Question Unsure about CPU upgrade path AMD/Intel

[JSC-34581]

Hello all.

I know that these questions have been coming thick and fast with recent events, but every example is different, so hopefully people aren't exhausted with the same question. I'm looking for some opinions about the upgrade path for a new build I'm contemplating and I'm really torn between going AMD or Intel.

My current rig is an aging but to this point highly reliable one:
Win10
Intel i7-10700K
AsRock Z490 Extreme4 mobo
32 GB 4000MHz DDR4-RAM
RTX 3070ti

It's still a decent enough rig but I'm finding the CPU is reaching that stage where bottlenecks limit further upgrades more than anything else does.

I have had huge success with Intel in the past, but I was going to upgrade to the 14900K and relevant mobo, shortly after their release when the issues with those SKUS arose and put me off. I know that Intel rolled out a supposed fix, but honestly, I don't have much faith in that given my research. So I kicked the can down the road.

I decided to wait for the launch of the 285K but I have to be honest, I am massively underwhelmed for the gaming performance and that is probably 60-80% of my activity. I do prefer CPU intensive gaming so the CPU matters for me. The fact that Intel has now come out and said that optimisation for the new chips is sub-optimal and is causing lower than expected performance just does not inspire me with confidence given the previous gens issues. I just don't feel confident that Intel's latest offerings are going to be as reliable and "smooth" as they once were.

So for the first time, I'm considering AMD, specifically the 9800X3D. Problem on that front is that I know next to nothing about AMD chips as I've always stayed with Intel. Add to that the low availability and the inevitable scalping, meaning stock isn't likely to be available too soon. I'm also given to understand that the 9800X3D is restricted to DDR5 memory, availability of which is limited just now, is that correct? I'd also be sticking with Nvidia, intending to upgrade to either a 4080 super once the the 5000 series launches and I have no idea how they play with AMD CPU's.

Would anyone mind sharing their thoughts here as I am uncharacteristically dithering and could use some fresh perspectives. Budget isn't a huge concern, but I'd prefer to avoid paying over the odds for something that is substandard compared to the competition and I'm feeling like that is Intel's offering that is substandard right now.

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

I would go with AMD, as Intel have resting on their laurels for far too long and forgotten how to make a comeback, no offence. You're spot on with the 9800X3D if you're only gaming though I think the prices of them have shot up since NDA's had lifted. The Ryzen 7800X3D is still a very capable system. Pair that with a B650 chipset motherboard and ram that's got AMD's E.X.P.O advertised on them to run at DDR5-6000MHz, and you're set.

If you're recycling the PSU, what is the make, model and age of the unit?

availability of which is limited just now, is that correct?
DDR5 memory isn't limited in supply.

 

[JSC-34581]

Thanks for the welcome!

I'm defintely leaning towards AMD at this stage. I don't think that Intel are reliable these days.

I'd like to aim for the 9800X3D, but I'll take a look at the 7800X3D and compare.
I noticed that mobo's for AMD came with the B and X classifications. Not being an AMD user before, I haven't delved too much into the difference. Is there much of one?
After posting my question I did actually do a deep dive into memory availability and specs and realised the DDR5 is quite abundant! But thank you for confirming for me.

My PSU is an old Corsair AX860 Platinum I bought back in 2013, I think and the current rig is the second system it has been in. Whilst it has been a really good PSU and would probably last a few more years, 'm not confident it would have the capacity at this late stage of it's life to support the components in my new build. I might have to admit to myself that this isn't an upgrade at this point lol
I'll probably be looking to replace that with a mind towards a 1000w Platinum model. I haven't settled on brand yet, but I like Corsair. That said I did see Gigabyte PSU that had a LCD side display of power draw, gimmicky, I know but there is something appealing about being able see how much power is being drawn by the system that way.

Do you know if Lian Li AIO water coolers are any good? I'm currently using an NZXT but I hate the software it uses.

Thank you for your response!

 

[Lutfij]

I wouldn't recycle that PSU into the new build, unless you want an excuse to buy something else after the entire system conks out.

I also think you prematurely selected my post as the Best Answer. Removing that tag to allow for this thread to progress.

 

[JSC-34581]

I marked your response as the answer, because I'm pretty much convinced to switch to AMD at this stage. I don't see any advantage to sticking with Intel.

In my further digging, I learned that AMD boards have the same chipset classifications as Intel, so Z & X series being overclockable, should have guessed that really... except some B series AMD boards can overclock too... I'm also getting the impression that with most AMD CPU's, people recommend using AMD's PBO?

I'll definitely not be using the PSU in the new build. It's been a great PSU but it undoubtedly doesn't provide the full 860W at this stage and would give up the ghost under the stress of a series a 4000 Nvidia card, modern mobo, new CPU and associated memory! 💀

 

[Danra]

Hello all.

I know that these questions have been coming thick and fast with recent events, but every example is different, so hopefully people aren't exhausted with the same question. I'm looking for some opinions about the upgrade path for a new build I'm contemplating and I'm really torn between going AMD or Intel.

