Question Upgrading old Socket 478 and Socket 775 motherboards ?

[axiomkhan]

Hi, I am learning retro hardware as I go. So I have two old intel motherboards both with P4 CPUs and based on information I gathered online, out of the two motherboards one is Socket 478 P4SD 865G 323091-001, 305374-001 with 865G chipset I believe, and the second is Socket LGA 775 D945GTP, D945PLM with 945G Chipset. I am looking to upgrade these to their max hardware that they can take and support in terms of best combinations for CPU and GPU and well as maximum RAM and Storage.

I need to know what options do I have with these. I would like the following details to confirm for both the motherboards:

1. Best Processors for both the motherboards which can be installed without running into compatibility problems with the rest of the hardware.
2. RAM type and speeds, max RAM supported, how much of RAM per slot.
3. Storage, I have traditional HDDs with both motherboards installed currently, but I was wondering if I can install SSDs in both of them. The socket 775 has 4 SATA ports. About the socket 478, I read online it also supports SATA SSDs. Is that true?

4. Are the drivers available anywhere online for these boards and their hardware.

I would appreciate help from the TH community as I am new to learning Computer Hardware. Thanks!

 

[SkyNetRising]

1. Best Processors for both the motherboards which can be installed without running into compatibility problems with the rest of the hardware.
2. RAM type and speeds, max RAM supported, how much of RAM per slot.
3. Storage, I have traditional HDDs with both motherboards installed currently, but I was wondering if I can install SSDs in both of them. The socket 775 has 4 SATA ports. About the socket 478, I read online it also supports SATA SSDs. Is that true?
4. Are the drivers available anywhere online for these boards and their hardware.

1., 4. Easy - google <chipset name> + <some motherboard manufacturer name>.
Like "865G 478 MSI" or "945 775 Asrock".
And read support documentation or user manual (whatever is available).

2. Some boards with these chipsets support DDR, some support DDR2.
This is motherboard specific. You have to double check with your specific motherboard.

3. You can use any 2.5" SATA SSD, if your specific board has SATA connectors onboard.
Usually they have at least couple of those.

 

[SkyNetRising]

out of the two motherboards one is Socket 478 P4SD 865G 323091-001, 305374-001 with 865G chipset I believe, and
the second is Socket LGA 775 D945GTP, D945PLM with 945G Chipset.

BTW - you should be able to find some info by googling those specific strings.
478 P4SD 865G
775 D945GTP
775 D945PLM

Note - Intel has discontinued any support for hardware this old. You will not find any official documents from Intel itself. But somebody else may have saved it on web somewhere.
945 chipset boards seem to be from Intel.
865 chipset board seems to be from Asus.

 

[axiomkhan]

1., 4. Easy - google <chipset name> + <some motherboard manufacturer name>.
Like "865G MSI" or "945 Asrock".
And read support documentation or user manual (whatever is available).

2. Some boards with these chipsets support DDR, some support DDR2.
This is motherboard specific. You have to double check with your specific motherboard.

3. You can use any 2.5" SATA SSD, if your specific board has SATA connectors onboard.
Usually they have at least couple of those.

Thank you for your answers and the time, really appreciate it. I just found the user manuals for these that will make it easy. I hope everything work like charm.

BTW - you should be able to find some info by googling those specific strings.
478 P4SD 865G
775 D945GTP
775 D945PLM

Note - Intel has discontinued any support for hardware this old. You will not find any official documents from Intel itself. But somebody else may have saved it on web somewhere.
945 chipset boards seem to be from Intel.
865 chipset board seems to be from Asus.

I digged into this and it's fascinating how far we have come
I googled all the strings I had on those mobos and I got documents from "The Retro Web" and other sources. You're correct! 945 is from Intel and 865 is from Asus, they look a lot similar in colors however. I compared the design and layout of the each of the motherboards with their diagrams on the documents and guess what? they match exactly the same. This was a win win situation.

Thanks again for your insights, much appreciated!

 

[Misgar]

I have two old intel motherboards both with P4 CPUs

If you fit a 3.0GHz P4 processor, make sure your CPU heatsink/cooler can cope with the extra heat. Top of the range P4s dissipate over 100W if I remember correctly. I still have a bunch of P4 CPUs and mobos, but I don't think any of them are still mounted in computer cases (recycled for more recent mobos).

The socket 775 has 4 SATA ports. About the socket 478, I read online it also supports SATA SSDs. Is that true?

You'll probably find these ports are limited to SATA 1 speeds (1.5Gb/s).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA

If you can't get a SATA SSD to run, there are still plenty of SATA hard disks around. Take care when deciding on hard disk capacity. You might have problems if you fit a drive over 2TB (possibly less). 2.5in laptop SATA hard disk drives are cheap.

Prior to SATA, hard disks used 40/80-pin IDE. These drives are much rarer than SATA, but I still have some in my collection. You might find second hand IDE drives on eBay. Good luck. They might be 25 years old.

