[SOLVED] What CPU should I choose and what motherboard?

[execute_me]

It's CPU upgrade time but there's a bunch <<EDITED>> that confuses me, please help.

I've almost decided to go with the Ryzen 5 3600, as the 3600x just seems like it has a better stock cooler but no real advantage, althought I'm not entirely sure about this. Should I stick with Ryzen or go with Intel? I have slower RAM so will that make Intel a better choice?

Now with motherboards. What am I supposed to look for? Will I be fine if I just buy one that has my fits my CPU and has the required amount of PCI-E slots? And obviously isnt dated.

Heres my specs :

Motherboard : Corsair Carbide 330R Blackout Edition

PSU : Corsair TX650M

Processor : Intel Core i5-6600K

CPU cooler : Akasa CPU Cooler AK - 959CU

Motherboard : MSI Z170A PC MATE

Ram : HyperX Fury DDR4 2133MHz 8GB Kit - I have two of these so 4x4GB in total.

GPU : MSI RTX 2070 Armor

Storage : 250 GB SSD, 500 GB SSD.

I've also got a WiFi card since I can't get an ethernet cable to my room.

And at last, a reputable store has a 25 dollar sale on the Ryzen 5 3600. Should I go for that or wait until Black Friday?

Thanks in advance.

 

[PC Tailor]

I've almost decided to go with the Ryzen 5 3600, as the 3600x just seems like it has a better stock cooler but no real advantage, althought I'm not entirely sure about this. Should I stick with Ryzen or go with Intel?

Of the two, the 3600X is basically better binned chips. But all in all isn't usually worth a price increase and performance difference is minimal. So the 3600 is usually the preferred choice unless they are the same price. Personally value wise, AMD win over Intel at the moment.

However I would say you likely won't notice a big increase in performance from the 6600K to the 3600 unless you're doing more multicore tasks / multitasking. Yes the 3600 is better, but not drastically.

I have slower RAM so will that make Intel a better choice?

Not that it makes Intel a better choice, but it makes Ryzen a slightly less favourable choice, simply because you won't be utilising the full capability of the Ryzen chipset as it does pair well with faster RAM, whereas Intel doesn't really have that ability.

So it doesn't make Intel better, just means you won't be optimising your RAM usage with what the Ryzen series can do with fast RAM.

Now with motherboards. What am I supposed to look for? Will I be fine if I just buy one that has my fits my CPU and has the required amount of PCI-E slots? And obviously isnt dated.

Not exactly, yes you want the same socket motherboard for the CPU, but you also want to make sure that the board also has the firmware ability to take the CPU. For example, the B450 chipset can take a 3rd Gen Ryzen, but it usually needs a BIOS update prior to installation of a 3rd Gen.

Having said that, there are certain B450 boards that have BIOS flashback (don't need a CPU to update the BIOS), or are compatible with 3rd Gen out of the box - usually due to date of manufacture. However as a guaranteed, all X570 boards will be out of the box compatible with a 3rd Gen Ryzen.

So for example you could look at:
MSI B450 Tomahawk (has BIOS flashback)
MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX (Out of the box compatible)
Asus TUF X570 Gaming
Gigabyte X570 Gaming X

etc.

Ram : HyperX Fury DDR4 2133MHz 8GB Kit - I have two of these so 4x4GB in total.

It's also worth noting that because these are mixed modules, just because they work together on your current system, there is no guarantee that they will work on a new motherboard/CPU combo.

 

[Newtonius]

^ what tailor said. With RAM that slow a 3600 would lose some performance, so intel would be a good choice. A comparable CPU is a 9400f but you will lose about 5-10FPS compared to a 3600. If you plan to upgrade you should look into getting faster RAM to get the most out of a 3600 or any other zen 2 series AMD cpu.

 

[execute_me]

Of the two, the 3600X is basically better binned chips. But all in all isn't usually worth a price increase and performance difference is minimal. So the 3600 is usually the preferred choice unless they are the same price. Personally value wise, AMD win over Intel at the moment.

However I would say you likely won't notice a big increase in performance from the 6600K to the 3600 unless you're doing more multicore tasks / multitasking. Yes the 3600 is better, but not drastically.


Not that it makes Intel a better choice, but it makes Ryzen a slightly less favourable choice, simply because you won't be utilising the full capability of the Ryzen chipset as it does pair well with faster RAM, whereas Intel doesn't really have that ability.

So it doesn't make Intel better, just means you won't be optimising your RAM usage with what the Ryzen series can do with fast RAM.


Not exactly, yes you want the same socket motherboard for the CPU, but you also want to make sure that the board also has the firmware ability to take the CPU. For example, the B450 chipset can take a 3rd Gen Ryzen, but it usually needs a BIOS update prior to installation of a 3rd Gen.

