I had purchased an Asus GeForce 4 TI 4600 delux with 3d stereoscopic glasses. Here is what I observed... (albeit I was using dated hardware)
A. If you wear glasses already, stacking the glasses makes it difficult to wear. (I can't wear contacts....)
B. Nvidia's drivers at the time and games that used 3D were few and the ones that were there were clunky and buggy at best. I recently played Far Cry with them and it was difficult to get it to work with the glasses. When I did get the game to play, It was really cool up to the point I got motion sick driving around......
C. Stereoscopic is for solo's ... sharing your experience with others in the room without glasses is the pits.... If you have enough to go around it is fine.
D. I didn't like being tethered by a wire and when I went to LCD screen they were useless. (both desktop and projector) I went with the LCD projector because I couldn't stand the halo effect the DLP projectors had.
Stereoscopic glasses a fun novelty but not for everyone. For me it was a great waste of money (for the glasses and Video card) plus the heartache of gettiing it to work properly. They have been collecting dust since 2002......
A. If you wear glasses already, stacking the glasses makes it difficult to wear. (I can't wear contacts....)
B. Nvidia's drivers at the time and games that used 3D were few and the ones that were there were clunky and buggy at best. I recently played Far Cry with them and it was difficult to get it to work with the glasses. When I did get the game to play, It was really cool up to the point I got motion sick driving around......
C. Stereoscopic is for solo's ... sharing your experience with others in the room without glasses is the pits.... If you have enough to go around it is fine.
D. I didn't like being tethered by a wire and when I went to LCD screen they were useless. (both desktop and projector) I went with the LCD projector because I couldn't stand the halo effect the DLP projectors had.
Stereoscopic glasses a fun novelty but not for everyone. For me it was a great waste of money (for the glasses and Video card) plus the heartache of gettiing it to work properly. They have been collecting dust since 2002......
This will vary depending upon the type of glasses you wear and the type of LCS 3D glasses that you have bought. I have a wide selection of LCS 3D glasses and most are fine with the prescription glasses that I wear, but people's experience with this will vary considerably.
A LOT has changed in this since 2002.
There are wireless LCS 3D glasses available from eDimensional and others.
How about the drivers? That is more than half the battle.
[/quote]That is legitimate, I personally wear my glasses high on my nose and very close to my eyes, it is hard to get the shutter glasses to be on top of my glasses and still see through the LCD shutters.
Fair, did you actively search the nV website and Guru3D for the tweaks and latest drivers? I remember trying this on my 5200 a few years ago, aside from the piece of crap FX series chip being slow it worked.
Go back to my links to Barry Aldous and Planar. Two LCD monitors are required, but since it is a simple polarized filter they make clip-ons for $12 http://www.berezin.com/3d/3dglasses.htm#Polarized
See above, you can make a dual 19" LCD high-res monitor for 3D for under $500, using entirely new parts. If you currently use an LCD the cost is only 1 more LCD monitor and a mount and mirror. Good LCD's are currently under $200 new, used on ebay $150 or less.
The mirror is available for $40 for a 17" diagonal LCD http://www.telepromptermirrors.com/ The correct size is about 15"x10"
That card was likely too expensive true, I bought a $120 7900GS recently and it is a monster (I did put a Zalman with ramsinks on it and clocked it at 650mhz Core and 790mhz (DDR 1.58Ghz) RAM with a re-flash of the Firmware and a simple core voltmod).
A 7600GT is a good choice too, but the 7900GS is a killer card even stock. Basically it is a 7900 chip cut down to a 7800 level, imagine the performance.
The drivers are much improved, all I had to do was install the latest (93.81) drivers and the stereo drivers and I was playing Oblivion in 3D, Tomb Raider: Legend, etc.
You can do this with a standard hand mirror and two Monitors by the way (any kind) http://www.crystalcanyons.net/pages/TechNotes/DualMonitorDigitalViewing.shtm
Just skip to the part where he holds up the mirrors. Use a "clone" setup with two monitors in the "nview settings" part of the nvidia control panel.
In the "Stereo Properties" section choose "Planar Mirror left/right" and then apply the settings.
Arrange the monitors and hold up the mirror. Once it looks completely awesome go shopping on eBay for another LCD monitor to build a Planar setup, it is far superior to the hand-held mirror setup.
I haven't tested any rear projection DLPs but I think there's a good chance that many will work at 60Hz 3D (but not likely at 85Hz).
The only thing you need to perform a simple test is a pair of LCS 3D glasses and 3D Dongle ($50 from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000E91QIC/3dmovies-20 ).
I'm assuming you've already got a PC with an NVIDIA graphics card (even an older one will do).
Liquid Crystal Shutter (LCS) 3D Glasses DO NOT work with LCD projectors or LCD monitors.