My current rig is an aging but to this point highly reliable one:
Win10
Intel i7-10700K
AsRock Z490 Extreme4 mobo
32 GB 4000MHz DDR4-RAM
RTX 3070ti

It's still a decent enough rig but I'm finding the CPU is reaching that stage where bottlenecks limit further upgrades more than anything else does.

I have had huge success with Intel in the past, but I was going to upgrade to the 14900K and relevant mobo, shortly after their release when the issues with those SKUS arose and put me off. I know that Intel rolled out a supposed fix, but honestly, I don't have much faith in that given my research. So I kicked the can down the road.

I decided to wait for the launch of the 285K but I have to be honest, I am massively underwhelmed for the gaming performance and that is probably 60-80% of my activity. I do prefer CPU intensive gaming so the CPU matters for me. The fact that Intel has now come out and said that optimisation for the new chips is sub-optimal and is causing lower than expected performance just does not inspire me with confidence given the previous gens issues. I just don't feel confident that Intel's latest offerings are going to be as reliable and "smooth" as they once were.

So for the first time, I'm considering AMD, specifically the 9800X3D. Problem on that front is that I know next to nothing about AMD chips as I've always stayed with Intel. Add to that the low availability and the inevitable scalping, meaning stock isn't likely to be available too soon. I'm also given to understand that the 9800X3D is restricted to DDR5 memory, availability of which is limited just now, is that correct? I'd also be sticking with Nvidia, intending to upgrade to either a 4080 super once the the 5000 series launches and I have no idea how they play with AMD CPU's.

Would anyone mind sharing their thoughts here as I am uncharacteristically dithering and could use some fresh perspectives. Budget isn't a huge concern, but I'd prefer to avoid paying over the odds for something that is substandard compared to the competition and I'm feeling like that is Intel's offering that is substandard right now.

I worked in the computer hardware field for over 30 years and continue to stay abreast of it. Intel 13th and 14th generation problems were the result of contamination in the clean room during creation. That contamination caused failures. 14th generation made after Intel admitted the problem have not suffered the problems with earlier 13th and 14th generation CPUs. For example, I purchased an i7 14700K in January 2024 from Micro Center and have never had a problem with it. Upon installation, I highly overclocked it, checked for stability and power draw then immediately reduced the power to the CPU in BIOS. It has been flawless since.

Regarding AMD's newest generation have been found to be much faster in gaming than Intel's newest CPU. However, the Intel CPU outperforms AMD with a great many non-gaming apps.

You mentioned that you had concerns with the price of DDR 5. The cost has come down by a large margin since first released.

Can you tell us what programs have yielded CPU bottlenecks with your current Intel CPU?

I know that I am late in responding and you may have already purchased an AMD replacement. Let us know here your new performance findings.

 

[JSC-34581]

Can you tell us what programs have yielded CPU bottlenecks with your current Intel CPU?

Primarily, CPU intensive strategy titles, particularly those from Paradox, including but not limited to Stellaris, Crusader Kings 3 et al. It doesn't help that these games don't utilise multiple cores, or when they do, they do so inefficiently. The games perform well initially but my CPU seems to bottleneck as games get bogged down with calculations and the number of things to track increases. Irony being, that I've known other people with worse CPU's but don't rely on hyperthreading, to do better.

Which of course, does suggest that the new Intel CPU's might pull ahead in this case for me, as they are supposed to be faster on a single core basis. But I'm just not certain how that is panning out in practice at this point as it's a little too soon to tell.

I have not yet taken the plunge, partly because the 9800X3D is currently out of stock most places, but I'm building a list of potential components with AMD being the core of the build.

Given the supply issues with AMD right now, I'm also happy to wait awhile to see what Nvidia announce in January regarding RTX 5000 series. I'm pretty sure I will want to get a 4080 (super or not I'm undecided, increases in performance seem negligible) at this stage, I'm curious to see what gains might be had with the 5000 series and what impact they will have on prices for 4000 series cards.

 

[geofelt]

Do you have a budget?

Going from Intel to AMD, there is a learning curve. Particularly as to ram compatibility.
On balance, you get similar price/performance in either camp.

Expect issues when buying the latest tech, either 9800X3d or core 285.
Most will be fixed with bios updates.

Your games are cpu centric and depend on single thread performance.
Passmark rates the 9800X3d single thread performance at 4429. Your 10700K is about 3080.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+9800X3D&id=6344
By comparison, the ultra 285 rates at 5110:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+Ultra+9+285K&id=6296
Ultra 265 is 4873:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+Ultra+7+265K&id=6326

If budget is an issue, the i9-14900K is 4736:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?id=5717&cpu=Intel+Core+i9-14900K
And, your DDR4 ram works well.
The warranty on 13/14th gen has been expanded.

 

[JSC-34581]

No restriction in terms of budget.

Going from Intel to AMD, there is a learning curve. Particularly as to ram compatibility.
On balance, you get similar price/performance in either camp.

