News Valve Prepares to Kill Steam Gaming on Windows 7 and 8

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DSzymborski

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Most software will eventually end support on older Windows which I still have old PCs running Windows 7 and Windows 8.1.
It's sad like some say older Windows is actually better especially Windows 7 despite it is very old.
Those with old PC hardware will be force to upgrade to newer PC with latest Windows.
I run older Windows mainly due to my line of work which is repair, mainly to test older hardware properly.
Since Steam will discontinued support that means I have to find other means to do stress test or proper
hardware test for older hardware.

There are purpose-made benchmarks and tests for hardware; installing Steam and Steam games is a very, very odd diagnostic to just test old parts.
 
guess another distressing part of this is the whole "it's gonna be based on chrome" part of it.

so i guess steam now gonna be part of the google surveillance network....

nothing to think too much about there i'm sure.... 🙄 :spamafote:
MS has based the edge browser on chromium but it's not outright chrome, maybe MS is spying just as much or even more, but chrome or not wouldn't make a difference there.
 
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Chromium yet again ruining the web...

Chromium is nothign special anymore. Other browsers have just as many (and some have better) performance/features.

Chrome was good at start, but everyone else has caught up. (and imho chrome specifically is a plague as it wants to be everywhere)

MS has based the edge browser on chromium
Edge, like every other Chromium based browser, are built on same framework but modified in ways (how much varies)

however they all share chromium's core.

google and MS both want ur data so doesnt matter in end.
 
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And Sony and Nintendo attitude toward backward support and legacy gaming is even worse, Nintendo just retired the whole WII U and 3DS library.
That only stops you from buying new games or downloading the ones you own. It doesn't stop you from playing the games that are already on your device. It also doesn't stop you from buying/trading/playing physical copies of games.

If you want to run Steam games without Steam, you'll need to resort to piracy. Even if you bought a physical copy of the game, no Steam = no game.
 
That only stops you from buying new games or downloading the ones you own. It doesn't stop you from playing the games that are already on your device. It also doesn't stop you from buying/trading/playing physical copies of games.
Yeah, if you had physical games you wouldn't need steam either....
And if it's an online nintendo game you can't play it either.
If you want to run Steam games without Steam, you'll need to resort to piracy. Even if you bought a physical copy of the game, no Steam = no game.
That's also not completely true, Steam DRM is an option not a requirement, many steam games will run fine without steam running, they might have a different save game because steam cloud won't be running but that's all.
 
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Deleted member 1353997

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Yeah, if you had physical games you wouldn't need steam either....
That's not true, though.

Skyrim's 9 GB DVD only contains a 1.5 MB Steam installer. Despite being a physical release, you absolutely do need Steam. Don't know about all the various re-releases, though.
And Fallout 4 is only marginally better. At least the DVD is fully utilized, but you still need to download the remaining 21 GB from Steam.

Without Steam, I wouldn't even be able to install those games, despite having bought the physical release.

But let's be generous and assume you can actually install those games offline with just the physical release. Well, you still can't play them, because you need to be online at least once to activate the games before they can be launched.
Can you even log in or activate a game with an out-of-date client?

And if it's an online nintendo game you can't play it either.
You're moving the goalpost.

We're not talking about online games. Obviously, if the servers to an online game get taken offline, nobody can play the game anymore.
We're talking about a storefront.

As long as the Splatoon servers remain online, people will be able to play Splatoon, whether the eShop is still accessible or not.
You can't say the same about CS:GO and Steam. Even if CS:GO supported custom servers (I don't play the game, so I wouldn't know if it does), you can't play it without Steam.

The problem here isn't whether a game that needs a server to function needs a server to function (duh), but whether a game can still function even after you lose access to the shop that sold it.

I mean, Steam does have an offline mode, and I suppose W7/8 users can still use the last version of Steam that supports their OS. But if you ever need to reinstall your OS, all bets are off.
With consoles, as long as you have physical copies, just buy a new console and keep playing.

That's also not completely true, Steam DRM is an option not a requirement, many steam games will run fine without steam running, they might have a different save game because steam cloud won't be running but that's all.
That's completely irrelevant, though. Just because it's optional doesn't mean I can just turn it off whenever it suits me. That's not how it works.

Maybe I could buy games and waste time downloading and installing them, so I can copy the files to another computer and see if the game still runs, then refund it if it doesn't. But if I were willing to go through all that trouble to get DRM-free games, I'd be using GoG instead.

