Vista - this review, its promise and DRM

[mad_murdock]

With all do respect, anyone that's willing to watch a crappy quality VCD of a crappy recording with crappy audio is never going to bother with movie tickets or buying DVDs.

Besides, Hollywood makes plenty of money on movies on DVD (they generally make as much on DVD as they do in theaters).

Well, that is the funny thing of it. They have Movie night normally twice a month. And they buy more DVDs then most other people I know. They work more under the rule of, Try before I buy. The movies they really want to see, they go to the movies, after that they rent movies and then they Buy the ones they enjoyed best.

The ones that don't know about or think won't be that good, they buy the cheapo VCD versions. Their reasoning is the same I've heard from people who download video games. And that is, they should be paying me to watch this. I'm doign them a favor by playing\watching it.

Of course, most anti piracy methods aren't going to completely stop anything. It's much like in Virginia where it is against the law to have a radar detector. It doesn't stop people from speeding, it just makes it easier to catch people.

This DRM isn't going to stopped the focused groups, but I do believe they will make it a royal pain in the ass for most, and the casual thief will find it too much trouble.

 

[photographer]

Why is everyone blaming Microsoft ? They certainly didn't initiate DRM. And remember that the DMCA was enacted on May 14, 1998. Yeah, it's taken 9 years for this to finally get into the OS ! And how about starting with Sony ? All Microsoft is doing is obeying the laws that have been enacted since everyone started downloading illegal content from the internet. Do you think even Microsoft wants to tangle with Sony on the issue of DRM which they would certainly loose ? And it's all a knee-jerk reaction however one that was bound to come given the trillions of dollars companies have lost to piracy. The pendulum always swings to the extremes when first set in motion. Hopefully in about 15~20 years there will be some median point where all can agree on what is fair use. The companies providing the content need to realize that they're missing out on a great market and the end users need to remember the law and how it relates to copyright. Something that most people have absolutely no clue on.

 

[HotFoot]

This DRM isn't going to stopped the focused groups, but I do believe they will make it a royal pain in the ass for most, and the casual thief will find it too much trouble.

I'm not terribly concerned about how much trouble the DRM causes "casual theives". When I think of DRM, I think of how much more difficult it makes it for me to use the content that I purchase. How can I set up a nice movie library on my computer if the content comes wrapped in layers of DRM? Well, I still can, but I have to jump through hoops and subvert the law to do it.

Why is Microsoft advertising fantastic ideas such as virtualising your office PC so that it can act as a media server as well and wirelessly stream entertainment content to your living room if you'd have to break the law just to load that media server with content? Did I break the law when I made mp3 copies of my CD collection to load on my HTPC and portable mp3 player? This is a bum wrap.

 

[nilepez]

This DRM isn't going to stopped the focused groups, but I do believe they will make it a royal pain in the ass for most, and the casual thief will find it too much trouble.

I'm not terribly concerned about how much trouble the DRM causes "casual theives". When I think of DRM, I think of how much more difficult it makes it for me to use the content that I purchase. How can I set up a nice movie library on my computer if the content comes wrapped in layers of DRM? Well, I still can, but I have to jump through hoops and subvert the law to do it.

Why is Microsoft advertising fantastic ideas such as virtualising your office PC so that it can act as a media server as well and wirelessly stream entertainment content to your living room if you'd have to break the law just to load that media server with content? Did I break the law when I made mp3 copies of my CD collection to load on my HTPC and portable mp3 player? This is a bum wrap.

For some reason I thought we were going to be able to move movies onto LANs.

As for copying your CDs.....if the RIAA had their way it'd be illegal. The MPAA just happens to have managed to put DRM on content in such a way that it is illegal (in theory, as I'm not sure that backing up a DVD has ever been tested).

 

[Zorg]

I guess I should have been more specific. I think its greed on the part of MS, along with the desire to be the controling king of the industry. When everyone has to bow down to them or not have a place in computing, then they will have accomplished their goal of monopoly, and we, the consumers, will have no choice but to pay Microsoft whether we want to or not.

You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Zorg]

My concern is less about what Vista will require directly, since I can choose to keep XP installed on the HTPC or use another OS. My problem is that MS is requiring hardware manufacturers to change their products to enable what could be a simple function such as HD content playback.

Unless you've got some links to info that I've never seen, that's not MS, that's the studios that produce HD content.