As I am learning! I've not felt this out of my depth in quite a while. I'm going to do plenty of research before making the switch. Current supply and incoming hardware developments mean that not only do I not need to rush, it might be beneficial to take my time.

Your games are cpu centric and depend on single thread performance.
Passmark rates the 9800X3d single thread performance at 4429. Your 10700K is about 3080.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+9800X3D&id=6344
By comparison, the ultra 285 rates at 5110:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+Ultra+9+285K&id=6296

I thought as much. I think I'm still coming down on the AMD side at the moment, because I will inevitably play other games that would benefit from the 9800x3d's clear advantage in GPU reliant gaming. The 285 was really shocking for gaming performance. I know that Intel has suggested that optimisation of software is the prime culprit here, but I think I want to wait and see what happens when the release any updates. I think someone said something about December for that to drop.

Maybe the figures will improve after then. There will be more home user benchmarks out for the 9800x3d by that point too, so I think that is another reason not to rush, I guess.

Going from Intel to AMD, there is a learning curve. Particularly as to ram compatibility.

Is AMD that much more particular? Lutfij mentioned E.X.P.O and I've run across the term a couple of times when browsing, but I'm not very familiar with it.

 

[geofelt]

EXPO is the amd equivalent to xmp.
xmp capability extracts ram settings from the ram stick itself.
It is a short hand to specifying the ram settings.
Some ram kits will be labelled as EXPO capable.
Unlike Intel, AMD is tightly tied to ram speed for performance.
My best advice on amd ram is to buy only a supported kit for your cpu/mobo combo.
Either from the motherboard ram qvl list for your processor, or a kit that is explicitly supported by the ram vendor ram selection app.
Many amd motherboard bios updates are related to ram compatibility.

 

[JSC-34581]

That is very good to know. Thank you.

 

[JSC-34581]

I did debate asking this question in the relevant subforum but in the interests of avoiding clutter. If mods/admins want me to make this question it's own thread in the relevant sub forum, let me know.

I have been checking out some Mobo/memory combos, assuming I'm going to go with AM5 for this build.

I've had some good experiences with ASRock mobos and was looking at the:
ASRock AMD X870 Riptide WiFi AM5 DDR5 PCIe 5.0
It's reasonably priced with a good selection of features that meet my needs. I really wanted to start out with Corsair memory Dimms, specifically:
CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 6000MHz CL30 AMD EXPO (CMH64GX5M2B6000Z30)
But checking Asrocks website and the mobos QVL, these dimms aren't on that list... yet.
But the same brand, lower 5600MHz, higher latency CL40 dimms, are. Would it be a bad idea to grab that memory if it isn't listed on the boards QVL? I know that the 9800x3d has a max official memory speed of 5600, but I'd be looking for as low a latency as possible. With Intel I wouldn't have thought twice about it but if AMD is more fussy, I'm not so sure.
An alternative option with similar specs would be:
G.Skill DDR5 64GB PC 6000 CL30
G.Skill are a good brand and this one is listed on the QVL. Both also use the hynix chipset which I'm given to understand is preferable. My only concern with those is the height of the dimms. I've had problems with G.Skill dimms that end up getting in the way of AIO mounting, which is really frustrating to discover during the build. That and they are more expensive, for the same thing.

On a side note, I'm seeing a memory brand called Kingston. They weren't around when I was last shopping for memory, anyone know if they are a decent brand. Some of their kit looks a little cheap, but appearances can be deceiving.

 

[SkyNetRising]

Primarily, CPU intensive strategy titles, particularly those from Paradox, including but not limited to Stellaris, Crusader Kings 3 et al. It doesn't help that these games don't utilise multiple cores, or when they do, they do so inefficiently.

If a game is utilizing cores inefficiently, do you think cpu upgrade will change that?
LOL Probably not.

I've known other people with worse CPU's but don't rely on hyperthreading, to do better.

You can experiment that yourself.
You can turn off hyperthreadding in BIOS and see, if that changes performance (if at all).

BTW - what game resolution /DLSS settings are you using ingame?

 

[JSC-34581]

If a game is utilizing cores inefficiently, do you think cpu upgrade will change that?
LOL Probably not.

Yeah, Paradox game engine was never designed with multi-core or hyperthreading in mind. They've made some efforts on this front but. Meh. It's Paradox. The point I make is that I've known other people with CPU's with fewer cores and no hyperthreading, to get better performance because individual cores have been better at some of the heavy lifting. Some time back, there was a semi involved process, where you could switch which core a game would be using with multi-core, to see if you got some better performance. But I'm not much interested in fiddling around with that.

BTW - what game resolution /DLSS settings are you using ingame?

Depends on the game, but nothing fancy. 1080p usually. These aren't games known for their looks and I don't play them for the bling. I don't generally use DLSS in these titles.

It's worth noting, I'm not upgrading solely because of these games, but it doesn't hurt that I can expect some improvement in gameplay as a result of an upgrade.