And GoG is great. I have my installers neatly stored on my NAS and can install and play all my games whenever I want, even if GoG goes offline for whatever reason. I may not be able to install GoG Galaxy on an unsupported OS either, and thus won't have access to achievements or cloud saves, but my games still work with or without Galaxy.
 
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DSzymborski

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Problem is you want the benefits without the cost. You say yourself that you're not willing to go through all that trouble get DRM-free games.

You can't have the ease of outsourcing much of your game management to a third party without also accepting the risk that said third party will make reasonable changes to the minimum requirements to use the service. And expecting a service to indefinitely support operating systems released more than a decade ago that are no longer supported isn't particularly reasonable.
 

mo_osk

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Yeah, if you had physical games you wouldn't need steam either....
And if it's an online nintendo game you can't play it either.

That's also not completely true, Steam DRM is an option not a requirement, many steam games will run fine without steam running, they might have a different save game because steam cloud won't be running but that's all.


Gabe Newel also said several time that if steam ever had to close they would make as much game as they can DRM free.
 

neojack

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@Nolonar thank you very much for expressing my thoughs much better than me !

I am IT and I just got hired in a medium sized business. I struggle to find solutions that are not Saas-based. The amount of subscriptions is staggering (office 365, with exchange, antispam, antivirus, "special VIP"package billed monthly for each computer by the consultant's firm that was hired before me, the 2FA solution, office365's backups, the contracts with the printers, etc)

I tried to get office 2021. Wrong ! MS has shortened the support to 5 years, so it comes more expensive than O365 over 5 years...
Saas is a cancer that kills ownership on our data and infrastructure.


About PC gaming, yes i guess GOG remains the only solution if someone want to rest assured to be able to install and play the games they bought after a few years.
 

neojack

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expecting a service to indefinitely support operating systems released more than a decade ago that are no longer supported isn't particularly reasonable.

Except they precisely dont'have to do anything to keep supporting W7

they could just feature-lock the last version of steam that runs on W7, and it would be the last version ever to run on W7. People could still use it to launch steam to download, install and validate the DRM on their games they already purchased and own.

By giving this kind of excuses to the big corpos, the world in 50 years would be like Cyberpunk where every aspect of our lives would be based on subscriptions and micro transactions. No thanks.
would you agree if your car refuses to run because "its not supported anymore" ?? or your toaster, fridge, or toilet ? Why accept this for PC gaming ?
if an object runs perfectly fine, I expect to be able to use it for as long as i want to. Software don't decay magically. if it worked in 1997, it can work today if the hardware survided.
 
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mo_osk

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Except they precisely dont'have to do anything to keep supporting W7

Sadly this is not how it works. Doing "nothing" is not "supporting" W7. Its abandoning it. And if it lead to abuse, one way or the other, Valve will nevertheless have to respond to the people who have been wronged. In order to do what what you are proposing Valve would have to be build a new software, some kind of "legacy steam" with a different license for its use and renegotiate the with each editor the presence of their games on this new platform. This is basically making a second steam.

In essence this is what GOG is offering and the number of game and services offered is obviously not the same..
 

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DSzymborski

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Except they precisely dont'have to do anything to keep supporting W7

they could just feature-lock the last version of steam that runs on W7, and it would be the last version ever to run on W7. People could still use it to launch steam to download, install and validate the DRM on their games they already purchased and own.

Except that entails support for it and ensuring that newer games will still support this method. You can't just freeze time this way.

By giving this kind of excuses to the big corpos, the world in 50 years would be like Cyberpunk where every aspect of our lives would be based on subscriptions and micro transactions. No thanks.
would you agree if your car refuses to run because "its not supported anymore" ?? or your toaster, fridge, or toilet ? Why accept this for PC gaming ?

It's not accepting or refusing anything. Steam is clear about what it is going in. I wouldn't buy the car or the toaster or the fridge under those circumstances. There's no bait-and-switch here. You want Steam's service, you accept Steam's conditions.

And, in fact, you do agree to these things. You can choose to lease a car; you get a benefit in return for not owning the car in the form of lower monthly payments and no loan. But in order to get those benefits and not bear those costs, you give up the different benefits of simply owning the car outright.

if an object runs perfectly fine, I expect to be able to use it for as long as i want to.

