Question Upgrade to Ryzen 7 5800x or Ryzen 7 5800x3D

[Karadjgne]

Bah. There's Always something 'coming out' in a few months time. If it's not Intel, it's amd, or nvidia or amd gpu and by the time that's all 'out' it's time to repeat the cycle.

If the monitor can't use it, the fps above the refresh is pointless for 90% of gamers. If you have a 144Hz monitor, 200fps or 300fps is moot, totally. So benchmarks showing more performance for one cpu over another is wasted if you look at just the numbers. That's not what the benchmark is for. It's only there to show the relative positioning at the resolution/details provided, so consumers can judge what their needs will be.

Most fps gamers have no need for anything stronger than a 12600k/12700 or a 5700x/5800x. Mmorpg online games are slightly different as they've got a use for core counts over fast paced shooters, but those games are impossible to judge because there's no consistency in loads, it changes depending on the amount of other users online.

If the 3060ti can only put 80fps on screen at 1440p, then a 12400 putting out 100fps will do the exact same job as a 12900k putting out 200fps. No tangible difference. You get 80fps either way. There will be a tangible difference if the gpu could put out 150fps, comparing those same 2 cpus.

So whether you need a 5700x or 5800x or 5800x3D is totally different to whether you want a specific cpu, based on its performance in a benchmark.

Figure out exactly what you need. Then decide if more is going to be of any value.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I’m spoiled I liked having high fps But that said a 5800x is enough now. How about in a year or so? Anyway I can’t complain. My current pc probably started life with zen 1 back in about 2018. So I’ve added to it. Now I’ve got a 5900x, 16gb of ram, though I’m getting a good deal on a 32gb 3200 kit for 80 bucks, and a 6700xt all running on my asrock b350 board. I’ve definitely gotten mileage out of this rig.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

I will say that if you are not the type to upgrade frequently, the 5800x3D will likely perform acceptably until further into the distant future.

The last time someone did something like this, the performance remained within 10% of CPUs 5 generations and 6 years afterwards. And that's when handicapped with DDR3, with the extra cache only being slow DRAM instead of SRAM.

Cache matters, especially as memory latency hasn't improved since the days of DDR1 so the CPU is now waiting thousands of clock cycles for the first word instead of hundreds if it has to go to RAM (DDR1-400 at 2-2-2 timings had the same 10ns latency that DDR5-4800 would have at 24-24-24, but you know 40-40-40 is way more common. At the same time CPU clock speeds have climbed to up to 5.8GHz so things have got much worse + ever more improvements must be done to improve hitrate and prediction)

I indeed do not upgrade frequently, maybe every 2-3 years or more I'd upgrade but if I did however get the 5800X would that hinder me later on?

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

I indeed do not upgrade frequently, maybe every 2-3 years or more I'd upgrade but if I did however get the 5800X would that hinder me later on?

Karadjgne is right. You need to see what resolution you will be playing at and what your GPU will support at that resolution.

I suspect that the 5800X vs the X3D will not be the bottleneck, your GPU will be. The money you save for the 5800X is large enough and the performance difference is small enough that by the time you notice that the CPU itself is holding you back, it will be time to upgrade anyway. An upgrade period of 2 or 3 years is very short, you will not notice the CPU bottleneck in most gaming use cases. Now if you were going to hold the PC for 5 or 6 years, the X3D makes more sense. Don't try to future-proof, consumers are really bad at guessing what the actual hardware use cases will be in 3 or 5 or 10 years.

Get the 5800X and put the extra money into your future GPU budget for 2023/2024/2025. Or maybe get a bigger NVME drive.

I personally would buy some I-bonds and make 6-9% on that money for a year.

Just my opinion on this.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

The 5800x is enough now but if you are keeping it 3 years I’d consider getting the stronger cpu. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115544046254?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=IwQO2gcBROK&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=b1QoO_yZSxW&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Not a bad deal

 

[Daniel Youssef]

Karadjgne is right. You need to see what resolution you will be playing at and what your GPU will support at that resolution.

I suspect that the 5800X vs the X3D will not be the bottleneck, your GPU will be. The money you save for the 5800X is large enough and the performance difference is small enough that by the time you notice that the CPU itself is holding you back, it will be time to upgrade anyway. An upgrade period of 2 or 3 years is very short, you will not notice the CPU bottleneck in most gaming use cases. Now if you were going to hold the PC for 5 or 6 years, the X3D makes more sense. Don't try to future-proof, consumers are really bad at guessing what the actual hardware use cases will be in 3 or 5 or 10 years.

Get the 5800X and put the extra money into your future GPU budget for 2023/2024/2025. Or maybe get a bigger NVME drive.

I personally would buy some I-bonds and make 6-9% on that money for a year.

Just my opinion on this.

I see, seems like I'll go for the 5800X then makes more sense, the increase of price between this version and the X3D is too much considering it's only something like 20-25% performance, okay I've got another question not processor related, since I'm getting also a mb I was thinking about b550? and the rams, I've got crucial 1x16 ddr4 3200Mhz, should I sell it and go for 2x8 or wouldn't it make much of a diff?