It doesn't matter what refresh rate or pixel response rate (gtg) the LCD monitor or LCD projector has - it's to do with the way that the LCD monitor/projector outputs light and update alternate frames.
More technical information about why this is so is available in this technical paper:
http://www.cmst.curtin.edu.au/publicat/2006-30.pdf
"Compatibility of LCD Monitors with Frame-Sequential Stereoscopic 3D Visualisation"
My old projector the Sharp PG-M20x is DLP and can display up to 200hz. Specifically for XGA it does 140Hz (see manual here http://www.sharpusa.com/files/pro_man_PGM20X.pdf)
You can pick this up now for about $350 , a couple on ebay at the moment.
This is probably the cheapest option yet which won't have any flicker problems.
I'm just about to get a new projector (currently on Sanyo ZLV -Z4) perhaps thinking of the BENQ W9000 (or the JVC DLA-RS1U)
but I'm keen to make sure these work with the stereoscopic display. (For quality projectors I don't think the passive polarised dual projector set-up mentioned is an option)
Does anyone know if an LCOS type projector (ie the JVC one above ) will work steroscopically. ie are the pixels quick to refresh.
Anyone know if the BEnq one is compatible.
Thanks
You can pick this up now for about $350 , a couple on ebay at the moment.
This is probably the cheapest option yet which won't have any flicker problems.
I'm just about to get a new projector (currently on Sanyo ZLV -Z4) perhaps thinking of the BENQ W9000 (or the JVC DLA-RS1U)
but I'm keen to make sure these work with the stereoscopic display. (For quality projectors I don't think the passive polarised dual projector set-up mentioned is an option)
Does anyone know if an LCOS type projector (ie the JVC one above ) will work steroscopically. ie are the pixels quick to refresh.
Anyone know if the BEnq one is compatible.
Thanks
My projector room is 16' long allowing a screen size of 10'. I made a small swing away desktop for my office chair and set it up 8' from the screen. Awsome FOV. The general rule for a 1024x768 screen is 1 to 1.5 times away from the screen as it is wide. Closer and you start to see the pixelation.
John
Cleeve, was the projector directly in line with you, but above & behind you, or off to the side?
Your article inspired me and I'm planning on getting your same basic setup running soon
The reason I asked was, I was trying to figure out where to put the projector, but it seems pretty difficult to get all of these things at once:
-100" screen
-sitting directly in the center of the screen (width-wise)
-not blocking the projector with your body
-not sitting too far away
The only way I could think of was either ceiling mounted, or setting the projector off to the side of you, which my be awkward if you're not looking at the screen dead center (especially with the 3d effect).
Your article inspired me and I'm planning on getting your same basic setup running soon
The reason I asked was, I was trying to figure out where to put the projector, but it seems pretty difficult to get all of these things at once:
-100" screen
-sitting directly in the center of the screen (width-wise)
-not blocking the projector with your body
-not sitting too far away
The only way I could think of was either ceiling mounted, or setting the projector off to the side of you, which my be awkward if you're not looking at the screen dead center (especially with the 3d effect).
Cleeve, was the projector directly in line with you, but above & behind you, or off to the side?
Your article inspired me and I'm planning on getting your same basic setup running soon
The reason I asked was, I was trying to figure out where to put the projector, but it seems pretty difficult to get all of these things at once:
-100" screen
-sitting directly in the center of the screen (width-wise)
-not blocking the projector with your body
-not sitting too far away
The only way I could think of was either ceiling mounted, or setting the projector off to the side of you, which my be awkward if you're not looking at the screen dead center (especially with the 3d effect).
Pretty Much Every Projector can be Ceiling Mounted. The Kits are about $200-$250 to mount one, that is the very best way to do that. DA-Lite Screens are excellent too, a 100" Manual pull down should run you about $150 Shipped from someone like projectorpros.com
I was hoping to find a solution that didn't incur that extra $200-$250 expense (and effort) of ceiling mounting. I don't believe that was included in Cleeve's pricing of the sub-$1500 setup.
If you are wanting to go cheap, I think Newegg has a Universal Ceiling mount kit for projectors for $99... I am not sure that it works for all of them, but It might be worth a shot.
torque79
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wow what an interesting and enlightening article. Bravo Cleeve, I should have known you were the author when I was so interested from the start!
I really hope nvidia makes a new driver revision for the 8000 series cards and beyond, but I have a feeling it may be limited by all the DRM crap and HDCP requirements. I find it odd that ATI is completely out of the picture on this concept, unfortunately making it necessary to buy another video card for me. 🙁
I think a few people worded their replies poorly, making suggestions that the article may have been misleading or irresponsible because it only presented one method of 3d projection display. It's unfair to harp on Cleeve because he did not attempt more than one method, when he's using his own equipment and personal home to set it up. If he was in a test lab with a lot more resources, it would be more practical to ask for more. As for me, I am thoroughly happy to even know that one method exists for decent 3d gaming with current technology. It may not be the most perfect method, but it sure sounds easier to hook up than a lot of the other suggestions made (though I appreciate being informed of other options too, which is a very positive compliment to this forum's readers!).
