Want a Penryn processor crack open an apple!

[Kaldor]

^huh I have kids now?

If Hackintoshes weren't illegal I'd recommend one....

Sorry, was using an example. Basically you have something thats done 100% behind closed doors, its hits the real world and falls on its face.

 

[Shadow703793]

^^ its like "so how do I use this terminal thing...... (Im not going to comment on that ... :lol: )

Linux has an even lower useage and has even less viruses than a Mac but is more secure than a PC. Linux Rox...........

Not true. 90% of the Internet Webservers are Linux based. Now that's a LOT of webservers. Also many people use Linux too (like me) if you combine all linux distros they will out weigh Mac OS. Mac OS is BASED off of Linux for those who didn't know

 

[Shadow703793]

1. No viruses
4. The ability to use EFI, whatever that means
6. Face it, iwork is mac-only
7. ilife 08

1. See my previous posts.

4.

The Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) is a specification that defines a software interface between an operating system and platform firmware. EFI is intended as a significantly improved replacement of the old legacy BIOS firmware interface historically used by all IBM PC compatible personal computers.[1] The EFI specification was originally developed by Intel, and is now managed by the Unified EFI Forum and is officially known as Unified EFI (UEFI).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensible_Firmware_Interface
That has nothing to do with how the PC performs in real life, you may notice like a .01% difference with EFI but with OCing and other availabilities on legacy BIOS the PC platform easily outweigh EFI.

6 &7. You have smiler or better software for PC. Also you can run any of those apps on a Virtual Machine under Linux/Windows. For example
CinePaint (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint ) and GIMP (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP ) are software that even rival Photoshop,etc once you learn to use it.

 

[jimmysmitty]

And as far as the Unix part goes, that's partially true. Unix was designed first and foremost as a multi-user OS, so there had to be some security to keep the users from screwing with each others' files and with the system. DOS was designed as a single-user OS and by extension Windows-on-DOS was too. This meant no security initially. However, Windows NT was designed as a multi-user OS and does have the same general kinds of security available in it as Unix does. The problem is with the implementation. Windows NT variants had to run software than ran on Windows/DOS, which meant that the programs expected to run with unlimited privileges. Thus you had everybody on home machines run as administrator, bypassing much of NT's security. Vista tries to bring this under control with the limited user account being default and then prompting for privilege escalation, very similar to how Unix does that. The Macintosh fans go and poke fun at UAC for having the same type of privilege escalation than Unix has but in the next breath say that OS X is great because it is based on Unix. So which is it- is the multiuser Unix system good or bad?

Well one major difference with XP, if I remember correctly, was that it no longer ran on top of DOS. It still had the CMD feature but was not reliant on DOS for the ability to run. Same with Vista. I know one thing that has MS in trouble was that the Kernal was locked and MS was not willing to let it out in fear of it being leaked and viruses being created to attack the Kernal.

I also read somewhere that the Kernal was Unix/Linux based as well in Vista. I can't find where I saw this but I remember it. Also one thing I do like about Vista is that the registry is user specific. This meaning if one guy goes and destroys his registry or gets a virus that corrupts it another person is not effected and the whole OS is not screwed.

The MAC users will always boast their Unix based OS even though Vista has a lot of the same features as Unix based systems they will bash. If they didn't they couldn't truly justify paying more than a PC is worth just for OS X.

Hey, lay off us macin-fans! Just because you've got a PC doesn't allow you to harass us and besides macs are better in these ways:
1. No viruses
2. One retail 'ultimate' version
3. Special Mac Forums
4. The ability to use EFI, whatever that means
5. The ability to install and uninstall applications by drag and drop
6. Face it, iwork is mac-only
7. ilife 08
8. simple user interface
9. the ability to run all systems
10. the command key
11.Do I even need a reason?

1. Thats a lie. There are viruses but since the MAC user base is so low not many are created
2. Ok....
3. There are special Windows/PC forums everywhere and more tech support than MAC has due to larger user base.
4. What Shadow703793 said. I prefer being able to OC my CPU thank you very much. A 600MHz increase does wounders too ya know.
5. Also known as the ability to screw up and uninstall the wrong program or file needed for operation.
6. iWorks cost $100 bucks. Office has the same thing.
7. What Shadow703793 said again
8. Vista/XP is easy to use
9. PC can run Windows, Unix, Linux and everything else. Even OS X if you get the hack around for it
10. Windows Key

Look MAC has its ups and its downs. PC has its ups and its downs. Mac works for some but wont work for all. PC works for the majority since its easy, cheap and abundant but not for those small amount who want something else. As I have said they can have a MAC if they want, just don't try to act superior to me when all they do is open a box, plug it in and turn it on where as people like myself build it and install everything.

