[WFB]Wood Elf list + Question on shooting chariots

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Heya all, as some of you may of read I am just getting into WHFB again, and
have the 6th edition rules and box.

The first part of my post will be asking about my selection vs my opponents,
the second part is a rule clarification on shooting at chariots.


Part 1:

I have decided to create a wood elf army first, of course I have instantly
gimped myself as they do not have a full or completed army list yet, but I
play a ranger in EQ so am used to being gimped

Here are two selections I have made, my opponents will primarily be skaven
and greenskins (these are the armies my brothers are starting with).

I have two army lists, one is a small 750 points army, the other is a larger
2000 point army, I am still a newb when it comes to selections but with the
limited choice available these are what I have come up with:

***********************************************************
750 points army

General:


Level 2 Mage + steed + dispell + hail of doom arrow
167 points

Core Units:

*8 x Archers + bearer + hawkeye
122 points

*15 x Glade Guard + armour + shields + bearer + captain
170 points


*7 x Wardancers + First Dancer
134 points


*5 x Glade Riders + bearer + horse master + longbows

Notes: I may possibly swap out the mage for a mounted glade guardian, as a
level 2 mage on his own isn't that powerful, but adds two dispell dice which
is handy.
*************************************************************

2000 points army

General and Heros:

*Forest Lord (150) + Steed (18) + light armour (3) + enchanted shield (10) +
biting blade (10) + vambraces of lightning (30)
221 points |ON ORDER|

*Level 2 Mage (105) + steed (12) + dispell (25) + talisman of protection
(15)
157 points

*Glade Guardian (80) + steed (12) + light armour (3) + shield (2) + sword of
battle (25)
122 points |NEXT IN BASKET|


Core Units:

*10 x archers (13) + hawkeye (6)
136 points

*10 x archers (13) + hawkeye (6) 136 points

*5 x Glade riders (21) + longbows (4 per model) + master (16)
141 points (mage group)

*5 x Glade riders (21) + musician (8) + bearer (16) + master (16) + banner
of the bear (20)
165 points (lord and guardian group)

*20 x Glade guard (8) + light armour (1 per model) + shields (1 per model) +
bearer (10) + musician (5)
215 points

*20x Glade guard (8) + light armour (1 per model) + shields (1 per model) +
bearer (10) + musician (5)
215 points

*9 x Wardancers (15) + musician (7) +*first dancer (14)
156 points

*7 x Wardancers (15) |ON ORDER|
105 points

*8 x Dryads (20) + spirit (16)
176 points

*1 x great eagle
50 points

Notes: Here I could swap out the mage for either another glade guardian with
banner, or another unit of archers.
****************************************************************************
*************

Are both these selections legal? Any glaring errors (most likely!)

Part 2:

I the WFB rulebook it states when targeting the chariot, you shoot it as a
unit as a whole, but doesnt seem to say how you allocate hits.

For example, an orc boar chariot is made up of two boards, the chariot and
1-3 riders.

If I shoot at it with a squad of ten archers, and score ten hits, how are
these hits allocated amongst the models of the chariot? It seems silly if I
can just shoot the boars, but it also seems silly if all the arrows hit the
chariot. My own solution would be to allocate each hit to a model on an
individual basis. IE 1-2 hit boar, 3-5 hit chariot, 6 hit chariot riders.
Is this correct or is there an official way to work this out?

Thanks for any help with my army and my question
--
Lief
Ranger of Wherever

 

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"Lief" <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote in message
news:lKQae.4120$wu2.3496@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...

> I the WFB rulebook it states when targeting the chariot, you shoot it as
> a
> unit as a whole, but doesnt seem to say how you allocate hits.
>
> For example, an orc boar chariot is made up of two boards, the chariot and
> 1-3 riders.

negative. the chariot takes hits and damage as a single model. the
creatures and charioteers are part of it - they just make their own attacks
in close combat (or shoot if they have missile weapons). so say the chariot
has toughness 4, 4 wounds and a 5+ armour save - that's the whole thing, it
functions at full efficiency until takes 4 wounds and it's destroyed. this
is all on p127 in the rulebook, by the way. it gets slightly more
complicated when you have characters riding in chariots, but not much.

 

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"Doctor Rock" <malafex@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:i1Sae.146234$Nr5.65172@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "Lief" <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote in message
> news:lKQae.4120$wu2.3496@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> > I the WFB rulebook it states when targeting the chariot, you shoot it
as
> > a
> > unit as a whole, but doesnt seem to say how you allocate hits.
> >
> > For example, an orc boar chariot is made up of two boards, the chariot
and
> > 1-3 riders.
>
> negative. the chariot takes hits and damage as a single model. the
> creatures and charioteers are part of it - they just make their own
attacks
> in close combat (or shoot if they have missile weapons). so say the
chariot
> has toughness 4, 4 wounds and a 5+ armour save - that's the whole thing,
it
> functions at full efficiency until takes 4 wounds and it's destroyed.
this
> is all on p127 in the rulebook, by the way. it gets slightly more
> complicated when you have characters riding in chariots, but not much.