I really hope nvidia makes a new driver revision for the 8000 series cards and beyond, but I have a feeling it may be limited by all the DRM crap and HDCP requirements. I find it odd that ATI is completely out of the picture on this concept, unfortunately making it necessary to buy another video card for me. 🙁
I think a few people worded their replies poorly, making suggestions that the article may have been misleading or irresponsible because it only presented one method of 3d projection display. It's unfair to harp on Cleeve because he did not attempt more than one method, when he's using his own equipment and personal home to set it up. If he was in a test lab with a lot more resources, it would be more practical to ask for more. As for me, I am thoroughly happy to even know that one method exists for decent 3d gaming with current technology. It may not be the most perfect method, but it sure sounds easier to hook up than a lot of the other suggestions made (though I appreciate being informed of other options too, which is a very positive compliment to this forum's readers!).
I was hoping to find a solution that didn't incur that extra $200-$250 expense (and effort) of ceiling mounting. I don't believe that was included in Cleeve's pricing of the sub-$1500 setup.
If you are wanting to go cheap, I think Newegg has a Universal Ceiling mount kit for projectors for $99... I am not sure that it works for all of them, but It might be worth a shot.You guys are shopping in the wrong places Monoprice.com has one for $17.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082803&p_id=3010&seq=1&format=2&style=
You can also get 25' and longer VGA cords for under $20, they are of high quality, I percieve no difference between a 3' cable and the 25' cable.
There are 8800 series drivers in the works, go to mtbs3d.com for some info and the beta drivers, so far they don't appear to work, but at least nvidia is working on it.
I don't find it odd, Nvidia has from the start had excellent driver support and Linux support, besides CAD and workstation products, all around they are just a more solid company, while ATI focuses on gamers. Not all of PC use is for Gaming, and I hope that ATI comes around, healthy competition will benefit the Nvidia products.
I too am using my own equipment in my personal home, and my setup cost the same amount ($1147 to be precise), I didn't ask that he attempt more than one method, just to give them honorable mention for existing.
I don't know, I seem to be blessed (cursed?) with the need and talent to tinker.
2 LCDs desktop monitors and an inexpensive mirror (~$40) are just 3 components, setting them up is not rocket science, also there are pictures. I will say that I am pretty sure that Cleeve can get his hands on 2 LCD monitors, even if he borrowed one or set it up at work. I do realize this is outside the scope of the article, namely projection of 3D, but it is a more viable solution for many, also it can't be more complex than shutterglasses because with passive glasses you have removed the complexity of the viewing apparatus and moved it to the display apparatus.
"Sounds easier to hook up" is ridiculous, the quality is very different and the scalability is not in question with glasses starting at ~$0.50. True this may not be the setup for everyone, but I encourage you to try shutter glasses and anaglyph and any method you deem within your reach to decide for yourself, that is the beauty of personal choice. My only complaint was that there are much better options available and before one invests heavily in this option they can at least leave the door open to other options.
For example the purchase of a new Da-Lite silver screen (for a price identical to that which is quoted in the article, and for which I provide a link above), does not preclude the use of the author's method, in fact it may improve contrast and brightness, while at the same time allowing polarized light to reflect off the screen intact should you decide to try a polarized projection method later (I don't know if you could rent some DLP projectors, but that would be one way to test which method is the most desirable for your situation).
I do point out that a darkened room is not the best place to try and run a cord to ones headgear, especially for many people viewing, it is a recipe for tripping, equipment damage and headaches. Ask me how I know, I tripped on a cord and damaged my LCD I was using for an Overhead-projector based project. Speaking of which, if you like to tinker a DIY LCD projector is an excellent way to do the dual-polarized projection. There is an enterprising fellow in Spain who has used 2 19" LCDs to enable High-Definition 3D movie and game playing, he even smoothed his wall and painted it silver. Very interesting, it is in the Plog section of Lumenlab.com forums.
Just curious, I know the test was done with the cheaper DLP projectors but I was wondering if anyone has tried a 3D setup to the other extream? No money concerns how would it look in 3D using the more expensive equipment like with the tripple (3) chip DLP projector and the most expensive video card produced today? I bet it is the abosolute best 3D it since it does not use a color wheel and with super fast Pixel response times coupled with the fastest mhz a video card can produce...
Money no object you would want to look into the $400 "projection shutter glasses" and a proper 3D projector.