You probably won't get SSD TRIM working via the OS on such an old board, but I might be wrong. If the SSD controller supports internal TRIM ( in isolation from the OS) that's fine.

I'd try Windows XP first. Better chance of compatible drivers. Look on the mobo manufacturer's web site for drivers. You might get Vista and Windows 7 to run. My first Windows PC (80286, 2MB RAM) came with Windows 2, then 80386/486 builds with Windows 3.11. Earlier computers included 8086 and 6502.

 

[geofelt]

CPU-Z will identify the make/model of your motherboards.
Then use that to find the manufacturer's listing of that motherboard.
There should be a list of compatible processors and a list of bios updates that might be needed.
There will also be a ram compatibility list.
Old Intel motherboards were not too picky about ram.
The details should also list device compatibility.

On the SSD, do it.
2.5" sata ssd's will transform your performance, particularly for the C drive.

 

[axiomkhan]

If you fit a 3.0GHz P4 processor, make sure your CPU heatsink/cooler can cope with the extra heat. Top of the range P4s dissipate over 100W if I remember correctly. I still have a bunch of P4 CPUs and mobos, but I don't think any of them are still mounted in computer cases (recycled for more recent mobos).


You'll probably find these ports are limited to SATA 1 speeds (1.5Gb/s).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SATA

If you can't get a SATA SSD to run, there are still plenty of SATA hard disks around. Take care when deciding on hard disk capacity. You might have problems if you fit a drive over 2TB (possibly less). 2.5in laptop SATA hard disk drives are cheap.

Prior to SATA, hard disks used 40/80-pin IDE. These drives are much rarer than SATA, but I still have some in my collection. You might find second hand IDE drives on eBay. Good luck. They might be 25 years old.

You probably won't get SSD TRIM working via the OS on such an old board, but I might be wrong. If the SSD controller supports internal TRIM ( in isolation from the OS) that's fine.

I'd try Windows XP first. Better chance of compatible drivers. Look on the mobo manufacturer's web site for drivers. You might get Vista and Windows 7 to run. My first Windows PC (80286, 2MB RAM) came with Windows 2, then 80386/486 builds with Windows 3.11. Earlier computers included 8086 and 6502.

Thanks for indepth response. I am learning everyday. I managed to turn the system on but when Windows XP loading screen comes, with those blue bars going from left to right a few times, the system keep boot looping. I set the time and date in the BIOS. Took out the CMOS battery out and put it back in, pressed the CMOS reset button. Still no luck. Do I have to reinstall windows again since I took everything apart, cleaned and put everything back together. It recognizes HDD and RAM in the BIOS and I see green Led on the motherboard and the front panel.

 

[Misgar]

when Windows XP loading screen comes, with those blue bars going from left to right a few times, the system keep boot looping.

Do you have the BIOS set to AHCI? If so, find a different setting (probably IDE or Legacy). Do not use the RAID setting.

The bog standard XP installation disk does not support AHCI, hence when booting, XP gets part way through then encounters AHCI hardware, but doesn't have the driver.

https://superuser.com/questions/427340/how-to-enable-ahci-in-windows-xp-without-reinstalling

You can add the ahci drivers at installation time (the old press 'F6' and insert a floppy) or you can "slipstream" the drivers into the installation DVD with a bit of effort.

https://dfarq.homeip.net/dreaming-of-a-windows-xp-cd-that-recognizes-almost-all-known-hardware/

 

[JeffreyP55]

Hi, I am learning retro hardware as I go. So I have two old intel motherboards both with P4 CPUs and based on information I gathered online, out of the two motherboards one is Socket 478 P4SD 865G 323091-001, 305374-001 with 865G chipset I believe, and the second is Socket LGA 775 D945GTP, D945PLM with 945G Chipset. I am looking to upgrade these to their max hardware that they can take and support in terms of best combinations for CPU and GPU and well as maximum RAM and Storage.

I need to know what options do I have with these. I would like the following details to confirm for both the motherboards:

1. Best Processors for both the motherboards which can be installed without running into compatibility problems with the rest of the hardware.
2. RAM type and speeds, max RAM supported, how much of RAM per slot.
3. Storage, I have traditional HDDs with both motherboards installed currently, but I was wondering if I can install SSDs in both of them. The socket 775 has 4 SATA ports. About the socket 478, I read online it also supports SATA SSDs. Is that true?

4. Are the drivers available anywhere online for these boards and their hardware.

I would appreciate help from the TH community as I am new to learning Computer Hardware. Thanks!

I am bit of a hoarder when it comes to PC parts. Bordering on the ridiculous. Sans a few old video cards from the day, I recycled all 775 everything else.
I assume this build is more of a educational experience than a practical one, and is not in your PC lineup.
However, good luck.

 

[axiomkhan]

I am bit of a hoarder when it comes to PC parts. Bordering on the ridiculous. Sans a few old video cards from the day, I recycled all 775 everything else.
I assume this build is more of a educational experience than a practical one, and is not in your PC lineup.
However, good luck.

