Question usb 3.0 case front panel

[nicolodo]

USB headers/case

Hi I'm building a PC but I have a doubt about USB and the case/headers interface.

i have found various case that can be compatible with my needs BUT i have a big doubt.

In the spec of case is often reported a generic "front usb 3.0 port or front usb 3.0 type c port".
They don't specific if the A-sub port are USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x1, the same for usb-c port they don't specify "USB 3.2 Gen 1x2 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x2" .

Instead in the headers of mb is always indicated the usb GEN version.

From here my question:

If i connect the usb port of case generally referred to as USB 3.0 in the mb headers 19- pin (or Type E, it's the same) i will have the speed of usb spec on the header or not ?.

E.G
A case where it's spec is usb 3.2 gen 1x1, i connect the wires of case in the header of mb with the usb 3.2 gen 2x1 spec. I will have a speed of usb 3.2 gen 1x1 or gen 1x2 ?



I'm thinking that the producers of case Insert “random “ specifications of the usb 3 to appear better in the google seo search engine.

I don’t understand why the case producers not indicate the spec of their usb 3 port, maybe they are irrilevant?

Thx for the explanation.

 

[Aeacus]

In the spec of case is often reported a generic "front usb 3.0 port or front usb 3.0 type c port".

If it is listed as USB 3.0, then it is USB 3.0, regardless if it is type-A or type-C port. You still get USB 3.0 speeds of max 5 Gbps (625 MB/s).
If you like, you can name USB 3.0 as "USB 3.1 Gen 1" or "USB 3.2 Gen 1" if you so desire for fancier name, but in the end of the day, it still will be USB 3.0.

I don’t understand why the case producers not indicate the spec of their usb 3 port, maybe they are irrilevant?

They do list it, when USB port does match the speed of specific USB revision.

E.g Phanteks Enthoo Pro (stunning full-tower ATX case btw),
specs: https://phanteks.com/product/enthoo-pro-tg/#Specifications

Has clearly listed in the specs, that:
Front I/O
1x USB-C 3.2 Gen 2
2x USB 3.0
mic
reset
power

USB-C 3.2 Gen 2 = type-C port, with max speed of 10 Gbps (1250 MB/s or 1.2 GB/s)

They don't specific if the A-sub port are USB 3.2 Gen 1x1 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x1

USB type-A port can not be any faster than 5 Gbps (625 MB/s). This is the limit of type-A port. It can be named as "USB 3.1 Gen 1" or "USB 3.2 Gen 1" as well, but it still is just plain USB 3.0.

If you want faster speeds than 5 Gbps, then you have to have type-C port. Type-C port speeds can be: 5 Gbps, 10 Gbps, 20 Gbps and the latest (USB4) 40 Gbps.

If i connect the usb port of case generally referred to as USB 3.0 in the mb headers 19- pin (or Type E, it's the same) i will have the speed of usb spec on the header or not ?.

Internal USB 3.0 header, ending with 2x type-A ports, have the USB 3.0 speeds of 5 Gbps (625 MB/s).

A case where it's spec is usb 3.2 gen 1x1, i connect the wires of case in the header of mb with the usb 3.2 gen 2x1 spec. I will have a speed of usb 3.2 gen 1x1 or gen 1x2 ?

Speeds would be the max what USB port on PC case supports.
When MoBo internal type-C header is USB 3.2 Gen 2x1 = 10 Gbps
And when PC case type-C port is USB 3.2 Gen 1 = 5 Gbps
Then speeds will be 5 Gbps.

Btw, there is no such thing as USB 3.2 Gen 1x1.
Further reading: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3-2-explained

 

[nicolodo]

I think that you are missing one thing in your discussion.

A type A usb port can be USB 3.2 Gen 2x1. this is a port with a max bandwidth of 10gbps. You can check it also in the page of Wikipedia of usb 3.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0

So when the case producer indicates a generic usb 3.0 connection no one can know if it is gen 2x1 or gen 1x1, so if it have bandwidth of 5 or 10gbps.

Trust me many of the producers of case don’t indicate gen of type A port.

The speed of usb 3.0 type c port can be 10 or 20 gbps if they are respectively gen 1x2 or 2x2.

