VZW internal blacklist?

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:aIqjc.27487$X14.15380@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

>
> Scott I noticed your reply and in many cases folks in or out of a
> bankruptcy are also good candidates for credit since they cannot use
> that protection for many a years and the credit lenders know it. So I
> don't feel sorry for them.
>

I'm sorry- any failure to allow bills to go to the point where they and up
on a credit report shows a disregard for complete financial responsibility.
By this, I mean that in times of hard luck, the first types of bills that
people choose not to pay are usually the luxury credit items, which are the
same type you are talking about trying to get again. Yes- in some cases,
there are legitimate reasons for this to happen. However, these represent a
small portion of cases, and the lender has no way to verify why the debt
wasn't paid- it just wasn't paid. And there is no guarantee to the lender
that these legitimate reasons might not reoccur. Can you guarantee that you
won't lose your job again, get sick again, get divorced again?

In this thread and another, you have mentioned both an unpaid credit card on
a credit report, and an apparent old, unpaid obligation to Verizon. You
can't question Verizon's reluctance to treat it as a good credit risk-
they've already been burned once.

 

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:EKCdnfQViafBjhLdRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
<snip>
>
> In this thread and another, you have mentioned both an unpaid credit
card on
> a credit report, and an apparent old, unpaid obligation to Verizon.
You
> can't question Verizon's reluctance to treat it as a good credit
risk-
> they've already been burned once.
>
>

Scott, were not talking about credit of mine. I have great credit. The
thread was started by a guy named Breezy. It is still going on in
another thread.
What I pointed out was that circumstance of economic loss and other
factors can and will cause good folks to have difficulty in making
their payments, the credit industry is just as much to blame as the
consumer.

I have been a customer of Verizon and Cellular one from they day they
opened their doors. Never missed a payment. Then again if odd chance
was to befall me then hey the company can do what they want. But, not
as a wilily nilly as trying to collect a debt past its legal limits.
(Which is what the original poster was talking about)

Elector

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:EKCdnfQViafBjhLdRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
<snip>
> In this thread and another, you have mentioned both an unpaid credit
card on
> a credit report, and an apparent old, unpaid obligation to Verizon.
You
> can't question Verizon's reluctance to treat it as a good credit
risk-
> they've already been burned once.
>
>
[Please remember to get whom is speaking/posting to the correct
poster]

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From: "Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: alt.cellular.verizon
Subject: VZW internal blacklist?
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Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who
owe
money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?

I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because
of an
old unpaid house phone bill.

VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that
bad. He
has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with
the bad
credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval
for
credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.

I am realy curious about this.






[My first reply which was to your posting to Breezy]


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From: "Elector" <elector@my-deja.com>
Newsgroups: alt.cellular.verizon
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"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:rYWdnTnew_SUVhfdRVn_iw@adelphia.com...
<snip>
> I would imagine they do. And unlike the credit bureaus, they can
keep these
> records and pursue the balance for as long as they like.
>
>

No they are bound by the same statute of limitations on the
collections of debts depending on your state of residence. Most are 6
years and only the original creditor can initiate the collections in
that time frame. They must show diligence in trying to collect and if
they let it sit for over that time they can get scratch.

I had a friend at work that left an apartment and never got the
electric bill from his last month at the old place sent to the new
address even though he had gas and electric at it. What the gas
company did was turn it over to their lawyers and they got a judgment
which is good for 10 years, even though he never knew it until he
bought his home and then since the ten years were not up or not
renewed he was forced to pay the original bill plus interest. He paid
almost $1,300.00 for $200 bill owed. (Lawyers fees were tacked on and
poundage etc.) he was livid.

The company can keep the internal record of the amount owed but can do
squat unless they tried to collect within that time span.

Elector

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:BOLjc.121125$M3.70850@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:EKCdnfQViafBjhLdRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
> <snip>
> > In this thread and another, you have mentioned both an unpaid credit
> card on
> > a credit report, and an apparent old, unpaid obligation to Verizon.
> You
> > can't question Verizon's reluctance to treat it as a good credit
> risk-
> > they've already been burned once.
> >
> >
> [Please remember to get whom is speaking/posting to the correct
> poster]
>
<snip>

You are totally right- I'd blame my error on old age, but am not willing to
admit to that yet. Please accept my deepest apologies.