 

[Vertigon]

"Spin your lies: Adobe is releasing CS4 for macs but it won't be 64bit like the PC version "

Sorry amdfangirl, last time I read up on it, they wern't. The inability for them to be able to release a 64bit version is a counter arguement for people promoting the mac OS as the greatest system blah blah. If Photoshop isn't the signature app for mac's, what is? Bwahahaha.

Macgirlfriend at least you attempted to put up some reasons, lame as they were, where's lukebird?

Even though I get frustrated by mac zealots, I still wish them all well, they are trying. Why they have to be so stubborn, why they are determined to pay more for less I guess is something for those interested in human behaviour to contemplate.

It's ok to admit to have made a mistake, I haven't met a human yet that hasn't made one, most have made many, but that's no reason to make it a habit. I hope those of you that aren't emtionally attached to an underachieving platform will break free and embrace the white goodness of the PC world.

For those one eyed stubborn mules I still say:

For anyone who still wants to buy a mac, follow your dog around with a bucket, it's alot cheaper.

 

[Shadow703793]

Guys stop bashing amdfangirl and Macgirlfriend. They have an opinion too. Let them believe what they want and makes them happy. I was in no way intending to bash them I was merely pointing out not so true statements.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Guys stop bashing amdfangirl and Macgirlfriend. They have an opinion too. Let them believe what they want and makes them happy. I was in no way intending to bash them I was merely pointing out not so true statements.

Agreed. But MAC is still evil in my book no matter what anyone says.

 

[chris312]

I wonder what it is that makes people attach themselves to specific tech companies.. Nintendo vs Microsoft vs Sony for console games, Microsoft vs Apple vs Samsung vs others for music players, Nvidia vs ATI, Intel vs AMD, and Mac vs Windows. It would be a really interesting topic for a research paper, haha

Just buy the product that fits your needs for the best price. If I were looking for a sleek all-in-one that doesn't need to be networked to my other computers, I'd consider an imac... For gaming, I choose the windows platform because it allows for hardware upgrades on the cheap. Notebook, whoever makes the smallest and lightest decently powered notebook for what I'm willing to pay.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Not true. 90% of the Internet Webservers are Linux based. Now that's a LOT of webservers. Also many people use Linux too (like me) if you combine all linux distros they will out weigh Mac OS. Mac OS is BASED off of Linux for those who didn't know

Most Web servers are Linux but nowhere near 90% of them. http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/200804/ is a report of what Web servers were running what Web server software. Some software, particularly Apache, runs on a bunch 'o OSes so it's hard to tell what was behind it, but it's usually Linux. IIS runs only on Windows.

It is very hard to compare the number of Linux (or any other free Unixes such as one of the BSDs or Solaris) users to users of other OSes as it very hard to get a count of people who run Linux.

1. Windows and MacOS market share are usually computed by OS sales figures. The vast majority of people who run Windows buy it rather than pirate it and even more so for MacOS, making these decent metrics. However, Linux is very rarely sold pre-installed on computers or in boxed sets that can be tallied.

2. Many people who run Linux, including almost every laptop user, do so on a computer that shipped with another OS preinstalled. So this counts as a user for the shipping OS and not the Linux it actually runs.

3. Linux is GPL software and such you can download and share install media legally. This makes counting the number of downloads of CD/DVD images from the distributor not such a great indicator of actual users as one CD image could have been passed around 30 times or one guy could have downloaded 30 different distros' images to try them out before setting on one he liked.

4. The other method of calculating OS share is by browser user agent string. There are multiple problems with this, the first being that some websites will flat-out refuse to serve pages to browsers that do not have an OS string with "Windows" or "Macintosh" in it. Thus some Linux users fake user agent strings to say IE on Windows, making their Linux computer count as a Windows machine. Also, certain websites will attract proportionally more or fewer Linux users based on their content. Slashdot attracts a bigger percentage of Linux users than most sites, while Windows game fan sites will attract very few Linux users.

