Question Two 5800X Questions

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Karadjgne

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Just look at the 3600, 3600x, 3600xt. Same cpu, couple of tweaks that set 'out of the box' values a little higher. Once in a pc, and you start messing with cooling, voltages, pbo and ram speeds etc, all those differences pretty much go out the window, with whatever extra you spent.

As iffy as userbenchmark can be, even it's showing a 1%, 3% differences between an x and xt for those cpus. At OOB stock settings.

It's basically nothing more than a sales gimmick for 3rd party OEMs like HP to add a couple extra $$ to the price 'ooh, this model has the XT instead of the X, it must be better'
 

Crag_Hack

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Hi guys I'm planning on ordering my PC in the next day or two. I had no idea the 5900x was only ~$120 more expensive than the 5800x; it is therefore an attractive option for me. It is however sold out right now. What's the chances of me finding one of those bad boys? I don't really care enough to wait around a month or so to find one available... the 5800x is a great CPU anyways.

Also AMD lists the TDP of both at 105W. I remember reading about either Intel or AMD TDPs being a totally irrelevant metric since they are computed differently for each CPU model however I don't remember which brand it was or if it was both. Are we looking at similar thermals? Is the NH-D15 sufficient for the 5900X?

Thanks!
 

Phaaze88

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AMD's TDP measurements are a bit more accurate to what their cpus will do under all core loads.
Intel? The TDP for them only accounts for all core loads at BASE clock, and no one's going to purposefully want to run their cpu like that, except out of curiosity or something like that.
Intel starting posting a PL2 rating with their last 2 gens, which is supposed to account for all core Turbo Boost, but since they don't strongly enforce their own PL1 and PL2 limits, this is still a bit of a miss, as under the right conditions, the user can exceed PL2.

I can say with certainty, that you can get by with more affordable coolers on Ryzen 7 and 9 compared to i7s and i9s.
Ryzen has better power efficiency, but the offset dies under the hood(IHS) kinda screw with heat transfer to the cpu cooler.

The NH-D15 is sufficient for a 5900X. The Intel equivalent? Uhh... well, the closest would then be the 10850K/10900K.
The NH-D15 would be fine for those too, as long as you enforce Intel's limits.
 
Hi guys I'm planning on ordering my PC in the next day or two. I had no idea the 5900x was only ~$120 more expensive than the 5800x; it is therefore an attractive option for me. It is however sold out right now. What's the chances of me finding one of those bad boys? I don't really care enough to wait around a month or so to find one available... the 5800x is a great CPU anyways.
....
The value prop 5900x offers is pretty obvious; has been to reviewers too ever since launch and made it way more recommended over 5800x. That's made them popular and pretty hard to find as a result; I've seen occasional hits for in-store sales at my Microcenter but it's spotty and sometimes weeks in between.

BTW...AMD can make 2 5600x's with the cpu chiplets used in one 5900x. Something to think about in this era of supply shortages everywhere.
 
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Karadjgne

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The 5600x and 5800x are the same thing. The 5800x is 8 cores on a die that can only fit 8 cores, so the silicon must be perfect. If even 1 core fails to reach AMD expected results, AMD burns that core and the next worse core, and you get a 5600x.

This puts the 5800x at a disadvantage to price because of the silicon used. It also means that any 5600x that results from that silicon are usually Golden. The 5900x is like the 5600x, it has cores to spare as it uses 2 CCX instead of one, so it's easier to manufacture, and results are more consistent.

Because AMD has chosen a lower price point for the 5900x, and it's outstanding performance vs its Intel competition, it only makes it to the shelf for seconds, if at all.

Also, because of the silicon used, it puts the 5800x at an advantage, in gaming its usually barely behind the 5900x, if not equal, games don't use enough cores to give the higher core count 5900x enough use. It's only in production apps that can use the core difference where the 5900x is a clear winner.

So for just gaming, 5800x or 5900x really makes no difference, and often the 5600x is so close behind both that the 5600x becomes considerably better value at initial purchase.

