Verizon Says Selling Customer Info is Legal

[rosen380]

Here is an excerpt from their website:

"What if you knew where your audience was going before, during and after a big
event? What if you could know the customer profiles of not just your ticket purchasers,
but the demographics, geographics and mobile Web-browsing interests of your actual
attendees as well? Now you can take event analytics further than ever. Enhance
your audience experience and drive sales with unprecedented marketing metrics
that will keep your fans and sponsors coming back for more."

So, they aren't selling the info that bentlax33 went to Anchor Bar after the Sabres Game and sent an email to his wife saying he'd be home by 12:30a.

They're talking something more like: 25% of the tracked individuals went to local bars and restaurants after the game; 10% checked in with Yelp before going. Maybe local restaurants want to try and figure out whether it is worth staying open to 1a instead of 11p on days with night games. Knowing whether about 2% or 80% of the 12-15k people leaving those games are likely to grab something to eat outside of the arena might be pretty useful to them in deciding-- and it doesn't shed any insight on what you, personally, might be doing.

 

[dalethepcman]

[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]"So, they aren't selling the info that bentlax33 went to Anchor Bar after the Sabres Game and sent an email to his wife saying he'd be home by 12:30a.They're talking something more like: 25% of the tracked individuals went to local bars and restaurants after the game; ....[/citation]

But they have the ability to say "Rosen380 was posting on tomshardware while he was at work." This is the underlying problem with DPI, if its used for user data collection, that data is not anonymous, and the original unsanitized data can be given out "accidentally." There needs to be a clear line drawn somewhere to prevent this level of abuse, but at this time its only business ethics and economy of scale preventing your neighbor/wife/mother from paying Verizon $5 and seeing everything you do with your phone.

We all know how business ethics are, as soon as economy of scale comes down this would be a possible future if left unchecked.

 

[devBunny]

[citation][nom]pliskin1[/nom]Oh, and about them not giving out personal details. I'm pretty sure giving out your favorite pets name will provide access to many security questions.[/citation]

Uh oh, I didn't think of that. I'd better change all my passwords right now! :-O

On the other hand, as rosen380 says above, it's aggregate data, not about individuals.

 

[booyaah]

Obviously a majority of users do not opt out. The real reason why the advertising DMA is hating on MS is not even the fact that DNT would be turned on for IE 10 (0% marketshare who cares), it is the fact that it sets a precedent for all other browser makers to do the same, then maybe phone carriers, and other industries.

Honestly, as long as they allow opt-out and follow it, I don't mind taking 1-2 minutes to check an opt-out box when I set up a new account.

 

[rosen380]

dalethepcman-- sure, we hope that the banks and credit card companies and hospitals/doctors and insurance companies and government agencies, etc, that also have lots of valuable personal data also don't leak it as well. Whether it is on accident, someone hacking in to their systems or an employee with access that could use the money, all we can do is hope that they don't start passing out the info they have on hand.

 

[dalethepcman]

Rosen :

Banks and credit card companies have a higher shared interest in keeping your data secure, if it gets breached, they have to pay for the eff up, not you.

For doctors and insurance companies its called HIPPA, they will lose their licenses and ability to be insured and face substantial fines if they disclose private information without explicit consent.

For government, they don't want to sell your information to anyone, they are the ones buying.

Verizon has no laws preventing them from doing exactly what I said, its only economy of scale preventing them from doing it.

 

[rosen380]

Sure-- but I'm, not talking about doctors [who are generally well payed], sneaking out some information for a few bucks, more like a lower paid administrator, receptionist, janitor, bank teller. Hell at my dentist office, if the receptionist went to the bathroom, I could easily swipe hundreds of records, which I'm sure include SSNs and all of the info I'd need to do some credit applications.

 

[rosen380]

According to the CDC atleast, doing what Verizon did [sharing aggregated data] is even OK by HIPAA for your medical records.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/m2e411a1.htm

 

[dalethepcman]

Stealing files from your dentist is illegal, whats your point?

Nothing you have said refutes that Verizon could not if they wanted to, sell data about your location, or browsing habits to your spouse, lawyer, boss, mother, neighbor, stalker, serial rapist etc... Just because it is aggregated does not mean it cannot be used to identify you.

Say you were a 35 year old hispanic male who lives in Duluth Minesota, who wasn't supposed to use sites like tomshardware while at work, so the sites were blocked from corporate computers, but you have your cellular phone and your boss suspects your using it while on the job to access restricted web sites (which you do.) Your boss knows you like to eat lunch at a local deli downstairs and every employee is given a Verizon phone on a corporate account.

