Valve Shoots Down Rumor of Steam Game Trades

[dalta centauri]

The fact that Steam offers a lot of games on discount is irrelevant to this issue. I've bought 100+ games via Steam, and about a quarter of those are ones I was not impressed with. Some of them are outright horrible. I would love to be able to trade them to another user. Instead, due to developer and studio paranoia, they collect dust in my games list.

A crap game is still a crap game, no matter how much you paid for it. Price is irrelevant.

On the opposite, most of the games I bought were fun and a blast to either relive or play for me. I got Painkiller BE, Doom, Doom 2, Doom 3, and Heretic all seperately at the time and I enjoyed them. The pricing is alot different from when I originally got them, but when I know that I won't be playing them anymore I would love to give them to a Steam friend who hasn't played them. Whether you sell them or not, I think it comes down to the actual person who bought them from the reseller.

 

[Dirtman73]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]No, but Steam has no idea who the other persons account is and it would doubtless lead to "cash-in-hand" trades where people would sell their game.Naive much?[/citation]

Please explain how you got to this line of reasoning, because I highly doubt that Steam would allow a trade system that would involve money transactions between users.

I see no reason why consumers would be opposed to a trade system in Steam. It could work very well. Of course, the bigwigs are opposed to it. Greed and all that.

 

[Dirtman73]

Never mind, back_by_demand, I can see your point about cash deals. Still, I doubt that it would have much of an effect on Steam's profit margin; how many Steam users can you say you trust enough to send your PayPal account info to?

I really don't think cash/credit trades would be an issue.

 

[dustcrusher]

Food for thought: replace the word "game" with the word "album" or "movie" in back_by_demand's original post (upvoted, btw). Do those of you who agreed with him still feel the same way?

So far, Steam has had deep discounts and specials to compensate for the lack of sell/lend/giveaway capability. It's similar to new games in retail stores with exclusives bundled in- there's incentive for going through legal channels.

Isn't it interesting then, that game companies' approach (piracy/reselling will happen, let's do what we can to minimize it and persuade people to buy instead) seems to work, while the music and film industries' approach (we can stop them all with legal action and not change anything else about our business model) is met with tons of backlash?

I know there are exceptions for all three industries; I'm just going by overall trends.

 

[Guest]

Dustcrusher touches on it, and I agree. Why are games so different from any of the other things we buy/sell used all the time? Homes, cars, clothes, books, movies, electronics...

If you think this is good and proper for game developers, then you should think it's good and proper for every industry. Should Ford require me to pay a $1,000 for a new ignition code when I buy a used Mustang because they feel cheated? Should I have to send Sony a fee to unlock the used TV I bought? IMO, this is pure greed on behalf of the gaming industry. And worse, it may inspire other industries to try to find ways to quell the secondhand market for their products.

 

[Guest]

I just realized I was making comments based in part on other topics not covered in this article, about how game makers are now requiring you to buy a new install key when you buy a used game. That was the basis of my comparison to other industries...

 

[BulkZerker]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]It's exactly the same thing, a cottage industry would spring up where people would go into GameStop and "gift" their copy of the game to the store and they would then hand over cash to the seller.Then they would take money from the next person and "gift" the game to their account.There is always a way to run a scam from it, a blanket ban is the only way to stop it.[/citation]

Ok, because you seem to lack a lot of sentence structure in this post I'm gathering "Person buys game, installs, gifts it to someone through steam, then returns game to gamestop for a refund."

Ummm, last I checked you can't returned open boxes firstly, second you can't activate all games on steam, only a VERY limited number.

Also the whole used game thing ONLY effects the crap they sell on Consoles. Seriously man you're the kind of person that has the state of mind that if piracy doesn't exist than the companies sales will go up drastically, which is an outright lie. If I can't pirate something I have no intention of buying then I personally will just go without. I was considering buying windows 7 for this machine. Windows 7 costs a lot. Will I pirate it? No. Instead I'm using Linux. I'm not piratign for the sake of pirating. I'm pirating because the cost of software is so inflated that if the Govt only knew... (bitch about the price of gas much? no, software inflation is WAY worse).