>
> The company can keep the internal record of the amount owed but can do
> squat unless they tried to collect within that time span.
>

No- they can choose not to provide service to you a second time. They are
under no obligation to provide service to everyone, and as long as they are
consistent in their application of the policy, not in violation of any fair
trade laws.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8GLjc.120944$M3.65493@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
> news:EKCdnfQViafBjhLdRVn-hA@adelphia.com...
> <snip>
> >
> > In this thread and another, you have mentioned both an unpaid credit
> card on
> > a credit report, and an apparent old, unpaid obligation to Verizon.
> You
> > can't question Verizon's reluctance to treat it as a good credit
> risk-
> > they've already been burned once.
> >
> >
>
> Scott, were not talking about credit of mine. I have great credit. The
> thread was started by a guy named Breezy. It is still going on in
> another thread.
> What I pointed out was that circumstance of economic loss and other
> factors can and will cause good folks to have difficulty in making
> their payments, the credit industry is just as much to blame as the
> consumer.

You're right and I screwed up- I'm sorry I got you confused. Nothing in
your posts indicates bad credit on your part, and now that my brain fart is
over, I don't want to imply otherwise.

>
> I have been a customer of Verizon and Cellular one from they day they
> opened their doors. Never missed a payment. Then again if odd chance
> was to befall me then hey the company can do what they want. But, not
> as a wilily nilly as trying to collect a debt past its legal limits.
> (Which is what the original poster was talking about)
>

The OP was not stating that Verizon was trying to collect the old debt.
They were stating that VZ was asking for a high deposit on a new account,
which may be the result of an old account that was never paid in full. I am
in total agreement with you that once the time limit has expired, no company
has the right to collect that debt. But I believe they are well within
their rights to protect themselves with new accounts based on previous
internal payment history, no matter how old.

It looks like we really got our wires crossed on this one- shall we try
again with a clean slate?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Scott Stephenson <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote:

>> The company can keep the internal record of the amount owed but can do
>> squat unless they tried to collect within that time span.
>>
>
> No- they can choose not to provide service to you a second time. They are
> under no obligation to provide service to everyone, and as long as they are
> consistent in their application of the policy, not in violation of any fair
> trade laws.

Actually, I think you're both right. Elector seems to know the NYS laws
pretty well, so I am assuming he's right. BUT he's talking about collections
activity. You're saying the company is under no obligation to extended credit
a second time, and you're right, but you're both right about different things.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, Apple Valley, CA PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:xO6dnVWMXty-vg3dRVn-tA@adelphia.com...
> It looks like we really got our wires crossed on this one- shall we
try
> again with a clean slate?
>
>

No Problem.. 🙂

Elector

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:jsydnVC3b8fzvA3dRVn-vw@adelphia.com...
<snip>
> No- they can choose not to provide service to you a second time. They are
> under no obligation to provide service to everyone, and as long as they
are
> consistent in their application of the policy, not in violation of any
fair
> trade laws.
>
>

The utilities are under the Public Service Commission in New York State, it
is their guidelines and regulations that the companies are under. In the
case of the gas company or electric company or even the telephone company
(landline) they MUST provide service even if you owe them money. It the law.

However the wireless segment of the telephone company may not be under the
public service commission rules and regs. I will look in McKinney's laws
this afternoon if I get the chance. If they are for sake of discussion then
any internal black list would be "illegal" and non-enforceable outside of
the regular collection laws which are in place. A good analogy of this would
be a consumer gets a Chapter 7 and the company although forbidden by federal
law cannot collect the debt later notes that you once owed it and now
refuses service. The company is now in violation of not only federal statute
but state law as well.

That is why I am assuming here that any sort of internal black list would be
highly suspicious as to being enforceable. Remember a few years ago those
stupid commercials were this lady was cut off while talking on her home
phone and the ad states " Get a new connection and keep your existing number
even if you owe money to the phone company" I wish I could remember that
company.

Elector

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Elector" <elector@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:f36kc.39626$2v.2694@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
>

> >
> >
>
> The utilities are under the Public Service Commission in New York State,
it
> is their guidelines and regulations that the companies are under. In the
> case of the gas company or electric company or even the telephone company
> (landline) they MUST provide service even if you owe them money. It the
law.