"Dear Verizon, I would like to purchase information on 35 year old Hispanic males that visit our store so we can see what they do during our business hours, where they go, sites they browse, etc.. so we can target correct advertisements, our business is a small deli based out of Duluth."

Send Verizon a check.

Now say you were the only 35 year old Hispanic male in that area that ate at that Deli on a regular basis that used Verizon. Boom personally identifiable information. Next week your boss fires you for accessing websites on your cellphone while your at work.

All you have to do is know a few whereabouts and criteria about your target to get personally identifiable data.

If this were an "Opt In" situation, no one would care, but because its an "Opt Out" that is not clearly explained hopefully they get the hammer.

 

[rosen380]

When you get a phone from verizon what personal info do they record? I have AT&T and I don't recall them asking my DoB, gender [granted that could be figured out from the first name with probably 95%+ accuracy], race, etc -- so I'm assuming those are not available.

As far as your scenario-- if Verizon is offering aggregate data only and someone makes a query so specific that it yields just one result, IMO, offering that information up is about as ethical as someone stealing medical records for you to get around HIPAA. So, if you are concerned about how ethical the Verizon employee is as far as handing out this data, be equally concerned about every single person who has access to any of your important information in the dozens of places where it might be.

 

[dalethepcman]

[citation][nom]rosen380[/nom]When you get a phone from verizon what personal info do they record? I have AT&T and I don't recall them asking my DoB, gender [granted that could be figured out from the first name with probably 95%+ accuracy], race, etc -- so I'm assuming those are not available.As far as your scenario-- if Verizon is offering aggregate data only and someone makes a query so specific that it yields just one result, IMO, offering that information up is about as ethical as someone stealing medical records for you to get around HIPAA. So, if you are concerned about how ethical the Verizon employee is as far as handing out this data, be equally concerned about every single person who has access to any of your important information in the dozens of places where it might be.[/citation]

It's not about ethic's, there is no person in the middle saying "hey it only returned one result, we can't give them this" Its a database querry. Input criteria, out comes data, email to client.

Also as for you giving information to AT&T, they know everything you type, web pages, google searches, usernames, passwords, bank account numbers, every text you send, number you dial, how long the calls were and locations you were physically at at all times.

Why would Verizon or AT&T request this info from you? You probably wouldn't fill out completely or truthfully. Its much easier to bury a little one liner stating that your use will be tracked for marketing, to opt out visit "www.some huge web address"

I am not sure if you are wishing to stay ignorant, or blind to the bigger picture. The reason this news is on EVERY major news site, is because its a big deal. Regardless, I don't think I can actually educate you if you are unwilling to open your eye's. Don't take my word for it though, do the research yourself so you know what your are talking about. Here are some links to get you started.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/why-you-should-check-your-verizon-wireless-privacy-settings-right-1C6370918

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/10/17/verizon-very-excited-that-it-can-track-everything-phone-users-do-and-sell-that-to-whoever-is-interested/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/verizon-precision-market-insights_n_1971265.html

 

[Guest]

Verizon sells customers’ data to third parties and states that data is the new oil, which raises controversy since customers signed contracts with Verizon and pay only for its services while Verizon earns money both from customers and the other companies. It twists the nature of its contracts with customers and uses their data without compensation to them, which is unfair to the customers. Some argues that Verizon sells the data in order to provide better services and if customers are not happy with sharing their data, they can opt out at any time. These concessions are not persuasive. Firstly, Verizon’s Precision Market Insight program is not a necessary service to the customers. There are many other alternatives such as Apple App Store, Android Market and searching engines like Google for the smartphone users if they need services other than traditional services like calling, texting and browsing that Verizon provides. Besides, there are interest-based advertisements on Google and they might be more relevant to the customers’ preference than those that Verizon provides. This is because internet service providers are entitled to compile detailed profiles on their users according to the laws. In contrast, “at least three wiretapping-related federal laws restrict what broadband providers can do” (McCullagh, 2008), which makes the Verizon’s targeted marketing messages less accurate. Lastly, for the opt-out option that Verizon always emphasizes, it does not perfectly explain data selling. If Verizon does care about its customers, why it didn’t make opt-out as default? Moreover, how do the customers know that Verizon does stop collecting and selling their data after they opt-out?