I know that this difference are Useless for most people but the difference for the front doors are for me fundamental for the use I have to make of it.

obviously the rear panel with usb port indicate with precision the gen version of usb 3.0

The problems are the spec of the usb of the case not the spec of mb.

I insert a little Summary table of port/version/speed of usb 3

https://imgur.com/a/PXWDqfo

View: https://imgur.com/a/PXWDqfo

 

[nicolodo]

I think that the front door usb 3 are generic because the bandwith and the relative gen version are useless because they are determinate from the header of mb.
In fact this port are passive hardware, and the port of usb 3 are the same for every version… is the clock and econding that determinate the gen version, but this is my Hypothesis, maybe I wrong, and maybe the wires of usb’s case are in some way Influential

 

[Aeacus]

A type A usb port can be USB 3.2 Gen 2x1. this is a port with a max bandwidth of 10gbps. You can check it also in the page of Wikipedia of usb 3.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_3.0

Those teal-colored type-A ports are very rare. I have yet to see one on front I/O of any PC case. And color coding type-A ports is a suggestion, rather than a requirement.

So when the case producer indicates a generic usb 3.0 connection no one can know if it is gen 2x1 or gen 1x1, so if it have bandwidth of 5 or 10gbps.

Trust me many of the producers of case don’t indicate gen of type A port.

USB 3.0 = 5 Gbps.

For it to be 2x1 (10 Gbps), the naming has to be USB 3.1. Just look the chart image you linked yourself. Type-A 10 Gbps port is named either: "USB 3.1", "USB 3.1 Gen2" or "USB 3.1 Gen 2x1" and should be teal-colored.


All-in-all, when in doubt, contact the PC case brand and ask them. Since after all, they made the PC case and they know the best.

 

[nicolodo]

So you think that if a case have a usb 3.2 gen 1x1 also you connect with a header gen 2x1 you are limited to 5 gbps. I don’t know how a port in the case can Limit the Band by being a passive component but this is it.

I have another question where I’m Completely ignorant. Which is the max watt in output of this port if the producer of case and mb don’t specific the max watt in output of every usb?

 

[Aeacus]

So you think that if a case have a usb 3.2 gen 1x1 also you connect with a header gen 2x1 you are limited to 5 gbps.

USB 3.2 Gen 1 is the good, old USB 3.0. No difference in bandwidth.
When the USB port can be USB 3.2 Gen 1 (5 Gbps) and the source (internal header) is 10 Gbps, total bandwidth will be the lowest of the two: 5 Gbps.

Let's make it simple;

When front I/O USB connects to MoBo via 19-pin internal USB 3.0 and ends with 2x type-A ports. It is USB 3.0 with 5 Gbps per one USB port.
Seen on left:

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81Xw7z2Xd+L._AC_UF350,350_QL80_.jpg

But USB type-C internal header, seen on right, can have speeds of 10/20/40 Gbps. That depends on MoBo, what bandwidth the internal header outputs + you need compatible type-C in the other end as well.

Which is the max watt in output of this port if the producer of case and mb don’t specific the max watt in output of every usb?

USB 3.0 max is 5W.

USB type-C, usually, is 15W.
But you have to read MoBo manual. Since some, with supplementary power (e.g MSI X670E Ace) offer up to 60W. MSI X670E Ace actually has 2x type-C internal headers. One of them is rated for 15W but another, and when plugging in the supplementary PCI-E 6-pin to MoBo, does reach 60W.
And there are MoBos that can do up to 100W over type-C as well (can't recall any at current moment).

 

[nicolodo]

USB 3.2 Gen 1 is the good, old USB 3.0. No difference in bandwidth.
When the USB port can be USB 3.2 Gen 1 (5 Gbps) and the source (internal header) is 10 Gbps, total bandwidth will be the lowest of the two: 5 Gbps.

Let's make it simple;

When front I/O USB connects to MoBo via 19-pin internal USB 3.0 and ends with 2x type-A ports. It is USB 3.0 with 5 Gbps per one USB port.
Seen on left:

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81Xw7z2Xd+L._AC_UF350,350_QL80_.jpg

But USB type-C internal header, seen on right, can have speeds of 10/20/40 Gbps. That depends on MoBo, what bandwidth the internal header outputs + you need compatible type-C in the other end as well.


USB 3.0 max is 5W.