True, but we are not dealing with a utility- at least not yet. It wouldn't
surprise me to see cellular added to the list at some point.

>
> However the wireless segment of the telephone company may not be under the
> public service commission rules and regs. I will look in McKinney's laws
> this afternoon if I get the chance. If they are for sake of discussion
then
> any internal black list would be "illegal" and non-enforceable outside of
> the regular collection laws which are in place. A good analogy of this
would
> be a consumer gets a Chapter 7 and the company although forbidden by
federal
> law cannot collect the debt later notes that you once owed it and now
> refuses service. The company is now in violation of not only federal
statute
> but state law as well.

If all of your statements apply to utilities under the control of the PSC, I
agree. However, I don't think the same logic or analogy can be applied to
those not under the regulation of the PSC. Another analogy would be that I
own a business and you do business with me to the tune of $1000, which is
ultimately wiped out through bankruptcy. Ten years later, you come to me
again and ask for my services. I remember our previous relationship and
decide you are not the type of customer I want to do business with. I would
be within my rights in using my personal 'blacklist' to determine who I want
to do business with- is it any different?

>
> That is why I am assuming here that any sort of internal black list would
be
> highly suspicious as to being enforceable. Remember a few years ago those
> stupid commercials were this lady was cut off while talking on her home
> phone and the ad states " Get a new connection and keep your existing
number
> even if you owe money to the phone company" I wish I could remember that
> company.
>

But remember one thing- in this case, the OP is not stating that they are
being refused service. Instead, VZ is asking for a very high deposit,and is
willing to do business once the deposit requirement is met. If the internal
list is used to not deny service, but determine the terms of new service,
I'm not sure they are out of bounds in any way.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Well, if you want to call it a blacklist, I guess you can. All the
credit dept has to do is type in your Social Security number, and your
info comes up if you had an account with them in the past. Your past
performance is taken into account if you apply for a new account. If
you haven't had an account with them, they just go off data from
credit bureaus (Experian is the main one they use). People with no
credit history at all are usually asked for a $400 deposit. To be
asked for a $1000 deposit, you must have either stiffed them in the
past, or your credit bureau history is bad (worse than your friend has
told you.)


"Breezy" <suziq4you2@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<V8zic.21659$aQ6.1320120@attbi_s51>...
> Does anyone know if VZW maintains an internal blacklist of people who owe
> money to Verizon (land line) or Verizon Busness Services?
>
> I think my freind is getting the big ($1000) deposit excuse, because of an
> old unpaid house phone bill.
>
> VZW is say its his credit but we've gone over it and it's not that bad. He
> has Gotten a mortgage, car loan, credit cards and other credit with the bad
> credit VZW is talking about. Yesterday He applied for and got approval for
> credit at Cingular, T-Mobile and Sprint, without a deposit.
>
> I am realy curious about this.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Scott Stephenson" <scott.stephensonson@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:SIKdnVRKD_-xHAzdRVn-jA@adelphia.com...
<snip>
> But remember one thing- in this case, the OP is not stating that
they are
> being refused service. Instead, VZ is asking for a very high
deposit,and is
> willing to do business once the deposit requirement is met. If the
internal
> list is used to not deny service, but determine the terms of new
service,
> I'm not sure they are out of bounds in any way.
>
>

Scott very true, in as much the original debt (the $1000.00 analogy)
was owed to you and is no longer collectable you would be right to
refuse service. In the telephone company and other utilities again
they cannot ask for certain things and must give service. And in that
you are also correct. As if they are a utility. And not a private
company.

I was looking at McKinney's today and could not find any laws relating
to deposits other than the land line companies that must pay interest
and must give back within 6 months etc. I also found something to the
effect that "utilities" may not discriminate against a customer in
securing service due to any income deriving from public assistance,
disability or social security, or where it can be established via
gender or marital status or sexual orientation. Then again it was
numerous in the information that it kept directing me to other volumes
such as General Business Obligations, CPLR, Public Utilities etc. I
would have to be a lawyer to figure it all out. ha ha

Elector