Having said that, there are certain B450 boards that have BIOS flashback (don't need a CPU to update the BIOS), or are compatible with 3rd Gen out of the box - usually due to date of manufacture. However as a guaranteed, all X570 boards will be out of the box compatible with a 3rd Gen Ryzen.

So for example you could look at:
MSI B450 Tomahawk (has BIOS flashback)
MSI B450 Tomahawk MAX (Out of the box compatible)
Asus TUF X570 Gaming
Gigabyte X570 Gaming X

etc.


It's also worth noting that because these are mixed modules, just because they work together on your current system, there is no guarantee that they will work on a new motherboard/CPU combo.

Thanks for the answer, probably the best one I've gotten in a while.

I think I will go with the B450 Tomahawk MAX, it has 2 PCI-E slots, one 3.0 x 16 for GPU and one smaller that I can use for my WiFi card. And I wont have to struggle with getting the bios updated.

If my RAM doesn't work I could still get 2 sticks working right? I think I can buy new ram pretty much immediately aslong as I get one pair of the sticks working.

And just one more question. Do I need to buy another cooler or is the stock Ryzen 5 3600 cooler good enough? I've seen it average out at around 80 celsius while under load, would that throdle it or hurt it in the long run?

Also my current CPU cant keep up with newer games that require better CPUs such as the Battlefield series, that is my main reason for upgrading.

 

[PC Tailor]

I think I will go with the B450 Tomahawk MAX, it has 2 PCI-E slots, one 3.0 x 16 for GPU and one smaller that I can use for my WiFi card. And I wont have to struggle with getting the bios updated.

Good choice my friend !

If my RAM doesn't work I could still get 2 sticks working right?

Should do, as long as the RAM is from the same pack. So if the 4 together don't work (which is possible, just a gamble until you try) - then you'd want to go down to 2 that were bought from the same physical pack.

And just one more question. Do I need to buy another cooler or is the stock Ryzen 5 3600 cooler good enough? I've seen it average out at around 80 celsius while under load, would that throdle it or hurt it in the long run?

Depends on your ambient environment, if you live in a constantly hot country / hot room, then you'd maybe want an aftermarket cooler, however the stock Ryzen coolers are decent enough. Don't allow much room for overclocking for example but are typically fine under load.

80 degrees under load wouldn't lead to a significant deterioration of life span no, the throttle temp for the 3600 is 95 degrees anyway. You can always stick to stock, and if you aren't happy, then upgrade later.

Just due to the unique behaviour of the 3rd series Ryzen, you may want to adjust the fan curve of your CPU, as it has a boost from idle feature whereby it applies heavy voltage to each core to boost it out of sleep and then stabilise which results in voltage and heat spikes when this happens, so what you also get is a CPU fan that sounds like it's constantly whirring up and down (in quite a few cases). But this is normal, and some people don't necessarily encounter it.

Also my current CPU cant keep up with newer games that require better CPUs such as the Battlefield series

Is it definitely the CPU bottlenecking? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it's the GPU per se, just usually the 660K would be fine. But completely understood, I run the 3600X myself anyway and it's still excellent.

 

[RodroX]

Hi

Just buy the 3600 + some cheap but know brand kit of 2x8GB 320MHz DDR4RAM (you can find one for 65 bucks or less right now).

And the upgrade will be very important depending on what game titles you play (I believe this is a gaming PC considering your RTX card).

Most games from 2018 to today will see big impact on avg FPS, but specially the 1% low (don't believe me, there are many reviews out there: https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3489-amd-ryzen-5-3600-cpu-review-benchmarks-vs-intel; https://www.techspot.com/review/1871-amd-ryzen-3600/). Keep in mind that the diference will get smaller if you go with a higher display resolution and refresh rate. But I do believe he 3600 should give you very smooth gameplay overall without a doubt.

In short, it all depends on your games, display resolution and refresh rate, a R5 3600 6c/12t vs a Core i5 4c/4t is an important step up.

Lastly as for motherboard a B450 with good VRM will be ok: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

 

[execute_me]

Good choice my friend !


Should do, as long as the RAM is from the same pack. So if the 4 together don't work (which is possible, just a gamble until you try) - then you'd want to go down to 2 that were bought from the same physical pack.


Depends on your ambient environment, if you live in a constantly hot country / hot room, then you'd maybe want an aftermarket cooler, however the stock Ryzen coolers are decent enough. Don't allow much room for overclocking for example but are typically fine under load.

80 degrees under load wouldn't lead to a significant deterioration of life span no, the throttle temp for the 3600 is 95 degrees anyway. You can always stick to stock, and if you aren't happy, then upgrade later.

