awesome CPU and will do everything you want.
 

Phaaze88

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Any reason not to go with the 5800X?
It runs hot too, but not for the same reasons as a 10700K/11700K would.
Supposedly, it's the hottest part in the Ryzen 5000 lineup.

Also with AMD's Ryzen 5000 CPUs do we have to worry about mobos deceptively changing the conditions under which the CPU operates to boost performance as mentioned in these two videos (the whole PL1 Pl2 Tau thing)?
Yes. Blame marketing.
Gotta make their product look better than the others and one of the ways to do that is to have the cpus perform better in their motherboards, stock operation be damned.
I guess it doesn't matter to them if it ups the odds of a worse user experience.
They're always trying to one up each other - you'll never see the end of it.
 

Crag_Hack

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@Phaaze88 What kinda thermals are we talking about? I'm looking at an NH-D15. I could change to 11700k if it makes more sense (I prefer more PCIe 4 with AMD solutions). I assume it's easy to disable the mobo settings that change the parameters the CPU operates under for the AMD 5800x right?
 
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Phaaze88

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What kinda thermals are we talking about?
That'd be hard to answer without one of my own.
I can only point you to towards the numerous '5800X is running hot' threads out there.

If an 11700K gets hot at the die because of it's large cores and power consumption, then the 5800X gets hot at the socket because of higher thermal density(7nm Vs 14nm) and... well, physics.
The heatspreader can't effectively transfer all the heat from the multiple 7nm dies up through the IHS/paste/cpu cooler base, so some of the heat is effectively 'lost' in the socket.
Intel's planning to do multiple dies with Alder Lake, so they could run into the same problem... we'll know once it's available.

I'm looking at an NH-D15.
I've been pondering this for awhile, but I'm thinking a D15 isn't even that good on this cpu. It just doesn't pull that much power, and would never soak this cooler, or any of the big hybrid coolers.
A U12A and U14S - dare I say, a U12S even - would be more efficient sitting on this cpu.
The 11700K can keep the D15 as long as:
-no OC
-run balanced power plan + Intel Speed Shift
-no multi core enhancements
-no Dragon Center 'performance profiles'
 

Crag_Hack

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@bmockeg Thanks I'll probably go with it we'll see.

@Phaaze88 Thanks for the detailed response. The only reason I worry about high thermals is because of decreased lifespan. Is that relevant in this situation for the 5800X? How much life would I get out of it do you know approximately? Don't all high end i7 and Ryzen 7 CPUs run hot by design?
 
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Bassman999

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@bmockeg Thanks I'll probably go with it we'll see.

@Phaaze88 Thanks for the detailed response. The only reason I worry about high thermals is because of decreased lifespan. Is that relevant in this situation for the 5800X? How much life would I get out of it do you know approximately? Don't all high end i7 and Ryzen 7 CPUs run hot by design?
If you keep it under 80c is should last longer than its usefulness. Meaning you will want to upgrade before it fails in most cases.
 
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ClapTrapper

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I would go with a 5600. Like bmockeg said, a 5900x is overkill for you being a mostly gamer. A 5600x should have no problem running all games out there (of course with the right GPU,ram,etc.).

If you have comparable recent cpus from Intel and AMD, Intel always requires more power. Therefore worse thermals. Don't get me wrong,I'd get Intel under certain circumstances,but intel has some ground to make up right now. So I lean heavily towards AMD.

Most likely you won't see any difference in most games between a 5600x and 5800x. BTW,you didn't mention what games you are playing. And 5600x should be easier to get than a 5900x.
 
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@bmockeg Thanks I'll probably go with it we'll see.

@Phaaze88 Thanks for the detailed response. The only reason I worry about high thermals is because of decreased lifespan. Is that relevant in this situation for the 5800X? How much life would I get out of it do you know approximately? Don't all high end i7 and Ryzen 7 CPUs run hot by design?
One thing about the thermals with Ryzen is it can be misleading. Phaaze88 gave you one side of the situation...the problem of thermal density with 7nm chips...the other side is how agressively the Ryzen boost algorithm works to deal with it.