USB type-C, usually, is 15W.
But you have to read MoBo manual. Since some, with supplementary power (e.g MSI X670E Ace) offer up to 60W. MSI X670E Ace actually has 2x type-C internal headers. One of them is rated for 15W but another, and when plugging in the supplementary PCI-E 6-pin to MoBo, does reach 60W.
And there are MoBos that can do up to 100W over type-C as well (can't recall any at current moment).

So the bandwidth is limited if the case not support the gen 2x1 but the power supply It depends only from the headers of the mobo? Right?
If the headers support, for example, 20w the case port support 20w.

I continue to not understand in which way the usb on the front panel can limitate the usb bandwidth from 2x1 to 1x1 but I trust to you that this is. From my study I always know that the port from case are only passive components with wire, sure they are different in hardware if they are 3 or 2 but the various spec of usb 3 type A in theory share the same hw and the same wires…maybe depends from the quality of wires from case to mobo.

 

[Aeacus]

but the power supply It depends only from the headers of the mobo? Right?

Yes.

I continue to not understand in which way the usb on the front panel can limitate the usb bandwidth from 2x1 to 1x1

Easiest way to understand this, is to look any PC case USB type-C port and think for a bit; "Why do PC case manufacturers specifically state the USB port revision? Surely there must be a difference in bandwidth, else-ways, there is no point to specifically list e.g USB 3.1 Gen 1x2 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 or USB4 behind every type-C port.".

Since IF each and every USB type-C port can do from 5 Gbps to 40 Gbps (current highest with USB4), then there would be 0 need to list the revision. But since revision is listed, the USB type-C port itself also plays a role in max bandwidth.

As of how exactly there are different bandwidth limits in USB type-C, well, i think that not all pins are connected inside the 24-pin type-C port, when the port itself supports 5/10 Gbps.

USB type-C pinout:

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://www.digikey.gr/-/media/Imag...pe-C/article-2016february-usb_3-1_figure1.jpg

 

[nicolodo]

Yes.


Easiest way to understand this, is to look any PC case USB type-C port and think for a bit; "Why do PC case manufacturers specifically state the USB port revision? Surely there must be a difference in bandwidth, else-ways, there is no point to specifically list e.g USB 3.1 Gen 1x2 or USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 or USB4 behind every type-C port.".

Since IF each and every USB type-C port can do from 5 Gbps to 40 Gbps (current highest with USB4), then there would be 0 need to list the revision. But since revision is listed, the USB type-C port itself also plays a role in max bandwidth.

As of how exactly there are different bandwidth limits in USB type-C, well, i think that not all pins are connected inside the 24-pin type-C port, when the port itself supports 5/10 Gbps.

USB type-C pinout:

Direct link if image doesn't load: https://www.digikey.gr/-/media/Images/Article Library/TechZone Articles/2016/February/USB 3 1 USB Type-C/article-2016february-usb_3-1_figure1.jpg

Yes you reply convince me and that can be the right explanation, not all pin are connected.

But you not consider that most people buy pc for gaming and don’t have interest in this technicals things, and maybe the case manufacture indicate at random the usb spec for this reason: Incredible confusion in the nomenclature of usb, Appear first in google searches( the seo search engine that I mentioned in the first post), not interest in this things so indicate a generally usb 3.0 can be ok for the 99% of the consumer and, last but not the least the case is for the most people an Aesthetic piece more than functional.

But this is only my theories and I can’t proof Probably as you say not all the pins are connected

 

[Aeacus]

and maybe the case manufacture indicate at random the usb spec for this reason

Here, you need to differentiate between reputable PC case brands (e.g Corsair, Phanteks, NZXT, Fractal Design) and no-name ones, who dish out fishbowl cases filled with RGB puke (random example).

Reputable PC case brands do not lie within their spec, since to them, brand reputation is far more valuable that sales. But no-name ones, they all care about money only and can lie within specs, to get more sales.

Since you didn't say which PC cases you looked at, i can't tell if you looked reputable brands or no-name/unknown brands.

Incredible confusion in the nomenclature of usb

That, you can blame on the manufacturers of USB ports.