Reviewers have had absolutely no issue with the 5800x performance, it beats out the Intels and at worst ties Intels best, the only gripe being the 5800x initial price as compared to the Intel cpu's and its price point compared to the 5600x - 5900x. $100 lower price and you'd have a harder time getting a 5800x than currently trying to get a 5900x/5950x.
 
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Jun 1, 2021
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I love my 5800X so far. But I agree if you can get a 5600X at 300 (50$/core) it is a better value but realistically they are going for more like 360 (60$/core) which puts it right in line with an easy to get 5800X at 426 (53.26$/core). A 5900X is also a better value if you need a power house CPU but it is quite a waste for gaming. That is only if you can get it at MSRP of 559 (46.6$/core). If you pay 600 or 650 (54.1$/core) it loses a lot of value quickly. Yes games are getting better at multicore but speed is still king.

I got the 5800X because I tend to keep PCs for 10 years and I am worried 6 cores will be too little in 5-6 years. Alternatively a 5600X now and a used 5950X in 5 years for 300 is in the realm of possibility.
 

Crag_Hack

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Thanks Nichabell. I tend not to obsess over small differences in price ratios in the long run 50-100$ lost now is nothing.

Got the 5900X at Central Computers in Sunnyvale CA! They had 19 yesterday and are down to 7 as of now... pure luck. Will the 5900X run cooler than the 5800X?
 
.... Will the 5900X run cooler than the 5800X?
In identical workload, identical coolers, identical motherboard and case...no. A 5900x has 50% more cores/threads so that's only to be expected.

Either are perfectly manageable. Most of the drama comes down to people not realizing they're seeing an instantaneous 'hot spot' temperature with Ryzen and they're more used to seeing an average temperature across the die. It seems hotter and in some ways it is but it's not the same.
 
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I might have gotten lucky with my 5800X but I have not had any issues with hot spots or spikes. My buddy with a 5900X has. Mine peaks at 69 and my buddies peaks at 87 and he has a better cooler. Average temps are the same and at the end of the day it is well within spec. You could under volt and under clock and get 5800X performance at ridiculously low temps but I have to ask the question why?
 
.... Mine peaks at 69 and my buddies peaks at 87 and he has a better cooler. Average temps are the same and at the end of the day it is well within spec. .....
I wonder if BIOS or AGESA version has something to do with it. I just changed motherboard from MSI B450M Mortar to Asus B550m TUF plus, moving a 3700X to the new board. The temp spiking that was typical on the B450 went almost completely away on the B550. In fact the CPU temp (Tctl/Tdie) is almost identical to the Temperature CPU Die (average) reading in HWInfo64 and Ryzenmaster. Tctl/Tdie temp reading comes from the CPU in telemetry so the only thing different is BIOS/AGESA, that makes me think some are averaging now instead of hot-spotting.
 

Dreadbeard

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Just putting in my 2cents, I use a 5800x for gaming and I love it, it's super fast and does anything I want, the temps are concerning for sure, running a 240mm aio on it and the cpu still likes to hit 91c, I will point out it doesn't go above 91c ever and doesn't seem to throttle either, I've seen around that amd designed the chip this way and that it's working as intended.
 

Crag_Hack

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Either are perfectly manageable. Most of the drama comes down to people not realizing they're seeing an instantaneous 'hot spot' temperature with Ryzen and they're more used to seeing an average temperature across the die. It seems hotter and in some ways it is but it's not the same.
@drea.drechsler Is there any way to get a reading of the average temperature as is done with most CPUs or is the CPU locked down to only reporting the hot spot? Does this apply to all 5000 series CPUs?
 
@drea.drechsler Is there any way to get a reading of the average temperature as is done with most CPUs or is the CPU locked down to only reporting the hot spot? Does this apply to all 5000 series CPUs?
HWInfo64, the CPU Die (average) report, would be the closest. But I've noticed the later BIOS updates to my motherboard seem to be averaging the reading too. Also Ryzenmaster, but that's a bit overkill just to see temperature IMO.

Although 5800X's seem to be a bit pronounced all of 7nm CPU's have the same boost-temp response characteristics. A result of the high power density that makes it challenge to rapidly transfer heat out of the cpu die. Lots of speculation why 5800x's seem the way they are, but it's just that.
 
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