OR,
A setup with 2 projectors and polarizing, this way the glasses are high-contrast, passive, and are much brighter than LCD shutter-glasses with no ghosting.
Please look back to my post to MR. Barry Aldous website, he has a setup with 2 polarized projectors.
ANY DLP will work with polarization, just get 2, wide-screen would be good.
It is interesting to note that in the 120Hz capable DLP projector category, there is currently a big gap between the DepthQ (800x600 @ 120Hz) and the next step up - projectors from Christie Mirage (3-chip, 1400x1050 @ 120Hz) or also from Barco. Don't expect much change from about US$50k for the lower models.
If you're interested in seeing what a high-end system is capable of, visit a 3D showing of "Meet the Robinsons" on a REAL D 3D cinema system - VERY high quality! These systems use a single 3-chip DLP projector running at 144 fps - usually a Christie CP2000 or a Barco DP100. There are about 700 REAL D systems around the world. Resolution is 2048x1080. Visit the REAL D website for a list of REAL D 3D cinema locations: www.reald.com
I definately wouldn't say that the 1080p BenQ W9000 DLP projector I'm thinking about getting is about $3,500 street price. (100Hz).
I'm still possibly interested in the passive polarised option though. Will this method work with LCD projectors as they are cheaper than DLP (I presume it would as they pixel decay time isn't relevant for this method)
torque79
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thanks for the input. actually, it's funny you mention the DIY projector project, as I built one already based on the old article on Tom's Hardware for building one with the overhead projector (I was looking all over lumenlab's website at the time). I did it on the cheap with old LCD's from ebay, but I had a hard time finding a used projector so bought a new lower-end one. The results are pretty good, I have it set up in a small room and built a homemade screen with a queensize bedsheet and cheap white shower curtains sewn together to make a 2.5mx2m screen (HUGE!).
I have read lots about people building enclosures for their LCD projectors to make them more visually appealing and more portable, but my engineering skills are lacking to go to that extent, and that's the only way I could see using two LCD projectors in tandem to be a practical cost for me currently, though adding an enclosure increases cost too. As for the mirror method with two monitors, I'm pretty happy with my 22" LCD and would be hesitant to buy a second 22" monitor I'd hardly use anyways, except for 3d gaming when I want it. I also watch a lot of television and movies on the computer, which would require removing the apparatus I suppose and I'm pretty darn lazy. 😉
HOWEVER, after my tour in Afghanistan starting January I'll have some money to spend, so I'd love to see some new Nvidia drivers and figure out a practical way to implement this (likely with a new store-bought projector). I certainly have a lot more reading to do if I'm going to make an informed decision about which method to use (if any), so far I am only basing my information on what scraps I've figured out from posts in this forum. Hooking up some wireless shutter glasses with an inverter and installing a driver sounds just too easy to consider another method using mirrors, dual projectors, fresnel lenses or whatever else, unless it makes a truly dramatic difference (this is just in my house for fun after all, i'm not doing professional presentations or charging admission).
I have read lots about people building enclosures for their LCD projectors to make them more visually appealing and more portable, but my engineering skills are lacking to go to that extent, and that's the only way I could see using two LCD projectors in tandem to be a practical cost for me currently, though adding an enclosure increases cost too. As for the mirror method with two monitors, I'm pretty happy with my 22" LCD and would be hesitant to buy a second 22" monitor I'd hardly use anyways, except for 3d gaming when I want it. I also watch a lot of television and movies on the computer, which would require removing the apparatus I suppose and I'm pretty darn lazy. 😉
HOWEVER, after my tour in Afghanistan starting January I'll have some money to spend, so I'd love to see some new Nvidia drivers and figure out a practical way to implement this (likely with a new store-bought projector). I certainly have a lot more reading to do if I'm going to make an informed decision about which method to use (if any), so far I am only basing my information on what scraps I've figured out from posts in this forum. Hooking up some wireless shutter glasses with an inverter and installing a driver sounds just too easy to consider another method using mirrors, dual projectors, fresnel lenses or whatever else, unless it makes a truly dramatic difference (this is just in my house for fun after all, i'm not doing professional presentations or charging admission).
I was hoping to find a solution that didn't incur that extra $200-$250 expense (and effort) of ceiling mounting. I don't believe that was included in Cleeve's pricing of the sub-$1500 setup.
If you are wanting to go cheap, I think Newegg has a Universal Ceiling mount kit for projectors for $99... I am not sure that it works for all of them, but It might be worth a shot.You guys are shopping in the wrong places Monoprice.com has one for $17.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10828&cs_id=1082803&p_id=3010&seq=1&format=2&style=
You can also get 25' and longer VGA cords for under $20, they are of high quality, I percieve no difference between a 3' cable and the 25' cable.
Awesome!! Have you used this particular Unit? How sturdy is it?
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