 

[Karadjgne]

B550, no worries. Some parts are pcie4.0, most others are pcie3.0, which is fine unless you have an absolute need for a bunch of pcie4.0 stuff (there isn't much other than storage and gpu, which is already covered).

It's a Ryzen. Definite performance uplift with using dual channel anything. It doubles the possible bandwidth. Like using 2 hands to lift something instead of 1 hand.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

B550, no worries. Some parts are pcie4.0, most others are pcie3.0, which is fine unless you have an absolute need for a bunch of pcie4.0 stuff (there isn't much other than storage and gpu, which is already covered).

It's a Ryzen. Definite performance uplift with using dual channel anything. It doubles the possible bandwidth. Like using 2 hands to lift something instead of 1 hand.

Well after everything that's been discussed here's my buying list, anything to change or switch ?

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

I have to tell myself, those are not crazy prices, the pound is very close to the dollar now.

You will want a 32 GB kit of RAM, I find that Chrome with two dozen tabs and a few other apps open, like a second browser and a torrent client and Steam, etc, etc quickly goes up to 14 GB of use. If I was running a game and wanted to stream it or if I had dual monitors and was watching Youtube or looking up hints/cheats/tips while playing, I would want 32 GB of RAM.

Which M.2 drive are you considering?

 

[Daniel Youssef]

I have to tell myself, those are not crazy prices, the pound is very close to the dollar now.

You will want a 32 GB kit of RAM, I find that Chrome with two dozen tabs and a few other apps open, like a second browser and a torrent client and Steam, etc, etc quickly goes up to 14 GB of use. If I was running a game and wanted to stream it or if I had dual monitors and was watching Youtube or looking up hints/cheats/tips while playing, I would want 32 GB of RAM.

Which M.2 drive are you considering?

I already have an NVME M.2 , it's XPG GAMMIX S11 Pro

are you extremely sure about the RAMs thing? I always have 1 game open and maybe some tabs or something in the background but nothing crazy do I really need 32 currently?

Edit : I already have 1x16 GB crucial ram 3200 mhz, if I do get those 2x8 will it work with 3 RAMs? (2x8, 1x16) ? or do I need to have 2x16

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

I already have an NVME M.2 , it's XPG GAMMIX S11 Pro

are you extremely sure about the RAMs thing? I always have 1 game open and maybe some tabs or something in the background but nothing crazy do I really need 32 currently?

Edit : I already have 1x16 GB crucial ram 3200 mhz, if I do get those 2x8 will it work with 3 RAMs? (2x8, 1x16) ? or do I need to have 2x16

Oh ok, that is a fine M.2 drive.

You don't NEED 32 GB, I would just aim for that myself since you are upgrading your PC. Mind you, I play Squad which is pretty demanding on memory as the maps are several km long and wide, so there are a lot of assets to load into memory. This is optional.

I would not mix and match RAM at all. Definitely never different companies and never different speeds or timings. Instead of getting two new 2x8 RAM, why don't you get another 16 GB Crucial RAM 3200 Mhz (the exact same product) to get to 32 GB? Or sell your RAM and get 2x8GB if you do not want 32 GB.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

Oh ok, that is a fine M.2 drive.

You don't NEED 32 GB, I would just aim for that myself since you are upgrading your PC. Mind you, I play Squad which is pretty demanding on memory as the maps are several km long and wide, so there are a lot of assets to load into memory. This is optional.

I would not mix and match RAM at all. Definitely never different companies and never different speeds or timings. Instead of getting two new 2x8 RAM, why don't you get another 16 GB Crucial RAM 3200 Mhz (the exact same product) to get to 32 GB? Or sell your RAM and get 2x8GB if you do not want 32 GB.

Okay considering upgrading to 32, I'm not sure I remember the exact same model and everything with my ram but I do remember its crucial and 3200mhz 1x16, I cant really find a similar one on amazon germany so would you say this is good ? https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Corsair-Vengeance-3200MHz-Dynamic-Lighting/dp/B09C6D9CH7/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=1x16gb&qid=1664546244&s=computers&sr=1-5


Edit: there seems to be a problem on my end, the ram is 3000mhz max speed I believe? model part number: BLS16G4D30AESB.M16FE

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

Okay considering upgrading to 32, I'm not sure I remember the exact same model and everything with my ram but I do remember its crucial and 3200mhz 1x16, I cant really find a similar one on amazon germany so would you say this is good ? https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Corsair-Vengeance-3200MHz-Dynamic-Lighting/dp/B09C6D9CH7/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=1x16gb&qid=1664546244&s=computers&sr=1-5


Edit: there seems to be a problem on my end, the ram is 3000mhz max speed I believe? model part number: BLS16G4D30AESB.M16FE

If you want 32 GB, I would just get new RAM, like https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232091?Item=N82E16820232091 for $92 (USA price) or https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-25600-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07RW6Z692/ for $90 (USA price).

You will have to find the exact RAM model and buy that if you want to use your 1x16 GB. Or you can just use your 1x16 GB RAM and not buy new RAM for the short-term although that will bottleneck because you will not be on dual-channel memory.

