Unplugging power cord

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <1dbbyz1kb658q$.1y082gck140j3$.dlg@40tude.net>, "Bob@see-
below-for-address.com" Bob@see-below-for-address.com says...
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:21:25 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
> > Bob@see-below-for-address.com wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:40:08 +0100, Derek Baker wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I see in the manual for my new motherboard - an MSI K8N Neo - it says to
> >>>remove the power cord when inserting and removing cards and DIMMs.
> >>>
> >>>Is this good advice or excessive caution? With my current board I never did
> >>>that.
> >>
> >>
> >> Plug the PC power cord into a "power strip" that is plugged into the
> >> electrical outlet. The "power strip" is turned OFF. Your PC is grounded,
> >> but it receives no current. Any suggestion that you remove the power cord
> >> is, of course, ridiculous, since there is no grounding path.
> >
> > No, it isn't 'ridiculous' because there is no great over-riding cosmic
> > significance to having the 'earth ground' connection. What matters is
> > everything being at the same potential, whether it's 'earth ground' or not.
>
> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.

There is if you touch everything to the chassis.

> That is why you ground the PC and wear a grounding strap. Done deal.
>
The strap equalises potential, it will do that whether the chassis is
grounded or not.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
<nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:


>> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
>
>There is if you touch everything to the chassis.

.... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
charge to the case. Ground strap is good, but unnecessary...
main thing is to have parts alreay next to system, touch
case/ground before handling parts. If environment is so prone to
static that this isn't sufficient then best course is altering
environment.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

The P4 based motherboards have power on ALL THE TIME to the motherboard,
even when the front power switch is Off.

--
DaveW



"Derek Baker" <me@derekbaker.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Jt6dnbWXkY0ovIfcRVn-tw@eclipse.net.uk...
> I see in the manual for my new motherboard - an MSI K8N Neo - it says to
> remove the power cord when inserting and removing cards and DIMMs.
>
> Is this good advice or excessive caution? With my current board I never
did
> that.
>
> --
> Derek
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:

> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> charge to the case.

?

 

[Bob]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:55:33 GMT, kony wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
>>
>>There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
>
> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> charge to the case. Ground strap is good, but unnecessary...
> main thing is to have parts alreay next to system, touch
> case/ground before handling parts. If environment is so prone to
> static that this isn't sufficient then best course is altering
> environment.

Er, how do you alter the environment? Obviously, I do not expect a reply.
--
r.s.nevin@att.net

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Bob@see-below-for-address.com wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 22:21:25 -0500, David Maynard wrote:
>
>
>>Bob@see-below-for-address.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:40:08 +0100, Derek Baker wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I see in the manual for my new motherboard - an MSI K8N Neo - it says to
>>>>remove the power cord when inserting and removing cards and DIMMs.
>>>>
>>>>Is this good advice or excessive caution? With my current board I never did
>>>>that.
>>>
>>>
>>>Plug the PC power cord into a "power strip" that is plugged into the
>>>electrical outlet. The "power strip" is turned OFF. Your PC is grounded,
>>>but it receives no current. Any suggestion that you remove the power cord
>>>is, of course, ridiculous, since there is no grounding path.
>>
>>No, it isn't 'ridiculous' because there is no great over-riding cosmic
>>significance to having the 'earth ground' connection. What matters is
>>everything being at the same potential, whether it's 'earth ground' or not.
>
>
> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.

Yes there is: touch the case.

> That is why you ground the PC and wear a grounding strap. Done deal.

I didn't say that wouldn't work. What I said was it isn't the only way.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:58:16 GMT, Bob@see-below-for-address.com
wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:55:33 GMT, kony wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
>> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
>>>
>>>There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
>>
>> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
>> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
>> charge to the case. Ground strap is good, but unnecessary...
>> main thing is to have parts alreay next to system, touch
>> case/ground before handling parts. If environment is so prone to
>> static that this isn't sufficient then best course is altering
>> environment.
>
>Er, how do you alter the environment? Obviously, I do not expect a reply.

Then why ask the question?

Altering the environment means doing things not dependent on
installer action to reduce risk. For example, grounded
workstation or desk, increasing air humidity, ionizing air,
anti-static treament for carpeting. Further, setting up storage
area for parts adjacent to the construction so travel to and fro
is minimized.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:29:55 +0100, Michael Salem
<a$-b$1@ms3.org.uk> wrote:

>kony wrote:
>
>> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
>> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
>> charge to the case.
>
>?