The algorithm boosts individual cores to maximum boost clocks under light loads. Each time it boosts it can spike temperature in one tiny area of one CPU's die. There are literally dozens of temp sensors scattered all over the chiplets and it reports only one sensor during a polling cycle and that's the highest temp in the bunch.

So it's really not all that thermally relevant (kind of like a lit match in a room) until it starts hitting more and more areas under an all-core workload. That's when the boost algorithm reduces how high and how long it will boost. A better cooling setup, keeping it under the 80's, will pay off with much better performance. But even if temp gets into the 80's it will be reducing voltage to keep the CPU safe...but clocks go lower too, reducing performance. That's why top-notch cooling pays even if not overclocking.
 

Crag_Hack

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@Bassman999 Keep under 80 all the time or only when not boosting?

@ClapTrapper I'm attracted to the 5800x because of the better multithreaded performance. Might end up using it, can't hurt (except for money and thermals).

@drea.drechsler I'm looking at a 5800X with a NH-D15. Will I probably be good to go for under 80s?

Aren't all i7/Ryzen 7 CPUs going to run hot in the first place?
 
....
@drea.drechsler I'm looking at a 5800X with a NH-D15. Will I probably be good to go for under 80s?
...
For gaming, in a well cooled case, I have to image temps in the low 70's or even mid 60's would be expected. The thing to pay attention to is case ventilation. Balanced intake/exhaust fans to bring cool air in and take the GPU's hot air out or that huge Noctua will just be using it's air to keep the CPU warm.

Wade into the dark waters of overclocking, of course, and that changes a lot. But Ryzen, especially 4rth gen, doesn't really benefit much from overclocking as the boost algorithm is just so darn effective.

....
@ClapTrapper I'm attracted to the 5800x because of the better multithreaded performance. Might end up using it, can't hurt (except for money and thermals).
...
Obviously, the 5600X will game pretty much as well in most scenarios. But I think that's probably the best use-case for the 5800X, where someone kinda wants to get into challenges where the cores will benefit (3D graphics arts, production quality video editing and content creation, whatever) but still on the line about it. Not enough reason to put up the money for 5900X...but the 5600X just won't provide enough performance to make those first bites easier to chew.
 
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Bassman999

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@Bassman999 @drea.drechsler I'm looking at the Be Quiet Silent Base 802 with a Noctua NH-D15, does the case probably have sufficient airflow? And I assume the Noctua will do the job.
Make sure to use the airflow covers not the quiet ones to keep it cool enough. And fill in all the case fan locations with quality fans.
Front fans intake top and rear fans exhaust with the air cooling cpu cooler
 

Crag_Hack

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@Bassman999 Airflow cover meaning mesh panel in front right? Yea the preinstalled fans are Pure Wings cheapest Be Quiet! makes. I'll swap 'em out with Noctuas if that's sufficient. We got 2 140mm fans in front or 3 with one butting up against the PSU shroud (looks like in the pictures) and 1 in back. Also could put 1 or 2 on the top.
 
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Bassman999

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@Bassman999 Airflow cover meaning mesh panel in front right? Yea the preinstalled fans are Pure Wings cheapest Be Quiet! makes. I'll swap 'em out with Noctuas if that's sufficient. We got 2 140mm fans in front or 3 with one butting up against the PSU shroud (looks like in the pictures) and 1 in back. Also could put 1 or 2 on the top.
Yes the mesh front and top panels. Noctua fans are a great choice! Fan curve can be set in the bios
 

Karadjgne

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5600x is a disabled/failed 5800x. The 5800x has a single die for cores, 8 of them. So the silicon used has to be perfect to get all 8 cores to pass. This puts a price premium on manufacture, which gets passed down to the consumer.

If just 1 or 2 cores fail for any reason, amd electrically disables 2 cores and you get a 6core 5600x with the same single cores die.