As I understand the issues, your choices are no DRM, and no support for HD DVD/Blu-Ray in full resolution (if the studios turn the flags on) or you get DRM.

I don't like it, but these standards are being forced on MS (and presumably Apple) by the MPAA.

Respectfully, that is BS. M$ is attempting to control the HDCP channel. The MPAA can't force anything. Here is the link to the article with all of the scary information. Pleas read it in it's entirety.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

So you have a way to play HD DVD and Blu-Ray (without using some hack that probably breaks the laws in the U.S.A.) at full resolution?

If so, please enumerate the ways you can play back Blu-Ray and HD-DVD on those platforms at full resolution over non-hdcp compliant hardware (and for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that the bit that forces the downconversion of high def content has been turned on).

If you actually think that the studios, which REQUIRE ALL HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players to downgrade video over analog outputs IF a certain bit is turned on (it currently is not because it would obsolete too many TVs), then you're naive.

Most of this article is dealt with here.

My guess is if you were to go buy an HD drive and hook it up right now, it'd work, because the content protecition flags are turned off on most, if not all, released HD content.

WhenI said BS I was talking about how poor M$ had no choice but to do the bidding of the MPAA. No more no less. I read the party-line response to the article. I had no idea that the article was a complete fabrication and that Vista was so benign. Hey I've got a bridge for you, cheap. You should read some of the posts below the response. It appears not everyone is convinced.

 

[nilepez]

My concern is less about what Vista will require directly, since I can choose to keep XP installed on the HTPC or use another OS. My problem is that MS is requiring hardware manufacturers to change their products to enable what could be a simple function such as HD content playback.

Unless you've got some links to info that I've never seen, that's not MS, that's the studios that produce HD content.

As I understand the issues, your choices are no DRM, and no support for HD DVD/Blu-Ray in full resolution (if the studios turn the flags on) or you get DRM.

I don't like it, but these standards are being forced on MS (and presumably Apple) by the MPAA.

Respectfully, that is BS. M$ is attempting to control the HDCP channel. The MPAA can't force anything. Here is the link to the article with all of the scary information. Pleas read it in it's entirety.

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

So you have a way to play HD DVD and Blu-Ray (without using some hack that probably breaks the laws in the U.S.A.) at full resolution?

If so, please enumerate the ways you can play back Blu-Ray and HD-DVD on those platforms at full resolution over non-hdcp compliant hardware (and for the sake of this discussion, let's assume that the bit that forces the downconversion of high def content has been turned on).

If you actually think that the studios, which REQUIRE ALL HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players to downgrade video over analog outputs IF a certain bit is turned on (it currently is not because it would obsolete too many TVs), then you're naive.

Most of this article is dealt with here.

My guess is if you were to go buy an HD drive and hook it up right now, it'd work, because the content protecition flags are turned off on most, if not all, released HD content.

WhenI said BS I was talking about how poor M$ had no choice but to do the bidding of the MPAA. No more no less. I read the party-line response to the article. I had no idea that the article was a complete fabrication and that Vista was so benign. Hey I've got a bridge for you, cheap. You should read some of the posts below the response. It appears not everyone is convinced.

Fine, then show me an OS that support HD-DVD and Blu-Ray that doesn't do what MS is doing.

You may be correct, but I heard all of this when XP came out, and I avoided xp for many months, but in the end, I found there was nothing I couldn't do on XP that I could do on earlier OSs.

You call the MS entry the party line (and if this were some other topic, I'd probably agree with you), but the otehr paper just sounds like the anti-ms paper.

MS has done plenty of crappy stuff over the years, but this issue is one that's initiated by the MPAA and perhaps RIAA. If they didn't insist on DRM, I seriously doubt MS would bother with it....if they would, then we'd have seen DRM back in windows 95.

 

[Zorg]

Clearly, the original article is an anti M$ paper. But rest assured that the M$ response is the party-line. What do you expect them to say. It's all good, it's only for your own protection.. HA HA HA. We would never, I mean almost never, revoke a driver. And I'm sure, well reasonably certain, the new driver would be available first. Well, unless it couldn't be done in time. But understand this whole driver thing I'm sure would be used in only the rarest of occasions and really, now that I think of it, probably never used at all. HA HA HA

If your card is 2-3 years old and Nvidia and ATI are busting there proverbial asses trying to comply with Vista's "robustness" requirements you may not ever get a driver that does comply. It's ok just go buy a new card.