What's the mystery?

Touching something to the chassis to equalize potential is
causing flow across that object being touched to chassis. I
took "component" to mean the part, not the installer's hand prior
to handling that part.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:29:55 +0100, Michael Salem
> <a$-b$1@ms3.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >kony wrote:
> >
> >> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> >> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> >> charge to the case.
> >
> >?
>
> What's the mystery?

Parsing that sentence

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <i4tnh0to0drpa3kpngqi8ual2i6ecc6re5@4ax.com>, "kony"
spam@spam.com says...
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> >> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
> >
> >There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
>
> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> charge to the case.
>
Can you repeat that in English please?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <23hoh0huaht2mns97v4f53b5065rfmem6p@4ax.com>, "kony"
spam@spam.com says...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 01:29:55 +0100, Michael Salem
> <a$-b$1@ms3.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >kony wrote:
> >
> >> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> >> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> >> charge to the case.
> >
> >?
>
> What's the mystery?
>
> Touching something to the chassis to equalize potential is
> causing flow across that object being touched to chassis. I
> took "component" to mean the part, not the installer's hand prior
> to handling that part.
>
You equalise potential by touching the component to the case _before_
removing it from its anti-static packaging.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:00:48 +0100, Rob Morley
<nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>In article <i4tnh0to0drpa3kpngqi8ual2i6ecc6re5@4ax.com>, "kony"
>spam@spam.com says...
>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
>> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
>> >
>> >There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
>>
>> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
>> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
>> charge to the case.
>>
>Can you repeat that in English please?

Previously you had not made clear that part was in anti-static
packaging. If part were not in packaging, and at different
potential than case, then "touchinging" it to the chassis could
only equalize potential if it caused the exact situation we
wished to avoid, having flow through that part.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <jebqh0dted9kh0fcbb1g1bcrd1i3j9vv3d@4ax.com>, "kony"
spam@spam.com says...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:00:48 +0100, Rob Morley
> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <i4tnh0to0drpa3kpngqi8ual2i6ecc6re5@4ax.com>, "kony"
> >spam@spam.com says...
> >> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
> >> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
> >> >
> >> >There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
> >>
> >> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> >> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> >> charge to the case.
> >>
> >Can you repeat that in English please?
>
> Previously you had not made clear that part was in anti-static
> packaging.

I did say that in another post in this thread a couple of days ago.

> If part were not in packaging, and at different
> potential than case, then "touchinging" it to the chassis could
> only equalize potential if it caused the exact situation we
> wished to avoid, having flow through that part.
>
Precisely

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

"Derek Baker" <me@derekbaker.eclipse.co.uk> wrote in
news6idnX7fLtlB3obcRVn-pw@eclipse.net.uk:

> Parish wrote:

>> Duh! Must get some new glasses - I read your original post as *eight*
>> pounds, hence my keeness to know whether it was new
>>
>> Parish
>
> That's funny: I typed eight first, but corrected it before I posted.
>

Telepathic transmission of mispellings ...

 

[Bob]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:32:13 GMT, kony wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:58:16 GMT, Bob@see-below-for-address.com
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:55:33 GMT, kony wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
>>> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the same potential.
>>>>
>>>>There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
>>>
>>> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
>>> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
>>> charge to the case. Ground strap is good, but unnecessary...
>>> main thing is to have parts alreay next to system, touch
>>> case/ground before handling parts. If environment is so prone to
>>> static that this isn't sufficient then best course is altering
>>> environment.
>>
>>Er, how do you alter the environment? Obviously, I do not expect a reply.
>
> Then why ask the question?

I had hoped to allow you the opportunity of avoiding the embarrassment of
defending a ridiculous proposition.

> Altering the environment means doing things not dependent on
> installer action to reduce risk. For example, grounded
> workstation or desk, increasing air humidity, ionizing air,
> anti-static treament for carpeting. Further, setting up storage
> area for parts adjacent to the construction so travel to and fro
> is minimized.

My solution works all of the time. You propose buying a humidifier that
would certainly cost ten times my solution. How exactly would you ionize
the air? Anti-static treatments for carpets would cost even more money.
In any event, such products have been banned in the U.S.A for many years.

This is not a contest. It should be a discussion. Your position is
untenable. Let it go. Move on with your life.
--
r.s.nevin@att.net

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

<Er, how do you alter the environment? Obviously, I do not expect a
reply>

there is a thing just invented called Air conditioning. Swap
cooler(evaps) condition the air, and you would be hard pressed to
create static while that's on.