Just due to the unique behaviour of the 3rd series Ryzen, you may want to adjust the fan curve of your CPU, as it has a boost from idle feature whereby it applies heavy voltage to each core to boost it out of sleep and then stabilise which results in voltage and heat spikes when this happens, so what you also get is a CPU fan that sounds like it's constantly whirring up and down (in quite a few cases). But this is normal, and some people don't necessarily encounter it.


Is it definitely the CPU bottlenecking? Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting it's the GPU per se, just usually the 660K would be fine. But completely understood, I run the 3600X myself anyway and it's still excellent.

Both Battlefield I and 5 have the i5-6600K listed as the mininum requirement and I'm definietly feeling it since I usually am between 30-60 fps. There isn't anything else that I'm missing when it comes to the requirements, oh well I dont have a dedicated sound card but I doubt thats it.

The only question that remain is if I should upgrade at all. Would my 144hz screen justify the purchase? <<EDITED>>, I think that I'm going for it. Or am I?

Thanks a lot for the help, you made everything a lot clearer for me.

 

[PC Tailor]

Both Battlefield I and 5 have the i5-6600K listed as the mininum requirement and I'm definietly feeling it since I usually am between 30-60 fps. There isn't anything else that I'm missing when it comes to the requirements, oh well I dont have a dedicated sound card but I doubt thats it.

The only question that remain is if I should upgrade at all. Would my 144hz screen justify the purchase? <<EDITED>>, I think that I'm going for it. Or am I?

Thanks a lot for the help, you made everything a lot clearer for me.

Understood, well the 3600X as stated above, will give you improved FPS lows, I found I had much smoother gameplay. I also run 144Hz with it.

I would also agree to get a 2x8GB 3200 kit and you'll see more improvement.

 

[execute_me]

Hi

Just buy the 3600 + some cheap but know brand kit of 2x8GB 320MHz DDR4RAM (you can find one for 65 bucks or less right now).

And the upgrade will be very important depending on what game titles you play (I believe this is a gaming PC considering your RTX card).

Most games from 2018 to today will see big impact on avg FPS, but specially the 1% low (don't believe me, there are many reviews out there: https://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/3489-amd-ryzen-5-3600-cpu-review-benchmarks-vs-intel; https://www.techspot.com/review/1871-amd-ryzen-3600/). Keep in mind that the diference will get smaller if you go with a higher in display resolution and refresh rate. But I do believe he 3600 should give you very smooth gameplay overall without a doubt.

In short, it all depends on your games, display resolution and refresh rate, a R5 3600 6c/12t vs a Core i5 4c/4t is an important step up.

Lastly as for motherboard a B450 with good VRM will be ok: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IVNyMatydkpFA/htmlview?sle=true#gid=639584818

I have an 1080p 180hz monitor. And yes I do know that an RTX 2070 mixed with an 1080p monitor is weird, but hey, futureproof? Does the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max have a good VRM? Exactly what difference does it make?

 

[execute_me]

Understood, well the 3600X as stated above, will give you improved FPS lows, I found I had much smoother gameplay. I also run 144Hz with it.

I would also agree to get a 2x8GB 3200 kit and you'll see more improvement.

Will it really give a good enough performence boost to justify the cost? I mean if I cant go with my full 16 GB I will buy new RAM but how necesarry is it? If my full 16GB kit works with the new motherboard I think I would go full out with 2x16 3200Mhz for about 150 USD since some games are reaching the 16GB recommended mark. I think I could fit that in with birthday money.

 

[PC Tailor]

In effect, poorer or too few VRMs can limit the capability of your components, namely your CPU. The VRMs job is to regulate voltage to your components, so poor regulation can mean either poor performance or outright damage.

The B450 Tomahawk MAX is perfectly fine for the 3600.

I've yet to encounter any games outside of beta (like Star Citizen) that will use more than 16GB. They will recommend it because the general consumer purchase is either 8GB, 16GB, or 32GB. So 16GB ensures that there is definitely enough, as 8GB doesn't always satisfy the need.

Unless you are running lots of background apps for example, then more RAM might be justified.

Will it really give a good enough performence boost to justify the cost?

Ultimately that's down to you, one thing for sure, it will be an improvement, your FPS lows will likely be much better, and your multitasking capability will improve.

You might notice in some games, almost no difference, in others you might see 20/30 FPS difference for example. I couldn't directly tell you as I never used the 6600K, so I can only go off theory.

This might indicate it a bit better, although I can't say much about the credibility of this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdaESf0_4uw

 

[execute_me]

In effect, poorer or too few VRMs can limit the capability of your components, namely your CPU. The VRMs job is to regulate voltage to your components, so poor regulation can mean either poor performance or outright damage.

The B450 Tomahawk MAX is perfectly fine for the 3600.