Well one major difference with XP, if I remember correctly, was that it no longer ran on top of DOS. It still had the CMD feature but was not reliant on DOS for the ability to run. Same with Vista. I know one thing that has MS in trouble was that the Kernal was locked and MS was not willing to let it out in fear of it being leaked and viruses being created to attack the Kernal.

XP IA64 and x86 is NT version 5.1 and Windows XP x86_64 is NT 5.2. Like all of the other NT family OSes (NT 3.1, 3.51, 4.0, 5.0 [W2K]) it does not use DOS. MS claims that the 2 GB of NT kernel source code that was leaked was a big security risk but several other OS kernels have their source completely "out in the wild" but are considered more secure than the NT kernel. I really think that the fear was that the source code had stuff in it that would either embarrass MS such as the swearing that was in the comments or very sloppy coding, or it had stuff illegally ripped off from OSS or other projects.

I also read somewhere that the Kernal was Unix/Linux based as well in Vista. I can't find where I saw this but I remember it. Also one thing I do like about Vista is that the registry is user specific. This meaning if one guy goes and destroys his registry or gets a virus that corrupts it another person is not effected and the whole OS is not screwed.

The Windows NT kernel was made by ex-DEC VMS programmers and is said to be pretty similar to the VMS kernel. Windows NT is somewhat POSIX-compliant but it is not very Unixy. The filesystem is not a traditional Unix rooted one nor is the OS organized in the typical /bin, /usr, lib, etc. format. The Windows command prompt is also about as close to a Unix terminal as a Power Wheels car is to a Formula 1 race car.

@macfangirl

1. No viruses

There are viruses for the Macintosh. I do think there is some truth to the lower market share making non-Windows computers a less-desirable target for virus writers. But if that were the whole story, we'd see a ton of viruses for Linux and UNIX as there are a bunch of Linux/UNIX servers out there. A Linux or UNIX (BSD/Solaris/AIX/HP-UX/etc.) server is a VERY high-value target due to the big, fat pipe to the internet that's guaranteed to be on 24/7, as well as lots of local hard drive space. That would make a heck of a lot better warez server than Aunt Millie's Pentium III Windows machine on dial-up. I think that Windows is targeted because it's much easier to target. Aunt Millie is much more vulnerable to social-engineering viruses and thus is more likely to open up OohLookAtTheCutePuppies.exe.jpg than a Linux/UNIX user or admin will be to open OohLookAtTheHotNakedChick.sh.jpg. Also, there are many more programs for Windows and as the recent Vista v. OS X v. Ubuntu hack-a-thon showed, crappy third-party programs are the more often becoming the downfall of OS security. And as that same hack-a-thon showed, it was OS X that was the most vulnerable as it folded first.

2. One retail 'ultimate' version

There is only one retail Ultimate version of Windows Vista- they even took the liberty of labeling it explicitly as such 😀 But to the original poster, there are not one but TWO versions of OS X- the standard desktop/laptop one and OS X Server. ONE version of Linux or UNIX will be able to do any of those functions as you can simply install and remove packages at will to set up a server or desktop without paying a cent, something that Windows or OS X will not let you do.

3. Special Mac Forums

There are special Windows forums *cough*http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-44.html*cough* *cough*http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-45.html*cough* out there as well as a ton of special Linux and BSD forums. Just about every Linux/UNIX distribution has at least one user forum if not several. OS-specific forums are nothing unique to any OS.

4. The ability to use EFI, whatever that means

There is an old adage: if you don't know what something is, you don't need it. 😉 The definition of EFI you're looking for here is Intel's proprietary Extensible Firmware Interface, which is a method of bootstrapping a computer that doesn't use a derivative of the IBM PC BIOS. (EFI usually means "electronic fuel injection," which your computer would not be able to use very well, not unless you want to keep your house from combusting.) Linux and BSD can use EFI also; it's really only most (all?) versions of Windows that cannot use EFI to boot. Personally, I don't think that EFI is all that as something like LinuxBIOS is much more powerful and interesting, not to mention not tied solely to Intel and runs on many more motherboards.