<Bob@see-below-for-address.com> wrote in message
news:1xesmogmt79u7.1owga3v1q8z02$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:32:13 GMT, kony wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:58:16 GMT, Bob@see-below-for-address.com
> > wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:55:33 GMT, kony wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
> >>> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the
same potential.
> >>>>
> >>>>There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
> >>>
> >>> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> >>> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> >>> charge to the case. Ground strap is good, but unnecessary...
> >>> main thing is to have parts alreay next to system, touch
> >>> case/ground before handling parts. If environment is so prone
to
> >>> static that this isn't sufficient then best course is altering
> >>> environment.
> >>
> >>.
> >
> > Then why ask the question?
>
> I had hoped to allow you the opportunity of avoiding the
embarrassment of
> defending a ridiculous proposition.
>
> > Altering the environment means doing things not dependent on
> > installer action to reduce risk. For example, grounded
> > workstation or desk, increasing air humidity, ionizing air,
> > anti-static treament for carpeting. Further, setting up storage
> > area for parts adjacent to the construction so travel to and fro
> > is minimized.
>
> My solution works all of the time. You propose buying a humidifier
that
> would certainly cost ten times my solution. How exactly would you
ionize
> the air? Anti-static treatments for carpets would cost even more
money.
> In any event, such products have been banned in the U.S.A for many
years.
>
> This is not a contest. It should be a discussion. Your position is
> untenable. Let it go. Move on with your life.
> --
> r.s.nevin@att.net

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 03:03:02 GMT, Bob@see-below-for-address.com
wrote:


>>
>> Then why ask the question?
>
>I had hoped to allow you the opportunity of avoiding the embarrassment of
>defending a ridiculous proposition.

Then get your head out of the clouds, what I wrote was correct
though a bit awkwardly worded.


>> Altering the environment means doing things not dependent on
>> installer action to reduce risk. For example, grounded
>> workstation or desk, increasing air humidity, ionizing air,
>> anti-static treament for carpeting. Further, setting up storage
>> area for parts adjacent to the construction so travel to and fro
>> is minimized.
>
>My solution works all of the time. You propose buying a humidifier that
>would certainly cost ten times my solution. How exactly would you ionize
>the air? Anti-static treatments for carpets would cost even more money.
>In any event, such products have been banned in the U.S.A for many years.

Your solution is fine, I never wrote that there is any problem
using a grounding strap. Perhaps reading for comprehension isn't
your forte?

I listed several methods of static reduction, which are known to
be effective but they were never mentioned as alternatives to a
grounding strap. The grounding strap has two primary failings,
that it is likely to be disconnected at some point, and that it
does not provide any protection against anyone other than person
wearing it. Redundancy is not always needed but is certainly a
good thing if, as I wrote, the particular environment is prone to
static. Ideally assembly should not be done in such an
environment at all.

Which such products are banned in the US?
Anti-static treaments, humidifiers, and ionizers are certainly
not banned in the US. I am NOT claiming everyone should go out
and buy these things for single-system build though, but to be
technically correct, it isn't wise to just put a ground strap
next to a desk if the entire area is hazardous.

>
>This is not a contest. It should be a discussion. Your position is
>untenable. Let it go. Move on with your life.


LOL, wake up on the wrong side of the bed today?