In fact, the USB-IF (USB Implementers Forum), which creates the standards, has told us several times that it would prefer manufacturers not to use these version numbers at all and instead list their products as either SuperSpeed, SuperSpeed 10 Gbps or SuperSpeed 20 Gbps or as just USB 5 Gbps, USB 10 Gbps and USB 20 Gbps.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3-2-explained

And i too, would prefer to see USB ports listed based on their max bandwidth, rather by their revision. E.g:
1.25 Gbps - USB 1.0 (Type A)
2.5 Gbps - USB 2.0 (Type A)
5 Gbps - USB 3.0 / USB 3.1 Gen1 / USB 3.2 Gen1 (Type A or C)
10 Gbps - USB 3.1 Gen2 / USB 3.2 Gen2 / USB 3.2 Gen2x1 (Type A or C)
20 Gbps - USB 3.2 Gen2x2 (Type C)
40 Gbps - USB4 / USB4 Gen 3x2 (Type C)
80 Gbps - USB4 V2/ USB4 Gen 4x2 (Type C)

 

[nicolodo]

Here, you need to differentiate between reputable PC case brands (e.g Corsair, Phanteks, NZXT, Fractal Design) and no-name ones, who dish out fishbowl cases filled with RGB puke (random example).

Reputable PC case brands do not lie within their spec, since to them, brand reputation is far more valuable that sales. But no-name ones, they all care about money only and can lie within specs, to get more sales.

Since you didn't say which PC cases you looked at, i can't tell if you looked reputable brands or no-name/unknown brands.


That, you can blame on the manufacturers of USB ports.

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/usb-3-2-explained

And i too, would prefer to see USB ports listed based on their max bandwidth, rather by their revision. E.g:
1.25 Gbps - USB 1.0 (Type A)
2.5 Gbps - USB 2.0 (Type A)
5 Gbps - USB 3.0 / USB 3.1 Gen1 / USB 3.2 Gen1 (Type A or C)
10 Gbps - USB 3.1 Gen2 / USB 3.2 Gen2 / USB 3.2 Gen2x1 (Type A or C)
20 Gbps - USB 3.2 Gen2x2 (Type C)
40 Gbps - USB4 / USB4 Gen 3x2 (Type C)
80 Gbps - USB4 V2/ USB4 Gen 4x2 (Type C)

Sincerely, I work travelling the world in this period and I live in various hotel room, for this I don’t have time to assembled my self the pc.

So I would buy a pc in this site that assembled it for you. “Pc specialist” is the site. It have e.g. this fractal case, I insert the site of product here

Pop Silent

Fractal fuse flair with function in the new Pop series of cases that doesn’t skimp on aesthetics or flexibility. The entire series offers a solid foundation and excellent build quality, giving all users plenty of options and room to maneuver.

www.fractal-design.com

It declares a generic usb 3.0 ( That according to your reasoning are usb 5gbps because gen 1).
It sell also a usb c cable that is usb c gen 1x2.
So in this case also if you use a mobo with gen 2x2 of usb you are limited because the adding module of usb c is limited to 10gbps. The same for usb A 3.0 instead limited to 5gbps.

I used to know that fractal was good product…

 

[Aeacus]

It declares a generic usb 3.0 ( That according to your reasoning are usb 5gbps because gen 1).
It sell also a usb c cable that is usb c gen 1x2.
So in this case also if you use a mobo with gen 2x2 of usb you are limited because the adding module of usb c is limited to 10gbps. The same for usb A 3.0 instead limited to 5gbps.

Well, it says on the tin:

Front interface
2x USB 3.0*, Audio (* USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type-C add-on available separately)

USB 3.0 = 5 Gbps
USB 3.1 Gen2 = 10 Gbps

But if you have MoBo that has USB 3.2 Gen2x2 Type-C internal header, which = 20 Gbps, then yes, having this PC case and that add-on, means that you'll loose half the bandwidth, what your MoBo would be otherwise capable of.

Rather than looking for PC case that has or hasn't 20 Gbps port, i'd rather buy PCI-E add-on card, that has the required USB ports.
E.g this thing,
amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Vantec-5-Port-Gen2x2-20Gbps-UGT-PC3A2C/dp/B08ZCMPKY7

And when you have desktop PC with either ATX or micro-ATX MoBo, you can easily add the add-on card to PCI-E x4 slot MoBo should have. Though, mini-ITX MoBos only have one PCI-E slot, x16 one, for GPU.