*any mods, im not advocating piracy, im just stating its not satan that everyone want it to be, i also point out things that can never be gotten any way other than pirate or bootleg, i dont believe anything i wrote is directly against a rule that would get me sanction, but if anything is, can you just remove that part and not the full post as i do bring up good points*
[citation][nom]edogawa[/nom]This isn't a big deal unless your a pirate who is illegally downloading content. I honestly don't get the mindset of pirates, they know(or should know) what their doing is wrong, and that they have no legal right to download said file. I always see pirates say it won't hurt sales because it's not physical goods, but it's not different to entering an amusement park, you have no "RIGHT" to be there or to use said file.Only thing I disagree on is the punishment for pirates being caught, some people are charged 1 million dollars? They should just pay 3-4x the cost of what they downloaded as punishment.[/citation]
japan just made fileshareing illegal with jail time if cought, you know what happened?
piracy went down, but so did music and entertainment sales in record high numbers.
piracy isnt the big bad you are claiming it to be, because in all honesty, most of them would have never bought it from the get go, and people that may have, use it as a try and buy.
with music, you have people who pirate and share songs with frineds, who than go out to buy it if they like it, those of which would have never heard of it otherwise.
now i may get a sanction for this, as i dont know if its advocating piracy to much or not, but i just listed real world facts. not to mention the software side like adobe who owe piracy alot because it made them an industry standard.
[citation][nom]edogawa[/nom]Really? If you had a computer stolen do you expect to get a brand new one? No. You committed a crime and just admitted to it. It's one thing to copy a friends disc or floppies/discs, but a totally different thing to seed and spread it out to thousands of people who have no "right" to it. Some things cannot be stopped obviously, like copying something for a friend or two. You will never have full rights to anything you buy, digital or physical or digital, you're only granted the right to view or listen to said product. You have access to thousands of movies online for cheap, as well as music, and your complaining about distribution models? Piracy is wrong, if you create a movie, I'm sure as hell you wouldn't want me to spread it around to everyone free so that you lost profits. And of course I've copied tapes and floppies, who hasn't, but times have changes where there are quick and cheap avenues to access media.[/citation]
1 pirate does not equal 1 sale, that is logical fallacy that the argument always has. piracy of a bad movie can tank a movie worse than it normally would have, but piracy of a good movie can increase the sales of tickets too.
you want to tell me the avengers or any of the recent super hero movies didn't get pirated? and they what... went on to set world records for sales?
we have a part of the law that is specifically for personal backups, but due to laws that come after it, we are no longer allowed those personal backups anymore if you have to crack copy protection to get to the data, and i find that sick that rights we use to have are taken away by big businesses trying to sell us the same crap again and again.
i am all for personal backup and believe it should be a right to them, otherwise we own a license to the data, and we should have every right to have it sense we purchased it reguardless of medium.
please look back at the vhs era where movie executives said "you shouldn't be able to pay once for a movie and watch it as much as you want"
do you really thing those douches are looking out for YOUR best interest? i can understand you on the "against the law" thing (laws made for counterfeiting empires, not normal civilians) but please end it there, do not defend companies.
[citation][nom]edogawa[/nom]It's one big mess how everything is turning out because people want free stuff. Things will probably get worse here on out I am guessing. There is fault on both sides.[/citation]
you really think its about piracy?
government doesn't give a crap about it, they want to spy on us.
corporations are in their pockets and they push through crap like this.
the isp doesn't want to provide you with the service you pay for if you use it, so they look for an out
the recent track what you do online makes it so they can send you a leter jsut for heavy use, and to contest it you PAY THEM money, and if you win YOU DONT GET IT BACK.
they get to extort you
corporations thing they made a dent
and government gets to step in easier.
[citation][nom]fkr[/nom]DRM on movies music and games sucks. I do not believe that pirating really hurts anybody. look at borderlands 2 on tpb right now. maybe 4k seeders. When games and movies are great people buy them and the devs make millions. You will never see a good company go under because of pirating. You know what I do not want to buy Cinderella for my children every time they come out with a new media platform. You think that I should pay $20 for a vhs then dvd then blueray then whatever comes next. Same for music. Lastly I do not want any ISP watching what I am doing on the internet. Period.and if I could just replace the cost of my music for whatever the corps distribution cost is that would be fine but $15-20 for another copy is ridiculous.You keep giving and the corps will continue to take. I would not be surprised if they start charging for everytime you rewatch something on your DVR since you do not really have the rights to own it and watch your movie whenever you want[/citation]
vhs era, they were lobbying for a bill change added to vhs players, till they realized it would never work.
they also looked into making ads on dvrs unskippable, all function would be locked if a commercial was on.
[citation][nom]edogawa[/nom]Well, your statement made a lot of sense in a way, but this isn't a philosophical debate of any kind.There is no debate if they are or not stealing, they are in one way or another, and that has to stop. Pirates have, people who download something without paying for it, have no legal "RIGHT" to use or view that content. The illegal piracy of content, if it hurts sale or not is irrelevant too, even if 10% of pirates were forced to buy something, that is profit gain. In a sense, it is a moral issue too, but you have to be really cheap to pirate content, most things are not that expensive.[/citation]
wow, i quoted you how many times... you understand this on a VERY basic level... not on the real world level.
if a product is good, piracy hurts no one, in fact it increases sales.
if a product is bad, it hurts it more than no piracy would have.
please google studies on piracy and real world effects because you miss the big picture.