5. The ability to install and uninstall applications by drag and drop

Again, not unique to MacOS: http://klik.atekon.de/ Plus I think that Linux and BSD package managers have drag-and-drop beaten as you don't even have to go find and download the .dmg file and then drag-and-drop to get the program to work. You simply open up the package manager window and pick out your program and it is automatically downloaded and installed. Or you can do it from the terminal- something like "<package_manage_name> install <program>" will do the same job. It doesn't get any quicker than that unless the computer can read your mind.

6. Face it, iwork is mac-only

iWork is nothing special- I've used it. It's a set of relatively simple office programs, comparable to KOffice, GNOME Office (AbiWord + Gnumeric + something else I forget) or MS Works + a mediocre presentation program. MS Office and OpenOffice.org have many more features and are less expensive if you are a student. iWork costs a hundred simoleans while Office 2007 is $59 and OpenOffice.org is gratis. iWork might be fine if it were given away for free or for a small fee like $20 but there's no way that it's worth a hundred dollars.

7. ilife 08

Apple's media editing software that they bought from third party developers and tweaked is decent, but it isn't the end-all, be-all. It's expensive too.

8. simple user interface

It might be simple but that doesn't make it good. Case in point: the one-button mouse may be simple but I'd rather have a second and third button than have to go command+click to get a right click and who knows what combination to get a middle click. Sometimes things are made so simple that they actually make doing your work harder than if almost all of the features were not stripped out.

9. the ability to run all systems

Oh really? No matter what your definition of "systems" is, you're wrong:

1. Systems meaning "operating systems:" Try to run HP-UX, AIX, or RISC OS on your Apple computer, I dare you.

2. Systems meaning "computer systems" as in individual machines: I have a pretty typical custom AMD X2 desktop here that I betcha won't install from a legit OS X disk. Nor will my Gateway laptop. About the only OS that stands a chance of being able to run on any arbitrary computer system is Linux, followed by one of the BSDs. But even those OSes won't install on some very obscure hardware or anything older than a 386.

10. the command key

Okay, and Windows has a Windows key and some custom keyboards have a Tux, daemon, or Solaris logo key. They are all just extra modifier keys like Alt or Ctrl. You can use a Macintosh keyboard with many OSes and the command key will work just the same as those other keys I mentioned. It's nothing special.

^huh I have kids now?

<joke>I should hope not, you're pretty young even by ghetto or redneck standards. Usually girls don't start to pop 'em out until they are 15 or 16 if my tenure in high school was any indication.</joke>

All joking aside, ask anybody who is a new parent and they'll say roughly what you did. They'll also say that after what feels like only a few years later they are middle-aged and their kids are all grown up and have kids of their own. Life does pass by pretty quickly, make sure to enjoy it when you can.

If Hackintoshes weren't illegal I'd recommend one....

I still wouldn't. Even if Apple allowed the installation of OS X on non-Apple hardware, the driver situation would be a deal-breaker in most cases. Vista x86_64 on launch day or Linux in 1998 would look like a paradise of driver availability compared to OS X.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

mac is evil, xp is good, Vista is #$&*(^$. They all have their good points. To me. mac is like a console, just turn it on and game. No fuss, but limited in some ways, and as good in others, and sometimes even better (driving games)

 

[Neog2]

Hey, that's only because Apple needs money to make them really good and fast



Oh really? Shouldn't it be the other way around. 1) Mac get no viruses 2) Macs can run anything 3) Macs have cool ads 4) They crash less 5) Cooler interface and command keys 6) Multi-touch on new Macbooks 7) Macs can run iwork



Whatever that means, its an improvement

MAC CRACKED IN 2 minutes 30 seconds LOL, mac get no viruses, uh thats not completely true, they just dont make headlines. And uh hope your not banking online, or putting
your SSN into things with the whole SSL issues with Safari.

I'm not a Mac operating system hater, I just dislike everything else apple.
But there are issues with it just like with everything else. Main problem is
nobody ever hears about these issues because the install base isnt large enough
to make headlines like VISTA.

 

[LukeBird]

Luke, the point Im making here is that yeah that Core 2 Duo in the Mac is the same one thats in the PCs. However all things are not equal. The Mac system as a whole is slower and cost far more. A $6000 Mac Pro has its hands full trying to keep up to my $2000 PC. Obviously you cant run half the stuff on a Mac that I can run on my PC, but program to program, the PC is just as fast, for half the cost. Thats what I meant by slower hardware.