I don't think you saw anything of this magnitude with the release of XP. Yes, the MPAA forced M$ to do this at gunpoint...NOT. M$ wants to control the HDCP channel and it looks like they are going to succeed. Oh, I left out, at our expense.

 

[sailer]

Hmmm... I got to wondering if HDCP DRM compliance has anything to do with the delays in the launch of ATI's R600 GPUs. For that matter, did all the DRM have to do with the massive delays the blue-ray brought to the Sony PS3? Perhaps we consumers are already paying, one way or another, for the extra cost of DRM compliant hardware.

I've wondered similarly myself about the R600. Could it have been that the hardware (cards) was prepared, but the software didn't match Microsoft's ideas? Could be, but I have no answer.

 

[Zorg]

Hmmm... I got to wondering if HDCP DRM compliance has anything to do with the delays in the launch of ATI's R600 GPUs. For that matter, did all the DRM have to do with the massive delays the blue-ray brought to the Sony PS3? Perhaps we consumers are already paying, one way or another, for the extra cost of DRM compliant hardware.

I've wondered similarly myself about the R600. Could it have been that the hardware (cards) was prepared, but the software didn't match Microsoft's ideas? Could be, but I have no answer.

To my knowledge there are no HDCP GPUs currently available. I imagine that ATI wants the R600 to be the first, so it is probably a good bet that HDCP compliance is the hold up. Welcome to the future of computing.

 

[sailer]

I think that some of you need to check your medication. This thread remind me of one those "the government is trying to poison us" stories. If there are that many problems it will be addressed. At this point I really couldn't be bothered as don't use my PC for movie or music. Also I did read the whole article with all of the planted conclusions mixed in with the facts.

My medications are closely monitored by the U.S. government, and no, I don't think its trying to poison me. I do know that MS has been in trouble for years with not only the U.S. government, but also with the governments in Europe for its monopolistic practices. I think these Vista problems are just another symtom of M$ trying to monopolize everything, at the expense of the people, of course.

Since you don't use your PC for music or movies, you aren't as much affected as those of us who do. Its those of us who do that will care, and will be forced to pay. And in teh end, everybody will pay, even you.

 

[Zorg]

I think that some of you need to check your medication. This thread remind me of one those "the government is trying to poison us" stories. If there are that many problems it will be addressed. At this point I really couldn't be bothered as don't use my PC for movie or music. Also I did read the whole article with all of the planted conclusions mixed in with the facts.

My medications are closely monitored by the U.S. government, and no, I don't think its trying to poison me. I do know that MS has been in trouble for years with not only the U.S. government, but also with the governments in Europe for its monopolistic practices. I think these Vista problems are just another symtom of M$ trying to monopolize everything, at the expense of the people, of course.

Since you don't use your PC for music or movies, you aren't as much affected as those of us who do. Its those of us who do that will care, and will be forced to pay. And in teh end, everybody will pay, even you.


No the government isn't trying to poison us. The government, and when I say government I'm referring to FED, State and local, is trying to keep us on camera 24 hours a day. Light cams, speeding cams, aggressive driver cams on the beltway, cameras on every street corner. But understand it's for your own safety, they are only trying to protect you from yourself. Thank God for these helpful people, I honestly don't know how we got along without them.

Now for M$, they are just trying to make more money with no consideration as to how they get it.

In an earlier post someone mentioned George Orwell's 1984. I think we are there.

 

[sailer]

In an earlier post someone mentioned George Orwell's 1984. I think we are there.

I mentioned Orwell's 1984, and I think you're right. Most people just don't realize it. Of course, most people don't read anymore either, especially young people, so they haven't read Orwell and don't know what the book 1984 is.

 

[Zorg]

In an earlier post someone mentioned George Orwell's 1984. I think we are there.

I mentioned Orwell's 1984, and I think you're right. Most people just don't realize it. Of course, most people don't read anymore either, especially young people, so they haven't read Orwell and don't know what the book 1984 is.

Kudos, I saw that and thought for .2 seconds and agreed whole heartedly.