Ok. So the rule about a chariot moving at half speed? If the boars cant be
shot does this matter (guess something else can hit boars?).

To put it another way, can I select what I want to hit in close combat as
normal ? (boar, chariot, rider).

 

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On 4/24/05 5:44 PM, in article IqUae.5155$Y46.454@newsfe1-win.ntli.net,
"Lief" <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote:

>
> "Doctor Rock" <malafex@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:i1Sae.146234$Nr5.65172@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "Lief" <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote in message
>> news:lKQae.4120$wu2.3496@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>>> I the WFB rulebook it states when targeting the chariot, you shoot it
> as
>>> a
>>> unit as a whole, but doesnt seem to say how you allocate hits.
>>>
>>> For example, an orc boar chariot is made up of two boards, the chariot
> and
>>> 1-3 riders.
>>
>> negative. the chariot takes hits and damage as a single model. the
>> creatures and charioteers are part of it - they just make their own
> attacks
>> in close combat (or shoot if they have missile weapons). so say the
> chariot
>> has toughness 4, 4 wounds and a 5+ armour save - that's the whole thing,
> it
>> functions at full efficiency until takes 4 wounds and it's destroyed.
> this
>> is all on p127 in the rulebook, by the way. it gets slightly more
>> complicated when you have characters riding in chariots, but not much.
>
>
> Ok. So the rule about a chariot moving at half speed? If the boars cant be
> shot does this matter (guess something else can hit boars?).
>
> To put it another way, can I select what I want to hit in close combat as
> normal ? (boar, chariot, rider).
>
Sounds like you are using the rules from the previous version of the game.
The stats on your chariot should only show T for the chariot (not for the
boars or the crew).

There is no longer any rule about half speed that I am aware of. A chariot
cannot march. A chariot will move the M value of whatever is pulling it -
in fact, the chariot stats should only show an M value for the puller (boar,
wolf, horse) and not show M values for crew or chariot itself.

For example, a chariot pulled by boars can move 7" unless it is charging in
which case it charges 14". How many wounds the chariot has taken means
nothing to its movement nowadays.

If you playing with rules from the previous version of WFB, then you need to
let us know - they are different where the chariot is concerned. Although,
GW makes it a bit difficult to figure out which version of the game your
rule book is for.


janet
--
It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to
find it elsewhere.
Agnes Repplier

 

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"Lief" <ask.me.for@it.com> wrote in message news:<lKQae.4120$wu2.3496@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net>...
> Heya all, as some of you may of read I am just getting into WHFB again, and
> have the 6th edition rules and box.
>
> The first part of my post will be asking about my selection vs my opponents,
> the second part is a rule clarification on shooting at chariots.
>
>
> Part 1:
>
> I have decided to create a wood elf army first, of course I have instantly
> gimped myself as they do not have a full or completed army list yet, but I
> play a ranger in EQ so am used to being gimped
>
> Here are two selections I have made, my opponents will primarily be skaven
> and greenskins (these are the armies my brothers are starting with).
>
> I have two army lists, one is a small 750 points army, the other is a larger
> 2000 point army, I am still a newb when it comes to selections but with the
> limited choice available these are what I have come up with:
>
> ***********************************************************
> 750 points army
>
> General:
>
>
> Level 2 Mage + steed + dispell + hail of doom arrow
> 167 points
>
> Core Units:
>
> *8 x Archers + bearer + hawkeye
> 122 points

Simply, you have far, *far* too few archers. At 750pts I look to
include at least 30 missile troops (normally 20 Archers and 10
Scouts).

> *15 x Glade Guard + armour + shields + bearer + captain
> 170 points

Three things:

1. This is too small for a low-toughness Spearmen unit; 20 is the bare
minimum and I'd go with 24-30 if I used any. This of course
effectively rules them out in small games.

2. They aren't all that useful anyway - Wood Elves aren't designed to
sit around waiting to get charged. Spearmen are good for High and Dark
Elf armies in which there are large other close combat regiments for
them to support, but they don't suit the Wood Elves very well.

3. As I mentioned in the other thread, I suspect Glade
Guard-as-spearmen will probably be removed from the final army book,
on the basis that (1) GW knows no one uses them anyway, (2) the new
'Glade Guard' plastic set appears to consist of archers going by that
name and GW has yet to make a combined archer/spearmen boxed set and
(3) there's supposed to be a new Rare 'spearmen' unit (The Eternal
Guard) in the new book which will perform the function of the current
Glade Guard.

>
> *7 x Wardancers + First Dancer
> 134 points

Very good.

>
> *5 x Glade Riders + bearer + horse master + longbows

Good. Though you're only needing to give them longbows because you're
too short of ranged weapons elsewhere - Glade Riders with spears give
WE S4 close combat attacks, which isn't to be sniffed at, plus they
have a decent save.

> Notes: I may possibly swap out the mage for a mounted glade guardian, as a
> level 2 mage on his own isn't that powerful, but adds two dispell dice which
> is handy.