No $2000 PC is going to have a dual-socket board with two quad-core Xeon's though is it? I appreciate the Mac Pros are expensive, and no I wouldn't buy one, but they obviously have a market otherwise Apple wouldn't make them!
The Mac Pro has some serious prcoessor oomph, but in many other ways it is inferior to a PC.

Lukebird you're so typical and predictable. Your drowing in regret and your trying to make some sort of Rocky Balboa stand for the downtrodden. So tell us Lukebird, are there more compelling reasons to buy a mac over a pc? Please list them individually so I can completely enjoy the humour in each individual sentence.

While your at it, please explain why Adobe isn't releasing photoshop CS4 for macs. So predictable, when macdopes fail in hardware debates they turn to OS's, which is even more crap.

See Lukebird?? This was point about needing a psychologist to figure out why people buy macs. We are 8 pages into this debate and even though so many great pro pc's point have been raised, you still refuse to accept logic. Accept you have bought rotten apples, accept the financial loss, years of always being behind, limited software, the ridicule and humilation of owning a mac and then begin to heal.

Right, genius, as you're obviously the biggest know-it-all in history which is more than slightly ironic may I first ask why I am typical and predicatable? The irony in your first comment is beyond amusing (considering you're a serial apple-basher for no other reason than you can't think why not, trust me, when you grow up, prople will look on that as a favourable attribute! ) CS4 is coming to Mac, just not in 64-bit format.
Your point about psychologists, is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard, if you have to come up with such utter tripe, your argument is more pathetic than I first realised!
What logic am I refusing to accept? That because you don't like OS X, I can't either? I tell you what, tell me what I'm having for breakfast tomorrow, which shirt I'll put on, which route i'll drive to work, what i'll have for lunch... Do you know why it is called the 'free world'? Because we can make decisions for ourselves...
Years of being behind?! You don't know anything about me, so don't pretend you do. I bought my first Mac 4 months ago. I first used one 18months ago. So ask before you bother tirading me with bollocks...
And let me answer your question, why should I justify why I bought a Mac to such a child-like, pathetic response as you. Anything I say, you're going to argue with, so I won't bother, thanks!

 

[LukeBird]

^ oh good! so I was right.....

Absolutely!
Adobe would piss off a fair few customers if they didn't release a Mac version!

 

[macgirlfriend]

Hey, Lukebird I love you compared to everyone else here. Missy your alright. And that linux guy. The rest should be shamed.

 

[Shadow703793]

Most Web servers are Linux but nowhere near 90% of them. http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/200804/ is a report of what Web servers were running what Web server software. Some software, particularly Apache, runs on a bunch 'o OSes so it's hard to tell what was behind it, but it's usually Linux. IIS runs only on Windows.

It is very hard to compare the number of Linux (or any other free Unixes such as one of the BSDs or Solaris) users to users of other OSes as it very hard to get a count of people who run Linux.

I stand corrected.

Edit: Now I remember where I got that 90%, I meant that most servers (file servers,etc), and about 90% run Linux.

 

[LukeBird]

^ Yeah, that's what I thought!
I not for or against macs okay peoples so don't kill me yet............

Yeah arguments became a little heated, and I admit I was part of that. The best summing up I ever heard about Macs vs. PCs, is
"It's a religion, you pick your side and follow them through thick and thin"

To me, thats the perfect summing up, there's no need for argument with a comment like that. Make your decision and respect others with theirs. 😀

Hey, Lukebird I love you compared to everyone else here. Missy your alright. And that linux guy. The rest should be shamed.

Well thank you, but as amdfangirl said, don't lay into everyone else for the same reason!
Oh and being a 20yr old guy, I don't think "Missy" is perhaps an accurate description 😉
But anyhow, macgirlfriend, stay around and enjoy yourself at Toms 😀

 

[jimmysmitty]

Hey, Lukebird I love you compared to everyone else here. Missy your alright. And that linux guy. The rest should be shamed.

Hey I did nothing to be mean. Just pointed out facts. Thats not being mean its just being honest. I truly don't think MACs are superior to PCs in any way. They are literally the same system with different OS's. The main difference for me is 2 things. The ability to play any game I want and the ability to build and upgrade when need be. If I can't build it or upgrade a PC its just a useless box to me.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I know I shouldn't be mean but:



Right, a console that plays what games?