[citation][nom]ethicalfan[/nom]42% of all US internet upstream traffic wouldn't be used to illegally distribute music, movies, games, software and ebooks if these ISPs were obeying US Federal law. The US Bureau of Labor Statistics says that musicians wages are down 45% since p2p technology arrived. US Home video sales (DVD, BluRay, PayTV, VOD, Streaming) are down 25% to $18.5B in 2011 from $25B in 2006.The first BitTorrent search engines debuted in 2004. Recorded music is down worldwide from $27B in 1999 (Napster) to $15B in 2011. Video Game revenue (consoles & PC) is down 13% from 2007. In the meantime broadband revenues grew from zero to $50B a year in the US with p2p as the killer app that drove broadband adoption. Those are real jobs lost that are not coming back until the public realizes that these are your friends and neighbors whose careers are being destroyed by lack of copyright enforcement. Who is destroying these industries? ISPs who ignore the law 17 USC 512 (i) and do not terminate repeat infringers. US Telecom makes >$400B a year, creative industries less than[/citation]
most music today blows, so thats why those sales are down.
and because of the mp3, they were forced to part out music instead of charge 10-20$ a disc for mayby 2 good songs.
video sales down? revenue down... you realize when vhs was around it was 30-40$ a vhs because of cost to manufacture, dvd was also retardedly expensive when it came out i believe at 80-100$ a disc, but is now down to 15$ is allot for a new movie.
videogames, they are continuing to break records, but they also cost a crap ton more to make now than the nes era. so i want to know if you are going gross or net with that.
and people giveing up tv... many shows are streamed online now, for free, a day or so after they air on tv, i know i would cut tv out of my life as its about 100$ here for cable with a box. that is 100$ for cable that can be replaced fairly well with just free online, and a 20$ netflix account.
and the thing that hurts companies the most... not adapting with the consumer wants, as they continue to try to kill innovation wherever they see it. they want the old business model to be there forever but it wont
[citation][nom]AnUnusedUsername[/nom]Eventually, SOMEONE will figure out that piracy isn't a problem, it's a symptom of trying to sell something that costs nothing to produce.Find a way to fund the actual production of music/software/media/etc before you do it. Don't take out a loan and then expect people to pay for what costs nothing for you to reproduce.Is it stealing if it costs nothing to produce the copy? I don't know, or really care (I think plagiarism is a more accurate term). I'm not concerned with the piracy issue, I'm concerned with the fact that digital files are incompatible with capitalism.[/citation]
nice thought, but doesnt work that way for the most part, you cant really kick starter a band or a movie, granted if you already have a movie and a band and make an extreme low quality song or movie and ask for money to make it better... that could work, but fact is most things you want will put you in some form of debt. kickstarter for games only really works when you have someone with the talent to put it together, not just someone wants to make a game with only works to tell you at that point.
[citation][nom]jaquith[/nom]Hmm...Music use Spotify/Pandora or similar streaming service, Movies use HULU or similar streaming service, Applications use a 'free' ones (OpenOffice, GIMP, ... you name it), OS use Linux (Ubuntu), etc..etc. There's SOooo much free stuff there's little reason to waste your time.Now for 'Games' I really prefer to purchase them especially if you're going to Multiplayer. If you have an Xbox then a rental service e.g. GameFly.If you've got money then (paid) Music Spotify or Rhapsody, Movies Netflix, etc.Bottom-line, there's very little reason to 'steal' via BitTorrent services not to mention the very high risk of infecting your PC.I'm not judging and frankly I don't give a rip what other folks do -- as long as it doesn't affect me. However, stealing crap only makes everyone else's costs go up![/citation]
old tv shows that will never come to the light of day
old specials that will never be released
old music, that went throught the loudness war and thats the only version they sell now
old games that will most likley never come to the light of day again.
pleanty of things that you cant get outside of piracy, and i just made some examples.
[citation][nom]BriboCN[/nom]Nice try buddy. This is a legal issue pure and simple. Google and ISPs use teams of lawyers to protect their positions. Verizon and Time Warner are coming up with this throttling system not because they believe it is morally right to stop people who pirate games and movies, but because if they do nothing they will find themselves in a lawsuit they will likely lose. They are doing what they believe is the bare minimum that will keep themselves on a solid legal footing. Want to prove a moral right to download "illegal" content? Raise a ton of money and hire a top notch legal team and begin bribing, I mean donating to the campaigns of politicians that will support you.[/citation]
um, not they wont, they arent held liable at all for what their customers do. otherwise crap would hit the fan hard when they get subpoenaed and dont give customer info over.
they want to throttle because they offer 75 down and 5 up and they don't upgrade infostructure sufficiently, they cant handle the load, so they want to have some way to turn people internet lower and not look bad doing it because they "may have" pirated something.
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