Call me a theif, I'm just tired of companies diving into my pocket and eating my wallet, then continuing to eat my leg and try to go after my scrotum while their at it.


Now as for Steam Bombing this idea it's no surprise. If they did everyone would abandon Steam distribution as well as VAC purely because of the perceived notion that they'd loose money that they'd never get anyway.

 

[tolham]

[citation][nom]BulkZerker[/nom]Ok, because you seem to lack a lot of sentence structure in this post I'm gathering "Person buys game, installs, gifts it to someone through steam, then returns game to gamestop for a refund."[/citation]
nope, you completely misunderstood what he said. here's what would happen if users could gift any of their games bought on steam: i buy hl2 on steam. i complete it and no longer need the game. i go to gamestop, and they let me use a computer to log in to my steam account. i gift them my copy of hl2 over steam and they hand me cash. then gamestop takes that copy of hl2 and gifts it to another customer who pays gamestop in cash. valve has just lost a sale.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]Dirtman73[/nom]Never mind, back_by_demand, I can see your point about cash deals. Still, I doubt that it would have much of an effect on Steam's profit margin; how many Steam users can you say you trust enough to send your PayPal account info to?I really don't think cash/credit trades would be an issue.[/citation]
Usually I am the first person to be annoyed about personal freedoms and product ownership. But once people start to view games as cheap consumables rather than expensive products they won't care about not being able to resell them.

Simple fact is that reselling of games via retail outlets such as CEX or GameStop is a disease on the games industry which has forced the cost of games up artificially to the point where people are overvaluing their new "asset". If a new game was, for example, $15 instead of $50, the purchase would be viewed the same as a t-shirt or an ear-ring. People wouldn't dream of selling a second hand t-shirt and when they finish with it gets thrown in the bin. As long as the price stays as high as it does people will psychologically attach more feeling to it and when they have finished with it would be determined to recoup some of the money they paid.

On a further note, this is not the first time software has been considered a licenced product rather than an owned asset so people need to stop being all surprised and shocked. as long as we are all informed and aware right from the start that you cannot resell your Steam games then my advice to that person would be to do the following:-

1) Go to the nearest retail game shop
2) Maybe if it is raining/snowing/hurricane
3) Pay to get their on the bus/train or petrol for the car/parking
4) Fight your way through crowds on a busy shopping day because you work for a living
5) Find the last copy sold out and have to troll round 8 differant shops
6) At last find a second hand copy that costs more than the Steam version
7) Finish the game
8) Repeat steps 1 to 4 above when you sell the game again

People are prepared to spend huge amounts of money in order to get things that are convenient, so why do people turn Steam on it's head for giving you convenience that also costs you less?

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]BulkZerker[/nom]Ok, because you seem to lack a lot of sentence structure in this post I'm gathering "Person buys game, installs, gifts it to someone through steam, then returns game to gamestop for a refund."Ummm, last I checked you can't returned open boxes firstly, second you can't activate all games on steam, only a VERY limited number. Also the whole used game thing ONLY effects the crap they sell on Consoles. Seriously man you're the kind of person that has the state of mind that if piracy doesn't exist than the companies sales will go up drastically, which is an outright lie. If I can't pirate something I have no intention of buying then I personally will just go without. I was considering buying windows 7 for this machine. Windows 7 costs a lot. Will I pirate it? No. Instead I'm using Linux. I'm not piratign for the sake of pirating. I'm pirating because the cost of software is so inflated that if the Govt only knew... (bitch about the price of gas much? no, software inflation is WAY worse).Call me a theif, I'm just tired of companies diving into my pocket and eating my wallet, then continuing to eat my leg and try to go after my scrotum while their at it. Now as for Steam Bombing this idea it's no surprise. If they did everyone would abandon Steam distribution as well as VAC purely because of the perceived notion that they'd loose money that they'd never get anyway.[/citation]
-1 for completely not understanding that Steam games are mostly bought online and downloaded
[citation][nom]tolham[/nom]nope, you completely misunderstood what he said. here's what would happen if users could gift any of their games bought on steam: i buy hl2 on steam. i complete it and no longer need the game. i go to gamestop, and they let me use a computer to log in to my steam account. i gift them my copy of hl2 over steam and they hand me cash. then gamestop takes that copy of hl2 and gifts it to another customer who pays gamestop in cash. valve has just lost a sale.[/citation]
+1 internets for reasoning, reading and common sense

 

[Stardude82]

Start a new account for every game you buy, problem solved. Sell the account if you get bored with the game. Has limitations, but more or less works.