 

[nilepez]

Clearly, the original article is an anti M$ paper. But rest assured that the M$ response is the party-line. What do you expect them to say. It's all good, it's only for your own protection.. HA HA HA. We would never, I mean almost never, revoke a driver. And I'm sure, well reasonably certain, the new driver would be available first. Well, unless it couldn't be done in time. But understand this whole driver thing I'm sure would be used in only the rarest of occasions and really, now that I think of it, probably never used at all. HA HA HA

If your card is 2-3 years old and Nvidia and ATI are busting there proverbial asses trying to comply with Vista's "robustness" requirements you may not ever get a driver that does comply. It's ok just go buy a new card.

I don't think you saw anything of this magnitude with the release of XP. Yes, the MPAA forced M$ to do this at gunpoint...NOT. M$ wants to control the HDCP channel and it looks like they are going to succeed. Oh, I left out, at our expense.

I'll ask again, what machines will allow you to play back MPAA products without those types of constraints? And assuming it's possible that drivers can be written for old cards that would comply, might it be that Nvidia and AMD have opted not to bust their assesso they get more money from the high end buyers?

But bottom line is I've yet to here an example of another OS that can play back HD content that doesn't require end to end DRM, and I've asked at least 2 or 3 times.

 

[Zorg]

Clearly, the original article is an anti M$ paper. But rest assured that the M$ response is the party-line. What do you expect them to say. It's all good, it's only for your own protection.. HA HA HA. We would never, I mean almost never, revoke a driver. And I'm sure, well reasonably certain, the new driver would be available first. Well, unless it couldn't be done in time. But understand this whole driver thing I'm sure would be used in only the rarest of occasions and really, now that I think of it, probably never used at all. HA HA HA

If your card is 2-3 years old and Nvidia and ATI are busting there proverbial asses trying to comply with Vista's "robustness" requirements you may not ever get a driver that does comply. It's ok just go buy a new card.

I don't think you saw anything of this magnitude with the release of XP. Yes, the MPAA forced M$ to do this at gunpoint...NOT. M$ wants to control the HDCP channel and it looks like they are going to succeed. Oh, I left out, at our expense.

I'll ask again, what machines will allow you to play back MPAA products without those types of constraints? And assuming it's possible that drivers can be written for old cards that would comply, might it be that Nvidia and AMD have opted not to bust their assesso they get more money from the high end buyers?

But bottom line is I've yet to here an example of another OS that can play back HD content that doesn't require end to end DRM, and I've asked at least 2 or 3 times.

I'm pretty sure Nvidia and ATI are in a panic over hardware and driver compliance. I don't actually know because I don't work there. There were some ATI quotes in the article that would lead me to believe that was the case. Not to mention they can't sell it until it's released, and that is ultimately how they make there money.

As for another OS that can play HDCP, I don't know nor do I care, however I suspect none. All I care about is the absolute turmoil that the industry is in, trying to comply with Vista's HDCP. I also care about the several other points made in the article that were not rebuffed by M$ to my satisfaction.

I have a 60" 1080 Sony with XTAL If I gave a crap about HD-DVD or BlueRay I would buy a player and plug it in. I am personally boycotting HD-DVD and BlueRay. They can roll it up and stuff it. I hope all involved in this nefarious activity loose a lot of money. It's the only thing that they understand.

 

[mad_murdock]

"ZorgAs for another OS that can play HDCP, I don't know nor do I care, however I suspect none. All I care about is the absolute turmoil that the industry is in, trying to comply with Vista's HDCP. I also care about the several other points made in the article that were not rebuffed by M$ to my satisfaction.

I'm still scratching my head on this. First, I'm trying to figure out how many people really watch DVDs on the old PC, except for travelers, it's hard to imagine this is a large number of users, So aren't we talking about maybe 1-5% of PC users ? Of course, maybe the Media Center people are greater then I thought.

But why don't you care about other OSes ? I mean it's kinda hard to take your arguement completely serious when you use that hackneyed reference to "M$". If you are so anti-M$, why aren't you using Linux, Mac or something else ? I don't get people who bash Microsoft all day long, but refuse to move to another OS. If a mere 30% of the people dropped windows and the PC and bought a MAC, then I'm sure Microsoft would get the message. Why is it, none of the MS haters want to do that ?

And what money is Microsoft making here ? Do they get a cut of the profits from the MPAA ? Why do they care, if people steal movies ? How do they (being Microsoft) rob us blind, by having strict DRM ?