Seriously there are games but not many........

What I mean is, people that game using a console, they do so because they dont want to "complicate" their lives using a PC. Its easy to just pop in the game and start gaming. Racing games are sometimes better on a console than PC. Thats all Im saying. Oh , I guess theres one more. Just like consoles where you can get a bunch of people going together at once, so do mac fans, cause they know, without their bretheren, their lost heheh

 

[Harry-Plopper]

What I mean is, people that game using a console, they do so because they dont want to "complicate" their lives using a PC. Its easy to just pop in the game and start gaming. Racing games are sometimes better on a console than PC. Thats all Im saying. Oh , I guess theres one more. Just like consoles where you can get a bunch of people going together at once, so do mac fans, cause they know, without their bretheren, their lost heheh

But at the end of the day why should a machine be complicated when the time spent designing or doing what they supposed to do with image manipulation or magazine design for example as apposed to messing about with a rather large and chunky operating system and worry about driver updates and wether or not some ones going to infect you with a virus...

Then when it does get an update your reminded to reboot 50 times a minute because the machine cant handle a simple rejection...

Macs are for people who dont want to think about their surroundings ( no offence but Michael Shumacker ( how ever u spell it ) doesnt worry about how much oil he has in his Ferarri does he ) and weather or not a paper cup is in the right place, they just dont care, theyre not paid to think about it... but just get on with the task they are intended to do with out disturbance appart from cups of coffee, bottles of Evian and an occasional luvvie lunch and a smoke....

Which at the end of the day seems more counter productive than switching on and hoping that Windows starts with out a glitch because they didnt turn the machine off properly because it hung and corrupted the file allocation or with a badly written piece of software which is a 15 generation video card driver that crashes the display to the point that it gives a blue screen and reboots and looses the work...

Secondly .. Come on folks Macs have been better looking machines a long time before pcs started to look like Dolly Parton with a undersized bra....Can you honestly say that you have never said some thing was cool on a Mac then you have lived in a padded bucket inside a padded barrel inside a padded cell. Some things are cool on a Mac, some are not.. But I never got on with a single button mouse....

Yes the pc is my computer of choice but Macs do just look that bit better...

 

[uguv]

The real reason there aren't many viruses for the Mac.

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20060513


Macs aren't bad; they're just overpriced and can't run 90% of the applications I use.

 

[Shadow703793]

Hey, Lukebird I love you compared to everyone else here. Missy your alright. And that linux guy. The rest should be shamed.

Which Linux guy? :lol:

 

[Shadow703793]

@Everyone: Im not sure any one had tried this and since I don't own a Mac, I can't try it. Is it possible to OC the Macs now since it's running on Intel chips? Wouldn't a BSEL mod work (depending on 1066 vs 1333)? (BSEL mod = Old skool OCing fun 😀 )

 

[MU_Engineer]

Which Linux guy? :lol:

I don't know. I only know one person on the forums that is known as "the Linux guy," and I haven't seen him up in the CPU section for years- he's linux_0. Maybe she was talking about me since I mentioned that I run only Linux on my machines and referred to Linux (and other Unixes) frequently in my reply to her Macintosh-loving acquaintance. But several other people said they used Linux as well, so I'm not really sure who she was talking about.

 

[Shadow703793]

^ :lol: But seriously dose any one know if BSEL mod would work on the new C2D based Macs?

 

[Vertigon]

"And let me answer your question, why should I justify why I bought a Mac to such a child-like, pathetic response as you. Anything I say, you're going to argue with, so I won't bother, thanks! "

Translated: "No I can't justify why anyone would buy a mac over a PC"

Lukebird my point entirely. I don't want to get into some tit for tat bitter debate over crap, I just don't understand why anyone would buy a mac, alot like many of the people that frequent these forums.

Amdfangirl if you type Photoshop CS4 into google you will see many articles stating its compatibility with Vista, regarding the 64 bit version anyhow. Obviously they are going to have to provide a 32 bit version for both PC and Mac, but my point was about Mac OS'S being behind, especially in the delivery of a 64 bit platform. From what I have heard Mac owners will have to wait until CS5 to get a 64 bit version, if there 64 bit platform is ready and stable by then.

I still like Mac people, confused as they are. They are trying even if logic and reason isn't there strongest points.