 

[Dirtman73]

[citation][nom]tolham[/nom]nope, you completely misunderstood what he said. here's what would happen if users could gift any of their games bought on steam: i buy hl2 on steam. i complete it and no longer need the game. i go to gamestop, and they let me use a computer to log in to my steam account. i gift them my copy of hl2 over steam and they hand me cash. then gamestop takes that copy of hl2 and gifts it to another customer who pays gamestop in cash. valve has just lost a sale.[/citation]

That would never happen, simply because brick-and-mortar stores are not in the business of trading for digital games. And they never will be because of copyright and anti-piracy laws. Cash deals between users? Most definitely a possibility.

Physical retail establishments just don't fit into this discussion.

 

[dalta centauri]

-1 for completely not understanding that Steam games are mostly bought online and downloaded

+1 internets for reasoning, reading and common sense

Common sense? Why would gamestop sell games using an application that's not owned by them? It would overall end up in Valve/Steam being able to sue gamestop because their using something in which they don't own, or even partner with.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]dalta centauri[/nom]Common sense? Why would gamestop sell games using an application that's not owned by them? It would overall end up in Valve/Steam being able to sue gamestop because their using something in which they don't own, or even partner with.[/citation]
It's an example, replace the name "Gamestop" with "Dodgy Asian internet company that also trades in WoWGold".
It happens, despite not being sanctioned by Blizzard.
[citation][nom]Dirtman73[/nom]That would never happen, simply because brick-and-mortar stores are not in the business of trading for digital games. And they never will be because of copyright and anti-piracy laws. Cash deals between users? Most definitely a possibility[/citation]
If 3 friends had a copy of a Steam game that cost the same as a single game for a single person for a physical copy i'm sure they wouldn't mind.

 

[Biff Manly]

I have a very large number of games in my steam account and while I don't care about selling them, there should be a way to let more than one game be played at a time.

I should be able to play BC2 while my son plays Garys mod and my other son plays Borderlands. Currently, we have a second account, but we are getting to the point of needing a 3rd and it's just ridiculous.

There are games in my account I bought for the kids and I never play, but they can only use them if I am not using the account.

This should be addressed.

 

[dEAne]

Untrue. We've never met with Mr. Pachter.- Like you swear to your mom never to play games in school days.

 

[Guest]

The gaming industry thinking that a used sell is a lost new sell is as wrong as the record industry thinking that an illegal download constitutes a lost sell. For me, it's about price. I just don't buy games at the release price. I wait for them to fall in price. When my price threshold is reached, I'll purchase the game. It could be new or used, I don't care. I just don't see why their industry should be considered different from anything else that is sold used. Now, there is a lawsuit being considered to make it possible for studios to ban the resell of their games. That would be a dangerous precedent for anything sold used and I don't believe it would drastically improve their numbers anyway. They could win the case and then their sells plummet as a result. But, at least they're right in their convictions.

 

[DawnTreader]

i want to be able to buy a pack of games and trade in games i already owned.

i bought the orange box but had already purchased half life 2 and episode 1 in store. so i wanted to trade those games in for steam store credit, but there was no way to do that. i ended up gifting the games to a friend.