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

SWAMP*

"JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:10hrcl7kslgbjb6@corp.supernews.com...
> <Er, how do you alter the environment? Obviously, I do not expect a
> reply>
>
> there is a thing just invented called Air conditioning. Swap
> cooler(evaps) condition the air, and you would be hard pressed to
> create static while that's on.
>
>
> <Bob@see-below-for-address.com> wrote in message
> news:1xesmogmt79u7.1owga3v1q8z02$.dlg@40tude.net...
> > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 04:32:13 GMT, kony wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:58:16 GMT, Bob@see-below-for-address.com
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:55:33 GMT, kony wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Rob Morley
> > >>> <nospam@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>> Except that there is no guarantee that everything is at the
> same potential.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>There is if you touch everything to the chassis.
> > >>>
> > >>> ... and that's the main thing we shouldn't do, cause equalized
> > >>> potential by having the held component be the traveled path of
> > >>> charge to the case. Ground strap is good, but unnecessary...
> > >>> main thing is to have parts alreay next to system, touch
> > >>> case/ground before handling parts. If environment is so prone
> to
> > >>> static that this isn't sufficient then best course is altering
> > >>> environment.
> > >>
> > >>.
> > >
> > > Then why ask the question?
> >
> > I had hoped to allow you the opportunity of avoiding the
> embarrassment of
> > defending a ridiculous proposition.
> >
> > > Altering the environment means doing things not dependent on
> > > installer action to reduce risk. For example, grounded
> > > workstation or desk, increasing air humidity, ionizing air,
> > > anti-static treament for carpeting. Further, setting up storage
> > > area for parts adjacent to the construction so travel to and fro
> > > is minimized.
> >
> > My solution works all of the time. You propose buying a
humidifier
> that
> > would certainly cost ten times my solution. How exactly would you
> ionize
> > the air? Anti-static treatments for carpets would cost even more
> money.
> > In any event, such products have been banned in the U.S.A for many
> years.
> >
> > This is not a contest. It should be a discussion. Your position
is
> > untenable. Let it go. Move on with your life.
> > --
> > r.s.nevin@att.net
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

DaveW wrote:
>
> The P4 based motherboards have power on ALL THE TIME to the motherboard,
> even when the front power switch is Off.

Yes, this is because the front switch is not a mains switch, the switch
sends a signal to the PSU. In an ATX PSU all the live mains voltage is
confined to the PSU box, hence it is safe to work on the computer with
the power cord plugged in. (Not so for an AT PSU)

The recommendation from Crucial is to keep the power cord in place when
fitting their memory modules, that will establish the ground potential
for the system and avoid differences in potential, provided the operator
has been discharged to ground.

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

<,The recommendation from Crucial is to keep the power cord in place
when>


your nuts and so is crucial (if in fact that's what they said).....
power cord in, with power running to it and no switch on the PSU means
power to the memory and to the PCI slots, plugging a mod in when this
is the scenario will bust that mod.
Unplugged with a grounded metal strip on the bench where you would, if
you were inclined to, attach a anti-static bands clip to. I haven't
worn a ASWB for years now.....never lost a component yet. But then I
don't work in a carpeted, dry environment, on top of a metal table
with a plastic top. ;^)



"Johannes H Andersen" <johs@asrswonacxvusoxsizefitternmcoewxer.com>
wrote in message
news:411DF8D7.41B4A97D@asrswonacxvusoxsizefitternmcoewxer.com...
>
>
> DaveW wrote:
> >
> > The P4 based motherboards have power on ALL THE TIME to the
motherboard,
> > even when the front power switch is Off.
>
> Yes, this is because the front switch is not a mains switch, the
switch
> sends a signal to the PSU. In an ATX PSU all the live mains voltage
is
> confined to the PSU box, hence it is safe to work on the computer
with
> the power cord plugged in. (Not so for an AT PSU)
>
>
> fitting their memory modules, that will establish the ground
potential
> for the system and avoid differences in potential, provided the
operator
> has been discharged to ground.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:
>
> <,The recommendation from Crucial is to keep the power cord in place
> when>
>
> your nuts and so is crucial (if in fact that's what they said).....
> power cord in, with power running to it and no switch on the PSU means
> power to the memory and to the PCI slots, plugging a mod in when this
> is the scenario will bust that mod.

Obviously the PSU is in OFF state, hence no power to motherboard at all.
The front switch may be connected to the motherboard, but all it does
is connecting/disconnecting two wires that comes out of the PSU, this
signalling the PSU to go ON/OFF. So no nuts today I'm afraid.

> Unplugged with a grounded metal strip on the bench where you would, if
> you were inclined to, attach a anti-static bands clip to. I haven't
> worn a ASWB for years now.....never lost a component yet. But then I
> don't work in a carpeted, dry environment, on top of a metal table
> with a plastic top. ;^)

Yup, as long as everything is grounded.

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

<Obviously the PSU is in OFF state, >

JHA,
some... and from what I've seen lately there are about 2/3 of PSU's
out there with NO on/off switch. Whether this is a Old Vs New ATX, I
couldn't tell you what the standards call for, but if you leave these
plugged in your gonna have problems. I realize that the front
switch(non at) is merely a short/voltage drop type switch.