That premium puts it in a wierd place, much closer to the 5900x price than closer to 5600x, which many reviewers don't like, too expensive.

But it's a jack-of-all trades cpu. It'll hang with the big boys of Intel, mostly beating the performance of the 11700k and tieing the 11900k, and isn't far behind the 5900x in most things, but for gaming the 5600x is right on its heals, so a much better value there.

The 2 best value cpus for production, with gaming as a side piece are the 10900k and 5900x, the 2 best value cpus for gaming with production on the side are the 11400 and 5600x.

That puts the 10700/k, 11700k/11900k and the 5800x in the middle, more expensive than they should be for the performance.

According to reviewers.

But according to me, and many others, owning a cpu like the Jack's for 4+ years often has benefits that belay the initial outlay, for example most said don't buy the 3770k, wasn't worth the extra $100 over the 3570k, yet the 3770k is still quite widely used and the 3570k long retired as competitive. Those extra 4 threads make a huge difference.

So could the extra capacity of the 5800x vs a 5600x. No guarantees, nobody knows for sure, but the extra cost is chump change over that length of time.
 

Bassman999

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5600x is a disabled/failed 5800x. The 5800x has a single die for cores, 8 of them. So the silicon used has to be perfect to get all 8 cores to pass. This puts a price premium on manufacture, which gets passed down to the consumer.

If just 1 or 2 cores fail for any reason, amd electrically disables 2 cores and you get a 6core 5600x with the same single cores die.

That premium puts it in a wierd place, much closer to the 5900x price than closer to 5600x, which many reviewers don't like, too expensive.

But it's a jack-of-all trades cpu. It'll hang with the big boys of Intel, mostly beating the performance of the 11700k and tieing the 11900k, and isn't far behind the 5900x in most things, but for gaming the 5600x is right on its heals, so a much better value there.

The 2 best value cpus for production, with gaming as a side piece are the 10900k and 5900x, the 2 best value cpus for gaming with production on the side are the 11400 and 5600x.

That puts the 10700/k, 11700k/11900k and the 5800x in the middle, more expensive than they should be for the performance.

According to reviewers.

But according to me, and many others, owning a cpu like the Jack's for 4+ years often has benefits that belay the initial outlay, for example most said don't buy the 3770k, wasn't worth the extra $100 over the 3570k, yet the 3770k is still quite widely used and the 3570k long retired as competitive. Those extra 4 threads make a huge difference.

So could the extra capacity of the 5800x vs a 5600x. No guarantees, nobody knows for sure, but the extra cost is chump change over that length of time.
Valid points.
I originally bought the 5800x, but found a 5900x at msrp and went for it.
Im sure there isnt much difference in what I use it for.
 

RagedAPE

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I have one and got 240+ FPS on resident evil 7 at 1080p lol. Smooth no lag on cyberpunk fully maxed out. Control fully maxed out at about 150 FPS raytracing etc. I only ever play with ray tracing if the game has it. not found a game that makes me lag yet maxed out, played almost all of them. Recommend the chip.
 

Crag_Hack

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Now this coincides with my plans to buy a new system... Maybe I should wait to see if there's a 5800XT; what do you think? Sounds like we might know about such in the next month if not sooner.
 
Now this coincides with my plans to buy a new system... Maybe I should wait to see if there's a 5800XT; what do you think? Sounds like we might know about such in the next month if not sooner.
If you're not in a rush it seems the obvious thing to do...but also remember that rumors don't always pan out.

And then there's this: the 3800XT was rather unimpressive so the big question is: will a 5800XT be equally unimpressive? Or maybe the mid-cycle refresh will be about something else entirely. We just don't know much and that article didn't really help with that.
 

Karadjgne

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5800x will be fine, it's still a very good cpu. Paying extra for a slight boost to speeds on an overclockable cpu that's already close to the silicon limits is pointless. Little bit of tinkering and the X becomes indistinguishable form an XT. XT doesn't really stand for Xtra Tuned, it's more closely related to Xtenuated Theft.
 
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