Don't underestimate Life magic - okay, you might not get much use out
of the Rain Lord with your opponents (it's wonderful against Empire)
and swampy/watery terrain is so rare on the battlefields I've used
that it's effectively useless, but the rest include some strong
offensive spells. If I have to choose between character types, I'll
always take Mages before fighters - anyone in the army can fight, but
only Mages give you magic. You'll also find that small units like
Glade Riders and your archers are extremely vulnerable to being wiped
out by magic so the dispel dice are vital.

> 2000 points army
>
> General and Heros:
>
> *Forest Lord (150) + Steed (18) + light armour (3) + enchanted shield (10) +
> biting blade (10) + vambraces of lightning (30)
> 221 points |ON ORDER|

Not using the dragon you wanted?

> *Level 2 Mage (105) + steed (12) + dispell (25) + talisman of protection
> (15)
> 157 points

2,000pts and you only have one mage?

> *Glade Guardian (80) + steed (12) + light armour (3) + shield (2) + sword of
> battle (25)
> 122 points |NEXT IN BASKET|

It's hard to see what he adds to this army - he's gobbling up points
you could use on a mage, duplicates what the Forest Lord does, is
poorly armoured (for a character) and doesn't have any magic items
worth a damn (the Sword of Battle only ups his S4 attacks to the level
the Forest Lord has anyway).

>
> Core Units:
>
> *10 x archers (13) + hawkeye (6)
> 136 points
>
> *10 x archers (13) + hawkeye (6) 136 points

Good. Now get some more. And plenty of Scouts - skirmishing and the
ability to start a game within short range of the enemy makes a huge
difference to their effectiveness. Forget earlier editions of the
game: skirmishing is now a useful ability for something other than the
-1 to hit modifier; the 360 degree fire arc and ability to fire
'through' one another makes them exceptional archers. Plus they don't
have to sit in one place waiting to be run down.

> *5 x Glade riders (21) + longbows (4 per model) + master (16)
> 141 points (mage group)

Always, *always* give Fast Cavalry units a musician. The Horsemaster
adds nothing to this unit; with longbows, you'll only ever want it in
close combat as a flanker to support other units, and those units
should be the ones with the punch. In any case an extra S3 attack is
of practically no significance. The Banner of the Lynx is a good
investment for GRs as well.

> *5 x Glade riders (21) + musician (8) + bearer (16) + master (16) + banner
> of the bear (20)
> 165 points (lord and guardian group)

Add more Riders - I'd look at 7 + characters for a close combat
cavalry unit.

> *20 x Glade guard (8) + light armour (1 per model) + shields (1 per model) +
> bearer (10) + musician (5)
> 215 points
>
> *20x Glade guard (8) + light armour (1 per model) + shields (1 per model) +
> bearer (10) + musician (5)
> 215 points

See above.

> *9 x Wardancers (15) + musician (7) +*first dancer (14)
> 156 points
>
> *7 x Wardancers (15) |ON ORDER|
> 105 points

Good.

> *8 x Dryads (20) + spirit (16)
> 176 points

Never been sold on them, but other people like them. Word of warning,
though: Dryads are due for a major change in the army book, becoming
more basic rank and file troops with characteristics a little superior
to those of Orcs. This means that if you're getting the models now it
would be wise to invest in rather more of them (say, 20+, like an Orc
unit), or alternatively wait for the new models - they probably won't
be compatible with the current ones.

> Are both these selections legal? Any glaring errors (most likely!)

Too little magic, far too little firepower (I'd look for around 50
bow-armed troops in an army of this size, maybe 3 Archer units and a
couple of Scouts) and no use of skirmishers at all.

> Part 2:
>
> I the WFB rulebook it states when targeting the chariot, you shoot it as a
> unit as a whole, but doesnt seem to say how you allocate hits.

Chariots only have one T stat for the whole lot - the riders and
beasts have their own S, A and so forth, but all hits are allocated to
the chariot's toughness, and its fighting effectiveness isn't reduced
until it's lost all its wounds (i.e. you can't kill beasts or riders
individually). The exception is characters - if a character is mounted
in a chariot, the chariot (with its riders and beasts) is treated as a
monster mount (i.e. allocate hits as you would for a character riding
a multi-wound creature). Chariots are a real pain for WE to kill (I've
found one good solution is to stick your Scouts outside a wood, wait
for the chariot to charge them, and then flee - with any luck the
chariot will be smashed to matchwood as it pursues, though boar
chariots are a lot tougher than the wolf chariots I've pulled this off
with in the past).

Philip Bowles

 

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> Ok. So the rule about a chariot moving at half speed? If the boars cant
> be
> shot does this matter (guess something else can hit boars?).
Perhaps this rule existed in earlier editions but it doesn't anymore.

> To put it another way, can I select what I want to hit in close combat as
> normal ? (boar, chariot, rider).
No.

 

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"Philip Bowles" <pbowles@aol.com> wrote in message
news:587631d1.0504251827.3c33f9eb@posting.google.com...

Thanks for the reply Philip (and others!), am late for work so will do real
reply later.