 

[Daniel Youssef]

If you want 32 GB, I would just get new RAM, like https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232091?Item=N82E16820232091 for $92 (USA price) or https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-25600-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07RW6Z692/ for $90 (USA price).

You will have to find the exact RAM model and buy that if you want to use your 1x16 GB. Or you can just use your 1x16 GB RAM and not buy new RAM for the short-term although that will bottleneck because you will not be on dual-channel memory..

Well RAM aside, I think I'll be getting 2x8 currently, for Liquid cooling will this be compatible with my case? https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Hydro-240mm-Liquid-Cooler/dp/B07B68T46Q
I have this case https://www.bitfenix.com/products/chassis/eatx/nova-mesh-tg/nova-mesh-tg-specs/

I had it in my order then cancelled it because I didn't really check if it was compatible with my case(dumb me), anyways this is everything I'll be getting, maybe the cooler I'll have to buy it from my local stores

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Should give a nice upgrade for you.

 

[Karadjgne]

If you want 32 GB, I would just get new RAM, like https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232091?Item=N82E16820232091 for $92 (USA price) or https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Vengeance-PC4-25600-Desktop-Memory/dp/B07RW6Z692/ for $90 (USA price).

You will have to find the exact RAM model and buy that if you want to use your 1x16 GB. Or you can just use your 1x16 GB RAM and not buy new RAM for the short-term although that will bottleneck because you will not be on dual-channel memory.

No. Doesn't make any difference. There isn't any exact same ram, even if it's the same brand, color heatsink, speed, timings, whatever, it's different. You've got the same chances of working or not mixing a totally different brand as you do with the same stick. There's a reason why sticks come factory tested in a kit, as they are from the same silicon batch. Mixing ram is mixing ram, period.

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

No. Doesn't make any difference. There isn't any exact same ram, even if it's the same brand, color heatsink, speed, timings, whatever, it's different. You've got the same chances of working or not mixing a totally different brand as you do with the same stick. There's a reason why sticks come factory tested in a kit, as they are from the same silicon batch. Mixing ram is mixing ram, period.

Well, my long-held myths are being busted. So to be clear, if I buy two identical kits of RAM, I can not mix and match them because for all intents and purposes, they are different enough to be the same as mixing any other kit of RAM? Is RAM mixing an actual issue in modern hardware or was this a problem from earlier decades?

 

[Karadjgne]

Okay Lucy, lemme 'splain. 😂

Ram is a pcb with some chunks of silicon welded to it. That silicon is punched from a big sheet, as is the sequential serial number and so forth. Silicon isn't pure, at best its like 99.x pure and has a certain amount of impurities. They can be anything from lead to gold to aluminium to iron to any other metal or mineral impurities. So having most sequential or close numbered ram comes from the same sheet, has the same impurities etc, so is the most compatible.

The factory tests those ram in kits, 2 or 4 or 8 etc and most kits will be fully sequential, but occasionally there's a chunk of stuff, or a bubble or other reason why 1 specific stick is bunk, so the factory will keep testing sticks until it gets the required kit size. All those kits get lumped into a giant container and shipped.

At the store, chances of 2 kits being fully sequential are abysmally small to none. Several thousand kits got mixed. So you can buy the same sticks, same speeds, same brand, color, model, heatsink, voltage etc and almost guaranteed they'll not be from the same sheet of silicon.

The impurities affect Secondary and Tertiary timings the most, which both happen to have a big input to Windows stability. What you see on the outside isn't what's on the inside. An SkHynix OEM Corsair LPX 3200MHz C16 1.35v is essentially the same as a SkHynix OEM G-skill 3200MHz C16 1.35v, both being different sheets of silicon manufactured in the same plant, by the same people, with a different piece of tin heatshield and paint job stuck on the outside.

This has always been an issue, to some extent, but the looser the timings, the more 'forgiveness' there is. But then figure nobody really intends to buy 3200MHz C22 ram, when C16 gets far better performance, C14 better still.

There's only 3 possible outcomes of mixing ram. It works great out of the box. It works, after some adjustments to various degrees or settings. It doesn't work. And that's the real issue. You have absolutely no idea or clue which of the 3 you'll get. Not until You test personally. So you order another stick, and it fails. Now you spend hours seeing if adjustments fix the issue, but still fails. Now you have to RMA or return the ram. How many times are you planning on spending waiting for ram in the mail, testing ram for compatibility and how long before Amazon gets mad at the amount of RMA's and tells you no more.

Nothing wrong with the individual ram, it works fine, just isn't compatible with your original stick. That's the gamble. You could do that 100 times or never, simply are at the total mercy of the Silicon Lottery.

So Sage advice is just buy what you need, in 1 kit, as that's guaranteed by the factory to be compatible, as is, no tinkering.

 

[GasLighterHavoc]

That's an excellent write-up, thanks for the explanation. What is considered to be adequate RAM testing, for a single kit? I have mainly used MemTest for 24 hours for my past builds but am not sure what is considered to be best practice these days and if 24 hours is overkill or not.