Not if it's not what you agreed to as the condition to obtaining the use of that software. A license to use does not mean ownership, and pretending that is the case doesn't make it true.

If you want forever software, then obtain software from a company that explicitly offers you ownership rather than simply a license to use. You're perfectly free to disagree and not use Steam because of their business model; you're not perfectly free to explicitly enter into a contract with Steam and then later demand the ownership that they never, ever, offered, or agreed to sell, to you.
 
That's not true, though.

Skyrim's 9 GB DVD only contains a 1.5 MB Steam installer. Despite being a physical release, you absolutely do need Steam. Don't know about all the various re-releases, though.
And Fallout 4 is only marginally better. At least the DVD is fully utilized, but you still need to download the remaining 21 GB from Steam.

Without Steam, I wouldn't even be able to install those games, despite having bought the physical release.

But let's be generous and assume you can actually install those games offline with just the physical release. Well, you still can't play them, because you need to be online at least once to activate the games before they can be launched.
Can you even log in or activate a game with an out-of-date client?
You are saying it yourself, you are describing a physical release and not a physical game.
A physical game will do the full installation and just ask for the serial on the back of your manual.
With consoles, as long as you have physical copies, just buy a new console and keep playing.
That's the point if the storefront closes and you lose the installed game you are screwed unless you also have the physical game, and then many games get updates that could completely change the game and you will be stuck with the first version of it.

If you have a steam game on your PC and you checked that it can run without steam then you can also keep it safe, archive it, burn it to disk, whatever, and run it without having to connect to steam or anything, that's what DRM-free means, it's the same thing as GoG.
That's completely irrelevant, though. Just because it's optional doesn't mean I can just turn it off whenever it suits me. That's not how it works.
I didn't say it's an option you can choose, I just said that it's not completely true that you always have to resort to piracy.
Maybe I could buy games and waste time downloading and installing them, so I can copy the files to another computer and see if the game still runs, then refund it if it doesn't. But if I were willing to go through all that trouble to get DRM-free games, I'd be using GoG instead.
Join the 21nd century where we can just ask google to tell us the answers.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam
 
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Deleted member 1353997

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Problem is you want the benefits without the cost. You say yourself that you're not willing to go through all that trouble get DRM-free games.

You can't have the ease of outsourcing much of your game management to a third party without also accepting the risk that said third party will make reasonable changes to the minimum requirements to use the service. And expecting a service to indefinitely support operating systems released more than a decade ago that are no longer supported isn't particularly reasonable.
I'm not here to point fingers at Valve, claiming they should be ashamed of dropping Windows 7/8 support, and preaching that nobody should use Steam because "THEIR EVULZ!" or whatever. As far as I'm concerned, Valve has the right to make whatever change they want to Steam, even unreasonable ones such as requiring it to run on quantum computers.

But, you know, if you don't like the cost (and some people here obviously don't), there's this cool new invention called "video game console" that will still run your games even long after the heat death of the universe. The PS Store and eShop going offline won't change that.

And then there's GoG.
 
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Deleted member 1353997

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You are saying it yourself, you are describing a physical release and not a physical game.
A physical game will do the full installation and just ask for the serial on the back of your manual.
That's the first I ever heard of that.
I always thought of a "physical release" as the release of a physical game. In this context, they were meant to be synonymous.

After all, unless you can differentiate between games that will do the full installation and those that won't, without first having to buy the game and try it, I don't think the distinction is all that useful.

With that in mind, I just asked ChatGPT: "difference between physical game and physical release", and this is what I got:
Physical game refers to a game that is sold as a physical copy, such as a cartridge or disc. Physical release refers to the release of a physical copy of a game. The difference between physical game and physical release is that physical game refers to the format of the game, while physical release refers to the availability of a physical copy of the game.

Now, I'm not saying ChatGPT is a reliable source, but its claims are based on the sources it can find on the internet. This means that the more widespread a claim is, the more likely ChatGPT will mention it, even if the claim is wrong. In other words, it sounds like your distinction of "physical game" and "physical release" is something you pulled out of thin air. If that's not it, would you mind sharing a source for your claim?