"Johannes H Andersen" <johs@asrswonacxvusoxsizefitternmcoewxer.com>
wrote in message
news:411E4101.A4B32FBB@asrswonacxvusoxsizefitternmcoewxer.com...
>
>
> JAD wrote:
> >
> > <,The recommendation from Crucial is to keep the power cord in
place
> > when>
> >
> > your nuts and so is crucial (if in fact that's what they
said).....
> > power cord in, with power running to it and no switch on the PSU
means
> > power to the memory and to the PCI slots, plugging a mod in when
this
> > is the scenario will bust that mod.
>
> hence no power to motherboard at all.
> The front switch may be connected to the motherboard, but all it
does
> is connecting/disconnecting two wires that comes out of the PSU,
this
> signalling the PSU to go ON/OFF. So no nuts today I'm afraid.
>
> > Unplugged with a grounded metal strip on the bench where you
would, if
> > you were inclined to, attach a anti-static bands clip to. I
haven't
> > worn a ASWB for years now.....never lost a component yet. But then
I
> > don't work in a carpeted, dry environment, on top of a metal table
> > with a plastic top. ;^)
>
> Yup, as long as everything is grounded.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

Johannes H Andersen wrote:

>
> JAD wrote:
>
>><,The recommendation from Crucial is to keep the power cord in place
>>when>
>>
>>your nuts and so is crucial (if in fact that's what they said).....
>>power cord in, with power running to it and no switch on the PSU means
>>power to the memory and to the PCI slots, plugging a mod in when this
>>is the scenario will bust that mod.
>
>
> Obviously the PSU is in OFF state, hence no power to motherboard at all.

Unfortunately, your 'hence' is simply not true. When in the "OFF state" an
ATX PSU is still providing standby voltages to the motherboard, unless you
pull the plug or have a mains switch on the PSU itself.

> The front switch may be connected to the motherboard, but all it does
> is connecting/disconnecting two wires that comes out of the PSU, this
> signalling the PSU to go ON/OFF. So no nuts today I'm afraid.

Ever wonder how it could 'signal' the PSU to come ON if there were no power
for it to do the 'signaling' with?

>>Unplugged with a grounded metal strip on the bench where you would, if
>>you were inclined to, attach a anti-static bands clip to. I haven't
>>worn a ASWB for years now.....never lost a component yet. But then I
>>don't work in a carpeted, dry environment, on top of a metal table
>>with a plastic top. ;^)
>
>
> Yup, as long as everything is grounded.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

"JAD" <Kapasitor@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:10hse9llqt98d7d@corp.supernews.com...

> your nuts and so is crucial (if in fact that's what they said).....
> power cord in, with power running to it and no switch on the PSU means
> power to the memory and to the PCI slots, plugging a mod in when this
> is the scenario will bust that mod.

Hmmm, I often drop bits in and out of my PC iwth it plugged in, and on on
the mains and switch on the back (although obviously off on the front case
switch). True, it's not clever, but I'm very forgetful. And so far, the
number of things I've made go pop as a result of this?

Absolutely ah heck all.

Note, I'm not advising people to go fitting things with power running
through the mobo, just commenting my experience has been it isn't a problem.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

There has been a lot of comment here to the effect that you need to
chain yourself to your work before daring to let thoughts of opening the
carton containing memory, cards, etc. OK, I exaggerate; and I do agree
that precautions should be taken against static, and machines totally
powered down before plugging things in. The danger is not just of
totally destroying things (not too serious, just replace), but of
causing more subtle damage which doesn't show up immediately.

But we've all seen fairly careless handling of bare electronics, and
working on the innards of plugged-in ATX machines, with little trouble.

I am reminded of the book, years ago, about the development of a new DEC
machine ("The birth of a new machine" or something similar). There was a
desperate rush on, and everyone regularly plugged in and removed
ordinary DIL chips with no precautions. While CMOS chips may be more
static-sensitive than TTL, I don't know whether they are more vulnerable
to plugging in like this. My own experience is only of removing and
inserting PC BIOS chips into running machines (after a failed BIOS
reprogramming); never any trouble.

And there is a PCI standard designed to allow specially designed cards
to be plugged in and removed from a running machine (24/7/365.25 server,
typically).

I don't want to take the risk, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to
find that (un)plugging ordinary PCI cards live, and other things, are
only slightly hazardous.

On the other hand, I have heard of PC motherboards that were blown by
plugging in a keyboard (DIM connector).

I'm not advocating that these things should be done, but don't feel that
you have necessarily caused irreversible damage if you make a mistake.

Best wishes,
--
Michael Salem