I understand, as a beginner learner of computer hardware, I am finding these for very cheap almost at no cost. So I thought maybe it is a good idea to get my hands dirty with these affordable ones before gaining experience and moving onto newer and newer mobos as they are a expensive.

Anyways, thanks for your insight on this. Appreciate it

 

[Misgar]

I understand, as a beginner learner of computer hardware, I am finding these for very cheap almost at no cost.

Not a bad idea. If things go wrong you haven't spent a fortune.

When I'm buying ancient computer hardware on eBay, i.e. second-hand CPUs, RAM, mobos, GPUs, hard disks, etc., I look for the term "Working", not "Spares or Repairs".

If your purchase doesn't work, you can get your money back. Sometimes you get lucky with "Untested" items, but if a "Tested" item is only a few dollars more, I prefer to play safe. If you're new to computing, how are you going to tell if a fault is due to hardware, software, or some setting you don't know about. Buy supposedly "working" kit.

Take great care if you're tempted to connect a Windows XP computer to the internet. It's a bad idea and could wreak havoc with all your personal data, online accounts, even identity theft if you get hacked, but it's your call.
https://windowsreport.com/antivirus-windows-xp-service-pack-3/

If you don't have XP Service Pack 3:
https://archive.org/details/WinXPProSP3x86

Safest option is to download any files you need for XP on an up-to-date Windows 10 or 11 PC.

Have fun.

 

[mentose]

Great project, I love bringing old stuff back to life! For the 478, you can aim for a Pentium 4 HT at 3.4 GHz, 2 GB DDR max. For the 775, a Core 2 Duo E6700 goes well, 4 GB DDR2 in 2x2 GB. Both manage 2.5" SATA SSDs, but the performance will be limited by the bus. The drivers can still be found via the Intel archives or sites like Station-Drivers.

 

[axiomkhan]

Not a bad idea. If things go wrong you haven't spent a fortune.

When I'm buying ancient computer hardware on eBay, i.e. second-hand CPUs, RAM, mobos, GPUs, hard disks, etc., I look for the term "Working", not "Spares or Repairs".

If your purchase doesn't work, you can get your money back. Sometimes you get lucky with "Untested" items, but if a "Tested" item is only a few dollars more, I prefer to play safe. If you're new to computing, how are you going to tell if a fault is due to hardware, software, or some setting you don't know about. Buy supposedly "working" kit.

Take great care if you're tempted to connect a Windows XP computer to the internet. It's a bad idea and could wreak havoc with all your personal data, online accounts, even identity theft if you get hacked, but it's your call.
https://windowsreport.com/antivirus-windows-xp-service-pack-3/

If you don't have XP Service Pack 3:
https://archive.org/details/WinXPProSP3x86

Safest option is to download any files you need for XP on an up-to-date Windows 10 or 11 PC.

Have fun.

Thanks man for the important points when buying from Ebay. I will definitely keep notes of things you said.

You are right! I will not be storing any sensitive information or data on these PCs. That's not a good idea with keeping security in mind. However, just relive nostalgia and play old games. And make videos on these motherboards as I have not seen many online.

I appreciate you for posting those links. I have a question, can windows XP be installed thorugh a USB pen drive?

 

[Misgar]

can windows XP be installed thorugh a USB pen drive?

It's been years since I last installed XP and all my old PCs have optical drives and a few have floppy drives too.

A quick search online shows it is possible to create a bootable USB pen drive using various methods.

I'd probably try the 32-bit version of Rufus (not the normal 64-bit version).
https://rufus.ie/en/

Check out the guide on Rufus here:
https://techgage.com/article/creating-bootable-windows-xp-7-8-flash-drive-installers/#3

You can incorporate Service Pack 3 into the original Windows XP ISO using a process known as "slipstreaming". After slipstreaming, you burn the modified XP ISO complete with SP3 to DVD or USB key.

Slipstreaming saves having to install SP3 at a later date, but for a single XP installation on one PC, you won't save any time. If you need to install XP many times or on multiple PCs, it makes sense to create a slipstreamed disk/key including SP3. Optionally, you can slipstream all the security updates too.
https://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tec...eam-an-xp-disc-with-sp3-and-all-other-updates

I don't think you'll be able to run Windows Update in XP and download security patches the "normal" way. Microsoft will have switched off the XP section of their update site.

In the past, I used Microsoft's WSUS (Windows Server Update Services) to download all the patches for XP and Windows 7 in "offline" mode. You end up with hundreds of security updates, then run the executables and patch XP (or 7) safely with the computer completely isolated from the internet.

Although WSUS support for XP has been "deprecated" (closed down) you can still download the files here:
https://archive.org/details/wsusoffline-wxp-enu_final

The security patch ISO for XP is a 3.2GB download. You can extract the contents if you don't want to burn the ISO to a disc or USB key. I use WinRAR to extract files from an ISO.
https://www.wikihow.com/Open-ISO-Files