I've yet to encounter any games outside of beta (like Star Citizen) that will use more than 16GB. They will recommend it because the general consumer purchase is either 8GB, 16GB, or 32GB. So 16GB ensures that there is definitely enough, as 8GB doesn't always satisfy the need.

Unless you are running lots of background apps for example, then more RAM might be justified.


Ultimately that's down to you, one thing for sure, it will be an improvement, your FPS lows will likely be much better, and your multitasking capability will improve.

You might notice in some games, almost no difference, in others you might see 20/30 FPS difference for example. I couldn't directly tell you as I never used the 6600K, so I can only go off theory.

This might indicate it a bit better, although I can't say much about the credibility of this:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdaESf0_4uw

After checking trought some videos of the i5-6600K on BF games I'm confused. Most people got 60-100 fps, which I got nowhere near too. Some said they were also having performence issues in the comments. Too be fair most of the people playing had overclocked CPUs. My current CPU is usually at around 60 C while under load, and I think its max is 65 C, thermal throttle?

Still I think I'm pretty sure I'll buy the R5 3600 with the MSI B450 Tomahawk Max. What else am I going to spend my money on?

 

[PC Tailor]

and I think its max is 65 C, thermal throttle?

No, you're looking at TCase of 64 degrees, which is not the same as Tjunction (throttle temp).
Tcase is a factory only measurement at the Integrated Heat Spreader, and is not max core temperature. In fact, we can't judge Tcase as a consumer.

Generally for Intel as long as it's below 85 degrees, you're fine. Under 80 is ideal. You'd likely find like the i7 6th Gen the core throttle temp is closer to 100 degrees.

There is an excellent guide written by a mod on toms around intel temperature which is in depth but great reading if you want to learn more: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/

What else am I going to spend my money on?

The RAM up to 3200 is definitely a good purchase. There is a noticeable difference between slow RAM and high speed RAM in Ryzen systems.

 

[RodroX]

Don't trust too much on every single video on youtube. Mots of them don't even show when the settings close and they start the fight. Most of them you cant even be sure they have the cpu they claim to be testing with.

I know is not the same, I used to own a Core i5 3570 (a very awesome cpu!!!) + 8 GB DDR3 1600 (fastest RAM the CPU can handle) and a RTX 2070, and man, the game stuttered like hell when many npcs or players were on the screen. On the cutscenes followed by gameplay it used to freeze for like 2 seconds, and then keep going.

And the FPS never went higher than 50ish. 1% low were horrible.

The R5 3600 was night and day change.

 

[execute_me]

No, you're looking at TCase of 64 degrees, which is not the same as Tjunction (throttle temp).
Tcase is a factory only measurement at the Integrated Heat Spreader, and is not max core temperature. In fact, we can't judge Tcase as a consumer.

Generally for Intel as long as it's below 85 degrees, you're fine. Under 80 is ideal. You'd likely find like the i7 6th Gen the core throttle temp is closer to 100 degrees.

There is an excellent guide written by a mod on toms around intel temperature which is in depth but great reading if you want to learn more: https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/intel-temperature-guide.1488337/


The RAM up to 3200 is definitely a good purchase. There is a noticeable difference between slow RAM and high speed RAM in Ryzen systems.

So I decided not to buy the processor during the mini-sale, but now Black Friday is here.

It looks like I have 2 options. Either I try to find the R5 3600 as cheap as possible with the Tomahawk MAX, or I could buy an "Upgrade Pack" on komplett.se. The upgrade pack has the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Prosessor , ASUS ROG Strix B450-F Gaming and HyperX Fury DDR4 16GB 2666MHz (2x8GB). Now the ram isnt a whole lot quicker but it all is for about 410 USD, or about 4000 SEK.

There is also an upgrade pack with the Ryzen 3700x for 5290 SEK or about 550 USD. ( Other specs are the same) Now would this also be worth it? I'm not sure about this one doe since it might be out of my budget. The only reason I really have to get the R7 3700x instead of the R5 3600 would be longevity since it doesn't look like it will give me any significant increase in FPS currently, I do belive those extra cores and threads could be useful in the future?

Any thoughts?

 

[PC Tailor]

It could well be useful in the future, but you never really know where game development goes. Ultimately for now and for the foreseeable future, single core will still usually yield the best results in gaming, but game development is trying to utilise multiple cores in newer games. All in all, that's down to whether the extra 140USD is worth it for you.

As for the RAM, I'd still for Ryzen try and strive for at least 3000, as there are noticeable difference in the Ryzen 3000 lineup, in Intel, I'd say no worries, in Ryzen however, the faster RAM does pay off in most applications.

 

[ocer9999]

Smart choice: 3600 and the MSI B450 Max, you will have a good system for few years.