I will agree with you on one thing, if Microsoft, or anyone's DRM is too intrusive\restrictive and it actually takes value away from having DVDs or CDs, I do hope that everyone chooses to avoid the said product or products like the plague. Of course, I hope those same people write letters to said companies and tell them why they are avoiding the products. Else, Microsoft and groups like the MPAA and RIAA, may never get the message.

Not that I'm a total yes man to everything, in fact I would like nothing better than to see Hollywood, the Music industry and professional sports all come crashing down. No person is worth $25+ million a year, a movie or a album. We the fanatical consumers are partly to blame for creating this over-hyped marterlistic world, and so it's hard to blame the MPAA and RIAA for wanting to protect thier investment in their $20+ million a film actors and singers. In fairness, we ask them to spend $150+ million making Pirates, and then we say, "just trust us that we won't copy it and pass it around freely"

Cut the cost of the average film down to $10 million and make singers do road tours for their cash and the MPAA, RIAA and the DRM will be irrelevent.

 

[photographer]

I liked most of your post, however, it is bald or bold faced greed on the part of M$.

Close but not quite. They're covering their assetts. If they don't enact all of the DRM mandates Sony and others will have them over a barrell. It's that simple. Stop making it overly complicated. Microsoft could give a care if you rip a video as long as you purchase their products. Who stands to loose ? Sony and other groups that push DRM. Sure microsoft did a "Me to" on DRM. They had to or they would have been caught in a legal battle with companies bigger than they are. One thing Gates and Co. aren't is stupid. They know when to fight and when to live to fight another day.

 

[clue69less]

I liked most of your post, however, it is bald or bold faced greed on the part of M$.

Close but not quite. They're covering their assetts. If they don't enact all of the DRM mandates Sony and others will have them over a barrell. It's that simple. Stop making it overly complicated. Microsoft could give a care if you rip a video as long as you purchase their products. Who stands to loose ? Sony and other groups that push DRM. Sure microsoft did a "Me to" on DRM. They had to or they would have been caught in a legal battle with companies bigger than they are. One thing Gates and Co. aren't is stupid. They know when to fight and when to live to fight another day.

Your post conjurs up a vision of MS being dragged into DRM. I see them rather laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[sailer]

I liked most of your post, however, it is bald or bold faced greed on the part of M$.

Close but not quite. They're covering their assetts. If they don't enact all of the DRM mandates Sony and others will have them over a barrell. It's that simple. Stop making it overly complicated. Microsoft could give a care if you rip a video as long as you purchase their products. Who stands to loose ? Sony and other groups that push DRM. Sure microsoft did a "Me to" on DRM. They had to or they would have been caught in a legal battle with companies bigger than they are. One thing Gates and Co. aren't is stupid. They know when to fight and when to live to fight another day.

Oh really? If Microsoft really cared about the consumer, they would have provided a simple OS and told Sony etc to make their own add-ins for the DRM. We download or buy all kinds of software that isn't part of the OS as it is. All M$ had to do was to make a port of some type so the software could be installed by the person that wanted to use it. That's called freedom, the freedom for the individual to make a choice of what he wants to do. As it is, they are trying to impose a type of fascism that says, "You will do what we tell you to do, you will say what we tell you to say, you will think what we tell you to think. You have no other choice".

Sony, etc. does not have M$ over a barrel. Microsoft could have simply maintained that they were a computer software and OS company and that if Sony, etc. wanted to have restrictions, then they were free to impose them. That way, only those who wanted to go through the DRM process would have gone through it, while the rest of us could do what we wanted. That way, if Sony, etc. lost their shirt with stuff people wouldn't buy, they would learn a lesson and produce something that they could sell. As it is, the consumers will have to pay for it whether they use it or not, both in increased costs and slower performance.

 

[gomerpile]

I live to decode the crap, they say hacking windows, but as me testing the vista and using my current modified tools to write and change the codes for vista it’s been fun and interesting. DRM is hackable currently I have a DVD I bought and was told the DRM coding will prevent the copy; Ha I say, look inside the scripts and make your own. Hardware is tricky and requires little more work but like all hardware and readable information it still uses binary code. Problem how to copy something that is not readable by the OS and only DRM hardware? Just like every other, scripts in the roots of the drm and bingo a good copy of a DVD bypassing the DRM. Uncopyable I laugh. The trick is tools and in some a soldering iron

 

[HotFoot]

I hope I don't have to dig out a soldering iron to make future hardware upgrades work with Ubuntu! I would like to be able to play the new high-def content on my HTPC, but in the worst case scenario, if I just can't without complying to MS or MPAA demands, then I just won't buy the over-DRM'd content. That's voting with my dollars.