Also, I believe another thing I said myself was:
"But let's be generous and assume you can actually install those games offline with just the physical release. Well, you still can't play them, because you need to be online at least once to activate the games before they can be launched.
Can you even log in or activate a game with an out-of-date client?
"

Consider Half-Life 2: According to your own definition, that would be a "physical game". It was sold physically, would do the full installation, and just ask for the serial on the back of your manual. And yet it earned a lot of criticism for forcing people to connect to the internet to activate the game at least once.

That's the point if the storefront closes and you lose the installed game you are screwed unless you also have the physical game, and then many games get updates that could completely change the game and you will be stuck with the first version of it.
And with Steam, you don't even have the option of playing your physical games either. At the very least, you have to activate the game through Steam. Good luck with that, when the servers refuse to connect with your outdated client.

And why mention updates? Do you think it's better to not play the game at all, if the alternative is to remain stuck with the first version?
Is there a specific reason why you keep trying to move the goalpost?

If you have a steam game on your PC and you checked that it can run without steam then you can also keep it safe, archive it, burn it to disk, whatever, and run it without having to connect to steam or anything, that's what DRM-free means, it's the same thing as GoG.
There are currently 964 DRM-free games out of 40 198 on the list you so kindly provided. That's almost 2.4%, which is not a lot.
With that said, how many Steam games have you archived already? Not that it matters. Given your tendency to move the goalpost, I don't trust you to be truthful anyway.

My point is, nobody's going to buy Steam games expecting them to be archivable. Those who care about archivability will have more luck with GoG or with building a physical library of console games.

I didn't say it's an option you can choose, I just said that it's not completely true that you always have to resort to piracy.
Alright, I'll take that back. You will only have to resort to piracy in 97.6% of the cases.
Not that it really makes a difference, though. Once you've resorted to piracy for your 98 games, you might as well add those last two ones to the mix.

Join the 21nd century where we can just ask google to tell us the answers.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games_on_Steam
I can be snarky too: "Join humanity where we can just use our brains."
Did I do it right?

Your source clearly states:
Total number of unverified or DRM protected games: 39,260 out of 40,198 games in total.
Notice the word that says "unverified"? Do I need to explain what that means? It means, you're still going to waste the majority of your time downloading and verifying games, because you don't know which of the 97.6% of your games are actually DRM-free.

Nice try, though.


PS:
Here's an interesting fact: the number of verified DRM-free games (964) and unverified or DRM protected games (39 260) is greater than the total number of games (40 224 > 40 198). I thought that was interesting.
 
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Deleted member 14196

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Omg. Don’t quote chat Gtp. You’ve lost all credibility right there.
 
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That's the first I ever heard of that.
I always thought of a "physical release" as the release of a physical game. In this context, they were meant to be synonymous.
Think about it logically.
Why would there be a reason to call a release physical?
It's only when there is an option for a digital release that you have to distinguish between them.
Before there where digital releases all game releases where just releases, nobody called them physical releases because there was no reason to distinguish them from anything else because there was nothing else.

For all the rest, you are just fighting windmills here.
2.4% is not zero, so my statement was correct, if you have one of these games and steam stops working you can still play that one game, that's all that it takes to make my statement be correct.
 
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Valve will end support for Steam on Windows 7 and 8 PCs in January 2024. There are still 1.9% of Steam users on the older operating systems.

Valve Prepares to Kill Steam Gaming on Windows 7 and 8 : Read more
I agree... and there's more than the "reported" amount of Win 7 users. Most of us just upgraded to 10 because of games requiring it. I HAVE to install Windows 7 first for my Seagate NAS and then install Windows 10 on top of it to access my old NAS drives, INCLUDING my old original Synology NAS systems. Being disabled now with no Social Security and no job availability out here, I have no way to upgrade anything anymore or purchase any new computers. I even still use Windows 98 and the original Windows 3.1 on my old computers. Windows 98 runs my accounting software. Windows 3.1 for Pacman, Defenders, Galaxian and many other old games. I'm glad Nethack still runs on everything. At least until Dos is completely phased out of Windows OS's.
 
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I'm not sure you understand the Windows 11 restrictions. A PC that old won't have a supported CPU or the TPM2 module that Windows 11 requires.
NON TPM Windows 11 installers exist. I can install Win 11 on my Single core CPU, no TPM at all computer BUT, on the test partition it runs slower than a snail in a BIG bowl of molasses. LoL. Anyhow. If Microsoft stands on the statement that Windows 11 will run on any older CPU machines, millions and millions of people will be happy to make a partition available for it.