 

[abbadon_35]

this is why I go around steam

 

[jaygee02]

[citation][nom]Schmalgar[/nom]Dustcrusher touches on it, and I agree. Why are games so different from any of the other things we buy/sell used all the time? Homes, cars, clothes, books, movies, electronics...If you think this is good and proper for game developers, then you should think it's good and proper for every industry. Should Ford require me to pay a $1,000 for a new ignition code when I buy a used Mustang because they feel cheated? Should I have to send Sony a fee to unlock the used TV I bought? IMO, this is pure greed on behalf of the gaming industry. And worse, it may inspire other industries to try to find ways to quell the secondhand market for their products.[/citation]

Because in those other markets most of the time you are buying a physical copy of the item - cars, clothes etc. People keep saying stuff like 'stealing music/games isn't like stealing a car because you aren't taking a physical thing', so they can't then turn around and say why can't they treat it just like a physical item.

It's a complex situation; the way I see it is buying something physical second hand is efficient, reduces waste and pollution etc; buying something abstract like software second-hand does not - it's just being cheap.

 

[Guest]

as much as you guys love steam, remember that the competition from physical disc made them do it. If all games in the future are non-transferable, do you think that they will lower the sales price of the game? really? remember the word monopoly or cartel?

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]whatzoot[/nom]as much as you guys love steam, remember that the competition from physical disc made them do it. If all games in the future are non-transferable, do you think that they will lower the sales price of the game? really? remember the word monopoly or cartel?[/citation]
There won't be a monopoly as long as there are direct download options from each of the Console vendors, admittedly they are not PC games but the real monopoly comes when a Steam client arrives for Xbox and Playstation. Impossible? They said the same thing about gaming on a Mac.

 

[eddieroolz]

When I need to play a game I don't have, I just ask for my friend's Steam account. The game continues running even if he logs back in while I'm playing. So no real downside, really.

 

[back_by_demand]

[citation][nom]DawnTreader[/nom]i want to be able to buy a pack of games and trade in games i already owned.i bought the orange box but had already purchased half life 2 and episode 1 in store. so i wanted to trade those games in for steam store credit, but there was no way to do that. i ended up gifting the games to a friend.[/citation]
You knew that you would not get any money for the games in advance and there is no ambiguity from Steam on the subject, but it didn't stop you from buying the Orange Box did it?
If you deduct the cost of HL2 from the cost of Orange Box, is the rest of the contents of the Orange Box still a fantastically cheap deal?
Yes.
Was then, still is now.
If you were determined to get some money back from it you could have asked your friend for $5 or to buy you a drink next time you are out.

 

[beayn]

[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Personally I don't care, I pay for Steam games and I know they cannot be re-sold afterwards and it's no big dealThe only reason for a 2nd hand games market to exist is for buying games cheaper and Steam games are cheap enough already (I recently got every Doom title ever made for a whopping £7.81)The second hand games market is a leech on the industry and the developers don't see a penny of the money that circulates through it. So what is better for the end user?1) Games distubuted in a way that the 2nd hand market does not exist, every penny goes to the developers so they can reinvest in more and better games and the high uptake of sales means that the cost is reduced for the customer. Quality is increased, cost is lowered.2) Games are allowed to flourish in a re-sellable marketplace, a single sale of the game can lead to dozens of separate owners so the uptake is lower, this leads to higher costs for the games and the amount available for reinvestment is also lowered. Quality is lowered, cost is increased.Time for this leeching industry to die, if you work in CEX or GameStop then time to look for a new job in KFC, it's not like you had a highly paid position of skilled qualification to begin with. The ultimate winner here will be the customer - we get better quality games and pay less money in the long run.[/citation]

So you're saying that Car manufacturers should get a cut of the money when you sell your used car? Ridiculous. Once the item is purchased you're free to resell it and the game company has no right to get a cut of that cash.

Piracy is a different story of course. Selling the individual copies of a game to someone else where the original owner does not retain a copy is not a leech on the industry at all and is probably a healthier way to spread the game to other potential buyers. Friends of the new buyer may want to purchase the game as well. If the new buyer didn't want to buy it new, he probably wouldn't have even if there were no used game market.

That said, I don't think Steam should offer a trade / resale option even if they gave a cut to the game companies. As you said, Steam games are cheap enough as it is, especially if you wait for the specials.