Besides, I really think the future of content distribution should be online. Why have all the added expense of production, warehousing, transportation, and retail when direct digital distribution is the obvious answer? I'm glad for itune's success. Now I'm glad to see some legal downloading sites moving away from DRM. I've never used itunes, even though I think it's a great idea, simply because I can't use the content once I've paid for it. It simply won't play on my Creative mp3 player. Another case of DRM being used for anti-competitive motives. I say the anti-trust laws have let us consumers down since really we don't have much choice.

Again, some music download sites are moving away from DRM. A lot of people will pay for content because they believe it's the right thing to do, not because DRM forces them away from pirated alternatives. Now if the movie/tv industry moved the same way, that'd be awesome.

The other issue is price. $1/song is a rip-off, considering none of the savings of skipping the aforementioned warehousing/retail etc. costs are being passed on to the consumer. The same applies for any potential movie download business. If I have to pay $20-30 for a downloaded movie, then I'm being over-charged.

 

[stefx]

Many thanks to the moderator for moving this out of the heatsinks forum

 

[Zorg]

"ZorgAs for another OS that can play HDCP, I don't know nor do I care, however I suspect none. All I care about is the absolute turmoil that the industry is in, trying to comply with Vista's HDCP. I also care about the several other points made in the article that were not rebuffed by M$ to my satisfaction.

I'm still scratching my head on this. First, I'm trying to figure out how many people really watch DVDs on the old PC, except for travelers, it's hard to imagine this is a large number of users, So aren't we talking about maybe 1-5% of PC users ? Of course, maybe the Media Center people are greater then I thought.

But why don't you care about other OSes ? I mean it's kinda hard to take your arguement completely serious when you use that hackneyed reference to "M$". If you are so anti-M$, why aren't you using Linux, Mac or something else ? I don't get people who bash Microsoft all day long, but refuse to move to another OS. If a mere 30% of the people dropped windows and the PC and bought a MAC, then I'm sure Microsoft would get the message. Why is it, none of the MS haters want to do that ?

And what money is Microsoft making here ? Do they get a cut of the profits from the MPAA ? Why do they care, if people steal movies ? How do they (being Microsoft) rob us blind, by having strict DRM ?

I will agree with you on one thing, if Microsoft, or anyone's DRM is too intrusive\restrictive and it actually takes value away from having DVDs or CDs, I do hope that everyone chooses to avoid the said product or products like the plague. Of course, I hope those same people write letters to said companies and tell them why they are avoiding the products. Else, Microsoft and groups like the MPAA and RIAA, may never get the message.

Not that I'm a total yes man to everything, in fact I would like nothing better than to see Hollywood, the Music industry and professional sports all come crashing down. No person is worth $25+ million a year, a movie or a album. We the fanatical consumers are partly to blame for creating this over-hyped marterlistic world, and so it's hard to blame the MPAA and RIAA for wanting to protect thier investment in their $20+ million a film actors and singers. In fairness, we ask them to spend $150+ million making Pirates, and then we say, "just trust us that we won't copy it and pass it around freely"

Cut the cost of the average film down to $10 million and make singers do road tours for their cash and the MPAA, RIAA and the DRM will be irrelevent.

First, It isn't only the people that are watching HD-DVD on their computers that will be affected. Everyone will be affected including those using other operating systems. M$ is forcing the hardware manufacturers into their DRM scheme. I'm not against M$ with regards to XP. I've used it for years and never had any problems with it. I have Vista RC1 on one of my drives. I don't really care for it because of the layout and that it is too helpful(too much loss of control). I have Kubuntu on a drive, it's OK but I haven't spent the time to find a driver for my ATI X850. I use a Linux firewall. What concerns me is that Vista, in advancement of DRM, is screwing with the entire industry. I am assuming that you have read the article in my signature.

 

[exisnet]

You are right fair usage is important, but that pales in comparison to the revelations in the article. Don't loose sight of what is happening to the computer industry. Am I the only one that can see the gravity of what M$ is trying to pull off?

Your not the only one, please join us @ http://badvista.fsf.org/